I'm glad so many people seem to like this game. I, for one, just finished the first case, and I think I'm going to put the game back on the shelf for a while. I played and enjoyed all the previous entries, and the repetition of the artwork and dialogue never really got to me, but this time... something snapped.
I really, really wish they had revamped the artwork and interface for the first DS-native outing. Those courtroom backgrounds have appeared in every case of every game, unchanged to the pixel. And I can't believe 99% of the game still takes place on the top screen, with the bottom screen being taken up by a huge arrow. This game would have been so much better with a Hotel Dusk-style presentation, with larger character drawings facing each other on the screens.
Huh, you're right. What jumped out at me was the lobby of the courtroom, which IS unchanged. Anyway, I meant I wanted something fresher, not just the same thing traced over.
almost had a heart attack when they found Lamiroir inside the bass case. That was one of the most shocking scenes in the series for me since at that moment it looked like such a sweet woman was killed just like that under the nose of everyone. I'm glad she was okay.
Huh, you're right. What jumped out at me was the lobby of the courtroom, which IS unchanged. Anyway, I meant I wanted something fresher, not just the same thing traced over.
Not sure what you mean by unchanged. It's still the same place after all so it's supposed to look like that (and every other court related location), but besides being completely redrawn there are differences like the new paiting (lol Judge), new pot, new plant, new (similar) sofa, and the ash tray is gone.
The guards always being identically on the same position was funny since the earlier games, Phoenix even joked about that sometimes in the Detention Center if you looked at the guard.
Wow... My mind is blown. I played for three hours and never even gave it a second thought; I just assumed they were the same. Now that I see they're not, I'm even more confused. Why would they redraw it like that but not change it at all??
Wow... My mind is blown. I played for three hours and never even gave it a second thought; I just assumed they were the same. Now that I see they're not, I'm even more confused. Why would they redraw it like that but not change it at all??
It's the same place. And the guards were probably just a reference to the previous games.
Zoc said:
I'm glad so many people seem to like this game. I, for one, just finished the first case, and I think I'm going to put the game back on the shelf for a while. I played and enjoyed all the previous entries, and the repetition of the artwork and dialogue never really got to me, but this time... something snapped.
I really, really wish they had revamped the artwork and interface for the first DS-native outing. Those courtroom backgrounds have appeared in every case of every game, unchanged to the pixel. And I can't believe 99% of the game still takes place on the top screen, with the bottom screen being taken up by a huge arrow. This game would have been so much better with a Hotel Dusk-style presentation, with larger character drawings facing each other on the screens.
I agree, the previous games had the bottom screen unused because they were previously GBA games, but they seem to have gotten lazy with this one. It's almost like it could be a GBA game, and the extra features were used sparingly.
You should still play this one though, if only for Case 4,
though admittedly the ending felt way too easy
The next Apollo Justice games should do a number of things:
1) Delete the penalty system
2) Use inspection of evidence a lot more
3) Have a dual-screen presentation with more lively character sprites
4) Make the investigation faster, and put outlines around stuff like Metroid Prime 2/3
Wow... My mind is blown. I played for three hours and never even gave it a second thought; I just assumed they were the same. Now that I see they're not, I'm even more confused. Why would they redraw it like that but not change it at all??
I don't blame you. They are all pretty similar. Actually, inside the courtroom has changed quite a bit, especially the witness/defendant stand. The best thing about redrawing them is that they don't have that annoying low quality pixelated look. Phoenix Wright 1~3 courtroom background had these terrible yellow dots all over.
almost had a heart attack when they found Lamiroir inside the bass case. That was one of the most shocking scenes in the series for me since at that moment it looked like such a sweet woman was killed just like that under the nose of everyone. I'm glad she was okay.
I just finished the second case and so far I like it, but I'm not feeling it as much as the previous two games. I think part of that is that so far I enjoy the characters in the previous three games more. I do like Trucy, but that's about it. I don't hate the other characters, I just feel "blah" about them, even Phoenix himself. I mean, some of the parts of the first trial were great, but everything else so far feels lacking. I think another missing ingredient is the prosecutor. Most of these things have been mentioned in the thread, so I'm not really contributing new material, just thought I'd throw my two cents in.
Finished the game after a marathon six or seven hour session through Case 4 last night. My thoughts:
Case 1: Best first case in the series, and I loved 3-1. The twist was great, and the setup for things to come was handled extremely well.
Case 2: A very solid case, with some excellent characters
Eldoon with his harmonica, the return of Ema, and Wesley the perv :lol
and a pretty good flow overall. I wouldn't say it was the best second case in the series just because it didn't really deal with the main cast like the other games, so there just wasn't as much impact.
Case 3: Best third case in the series. I found the use of the
mixing board
to be one of the best implementation of the DS mechanics, and the
video was gorgeous
. I was slightly disappointed that
the Daryan didn't actually confess and spill the beans on what actually happened, and how Apollo had no objections to how a tiny "blind" 15 year old managed to take down a giant trained Interpol agent that the prosecution suggests.
Bit more of a wrap up would have been nice as well, but oh well that's nitpicking.
Case 4: Arguably the most ambitious case of the series (although 3-5 gave it a run for its money), but not the best.
I don't fully understand the MASON system. If Phoenix can give his intepretation of the truth to show to the jury, what about the prosecution? This jurist system seems kind of flawed IMO. I do like the epicness of Phoenix needing 7 years to piece together enough information to build a case to truly take down Kristoph. Speaking of which, I really want to see more of Kristoph as a character. He has a lot of potential as a supervillain (his animation with the opaque glasses is just awesome), and I was really looking forward to breaking down those unbreakable psycho-locks.
All in all, I really liked the case, but there are an awful lot of unanswered questions that I never really got at the end of most Ace Attorney games. Bit of a weak conclusion.
Other things: the character artstyle and the visuals from a technical standpoint are much improved, the soundtrack is the best it has been since the first game. Perceive system's pretty rewarding (I really like Apollo's GOTCHA!), the DS mechanics are pretty interesting (wish they actually let you present portraits and use forensic tools on your own though), and the cast of new characters are great with a different feeling dynamic than Phoenix/Maya/Gumshoe. Good stuff.
My current ranking for the games would be AA3 > AA4 > AA1 (I find people tending to overrate it, as a lot of the cases are super simple in comparison) > AA2, with 2-4 still being my favorite case.
I finished the game just a couple hours ago and I have to say, Case 4 was epic, just like all other final cases in the previous games. I really liked Apollo Justice, but not as much as the Phoenix Wright games. That doesn't mean I didn't love the game, though--and oh, did I love it. It was awesome. It's just that sometimes it felt a bit weak in areas, like with Gavin...he's not very...I dunno...something.
Did anyone else think the game was easier than the previous ones? It only took me around a weekend to beat it whereas the other games took me around half a month each. Maybe I'm just getting better.
I finished the game just a couple hours ago and I have to say, Case 4 was epic, just like all other final cases in the previous games. I really liked Apollo Justice, but not as much as the Phoenix Wright games. That doesn't mean I didn't love the game, though--and oh, did I love it. It was awesome. It's just that sometimes it felt a bit weak in areas, like with Gavin...he's not very...I dunno...something.
If anything I expect to see more of Kristoph Gavin in the later games.
He or his master plan will find its way to the main forefront kind of like Morgan Fey in AA2 and AA3. Remember that you still haven't went against his dark psyche locks in Case 4. I think there is much more than meets the eye and he will likely play an even bigger role like Morgan Fey and her two daughters, that was never even implied in AA2 that was a huge role in AA3.
If anything I expect to see more of Klavier Gavin in the later games.
He or his master plan will find its way to the main forefront kind of like Morgan Fey in AA2 and AA3. Remember that you still haven't went against his dark psyche locks in Case 4. I think there is much more than meets the eye and he will likely play an even bigger role like Morgan Fey and her two daughters, that was never even implied in AA2 that was a huge role in AA3.
I actually meant Klavier Gavin. He just doesn't have that "oomph" that previous prosecutors had. At least, not with me. I don't even like him; but I don't hate him, either. He's just...there. But now that you brought up Kristoph, I too figured his plan would be realized later, of course. And those black Psyche-Locks made me even more anxious...I like Kristoph. He rocks Cold and calculating with a veil of short-lasting kindness...
I actually meant Klavier Gavin. He just doesn't have that "oomph" that previous prosecutors had. At least, not with me. I don't even like him; but I don't hate him, either. He's just...there. But now that you brought up Kristoph, I too figured his plan would be realized later, of course. And those black Psyche-Locks made me even more anxious...I like Kristoph. He rocks Cold and calculating with a veil of short-lasting kindness...
Phoenix Wright a prosecutor. He already has a thing for forging evidence in AA4, so he would be perfect to be in the prosecutors office. Not to mention that he would make an awesome final "boss" battle, before Apollo really makes the series his own, instead of being in Phoenix's footsteps.
Also,
Klavier was implicated at the end of the trial because he knew that evidence was forged and was told about it, in Case 4 there it was implied that there were consequences for admitting it in a court of law. I think if Klavier makes an appearance in AA5, he will be a different man
I actually meant Klavier Gavin. He just doesn't have that "oomph" that previous prosecutors had. At least, not with me. I don't even like him; but I don't hate him, either. He's just...there. But now that you brought up Kristoph, I too figured his plan would be realized later, of course. And those black Psyche-Locks made me even more anxious...I like Kristoph. He rocks Cold and calculating with a veil of short-lasting kindness...
I did think of Klavier as a sort of refreshing change from the typical AA prosecutors where their goals began and ended at screwing over Phoenix, Edgeworth notwithstanding. But his likable personality admittedly did detract from the trial's tension. Hell, the moment where I was expecting Klavier to fight to his last (when Kristoph was on the stand in Case 4-4), he was still helping Apollo along the way in his "lolz I know (almost) everything but let me cryptically guide you to the truth" attitude. Then I realized; unless its Edgeworth, I don't really want a likable prosecutor from the get-go.
Anyway, beat the game, and my impressions aren't too much different than the majority posted here.
I did not notice any real plotholes in the case, but the Mason System seems to be a pretty damned biased way to sway the jury. Additionally, there was a huge disconnect between what the player knows and what Apollo knows in the final stage of Case 4. It was like the Case just sputtered out of gas just moments before it crossed the true climax. The Trucy + Apollo = Siblings via Case 3 Singer was an interesting twist. But again, AJ could have definitely used a Case 5 to really solidify things.
And as for AJ's "villian"...
Kristoph needs to come back. Not only did he withhold information to the very end and there was pretty much nothing decisive linking Kristoph to the crimes and the events 7 years ago as Apollo, Klaiver, and Phoenix would paint it, his Super Psyche-Locks were never broken. It seems like he knows a lot more behind the events of everything than he initially let on (Not to mention, the reason why Drew's rough sketches depicted all of Apollo's cases was never even remotely hinted upon). Additionally, Phoenix noted that not only where his Black Super Psyche-Locks filled with coldness, they were also filled with despair. Why would somebody, seemingly as mad as Kristoph, have anything truly to despair about? And there's also the teacher of the magicians alluding to some pretty... shady practices in the past. That, and he's just a pretty damn good villain that I would love to see closure brought to.
Does anyone else catch the part of the ending where
Phoenix's rather cryptic remarks about him being the only one that understands what's going on with Trucy (then shows the only crying animation of her in the game)? I have a sneaking suspicion that there was more on the line in that poker game at the Borscht Bowl than revealed thus far. Maybe one that involved playing for who Trucy ends up with. Otherwise, I can't really think of why Zak would get so upset and violent about losing a poker game. (he lost before to Phoenix anyways right?)
Does anyone else catch the part of the ending where
Phoenix's rather cryptic remarks about him being the only one that understands what's going on with Trucy (then shows the only crying animation of her in the game)?
1. Trucy is sad that her father ended up getting killed before he came back to see her, as he promised. 2. Trucy is sad that Zak's actions pretty much instigated nearly everything that happened from Phoenix's last case up to Case 4-4. As for Zak getting into it with with Olga, you're probably on to something, especially since Olga reported that Phoenix actually tried to wrestle Zak's pendant off of him. Or Zak is just way too much into poker (serious business) and was pretty pissed when his attempt to screw Phoenix failed. All other indications in the game point towards Zak not being the highest person in character.
1. Trucy is sad that her father ended up getting killed before he came back to see her, as he promised. 2. Trucy is sad that Zak's actions pretty much instigated nearly everything that happened from Phoenix's last case up to Case 4-4.
but doesn't Apollo know all of that as well? Phoenix's remarks means that he and he alone is still hiding something from Apollo and the jurist system, something that happened between Shadi and him, most likely concerning Trucy.
Just finished 2 case so far and not feeling this game so far. I don't know maybe Capcom should've just went with a whole new cast instead of me always hearing about what happened 7 years ago. Hopefully it picks up, oh and I don't like the new prosecuter so far.
but doesn't Apollo know all of that as well? Phoenix's remarks means that he and he alone is still hiding something from Apollo and the jurist system, something that happened between Shadi and him, most likely concerning Trucy.
That issue actually underlines one of my main criticisms with Case 4-4.
In the end, we know that Apollo knew that Zak = Shadi Smith. What we don't know is if Apollo knows Trucy's real perceptions about her real father or how much Apollo really knows about the past events displayed in the Mason System concerning Zak's disappearance and interaction with Trucy (All we really can infer from is a single line saying that "Phoenix told Apollo about some stuff"). But yeah, you're correct when saying that there does seem to be something else that went down beyond what the Mason System told us (Phoenix wouldn't forcibly attempt to take Zak's pendant for no real reason, nor would he loot it from Zak's body for no reason either).
"How Trucy really feels" could be due to a myriad of reasons, but I still think it's more contributed to the kind of person Zak was really sinking in for the first time. That, and Kristoph seems to allude that something big went down concerning Zak that not even Phoenix really knows about
He is just kind of a dick, really. Recall what Brushel said about mentioning Zak's wife to him and getting punched half a dozen times. Zak is prone to fits of anger. As for why he wanted to screw Phoenix in the first place...I've wondered that myself. A possible reason could be that he was annoyed that Phoenix was using Trucy for Poker games, but he planned screwing him long before he got there and found that out. We still don't know why he needed to ruin Phoenix's life.
Just finished PW3: T&T a little while ago. I'm a bit too burned out, so I won't be starting up the fourth right away. The third was a surprisingly long game, so I'm going to take a break from Ace Attorney and probably move onto Dr. Layton next.
But I did start case 1 of the new game, just to see if there's any relation between this series and the next, and clearly there is.
However, considering how PW3 ended...
It's clear that Phoenix Wright returns in some supporting role, as he's the defendant in the first case.
Is it ever explained why he leaves the practice?
When in the intervening 7 years he quit?
Are Maya and Pearls done, then?
Do we find out what happened to them, or is the Kurain Tradition and the Fey family now irrelevant?
What about Iris Fey, she was left as a possible PW love interest, wasn't she?
I don't have it in me to play through another four cases right now, but these questions are eating me up!
Just finished PW3: T&T a little while ago. I'm a bit too burned out, so I won't be starting up the fourth right away. The third was a surprisingly long game, so I'm going to take a break from Ace Attorney and probably move onto Dr. Layton next.
But I did start case 1 of the new game, just to see if there's any relation between this series and the next, and clearly there is.
However, considering how PW3 ended...
It's clear that Phoenix Wright returns in some supporting role, as he's the defendant in the first case.
Is it ever explained why he leaves the practice?
When in the intervening 7 years he quit?
Are Maya and Pearls done, then?
Do we find out what happened to them, or is the Kurain Tradition and the Fey family now irrelevant?
What about Iris Fey, she was left as a possible PW love interest, wasn't she?
I don't have it in me to play through another four cases right now, but these questions are eating me up!
Did anyone else think the game was easier than the previous ones? It only took me around a weekend to beat it whereas the other games took me around half a month each. Maybe I'm just getting better.
It's clear that Phoenix Wright returns in some supporting role, as he's the defendant in the first case.
Is it ever explained why he leaves the practice?
When in the intervening 7 years he quit?
Are Maya and Pearls done, then?
Do we find out what happened to them, or is the Kurain Tradition and the Fey family now irrelevant?
What about Iris Fey, she was left as a possible PW love interest, wasn't she?
It's clear that Phoenix Wright returns in some supporting role, as he's the defendant in the first case.
Is it ever explained why he leaves the practice? Yes.
Are Maya and Pearls done, then? Yes.
Do we find out what happened to them? No.
I finished the game today. ZOMG :O Case 4 was fucking fantastic!
Hcoregamer00 said:
He or his master plan will find its way to the main forefront kind of like Morgan Fey in AA2 and AA3. Remember that you still haven't went against his dark psyche locks in Case 4. I think there is much more than meets the eye and he will likely play an even bigger role like Morgan Fey and her two daughters, that was never even implied in AA2 that was a huge role in AA3.
Because it was a convenient way to throw a twist in the story, when you learned who Shadi was later. I don't believe for one second that all this deep speculation on his reasons were intended by Capcom. They simply didn't work out the finer details on this one.
I just beat it and I liked this one a lot. I liked the (mostly) lack of supernatural stuff. Not because I got annoyed by all the Fey family stuff in the PW trilogy, but because if they'd gone that route again it would've been boring. Anyway, I'm hoping next time around there's more forensics to do and the freedom to do them as you please.
I think I had a different expectation when people said the game was more about Phoenix than Apollo, too.
I thought they meant that Phoenix was going to provide the annoying deus ex machina that Mia Fey provides in the first AA game.
He only really dominated cases 1 and 4 if you ask me, and those two cases were related. I was fine with the game going into PW's past because it provided some sense of closure. The only thing is, I really wonder how they're going to add any wrinkles to the Apollo and Trucy relationship without making it full of annoying dramatic irony.
Just finished this game yesterday. Overall, I find this new game very good. I really like the
perceive
skill, which is much better than the "psyche lock" thing. I was a little bit stumped on the Case 4, and need to download FAQ to solve it. Overall, I think this game is a little bit less than AA3, but better than AA1 & AA2. I agree that the prosecutor is not as "crazy" as AA1 and AA2, but I believe it is an improvement, since this game seem more "real life" like, unlike AA1 - AA3, which feel more "Cartoon" like.
I've been playing through this the last few days and I've got the Ace Attorney bite all over again. Got a question though. I'm in the last episode of PW:2. I have PW:3 unopened, but I couldn't resist playing through these first episode and a bit of Apollo Justice. I get that (spoilers from the whole series I guess)
Something happens at the end of the third game to make Phoenix retire from law
. Other than that, are there any other major things that are going to be "spoiled" for me? I don't really play these games for the story, but I don't want to have a character drop in and tell me, say, how another case in another game was solved.
I just beat PW3 yesterday, and there was nothing there that indicated that he'd be giving up the law. Just the opposite, actually. Which is why the beginning of case 1 of Apollo Justice kind of rankled.
They pretty much ignore most of PW2 and 3, aside from a few little things. I'd still want to finish the PW trilogy just for all the closure you get from it, but the explanation for what changed in Phoenix's life comes up in case 4 of this game.
I just beat PW3 yesterday, and there was nothing there that indicated that he'd be giving up the law. Just the opposite, actually. Which is why the beginning of case 1 of Apollo Justice kind of rankled.
They pretty much ignore most of PW2 and 3, aside from a few little things. I'd still want to finish the PW trilogy just for all the closure you get from it, but the explanation for what changed in Phoenix's life comes up in case 4 of this game.
Ahh, I see. That makes sense. I've caught references to the first game already (that doctor...thing with the odd mouth, the "cloth in the exhaust" helping PW in PW1, etc) so if they tend to stick to that game I should be OK.
I just beat PW3 yesterday, and there was nothing there that indicated that he'd be giving up the law. Just the opposite, actually. Which is why the beginning of case 1 of Apollo Justice kind of rankled.
Because it was a convenient way to throw a twist in the story, when you learned who Shadi was later. I don't believe for one second that all this deep speculation on his reasons were intended by Capcom. They simply didn't work out the finer details on this one.
...but I would have said the same thing at the end of PW1 with all the dangling plot holes. I really do think they'll hook a lot of this in to the next few games.
I thought it was a great follow-up, until the ending.
Seeing Gumshoe again = awesome, but playing as Phoenix without Maya felt... wrong, and you never find out what happened to her (and Iris), which I thought would be a focal point of the "events of seven years ago".
But after the initial disappointment with the ending, the other cases were all probably better than cases 1-3 for PW1-3, especially the first one.
Another question:
How did Valant not recognize Thalassa when he was working at the concert?
How did we know that he didn't know that Lamoire is Thalassa? For all we know, he did this concert for the sole purpose of meeting her again, only to find out that she is blind and has no memory of the past
Well, she does look completely different under all of the veils. It could be that her voice has also changed since he last saw her.
Hcoregamer00 said:
Here is my question in rebuttal to yours
How did we know that he didn't know that Lamoire is Thalassa? For all we know, he did this concert for the sole purpose of meeting her again, only to find out that she is blind and has no memory of the past
I wouldn't necessarily say "undone," future games could easily shed more light on what happened to the rest of the cast. If anything, a lot of stuff is simply "unsaid."
How did we know that he didn't know that Lamoire is Thalassa? For all we know, he did this concert for the sole purpose of meeting her again, only to find out that she is blind and has no memory of the past
How did we know that he didn't know that Lamoire is Thalassa? For all we know, he did this concert for the sole purpose of meeting her again, only to find out that she is blind and has no memory of the past
