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[Keihart]

So, hear me out...i was thinking on why i usually feel more immersed in games that are third person, i actually feel more like the character than when in first person and i came up with a theory.

Have you heard of Proprioception or kinaesthesia ? it's the sense or awareness of our bodies, for example, how big we are, where are our limbs, etc...i think that the third person perspective can convey this easier because if you see the character you know where he is stepping, in which position and so on....but in first person, unless you are playing VR, all these things that we usually don't even have to think about to know become very hard to convey from the game to the player because, you are almost like a hovering head with arms and you can't turn unless you turn your whole torso, it's pretty weird tbh, unless you are playing VR which has it's own problems like tracking your lower half and locomotion, but anyhow, all of this is solved in third person perspective...

Does this makes sense to you or i am talking nonsense?

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

Most of your points about the third person, I agree with, but I feel like certain first person games in 2D screens can be immersive if done right. Certain games that I can think of that fit the bill are BioShock, ZombiU, because in these first-person games, the atmosphere is a character in and of itself (you can go as far as to say the atmoshpere is the main character) . That's where most of the immersion for me comes from, taking in and absorbing the atmosphere in those games.

Have you tried VR? Because even without tacking the lower half and locomotion, it does feel pretty immersive, for me at least. For the HTC Vive, there are sensors you can buy that track the legs, but as very few software supports it as of now, it's pretty much not worth investing in (unless you're a really hardcore VRchat fan).

 

[ThatStupidLion]

I’ll agree

 

[Portugeezer]

I have a 2D screen. I prefer 3rd person also.

 

[Belmonte]

Interesting. Discussing this issue with my friends I always told that our vision is first person but our senses are third. Like, without looking, we know exactly how our bodies are disposed. Didn't know the name of this was Proprioception.

But first person games which go the extra mile, showing legs and feet, with natural movement of hands and arms can diminish the feeling of "camera floating with a gun"

 

[Keihart]

Most of your points about the third person, I agree with, but I feel like certain first person games in 2D screens can be immersive if done right. Certain games that I can think of that fit the bill are BioShock, ZombiU, because in these first-person games, the atmosphere is a character in and of itself (you can go as far as to say the atmoshpere is the main character) . That's where most of the immersion for me comes from, taking in and absorbing the atmosphere in those games.

Have you tried VR? Because even without tacking the lower half and locomotion, it does feel pretty immersive, for me at least. For the HTC Vive, there are sensors you can buy that track the legs, but as very few software supports it as of now, it's pretty much not worth investing in (unless you're a really hardcore VRchat fan).

Yeah i have, i have an Oculus rift with 3 sensors and the touch controllers setup, it really transforms what a game in first person is in IMHO.
I'm not saying that first person isn't immersive at all, i'm just saying that i ususally find third person more immersive and my theory. I mean, i think it explains a lot, right?

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

I agree OP, most iconic gaming characters, that talk a lot and have a personality are presented in 3rd person usually, Save like Master Chief and Doom guy and Bioshock guy, and I guess Gordon ?? Gecko? the HL2 guy. First person characters aren't that memorable ( hence me not remembering much of their names)

Where as we all know who Nathan Drake is, how he talks, cracks jokes, winks, laughs and smiles etc...As you make him run from cover to cover and scale walls and cliffs. We also know Solid Snake, how he flinches, and grunts when he is in physical pain, we know how cool and calm and collected Leon S. Kennedy gets before winding up for a round house kick to a zombie's chest, We know Lara croft, how her beautiful boobies bounce and her butt perks up when she jumps on a ledge etc. and how dirty and sweaty her face and tank top gets fighting tigers and baddie in the jungle.

You can almost feel the cool breeze hitting Agent 47's barcode tattoo at the back of his bald neck before you approach an unsuspecting guard and strangle him from behind etc. etc. You can almost feel the blood from your legs dripping as your player character Franklin runs away from cops and leaves a trail of blood on Cali's (San Andreas' ) dry deserty hills.

None of the stuff described in the above paragraph is possible while playing first person characters.

All these VISUALS, make us associate with the characters we play in a more psychically manner and thus, I believe why we get more invested and immersed in 3rd person characters.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

This is one reason I've always liked third-person open world games from Grand Theft Auto III to Sleeping Dogs, actually seeing the player character enveloped in a large, open-ended game world with their unique atmospheres and ambient sounds. Traditional survival horror like Resident Evil and Parasite Eve also utilize a third-person perspective albeit not the same way but I still feel that I'm more immersed with characters like Leon and Aya because I can see the person I'm controlling on-screen.

Most modern first-person games are unusual in that the player character's arms and weapon don't react to the immediate environment. For example, if you get close to a wall or a dead body in Battlefield 3, you appear to shrink while whatever is in front of you gets bigger. Deus Ex: Human Revolution didn't have this issue thankfully.

 

[Dr.brain64]

1st person persp on PC.
3rd person persp on consoles.

Period. I cannot do otherwise.

 

[thief183]

Ehm... no. First person is miles haed in immersion.

 

[FeldMonster]

I agree OP, most iconic gaming characters, that talk a lot and have a personality are presented in 3rd person usually, Save like Master Chief and Doom guy and Bioshock guy, and I guess Gordon ?? Gecko? the HL2 guy. First person characters aren't that memorable ( hence me not remembering much of their names)

Where as we all know who Nathan Drake is, how he talks, cracks jokes, winks, laughs and smiles etc...As you make him run from cover to cover and scale walls and cliffs. We also know Solid Snake, how he flinches, and grunts when he is in physical pain, we know how cool and calm and collected Leon S. Kennedy gets before winding up for a round house kick to a zombie's chest, We know Lara croft, how her beautiful boobies bounce and her butt perks up when she jumps on a ledge etc. and how dirty and sweaty her face and tank top gets fighting tigers and baddie in the jungle.

You can almost feel the cool breeze hitting Agent 47's barcode tattoo at the back of his bald neck before you approach an unsuspecting guard and strangle him from behind etc. etc. You can almost feel the blood from your legs dripping as your player character Franklin runs away from cops and leaves a trail of blood on Cali's (San Andreas' ) dry deserty hills.

None of the stuff described in the above paragraph is possible while playing first person characters.

All these VISUALS, make us associate with the characters we play in a more psychically manner and thus, I believe why we get more invested and immersed in 3rd person characters.

Knowing a character well is not the same as immersion. You can be more invested in the character's fate from a story point of view, but you can't feel like you are a character even a fraction as well when in 3rd person.

 

[EekTheKat]

The perspective in first person perspective games are often (intentionally) "wrong" or incorrect - in a sense that your eyes are at about chest level in quite a few games. So to some extent first person games can be fairly immersion breaking.

IIRC, it was cited the reason for this was for the sake of gameplay, as the perspective would look/feel weird in a proper FPV during gameplay.

 

[Danjin44]

My take is I love good animation and thats why I prefer third person camera in my games.

 

[bitbydeath]

Ehm... no. First person is miles haed in immersion.

Go on....

 

[The Cockatrice]

I never got scared in any third person game but playing first person ones does make me tense so In a sense FP is more immersive in this genre and most likely in other ones but not really a set in stone thing. It depends on the game. I can easily get myself immersed in Mass Effect but Call of Duty does nothing to me.

 

[bitbydeath]

I never got scared in any third person game but playing first person ones does make me tense so In a sense FP is more immersive in this genre and most likely in other ones but not really a set in stone thing. It depends on the game. I can easily get myself immersed in Mass Effect but Call of Duty does nothing to me.

Aren’t all the best horror games in third person like Silent Hill?

 

[The Cockatrice]

Aren’t all the best horror games in third person like Silent Hill?

Not to me. The best horror games are Alien Isolation, Amnesia, etc. Even Silent Hill 4 the small parts when it was FP was scarier than when it switched to third.

 

[Belmonte]

I agree OP, most iconic gaming characters, that talk a lot and have a personality are presented in 3rd person usually, Save like Master Chief and Doom guy and Bioshock guy, and I guess Gordon ?? Gecko? the HL2 guy. First person characters aren't that memorable ( hence me not remembering much of their names)

Where as we all know who Nathan Drake is, how he talks, cracks jokes, winks, laughs and smiles etc...As you make him run from cover to cover and scale walls and cliffs. We also know Solid Snake, how he flinches, and grunts when he is in physical pain, we know how cool and calm and collected Leon S. Kennedy gets before winding up for a round house kick to a zombie's chest, We know Lara croft, how her beautiful boobies bounce and her butt perks up when she jumps on a ledge etc. and how dirty and sweaty her face and tank top gets fighting tigers and baddie in the jungle.

You can almost feel the cool breeze hitting Agent 47's barcode tattoo at the back of his bald neck before you approach an unsuspecting guard and strangle him from behind etc. etc. You can almost feel the blood from your legs dripping as your player character Franklin runs away from cops and leaves a trail of blood on Cali's (San Andreas' ) dry deserty hills.

None of the stuff described in the above paragraph is possible while playing first person characters.

All these VISUALS, make us associate with the characters we play in a more psychically manner and thus, I believe why we get more invested and immersed in 3rd person characters.

Yeah, there are some respectable arguments pro first person immersion but it is very hard to argue about how much more third person can convey about the character.

First example that crosses my mind is Wander, from Shadow of the Colossus. His animations conveys a lot of his bravery and struggle. That shit wasn't easy for him and each move demanded a lot which is linked perfectly with the main theme of the game. Spoiler: His face showing the lingering corruption was genius.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Totally agree.

The lack of spatial awareness, presence, visual feedback and particularly peripheral vision in first person games is a constant reminder that I'm piloting a floating camera, and almost never lets me feel like I'm truly giving agency to a person in that world in the same way a third person perspective can.

There are exceptions of course. Fallout 3 and New Vegas spring instantly to mind, but I've been far more drawn in and immersed in the ficrion presented with third person titles, everything from the PS1 days to Spiderman, God of War and Days Gone wouldn't be half as believable to me without getting to actually see the protagonist interacting with the world around them and conveying those subtle reactions, movements and emotions we all do as we go about our lives.

VR is a whole other level though. VR Skyrim is just the nost immersive thing ever.

 

[INC]

Play resident evil 7 in VR and say third person is more immersive

 

[lyan]

Play resident evil 7 in VR and say third person is more immersive

funny how you are the 3rd person who mention vr in this thread after OP

 

[eot]

Does this makes sense to you or i am talking nonsense?

Why did you space the emojis unevenly?

 

[INC]

funny how you are the 3rd person who mention vr in this thread after OP

I guess in 2d it's different, so can't really count VR

 

[rofif]

I think I know the reason why. It's the same reason I prefer driving in 3rd person on a monitor.
When You drive Your own car in real life, You can "feel" the size and borders of the car. You know what wheel is where and what is under Your car. It's almost like if You see all Your car around. You also look around with head and with eyes giving You very high peripheral vision and awarness.
1st person driving and shooters are limiting Your fov. You don't know here rest of Your car/body is since you don't feel it. 3rd person replaces it with actually seeing Your car/legs and giving You more realistic, bigger fov

 

[The_Mike]

Maybe my fantasy is better than most people on Gaf, but I really feel I'm there in fp VS tp. I've never really enjoyed tp over fp, but I also mostly play shooting games.

I don't want to play gears 5, tomb raider or wow as a first person games, but neither do I want to play call of duty in third person.

 

[Tesseract]

do not agree at all, not even sure what you are arguing for here

 

[Barnabot]

Well I play Ace Combat games in chase cam. Racing games using a wheel and chase cam. Dislike 1st Person Shooter for the majority. Skipped playing Resident Evil 7 for being 1st Person only. So there's that.

Come at me you racing game purists with your cockpit view camera.

 

[EightBit Man]

The most immersive titles I have played were first-person: Mirror's Edge, the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, the Elder Scrolls and 3D Fallout games, Hidden & Dangerous 1 and 2, and the early 3D FPS-es from DOOM onward. So, suffice to say, I don't agree, even when a game allows both perspectives to be used.

 

[Shifty]

I prefer third-person in general, but I still think first-person is more immersive.

 

[JohnSpartanLee]

I agree 100%.

Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Zelda are the most immersive (non-VR) games to me.

 

[VertigoOA]

Not at all.

So many comparison first and third person action games lately.

At times you see people clamoring for swappable perspectives on the fly like how a Bethesda rpg or Battlefront allows you to do so... with the assumption being that it would play the same despite perspectives. That of course is fiction as a third person game will rarely give you the precision you need vs first.

And in the instance of an rpg that gives you the option, it’s far easier to investigate and explore an environment in first-person. Third-person can often provide a larger fov with the such a swap but it’s inferior when looking for, let’s say... items scattered on a table for instance.

I can understand wanting to see your game character ... but I’m at the point where I’d prefer play every action game in first-person unless it’s gameplay is driven by melee combat.

With that said, games featuring both... please stop. It hurts the game

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

Not to me. The best horror games are Alien Isolation, Amnesia, etc. Even Silent Hill 4 the small parts when it was FP was scarier than when it switched to third.

In the first-person view moments of Silent Hill 4, you're very slowly and deliberately walking through your apartment and nothing scary happens (unless you're only talking about the intro dream sequence). Coming across a twin victim in the water prison level or the giant head of Eileen in the hospital was scary. Hitting a ghost with a melee weapon and watching it fall to the ground only for it to get back up every time and continue chasing you was scary. First-person in Silent Hill 4 was more of a distraction, a reprieve from the horror.

 

[thief183]

Go on....

Yea sorry I was on mobile and "reserved the spot"

So in my opinion in first person view you can actually build a realistic environment without the costraint of the camera (for the example the way too high roof in any 3rd person view game (I don't dislike 3rd person view games, we are speacking about immersion)) and for some reason I find the building inconsistency really jarring.

I can understand the lack of feeling of for example cold temperature, but if we are talking about well made fps look at metro, it sure doesn't lack these sensations. In real life I can "feel" cold even with my eyes, just looking at the enviroment around me, I don't need to see my hair moving or whatever effect they can add.

Other examples are the camera at the corners, I hate when in 3rd person games I can watch on the other side of the wall, it is totally immersion breacking, it can be usefull and in some case even part of the gameplay experiance, but still it destroys the immersion.

Btw, for the immersion I must be able to see my legs and body looking down and see a reflection on myself when needed.

There are other examples but I think I made the idea on what I was referring to.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I've never felt like "I'm there." in a 3rd person game. Felt that way plenty of times in 1st person games. 3rd person I'm the puppetmaster. 1st person, I'm the puppet.

 

[the Guynecologist]

Does this makes sense to you or i am talking nonsense?

You're talking nonsense. Try playing the first two Thief games (Dark Project and The Metal Age) and then play the third game (Deadly Shadows) in 3rd person mode and then we'll talk.

 

[Rest]

If I have a choice between third person and first person, I'll choose third person almost every time. There are only a few exceptions, like Ace Combat, where I like the cockpit view enough to allow first person, and The Elder Scrolls, where the character animations are bad enough that they can be distracting.

 

[Keihart]

You're talking nonsense. Try playing the first two Thief games (Dark Project and The Metal Age) and then play the third game (Deadly Shadows) in 3rd person mode and then we'll talk.

Did i say somewhere taht all third person games are immersive and first person games aren't? My hypotesis is in why third person games can be more immersive to me and my stupid theory about Proprioception or kinaesthesia. I mean, how do you even account for body positional awareness in a first person game, are there games that do this in other ways?
I know that VR solve this and that's one of the reasons i like it so much.
jeez why so defensive, i just wanted to open the discussion about this topic that i don't see much talk about, and in retrospective it might be one of the main reasons of why melee combat in first person sucks unless you make some huge hit boxes and magnet like punches.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

Camera perspective does not impact my ability to immerse my self in a world whatsoever, any more than a movie being non-interactive stops me from immersing myself in it. I find this entire discussion weird and non-sensical to be honest.

 

[Coflash]

Go on....

This did it for me in a big way. First person:

Spoiler

vs third person:

Spoiler

Plus in any game that offers first + third person, you can always see and appreciate the details of the world better in first person (RDR2 on PC being a recent example)

 

[Shifty]

I mean, how do you even account for body positional awareness in a first person game, are there games that do this in other ways?
I know that VR solve this and that's one of the reasons i like it so much.

VR accounts for your positional awareness because (some of) your limbs are represented 1 : 1 with their positions in real life, including your head. First person is just a lower-order facsimile of the latter part.

Third-person games account for the 'positional awareness' of the character you're controlling, but they don't account for -you-, the player.
Simply being able to see a character, and thus register them as 'not me', breaks the type of immersion that comes with being able to see directly into the game world through a pair of eyes, rather than a floating camera.

There are of course other kinds of immersion, like being immersed in a world, story or specific situation a game is portraying. It's quite a broad umbrella, since the medium itself is also broad.

 

[the Guynecologist]

Did i say somewhere taht all third person games are immersive and first person games aren't? My hypotesis is in why third person games can be more immersive to me and my stupid theory about Proprioception or kinaesthesia. I mean, how do you even account for body positional awareness in a first person game, are there games that do this in other ways?
I know that VR solve this and that's one of the reasons i like it so much.
jeez why so defensive, i just wanted to open the discussion about this topic that i don't see much talk about, and in retrospective it might be one of the main reasons of why melee combat in first person sucks unless you make some huge hit boxes and magnet like punches.

I'll agree with you on melee combat. The lack of depth perception makes it hard to tell where your hits are landing. And it all depends on what kind of game and which perspective works best for the gameplay. But a really well-designed first person game puts you directly in the shoes of the protagonist whereas with third person there's a barrier between you and the world.

The reason why I cited the original Thief games was because the sound design in those games are essential. The soundscape is 3 dimensional and you can tell which direction an incoming enemy is coming from down to the exact trajectory which they're travelling at. Shit, you can even hear what surface they're walking on. You translate that to 3rd person and it just doesn't work - especially if you can move the camera around.

 

[bilderberg]

Games are just bad at using a first person camera. Old starbreeze with Riddick and The Darkness nailed first person. Both those games are very immersive.

 

[Punished Miku]

First person is actively worse in almost every game. I skip tons of games if it's first person. No first person game will even hardly put out a trailer in first person because it looks so bad. They have third person trailers. Platforming is worse. Stealth is worse. Interacting with walls and cover is worse. No character animations to look at. No outfits to look at. Shooting isn't even better either, as proven by Vanquish in third person. You can shoot just as accurately in third person.

 

[bilderberg]

First person is actively worse in almost every game. I skip tons of games if it's first person. No first person game will even hardly put out a trailer in first person because it looks so bad. They have third person trailers. Platforming is worse. Stealth is worse. Interacting with walls and cover is worse. No character animations to look at. No outfits to look at. Shooting isn't even better either, as proven by Vanquish in third person. You can shoot just as accurately in third person.

Metroid Prime and Mirrors Edge nailed fps platforming, Thief is one of the best stealth series ever made, leaning is more intuitive than a cover system, first person animations and good reload animations replace impressive 3rd person animations. No outfits to look at? Okay, true. Shooting in vanquish feels like shit, movement is good though. It's easily beat by games like F.E.A.R, killzone 2, and Halo. Although, Max Payne 3 arguably has the best shooting mechanics ever and that's 3rd person.

 

[Berserking Guts]

I was ready to disagree, but you convinced me.

 

[Keihart]

I was ready to disagree, but you convinced me.

but WHY?

 

[Despera]

Some games work better in first person.
A game like The Witness for example wouldn't be nearly as immersive if we were able to see the protag.

And then you have games where the perspective is critical to storytelling like Soma.

I dunno... There is no one perspective that's a "one size fits all".

 

[VertigoOA]

Metroid Prime and Mirrors Edge nailed fps platforming, Thief is one of the best stealth series ever made, leaning is more intuitive than a cover system, first person animations and good reload animations replace impressive 3rd person animations. No outfits to look at? Okay, true. Shooting in vanquish feels like shit, movement is good though. It's easily beat by games like F.E.A.R, killzone 2, and Halo. Although, Max Payne 3 arguably has the best shooting mechanics ever and that's 3rd person.

They had posted a garbage hot take.

there is no way friggin imaginable that shooting mechanics could ever be better in 3rd person ... especially considering vanquish.

this is what happens when opinions on games are formed on message boards children... you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

I can’t even knock first-person platforming. Both Metroid Prime and Destiny have excellent platforming...

And then games likes Titanfall make you wonder if superior player movement can be done in first person... it can.

 

[Tomma19]

do not agree at all, not even sure what you are arguing for here

What he is saying that in normal gaming 1ST Person games don't give you a sense of yourself or weight and limbs but in 3rd person you can see your body and it's relation to raw surroundings.

Like IRL, if you look up right now you can see EVERYTHING around you except your face, neck and what's behind( from a POV most similar to 1st person), yet in 1st person games we don't get that sense; i can't sense my limbs or quickly turn my head left or right ..... 3rd person games more easily replicate the above mentioned feeling.