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[Nobody_Important]

Pages upon pages of complaints and outright anger about the governments of the world telling companies what they can and cannot host on their platform.


Now suddenly some of those same people are cheering the idea of Apple being told what it can and cannot host on its platform by a government.

 

[NickFire]

Pages upon pages of complaints and outright anger about the governments of the world telling companies what they can and cannot host on their platform.


Now suddenly some of those same people are cheering the idea of Apple being told what it can and cannot host on its platform by a government.

Are we really comparing state controlled media to allowing an app over the blue hairs objections?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Pages upon pages of complaints and outright anger about the governments of the world telling companies what they can and cannot host on their platform.


Now suddenly some of those same people are cheering the idea of Apple being told what it can and cannot host on its platform by a government.

"YEAH GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLDS, REGULATE THE SHIT OUT OF TWITTER AND ELON!!!!"

"NOOOO GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD, YOU CAN'T TELL APPLE WHAT TO DOOO!!1"

 

[BadBurger]

Just a reminder: the first amendment places restrictions of speech upon the government, not the people. No court will ever allow the government to force private entities to "say" what they don't want to say, nor can they stricken or prohibit private speech unless it violates law which falls outside of its (the 1st's) guidance.

Just something to think about when deliberating about what the government can actually do in regards to Twitter (edit: and Apple, Google, et al).

Edit: I could cite a relatively recent SCOTUS decision but it would invite verboten discussion. Suffice to say it's the law of the land now. Like it or not, and I don't like it personally, but it is what it is. The highest court in the land has spoken. Law speak, not politics

 

[Nobody_Important]

"YEAH GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLDS, REGULATE THE SHIT OUT OF TWITTER AND ELON!!!!"

"NOOOO GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD, YOU CAN'T TELL APPLE WHAT TO DOOO!!1"

I am not telling them to regulate the shit out of Twitter. My only request from the very start is that Twitter moderate hate speech and dangerous conspiracies. At no point did I say the US government should step in on Twitter. Not once. I only acknowledged the laws that are already in place in the EU and elsewhere that Musk has to adhere to. Which is just a fact.


Nice try though lol

 

[akimbo009]

"YEAH GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLDS, REGULATE THE SHIT OUT OF TWITTER AND ELON!!!!"

"NOOOO GOVERNMENTS OF THE WORLD, YOU CAN'T TELL APPLE WHAT TO DOOO!!1"

FTC does regulate speech in the public square. Twitter falls under FTC review and compliance. It's not their choice or any other public communication tool like radio, tv, etc.

Which is actually different than an app store.

So the debate is different.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I am not telling them to regulate the shit out of Twitter. My only request from the very start is that Twitter moderate hate speech and dangerous conspiracies. At no point did I say the US government should step in on Twitter. Not once. I only acknowledged the laws that are already in place in the EU and elsewhere that Musk has to adhere to. Which is just a fact.


Nice try though lol

And likewise Apple should also acknowledge the decisions of the US congress. Elon himself says he'll comply with international law. Really, i see no contradictions here either.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

People in glass houses should not be throwing stones.

This entire thread is full of people who wished death on Twitter until the company changed hands and was perceived as also changing teams, at which point they started cheering at Twitter growing MAUs and whatnot.

Yeah, well, imagine if we could have one non-woke social media platform - just one that is balanced.

 

[Guilty_AI]

FTC does regulate speech in the public square. Twitter falls under FTC review and compliance. It's not their choice or any other public communication tool like radio, tv, etc.

Which is actually different than an app store.

So the debate is different.

indeed a different debate, but Nobody_Important really felt the need to compare the two for a cheap 'gotcha!' moment

 

[Nobody_Important]

Are we really comparing state controlled media to allowing an app over the blue hairs objections?

It genuinely took me a second to realize that you are comparing hate speech laws to "state controlled media".

And likewise Apple should also acknowledge the decisions of the US congress. Elon himself says he'll comply with international law. Really, i see no contradictions here either.

Other than the contradiction of a self described "free speech absolutist" caving into foreign governments and censoring his customers in order to maintain a financial foothold in that particular foreign market, but that is a different debate I guess.

 

[akimbo009]

indeed a different debate, but Nobody_Important really felt the need to compare the two for a cheap 'gotcha!' moment

To an extent. I think he's calling out the absurdity of Elon saying freedom of speech is at risk if Apple drops them from the app store - which is within their right. The only risk there is the risk to Twitter's bottom line, not freedom or democracy or the other hyperbole coming from Elon on this. It doesn't help he keeps publicly antagonizing Apple and his other advertising partners which - even in an $8 check mark world - will be his lion share of revenue contribution.

It seems like a foolhardy position to take in the interest of stabilizing and getting a company back to profitability.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Other than the contradiction of a self described "free speech absolutist" caving into foreign governments and censoring his customers in order to maintain a financial foothold in that particular foreign market, but that is a different debate I guess.

Depends on what said foreign governments are asking him to regulate. If its just the the dictionary definition of hate speech you posted before, there is no real threat to the expression of ideas.

Its only a problem if its the highly customized, open to interpretation, distorded definition of hate speech used by certain blue-haired individuals.

 

[JayK47]

If Tik Tok is available on any app store, than surely Twitter should be as well. If they think Twitter is problematic and are fine with Tik Tok, they are full of shit.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Depends on what said foreign governments are asking him to regulate. If its just the the dictionary definition of hate speech you posted before, there is no real threat to the expression of ideas.

Its only a problem if its the highly customized, open to interpretation, distorded definition of hate speech used by certain blue-haired individuals.

The thing is that absolute means absolute. So even if he is just censoring the dictionary definition he is still a hypocrite by the letter of his own rules. Musk is not the savior of "Free Speech" in the world. He is just the latest charlatan to exploit the phrase in order to make money off the ignorant masses.


His problem is that he is apparently horrible at it and also is horrible at running a business on his own apparently. At least it looks that way of we look at the last few weeks.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The thing is that absolute means absolute. So even if he is just censoring the dictionary definition he is still a hypocrite by the letter of his own rules. Musk is not the savior of "Free Speech" in the world. He is just the latest charlatan to exploit the phrase in order to make money off the ignorant masses.

His problem is that is is apparently horrible at it and also is horrible at running a business on his own apparently. At least it looks that way of we look at the last few weeks.

Sounds like you have a problem with Musk himself . Personally, all i care about are the end results, and so far i like what i see.

 

[akimbo009]

Then you have a problem with Musk himself . All i care about are the end results, and so far i like what i see.

But Elon has made Twitter = Elon. Hard to separate them at this point.

And you can totally not like Elon, dude gives of material towards that - including his decision making with Twitter (and while you like the direction - like any product - it's warranted to have it's detractors).

 

[Clear]

So... they actually want to force Apple to advertise on twitter?
Way to go, freedom of choice, freedom of speech!
"Land of the free", they said.

Its not about advertizing, its about whether the Twitter app should remain on the store - and essentially on the platform by extension.

The question ultimately being is there any justification for this beyond an exercise of power on Apple's part?

If the argument is made for some sort of "ethical" concern, then it needs to be proven in a court of law as otherwise it is kinda inarguably a monopolistic power-play.

I guess what it boils down to is do you want tech giants like Apple to dictate moral and political order through sheer economic might?

Musk is "bad" and they are "good"? Does that not seem a bit naive?

 

[Guilty_AI]

But Elon has made Twitter = Elon. Hard to separate them at this point.

Twitter is still running normally like it always did, it'll be Elon if all you ever do is look at his posts. Try looking up some cool ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) art ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).

And you can totally not like Elon, dude gives of material towards that - including his decision making with Twitter (and while you like the direction - like any product - it's warranted to have it's detractors).

Detractors or not, i still like it much better than what it was before.
Or rather, even if the site disappears from the face of the internet due to poor decisions, thats still a net positive in my book. So yeah, i like it.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Sounds like you have a problem with Musk himself . Personally, all i care about are the end results, and so far i like what i see.

I have a problem with people declaring this and that about free speech when the person they are defending is actively talking out of both sides of their mouth.


Musk is being held up like a martyr by some when in reality he is just as hypocritical as anyone else worried about their bottom line.

 

[akimbo009]

Twitter is still running normally like it always did, it'll be Elon if all you ever do is look at his posts. Try looking up some cool ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) art ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°).

Detractors or not, i still like it much better than what it was before.
Or rather, even if the site disappears from the face of the internet due to poor decisions, thats still a net positive in my book. So yeah, i like it.

I don't use Twitter, so no art for me.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Musk is being held up like a martyr by some when in reality he is just as hypocritical as anyone else worried about their bottom line.

Why are people going so unhinged on him specifically then ? Why don't we shit on, say, Tim Cook? I'd be all for it.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I don't use Twitter, so no art for me.

 

[akimbo009]

Why are people going so unhinged on him specifically then ? Why don't we shit on, say, Tim Cook? I'd be all for it.

Cause it's not an Apple thread? Sure we can shit on Apple products just as easily - Tim doesn't give a lot of ammo but I'm sure we're industrious and can make it work.

 

[Vestal]

Then why are people going so unhinged on him specifically then ? Why don't we shit on, say, Tim Cook? I'd be all for it.

Umm.. Maybe cause Tim Cook doesn't run his Business by tweet? Along with the usual that is over there type deal.. Its not an in your face news story brimming with facts, and spicy content. lets be real, MUSK will simply not stfu.

If Musk had kept his mouth shut over the last 2 months, most of the uproar would have died down.

There are SOOOO many things he could have done differently..

Not fire 80% of the staff without actually evaluating the staff.
This new feature he is rolling out (the 3 new account types etc), if instead of forcing Twitter blue out the door before it was cooked, they announced this as an upcoming feature when he acquired the company and would release it later on.. SIMPLE..

All of those things would have:
1. Kept advertisers comfy
2. Kept the internet uproar at a minimum
3. Shown competence

 

[Guilty_AI]

Cause it's not an Apple thread? Sure we can shit on Apple products just as easily - Tim doesn't give a lot of ammo but I'm sure we're industrious and can make it work.

Not talking about here specifically

 

[Guilty_AI]

Umm.. Maybe cause Tim Cook doesn't run his Business by tweet? Along with the usual that is over there type deal.. Its not an in your face news story brimming with facts, and spicy content. lets be real, MUSK will simply not stfu.

If Musk had kept his mouth shut over the last 2 months, most of the uproar would have died down.

There are SOOOO many things he could have done differently..

Not fire 80% of the staff without actually evaluating the staff.
This new feature he is rolling out (the 3 new account types etc), if instead of forcing Twitter blue out the door before it was cooked, they announced this as an upcoming feature when he acquired the company and would release it later on.. SIMPLE..

All of those things would have:
1. Kept advertisers comfy
2. Kept the internet uproar at a minimum
3. Shown competence

"facts"

But if i understood correctly, the bottom line is people are just hating on him because of media constant negative coverage of his gaffes and not of other bullshit happening.

hmmmm

 

[Vestal]

"facts"

But if i understood correctly, the bottom line is people are just hating on him because of media constant negative coverage of his gaffes and not other bullshit happening.

hmmmm

The media coverage? You mean reading what he is saying?

Hating? More like laughing at him. He is an example of how failing up is a viable thing. Sorry, the last month of his public postings and commentary on how he views twitter and runs the company shows he is an incompetent business man. Maybe he was brilliant at some point, quiet possible. But he has been on a string of fuck ups that in any publicly traded company would have got his ass fired long ago.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The media coverage? You mean reading what he is saying?

Hating? More like laughing at him. He is an example of how failing up is a viable thing. Sorry, the last month of his public postings and commentary on how he views twitter and runs the company shows he is an incompetent business man. Maybe he was brilliant at some point, quiet possible. But he has been on a string of fuck ups that in any publicly traded company would have got his ass fired long ago.

Ok, i get people love hating/laughing on him specifically because its trendy atm.

But point is, i can't give an honest crap about him personally as long as results are good. And as i said before, death of Twitter is among those possible good results for me, so if his decisions are truly as idiotic as media is trying to paint, good... though i've seen this kind of bullshit long enough to know its mostly exageration and fear mongering.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Why are people going so unhinged on him specifically then ? Why don't we shit on, say, Tim Cook? I'd be all for it.

I can and do shit on Tim Cook and Apple.


Did you not see my earlier post? The whole company can eat shit and I have hated it for literally years.

 

[akimbo009]

Ok, i get people love hating/laughing on him specifically because its trendy atm.

But point is, i can't give an honest crap about him personally as long as results are good. And as i said before, death of Twitter is among those possible good results for me, so if his decisions are truly as idiotic as media is trying to paint, good... though i've seen this kind of bullshit long enough to know its mostly exageration and fear mongering.

You know people didn't like him before this, too, right? He's been selling out to China for Tesla for years, and calling rescue workers pedophiles didn't win a ton of fans previously.

You should just accept leaders effect perceptions of their business - this is one of those cases.

 

[Guilty_AI]

You know people didn't like him before this, too, right? He's been selling out to China for Tesla for years, and calling rescue workers pedophiles didn't win a ton of fans previously.

You should just accept leaders effect perceptions of their business - this is one of those cases.

They certainly weren't as vocal about it as they are atm.

Anyway, we digress.

 

[gothmog]

They certainly weren't as vocal about it as they are atm.

Anyway, we digress.

A simple search of "elon musk rescue submarine" would show you that you are wrong. Maybe you didn't notice it, but it was definitely talked about extensively.

 

[Guilty_AI]

A simple search of "elon musk rescue submarine" would show you that you are wrong. Maybe you didn't notice it, but it was definitely talked about extensively.

google trends says they're on completely different realms tho.

 

[Nobody_Important]

They certainly weren't as vocal about it as they are atm.

Anyway, we digress.

Are you nuts?

People absolutely had VERY public issues with Musk before this.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Are you nuts?

People absolutely had VERY public issues with Musk before this.

probably, but to this level? nop

who knows, maybe its just because people are dumb and care more about the social media they consoom than self driving cars catching on fire .

 

[Nobody_Important]

probably, but to this level? nop

The level of his exposure has grown so the criticism grows as well. You can't just pretend that his recent theatrics or his recent acquisition are the sole reason for the polarizing reaction.



This is an ongoing issue with him and the way he represents himself to the public.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The level of his exposure has grown so the criticism grows as well. You can't just pretend that his recent theatrics or his recent acquisition are the sole reason for the polarizing reaction.

Well, all articles on the subject currently are either "ELON'S EVIL FREE SPEECH" or "ADVERTISERS LEAVING, TWITTER WILL DIE".
Posts that talk about previous issues are mostly the exception, sometimes a hot take with some suspiciously named user laughing at how dumb he was and penis shaped cakes.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Well, all articles on the subject currently are either "ELON'S EVIL FREE SPEECH" or "ADVERTISERS LEAVING, TWITTER WILL DIE".
Posts that talk about previous issues are mostly the exception, sometimes a hot take with some suspiciously named user laughing at how dumb he was and penis shaped cakes.

You were expecting the media of the world that makes its money off of clicks and views to cover the story without hyperbole?


Can I interest you in the purchase of a very fine piece of beachfront property in a little state called North Dakota friend?

 

[akimbo009]

Well, all articles on the subject currently are either "ELON'S EVIL FREE SPEECH" or "ADVERTISERS LEAVING, TWITTER WILL DIE".
Posts that talk about previous issues are mostly the exception, sometimes a hot take with some suspiciously named user laughing at how dumb he was and penis shaped cakes.

I mean, it's topical. Why does that surprise you? It'd be picked up in the media no matter what, including business outlets like CNBC. It's not like he's a low profile CEO.

 

[Guilty_AI]

You were expecting the media of the world that makes its money off of clicks and views to cover the story without hyperbole?

Remember:

Can I interest you in the purchase of a very fine piece of beachfront property in a little state called North Dakota friend?

yes, but first i'll need you to deposit $3.000 as collateral on my Rhodesian Prince friend's bank account. I'll pay you back once the deal is done.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I mean, it's topical. Why does that surprise you? It'd be picked up in the media no matter what, including business outlets like CNBC. It's not like he's a low profile CEO.

Nah, it doesn't surprise me. It really doesn't surprise me.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Remember:

Yes I saw the condescending unrelated gif a page or so ago.


Good thing I just pay attention to literal facts.

 

[Platinumstorm]

38 people from Twitter in Boulder resigned today - think that's 125 that I'm aware of. 87 were fired.

While I don't like Twitter, it was really indispensable to me during the Marshall Fire 11 months ago. My primary use of Twitter is collecting information during wildfires. It helped me to decide when I needed to be packed and ready since our emergency system failed on us.

 

[Vestal]

38 people from Twitter in Boulder resigned today - think that's 125 that I'm aware of. 87 were fired.

While I don't like Twitter, it was really indispensable to me during the Marshall Fire 11 months ago. My primary use of Twitter is collecting information during wildfires. It helped me to decide when I needed to be packed and ready since our emergency system failed on us.

May I ask, what type of staff? Just curious what operations ran out of there.

 

[akimbo009]

38 people from Twitter in Boulder resigned today - think that's 125 that I'm aware of. 87 were fired.

While I don't like Twitter, it was really indispensable to me during the Marshall Fire 11 months ago. My primary use of Twitter is collecting information during wildfires. It helped me to decide when I needed to be packed and ready since our emergency system failed on us.

Sounds like a business idea... Twitter for state and local agencies.

 

[Toons]

To an extent. I think he's calling out the absurdity of Elon saying freedom of speech is at risk if Apple drops them from the app store - which is within their right. The only risk there is the risk to Twitter's bottom line, not freedom or democracy or the other hyperbole coming from Elon on this. It doesn't help he keeps publicly antagonizing Apple and his other advertising partners which - even in an $8 check mark world - will be his lion share of revenue contribution.

It seems like a foolhardy position to take in the interest of stabilizing and getting a company back to profitability.

It honestly says so much about Elon that he thought that was a sensible and reasonable thing to post.

Between him and Kanye going off the rails we are seeing a lot of rich folk start openly revealing how self important they are.

The similarities are there. Both framing themselves as either the last stalwart of a cabal that dares to destroy everything WE care about, and/or the only folks qualified to lead society or a portion of it to a new age or some BS.

 

[Swift_Star]

Personally i'm fine with anything that makes Apple unhappy.

Só, freedom has limits?
It seems we’re reaching the point where Americans finally realize that their conception of freedom and free speech is nonsense and contradictory…

 

[Guilty_AI]

Só, freedom has limits?
It seems we’re reaching the point where Americans finally realize that their conception of freedom and free speech is nonsense and contradictory…

Of course there are limits, but that doesn't make authoritarianism and partisanism are suddenly okay.

 

[Swift_Star]

Of course there are limits, but that doesn't make authoritarianism and partisanism are suddenly okay.

I agree, hence, I think the authoritarian stance made by Elon firing the employees that called him out and corrected him in public extremely hypocritical and authoritarian. Elon is very authoritarian and partisan. How can you not see this?

 

[Guilty_AI]

How can you not see this?

Could ask you the same about a lot of things. Do you not see Twitter was extremely partisan before this? Do not see they were leveraging their power over public discourse in authoritharian ways? Do you not see Apple doing the same? Do you not see growing authoritarian tendencies in public discourse, universities and governments to shut down any dissent using the excuse of "eliminating hate speech and fake news"?