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[GamingOblivion]

Drawings aren't children. If you want to act like they are, then making them an adult is just jacking off to adults being raped/murdered. Snuff films are illegal so should drawings of rape and murder be illegal too?

And by extension, video games and other media.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

It may be a loaded question, but it is after all the question being discussed in this thread, cf. thread title and all.

We are not, however, discussing whether drawings and art in general are or should be criminal.

Uhh, extreme child manga porn are still drawings.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Plus in the context of the work, there may be a valid, narrative reason for extreme lewdness and a lack of fictional age of consent. You shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

 

[RedSwirl]

Makes me wonder then where hentai that depicts characters from the Persona series (Specifically 3 and definitely 4) falls then. Even if it does make them look like adults, they are canonically underage.

Or really many of the most popular anime featuring high-school students. Evangelion has been a source of fan art for 20 years now. The amount of hentai of it out there is unimaginable.

 

[capitalCORN]

Can we stop treating pedophilia like it's an orientation? It's a predatory instinct, a form of sociopathy.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Can we stop treating pedophilia like it's an orientation? It's a predatory instinct, a form of sociopathy.

Hmm, I'm not sure what you're talking about. Is there someone in this thread treating pedophilia like a sexual orientation?

 

[Two Words]

Can we stop treating pedophilia like it's an orientation? It's a predatory instinct, a form of sociopathy.

Pedophiles could very well be born the way they are. I don't know, but I don't think the thought should be dismissed just because it might appear ridiculous. I think it would be better to do more research on pedophilia and try to figure out how to handle the issue instead of demo nixing them. If they act, then of course they must be treated like a threat.

 

[Gbraga]

Where would that leave stuff like Prison School?

 

[cosmicblizzard]

You can't be fucking serious. So you simply don't believe pedophiles don't live in Japan.

They absolutely do, and we also know of cases where loli manga was used in the grooming process.

But we also know that child sexual abuse cases in a good chunk of the world are EXPONENTIALLY higher than they are in Japan. Since I assume a lot of us are from the US, it's a fraction of a fraction even when taking into account percentages based on population size. Even when considering lack of reporting, it's improbable that the numbers are anywhere close.

This makes it incomparable to gun violence in America IMO.

So it's starting to look like the "it's not hurting anybody" argument might be bullshit. What research we've seen isn't entirely conclusive but it's there. A few years ago CNN actually did a story on this and interviewed the creator of Love Hina, who believes the manga industry would definitely be in support of some kind of regulation with enough conclusive data. Again, I would prefer some kind of line be drawn if only to put an end to or mitigate the massive grey area that currently exists.

I'm pretty sure Akamatsu said making them less widely available with enough data, but not a straight-up ban.

Though he may be worried that Negima would fall under that and is just protecting his own interests.

 

[capitalCORN]

Pedophiles could very well be born the way they are. I don't know, but I don't think the thought should be dismissed just because it might appear ridiculous. I think it would be better to do more research on pedophilia and try to figure out how to handle the issue instead of demo nixing them. If they act, then of course they must be treated like a threat.

Would you raise the same defense for bestiality?

 

[Two Words]

Would you raise the same defense for bestiality?

I don't think I'm defending pedophilia. I don't know if people are born attracted to animals or not, but I do think it is worth figuring it out of it is feasible. And bestiality doesn't really have anything to do with this. I can make a comment about pdophilia and not say or imply a word about bestiality.

 

[Mailbox]

Would you raise the same defense for bestiality?

Making baseless assumptions to anything related to sex (whether it be sexual activity, or orientation, or function) is not a smart idea.

The thought that things such as pedophilia needs to be researched further is fair.

 

[capitalCORN]

I don't think I'm defending pedophilia. I don't know if people are born attracted to animals or not, but I do think it is worth figuring it out of it is feasible. And bestiality doesn't really have anything to do with this. I can make a comment about pdophilia and not say or imply a word about bestiality.

I'm making a comment about harmful deviant sexualities. What makes you believe that pedophilia is a born identity?

 

[capitalCORN]

Making baseless assumptions to anything related to sex (whether it be sexual activity, or orientation, or function) is not a smart idea.

The thought that things such as pedophilia needs to be researched further is fair.

And what is your conclusion so far?

 

[Doctor Doom]

Can we stop treating pedophilia like it's an orientation? It's a predatory instinct, a form of sociopathy.

Well unless they re strictly attracted to undeveloped minds, they re
simply attracted to undeveloped bodies which may very well be young over 18 adults.

In the future it might be surgically possible for more adults to have undeveloped bodies. If that were the case there really isnt a problem between relations between consenting adults and it doesnt matter how they look, as theyd be Between two consenting adults.

 

[capitalCORN]

Well unless they re strictly attracted to undeveloped minds, they re
simply attracted to undeveloped bodies which may very well be young over 18 adults.

In the future it might be surgically possible for more adults to have undeveloped bodies. If that were the case there really isnt a problem between relations between consenting adults and it doesnt matter how they look, as theyd be Between two consenting adults.

And what kind of fantasy scenario do you see people wanting to inhabit sexually immature bodies?

 

[Mailbox]

And what is your conclusion so far?

On this thread topic?

It's not as black and white as people like to think it is. A straight ban or not ban can have lasting effects. I think depictions of actual children in manga in such a fashion in public works should be banned. Purely fictional works (ie: purely fictional characters) is something that requires proper debate and thought. As many people in this thread have said, an outright ban brings about issues on thought policing and the like.

In terms of beastiality: needs more research. Much like pedophilia. I wanna know why people have sexual urgings to what they do. Some people even have sexual feeling to inanimate objects. I would like to know more about why. Wouldn't you? (To be fair, I love science and biology, so I may be a bit biased in that regard )

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Would you raise the same defense for bestiality?

In the sense that people can be born with a sexual attraction to animals, absolutely, but paraphilia in general as far as them being orientations or not needs more research. Data does seem to suggest that at least with pedophilia, it can absolutely be something someone is born with.

That isn't the topic though.

 

[hobblygobbly]

Would you raise the same defense for bestiality?

I'm making a comment about harmful deviant sexualities. What makes you believe that pedophilia is a born identity?

He/she is not defending it. They are raising the issue of sexual attraction towards pubescents that may be something you are born with. Pedophilia is a mental disorder and from research it has been found to form during puberty, there is no evidence that suggests right now you may be born with it so any argument about that is kind of pointless now. We do know when it forms though. Researchers don't know what causes it yet, but they do know it is something that an individual discovers around the age of puberty and not strictly a choice.

The banning of this sort of manga/art/whatever needs to be considered in regards to how it may influence people that have these impulses/urges. Most of society already thinks that a pedophile is a child molester and abuses child for pornography and the like which forces people with these impulses to keep quiet and not seek medical help which they can get professionally which results in their impulses to get worse and potential for doing these acts increases. This sort of manga/art can be doing two things, it can be an outlet that controls it for some or it can be something that is influencing these impulses/urges. There needs to be a study to determine what is happening regarding that. Regardless, I don't think it being an outlet is good, there are professionals that help one deal with these urges without resorting to stuff like that.

 

[Envelope]

And what kind of fantasy scenario do you see people wanting to inhabit sexually immature bodies?

Does holybaikal count :^)

 

[capitalCORN]

On this thread topic?

It's not as black and white as people like to think it is. A straight ban or not ban can have lasting effects. I think depictions of actual children in manga in such a fashion in public works should be banned. Purely fictional works (ie: purely fictional characters) is something that requires proper debate and thought. As many people in this thread have said, an outright ban brings about issues on thought policing and the like.

In terms of beastiality: needs more research. Much like pedophilia. I wanna know why people have sexual urgings to what they do. Some people even have sexual feeling to inanimate objects. I would like to know more about why. Wouldn't you? (To be fair, I love science and biology, so I may be a bit biased in that regard )

You do realize the barometre is consent. And neither child nor animal can really communicate that to an adult.

 

[Mailbox]

You do realize the barometre is consent. And neither child nor animal can really communicate that to an adult.

Does this come with the assumption that rape porn should also be banned?

Otherwise your point is pointless.

 

[capitalCORN]

Does this come with the assumption that rape porn should also be banned?

Otherwise your point is pointless.

Why is this even a post? Rape is explicitly implied with no consent.

 

[Mailbox]

Why is this even a post? Rape is explicitly implied with no consent.

Some people are into rape porn. By your logic, all rape porn should be banned. Is that your stance?

 

[Meia]

Makes me wonder then where hentai that depicts characters from the Persona series (Specifically 3 and definitely 4) falls then. Even if it does make them look like adults, they are canonically underage.

They're actually not, which is another whole can of worms in this. Age of consent differs from country to country, and hell even state to state. I think even the youngest in terms of states(16) still has things like Persona fall into a safe category.



Censoring something like this is murky for kind of this reason. "High school student" can be frowned at, but legally fine. Of course, this also helps if a show/game actually state age, which some don't(some on purpose or just because they feel it doesn't matter).


As a whole, censorship probably isn't a *good* thing because you HAVE to be very specific in how you do it, and that usually isn't a good tool for creativity in general.

 

[Doctor Doom]

And what kind of fantasy scenario do you see people wanting to inhabit sexually immature bodies?

For starters pedophiles themselves could undergo such procedures, they could then go out with each other.

You do realize the barometre is consent. And neither child nor animal can really communicate that to an adult.

For starters as mentioned some adults have fairly undeveloped bodies, as adults they can consent. Through surgical advances more adults may retain such bodies.

As for animal bodies in virtual reality adults can have animal avatars in the future surgical advances may also enable adults to have animal physical bodies.

 

[capitalCORN]

Some people are into rape porn. By your logic, all rape porn should be banned. Is that your stance?

Of course. Rape is not sex, but violence.

And again Doctor Doom: What the HELL are you smoking?

 

[stump sock]

For starters pedophiles themselves could undergo such procedures, they could then go out with each other.



For starters as mentioned some adults have fairly undeveloped bodies, as adults they can consent. Through surgical advances more adults may retain such bodies.

As for animal bodies in virtual reality adults can have animal avatars in the future surgical advances may also enable adults to have animal physical bodies.

dude what the FUCK

 

[Silver Arrows]

dude what the FUCK

I smell another round of janitor sweeping.

 

[Beefy]

Not going to lie. I have been lurking this thread to see how it went. Due to not being into any kind of anime myself I wondered what others thought. But that post from Doctor Doom freaked me out enough to post.

 

[Doctor Doom]

Of course. Rape is not sex, but violence.

How about torture dismemberment and murder? Should we ban all violent media?

And again Doctor Doom: What the HELL are you smoking?

technology does not stand still, Im only taking progress into account.

 

[Austriacus]

Of course. Rape is not sex, but violence.

And again Doctor Doom: What the HELL are you smoking?

Are you a teenager or something? Are you not aware that some people enjoy consensual pretend rape? Are you actuallt saying pretend rape should be banned? Are you for making this kinda fetish ilegal?

 

[collige]

Some people are into rape porn. By your logic, all rape porn should be banned. Is that your stance?

Of course. Rape is not sex, but violence.

And again Doctor Doom: What the HELL are you smoking?

Are you referring to videos of people actually being raped or BDSM porn videos designed to simulate rape? Because those are two very different things.

Doctor Doom is talking about some weird hypothetical 20 years from now sci-fi shit that is totally irrelevant to this thread.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Child isn't the preferred nomenclature. 1000 year old demon, please.

The manual said she's 22!

 

[freenudemacusers]

And you guys thought Josh Trank was bad.

 

[Beefy]

Are you a teenager or something? Are you not aware that some people enjoy consensual pretend rape? Are you actuallt saying pretend rape should be banned? Are you for making this kinda fetish ilegal?

Does it matter if he is a teenager? It is his/her opinion, just because it is different then yours doesn't give you a right to try and put him/her down.

 

[capitalCORN]

Are you a teenager or something? Are you not aware that some people enjoy consensual pretend rape? Are you actuallt saying pretend rape should be banned? Are you for making this kinda fetish ilegal?

You contradicted yourself. The actors may give consent, but an actual case of rape does not. Roleplay between couples is one thing, but a dude rubbing it to rape-porn is not getting off on the 'sex'.

Okay Doctor Doom. You're either ill in the head or trolling, so...

 

[Silver Arrows]

Does it matter if he is a teenager? It is his/her opinion, just because it is different then yours doesn't give you a right to try and put him/her down.

No matter how insane and OT it is, it seems.

And there he goes.

 

[capitalCORN]

Are you referring to videos of people actually being raped or BDSM porn videos designed to simulate rape? Because those are two very different things.

Doctor Doom is talking about some weird hypothetical 20 years from now sci-fi shit that is totally irrelevant to this thread.

Again. When you watch porn, you're buying into a fantasy. BDSM is (hopefully) a consenting act, with safewords and all. Rape porn buys into the fantasy of rape SPECIFICALLY (aka, non consensual sex).

 

[Mailbox]

Does it matter if he is a teenager? It is his/her opinion, just because it is different then yours doesn't give you a right to try and put him/her down.

I think the point is that the poster doesn't seem to understand the difference between rape as fetish and rape as violence and the quandary of where artistic (fictional) media fall under that. The "teenager" part is just probably insinuating the idea of lack of deeper thought on the subject.

 

[UncleSporky]

Rape is not sex, but violence.

Rape porn buys into the fantasy of rape SPECIFICALLY (aka, non consensual sex).

???

 

[Austriacus]

You contradicted yourself. The actors may give consent, but an actual case of rape does not. Roleplay between couples is one thing, but a dude rubbing it to rape-porn is not getting off on the 'sex'.

Okay Doctor Doom. You're either ill in the head or trolling, so...

But its not rape. People are allowed to have fetishes, its not your bussines why somebody is getting off from something. Rape porn is just two consenting adults pretending something.

 

[capitalCORN]

???

What exactly has you confused?

 

[capitalCORN]

But its not rape. People are allowed to have fetishes, its not your bussines why somebody is getting off from something. Rape porn is just two consenting adults pretending something.

Have you recently looked up the definition of rape in a dictionary?

 

[collige]

Again. When you watch porn, you're buying into a fantasy. BDSM is (hopefully) a consenting act, with safewords and all. Rape porn buys into the fantasy of rape SPECIFICALLY (aka, non consensual sex).

What's your point? I was trying to determine whether you're talking about the filming of an actual crime or the simulation of it. I'm totally fine with the latter and rape fantasies are extremely common for all genders.

 

[Mailbox]

But its not rape. People are allowed to have fetishes, its not your bussines why somebody is getting off from something. Rape porn is just two consenting adults pretending something.

That then brings us back to the original topic of the line in rape porn. Does drawn fictional rape fall under this? Does manga underage sex fall under this?

We really should get back on topic

 

[UncleSporky]

What exactly has you confused?

Rape is not sex, immediately followed by rape is sex?

This from the guy who said another poster was contradicting himself.

 

[Austriacus]

I think the point is that the poster doesn't seem to understand the difference between rape as fetish and rape as violence and the quandary of where artistic (fictional) media fall under that. The "teenager" part is just probably insinuating the idea of lack of deeper thought on the subject.

Yeah i never meant teenager as derogatory but when i was younger i also didnt think a lot of fetishes made sense(like rape porn). As i grew up and with it my experience and confidence in my sexually i became able to understand why some people get off from it even though it was not my thing.

Edit: yeah i think we are getting off topic here

 

[capitalCORN]

What's your point? I was trying to determine whether you're talking about the filming of an actual crime or the simulation of it. I'm totally fine with the latter and rape fantasies are extremely common for all genders.

See, when partners trust each other, they can discuss and consent to whatever fantasy they desire. But it is in the context of consent. Porn is paid actors who do what the script says (as long as they're up to it, hopefully). There's implicit consent in porn. You wanna get freaky in the sheets, that's one thing. But in essence, rape is the concept that one party is at least helpless AND unwilling.

 

[capitalCORN]

Rape is not sex, immediately followed by rape is sex?

This from the guy who said another poster was contradicting himself.

You are fucking around with semantics. If you can't make the leap from non-consensual sex to violence, I am both sad and scared for you.