Support NeoGAF

[X-Wing]

The acquisition and the pop up ads make sense now.
Microsoft trying to force feed CoD down Xbox players' throat because they refuse to play it.

 

[jroc74]

Those splits in favor of PS5 are crazy.

Well, as happens with all multis, an abysmal difference in sales in favor of PS5, you remove COD from PS and the franchise sinks.

Wonder if Microsoft considered this move.

Removing games for PlayStation can sink a franchise overnight, the splits are incredible dominant.

I'm not sure all those people would change platform

And some ppl legit thought.... and may still think.... making it exclusive to Xbox will be good.

It may literally kill the franchise.

As for as ppl switching, its not on the same level but MLB The Show stays a huge seller on PlayStation despite it launching on Game Pass day one since it with multi platform.

I cant even remember how long that was was PlayStation exclusive.

Remember how some were freaking out or gloating about it being on Game Pass day one?

Fun times.

 

[jm89]

Phil thanks all of you for the money.

Like Phil needed the money considering daddy has been bankrolling them for years.

 

[R3TRODYCE]

I’m always surprised by people still buying physical copies.

 

[Ozriel]

people that still play COD....why?

Probably the same reason you play your games? Entertainment?

 

[owandeseis]

COD still gets XB1 versions released? Not that it'd matter, but I thought almost everyone ditched XB1 versions of games in favor of XBS.



That's what I was saying, think you might've misread my comment

hmm think you said digital ratios for PS5 are higher than for Xbox no? and that the gap would be even bigger if we include digital sales from this CoD, which shouldn't be the case.

Digital ratio for example for Elden ring on Xbox was 85% , while on PS5 it was at 50%, definitely way higher on Xbox

My english is far from perfect tho so i might have missunderstood what you meant

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I’m always surprised by people still buying physical copies.

Why? Physical game sales are still big here in Europe, including UK. Same for Japan.

 

[Ozriel]

-25% for CoD is a massive miss on such a big franchise….Destiny 2 was down 45% but made far less revenue

I’m sure Microsoft ain’t pleased with this trend

Miss? For a year that was originally going to be a gap year, then an expansion, then a pivot to a full numbered game? A game made over a shorter period and hence a smaller budget?

They’ll probably be really really happy at this.

 

[Darsxx82]

Total user base matters.

This year's YTD worldwide , the PS5 is estimated to have sold around 14 million as opposed to around 4 million Xbox Series. That's more than 3 to 1.

So based of hardware unit sales and total potential consumers, it's no wonder that the ratio of software sales is overwhelmingly in favor of Playstation.

The total number of users also counts in the physical format and that is why you have those %. The difference is that more than half of XS are digital and the % digital purchase on Xbox is higher than that of PS5 even among PS5 users.

That is to say, no matter how much difference there may be, the agreed % physical+Digital will always tend to rise % in favor of XS.

Digital ratio averages in UK are higher for PlayStation than Xbox. So on average, the gap would actually get worst for Xbox with digital included

No, % of digital sales on XS is higher than % of digital sales on PS5. Add to this that more than half of the XS on the market are XSS and then that percentage is clearly driven up in favor of Xbox.


That does not mean that the total digital sales in XS are going to be higher than the total digital sales of PS5, but they are going to adjust the differences in % more than what the only physical figures indicate which, as I said, today useless to have a true idea of the sales of a game.

 

[Woopah]

o_o no, not even close.

For example, the physical ratio for Elden Ring's copies sold on Xbox was only 15% on release, while on Playstation it was around 50%, basically over 3x times more on average on Playstation consoles.

Kinda obvious since like over half of Xbox consoles sold so far are Series S, and the Xbox user is closer to a PC one, which left Physical copies long ago

Foe Elden Ring in particular, we actually have the global, total splits (note that this is console only and doesn't take PC into account):

PS5: 39%
XBS + XBO: 33%
PS4: 29%

So a clear majority for Playstation there.

 

[Dcr1d3r]

That's about an extra 3-4 million ps5 sales due to the new bundle!

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The decline begins

 

[StealthGoblin]

80% on Ps. That is wild. It will drop with digital of course but damn.

Not as much as people think. COD is always near the top of PS store sales and there are simply more PS consoles.

It's a bit of a false argument to say that Xbox sells more digital games than PlayStation. Even if the digital attach rate is marginally lower on PlayStation, the fact that there are tens of millions more consoles out there more than makes up for it.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Miss? For a year that was originally going to be a gap year, then an expansion, then a pivot to a full numbered game? A game made over a shorter period and hence a smaller budget?

They’ll probably be really really happy at this.

It was never intended to be a gap year

Activision just reached a crisis point with studios over the last few years and were forced to react. They would have ideally had a better product out in time for this year.

The budget for CoD games is massively smaller than the revenue, so the decline of 25% (or more, as time goes on) is a much larger hit than the benefit of more of a shoestring budget

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Not as much as people think. COD is always near the top of PS store sales and there are simply more PS consoles.

It's a bit of a false argument to say that Xbox sells more digital games than PlayStation. Even if the digital attach rate is marginally lower on PlayStation, the fact that there are tens of millions more consoles out there more than makes up for it.

Yup. We are talking like 80% of digital on Xbox vs. 75% on Playstation. Yah, digital may do relatively better, but it's a small amount.

The 80% vs. 20% gap is much larger.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The acquisition and the pop up ads make sense now.
Microsoft trying to force feed CoD down Xbox players' throat because they refuse to play it.

I wonder if a lot of people are now waiting for it to come to GamePass as well.

 

[Venom Snake]

It would be funny if, after 10 years, this majority suddenly stopped supporting this house of cards.

We would find CoD ads even in our underwear drawers.

 

[Goalus]

EA Sports FC 24 is the UK's second biggest retail launch of 2023 | UK Boxed Charts

Publisher's first post-FIFA title sells 30% fewer physical copies than last year Even with the year-on-year decline, EA Sports FC stands as the second biggest retail launch of 2023, bested only by The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom. With digital, it may well be the highest. Last...

www.neogaf.com

Publisher's first post-FIFA title sells 30% fewer physical copies than last year

Sales-Age - EA Sports FC 24 pulls in 11 million users during debut week

EA Sports FC 24 has reached a player account of 11.3 million globally since the week of its launch. Meanwhile, EA Sports FC Mobile hit 11.2 million users ten days after its release. Additionally, the mobile title was downloaded by 2.2 million players on the day of its launch. "In addition to...

www.neogaf.com

EA Sports FC 24 has reached a player account of 11.3 million globally since the week of its launch.

 

[Ozriel]

It was never intended to be a gap year

Activision just reached a crisis point with studios over the last few years and were forced to react. They would have ideally had a better product out in time for this year.

The budget for CoD games is massively smaller than the revenue, so the decline of 25% (or more, as time goes on) is a much larger hit than the benefit of more of a shoestring budget

You claimed it was a ‘Miss’. Their forecast would certainly have taken into consideration the relatively barebones nature of this expansion-turned-full release and adjusted accordingly.

Very likely this is in line with expectations.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You claimed it was a ‘Miss’. Their forecast would certainly have taken into consideration the relatively barebones nature of this expansion-turned-full release and adjusted accordingly.

Very likely this is in line with expectations.

It was a "miss" in terms of meeting annual CoD revenue, I am not arguing what was in their forecast. Certainly I don't think two years ago when MS purchased them, that this result was in their forecast. Forecasts get revised far sooner to product launch.

 

[adamsapple]

It was a "miss" in terms of meeting annual CoD revenue, I am not arguing what was in their forecast. Certainly I don't think two years ago when MS purchased them, that this result was in their forecast. Forecasts get revised far sooner to product launch.

How do you possibly know that?

What was the expected revenue for this? by how much has it missed? I'm assuming you know the digital sales ratio as well with such a confident proclamation

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

How do you possibly know that?

What was the expected revenue for this? by how much has it missed? I'm assuming you know the digital sales ratio as well with such a confident proclamation

It's already down 25%. Companies would like to maintain or grow revenue, not shrink them.

 

[adamsapple]

It's already down 25%. Companies would like to maintain or grow revenue, not shrink them.

In UK boxed only sales.

Spider Man 2 was 20% down over Ragnarok and even more over the original PS4 game in the same metrics. Would you call that a miss as well?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

In UK boxed only sales.

Spider Man 2 was 20% down over Ragnarok and even more over the original PS4 game in the same metrics. Would you call that a miss as well?

Digital tie ratio has been very consistent the last few years.

If they are down 25% on boxed, very likely they are close to that overall.

Spider-Man 2 was a PS5 exclusive, Ragnarok was also available on PS4. I can also see Spider-Man doing better over time due to a more casual IP appeal, whereas God of War being more front loaded by core audiences.

 

[owandeseis]

Foe Elden Ring in particular, we actually have the global, total splits (note that this is console only and doesn't take PC into account):

PS5: 39%
XBS + XBO: 33%
PS4: 29%

So a clear majority for Playstation there.

Exactly, and the physical sales on first week were like 65%-17% for PS5 vs Xbox.

CoD's case must be similar i guess, probably better digital sales on both PS5 and Xbox since it's a CoD after all.

 

[DeepSpace5D]

Foe Elden Ring in particular, we actually have the global, total splits (note that this is console only and doesn't take PC into account):

PS5: 39%
XBS + XBO: 33%
PS4: 29%

So a clear majority for Playstation there.

I didn’t realize the PS4 percentage for Elden Ring was that much. Probably because it’s the only way to get a stable 60fps on PS5.

 

[adamsapple]

Digital tie ratio has been very consistent the last few years.

If they are down 25% on boxed, very likely they are close to that overall.

Spider-Man 2 was a PS5 exclusive, Ragnarok was also available on PS4. I can also see Spider-Man doing better over time due to a more casual IP appeal, whereas God of War being more front loaded by core audiences.

As always with these UK boxed threads, people jump to conclusions way too early just based on physical only metrics.

Exactly, and the physical sales on first week were like 65%-17% for PS5 vs Xbox.

For Elden Ring's specific example, 85% of UK Xbox sales were digital.

According to GSD's figures, digital downloads accounted for over 68% of Elden Ring's sales. Xbox and PC were the biggest digital platforms. Almost 85% of Elden Ring sales on Xbox were downloaded, and on PC it was 73%. For PS5 and PS4, the sales were just over 50% digital.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/elden-ring-is-the-biggest-non-fifa-or-call-of-duty-launch-since-red-dead-redemption-2-uk-digital-chart

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I didn’t realize the PS4 percentage for Elden Ring was that much. Probably because it’s the only way to get a stable 60fps on PS5.

Yeah, I went with the PS4 physical copy of the game since I wanted that nearly locked 60 fps experience and several of my friends did the same. Of course this is all anecdotal though and I'm probably wrong.

 

[Woopah]

Exactly, and the physical sales on first week were like 65%-17% for PS5 vs Xbox.

CoD's case must be similar i guess, probably better digital sales on both PS5 and Xbox since it's a CoD after all.

We'd also have to take into account that PS5's userbase advantage over Xbox Series is much higher now than when Elden Ring launched.

I didn’t realize the PS4 percentage for Elden Ring was that much. Probably because it’s the only way to get a stable 60fps on PS5.

I don't think it had much to do with framerate. More that PS4 still had a massive userbase in 2022

 

[owandeseis]

We'd also have to take into account that PS5's userbase advantage over Xbox Series is much higher now than when Elden Ring launched.

I don't think it had much to do with framerate. More that PS4 still had a massive userbase in 2022

 

[DeepSpace5D]

I don't think it had much to do with framerate. More that PS4 still had a massive userbase in 2022

But despite that massive userbase, didn’t sales of crossgen games fall off a cliff for PS4 after PS5 was released? I might be wrong, but a 39%/29% between PS5/PS4 seems much higher than other crossgen sales percentages between the two platforms at that time.

The 60fps might’ve been a bigger deal than you think, especially when Digital Foundry and others were saying the PS4 version was the way to go if you want that 60fps. It certainly influenced my decision anecdotally.

But anyway, I realize it’s not the topic of the thread so I won’t talk about it much more. I just found the data interesting.

 

[Kenneth Haight]

people that still play COD....why?

 

[Woopah]

But despite that massive userbase, didn’t sales of crossgen games fall off a cliff for PS4 after PS5 was released? I might be wrong, but a 39%/29% between PS5/PS4 seems much higher than other crossgen sales percentages between the two platforms at that time.

The 60fps might’ve been a bigger deal than you think, especially when Digital Foundry and others were saying the PS4 version was the way to go if you want that 60fps. It certainly influenced my decision anecdotally.

But anyway, I realize it’s not the topic of the thread so I won’t talk about it much more. I just found the data interesting.

I don't think we know that at all, since we rarely get global numbers split by SKU.

But if we look at Japan, we saw several ganes sell better on PS4 than PS5 in 2022.

Likewise if we look at sales in France in 2022, the latest COD and FIFA games sold more on PS4 than PS5. And Sony's big first party games sold pretty similarly on PS4 to PS5.

Happy to discuss in pm as this isn't the topic of the thread.

 

[Goalus]

people that still play COD....why?

People also buy Apple devices.
They also buy Playstations.

 

[Varteras]

That's good news if digital dropped too, copy and paste each year the same trash

Exactly the problem with my brother. He complains constantly about the state of CoD. Saw the reviews for MW3 but didn't care. Got excited and bought the game. Now he's complaining about it all over again. He switched back to Fortnite and Valorant already.

The percentage of people that are going to switch platforms over one franchise is minuscule...

If I recall, this was one of the major factors for the CMA dropping console concerns over the deal. The data showed that it was very unlikely to cause the kind of big shift in marketshare, that many believed, if CoD would have been made Xbox exclusive. I've also seen compelling arguments that it would be far more damaging to the franchise than PlayStation.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Exactly the problem with my brother. He complains constantly about the state of CoD. Saw the reviews for MW3 but didn't care. Got excited and bought the game. Now he's complaining about it all over again. He switched back to Fortnite and Valorant already.



If I recall, this was one of the major factors for the CMA dropping console concerns over the deal. The data showed that it was very unlikely to cause the kind of big shift in marketshare, that many believed, if CoD would have been made Xbox exclusive. I've also seen compelling arguments that it would be far more damaging to the franchise than PlayStation.

While it might not cause a change in market share, it could starve Sony of revenue, which in turn could slow its ascent

 

[Varteras]

While it might not cause a change in market share, it could starve Sony of revenue, which in turn could slow its ascent

For sure. Exactly one of the reasons you've been arguing about their income and profits. They need to reduce dependencies and increase margins.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

For sure. Exactly one of the reasons you've been arguing about their income and profits. They need to reduce dependencies and increase margins.

You look at the things Sony is doing whether it be with Audeze or iSize and it's all about profitability and margins.

Same with buying Bluepoint and Nixxes (although I'd argue more so Nixxes).

You look at PlayStation Productions, the drive for GaaS, and the question is the same. How do you increase operating income outside of the cycle of AAA games that take more and more time to produce and more and more time to polish.

If Insomniac could have had an extra 6 months with Spider-Man 2, maybe even an extra year, maybe it's a 95 game. A couple more boss fights, less buggy, and less repetitive.

The problem is Sony needed Spider-Man 2 to push it towards its goal of 25 million units for the fiscal year. With the delay of other games, it couldn't afford to push Spider-Man. Stock would have taken a major hit and honestly, the game probably would have sold the same regardless.

But a game like Starfield that has an 83? Maybe the extra time would have created more impact. Maybe CoD MW3 gets delayed to next year and gets more time to cook, but they have holiday benchmarks to achieve.

We'll see with FF7R, that probably could have been pushed to release in December, they have it set for February. That's a good sign in my estimation. They want to get things right.

 

[Woopah]

You look at the things Sony is doing whether it be with Audeze or iSize and it's all about profitability and margins.

Same with buying Bluepoint and Nixxes (although I'd argue more so Nixxes).

You look at PlayStation Productions, the drive for GaaS, and the question is the same. How do you increase operating income outside of the cycle of AAA games that take more and more time to produce and more and more time to polish.

If Insomniac could have had an extra 6 months with Spider-Man 2, maybe even an extra year, maybe it's a 95 game. A couple more boss fights, less buggy, and less repetitive.

The problem is Sony needed Spider-Man 2 to push it towards its goal of 25 million units for the fiscal year. With the delay of other games, it couldn't afford to push Spider-Man. Stock would have taken a major hit and honestly, the game probably would have sold the same regardless.

But a game like Starfield that has an 83? Maybe the extra time would have created more impact. Maybe CoD MW3 gets delayed to next year and gets more time to cook, but they have holiday benchmarks to achieve.

We'll see with FF7R, that probably could have been pushed to release in December, they have it set for February. That's a good sign in my estimation. They want to get things right.

I'm not sure we can be sure with FF7R. It could we be "the game could use more time, but we need a boost before our end of financial year".

Hopefully you're right though.

 

[yazenov]

The total number of users also counts in the physical format and that is why you have those %. The difference is that more than half of XS are digital and the % digital purchase on Xbox is higher than that of PS5 even among PS5 users.

That is to say, no matter how much difference there may be, the agreed % physical+Digital will always tend to rise % in favor of XS.


No, % of digital sales on XS is higher than % of digital sales on PS5. Add to this that more than half of the XS on the market are XSS and then that percentage is clearly driven up in favor of Xbox.


That does not mean that the total digital sales in XS are going to be higher than the total digital sales of PS5, but they are going to adjust the differences in % more than what the only physical figures indicate which, as I said, today useless to have a true idea of the sales of a game.

PS5 market share in the UK is getting bigger and MS's market share is shrinking. PS5 has seen a YOY increase while the Xbox Series declined YOY. The gap is going to get larger and this is just the 3rd year of their life cycle.

No matter the digital share advantage the Xbox has over PS, it will be offset by the sheer number of PS5 userbase.

Let's face the facts, the ratio of software sales will keep on increasing in favor of the PS5 every year due to the PS5 unit sales advantage over the Xbox. It's inevitable.

 

[Darsxx82]

PS5 market share in the UK is getting bigger and MS's market share is shrinking. PS5 has seen a YOY increase while the Xbox Series declined YOY. The gap is going to get larger and this is just the 3rd year of their life cycle.

No matter the digital share advantage the Xbox has over PS, it will be offset by the sheer number of PS5 userbase.

Let's face the facts, the ratio of software sales will keep on increasing in favor of the PS5 every year due to the PS5 unit sales advantage over the Xbox. It's inevitable.

You keep confusing what is being said or you just don't want to see what is being said...

Nobody is saying that the digital sales of the XS will be higher than the digital sales of the PS5.
The difference in units sold between the XS and PS5 does not matter. This circumstance is already being based on physical figures.
The fact that the % of digital sales of XS is much higher than that of PS5 (for obvious and proven reasons) means that when you have the digital + physical sales figures you will obtain different and tighter percentages than those you see in the physical sales figures simply for pure mathematics.

Now, if what you want is to believe that the physical+digital figures are going to offer those same percentages of the physical data.... OK

 

[SteadyEvo]

Could be that more are buying digital, but the game needs to decline if we want them to improve it, 80 euros DLC

I agree. COD needs a complete change of scenery. Leave the war on terror and bring the action closer to home. Something with law enforcement, similar to BF Hardline. A proper campaign with character development and solid plot would be amazing.

 

[yazenov]

You keep confusing what is being said or you just don't want to see what is being said...

Nobody is saying that the digital sales of the XS will be higher than the digital sales of the PS5.
The difference in units sold between the XS and PS5 does not matter. This circumstance is already being based on physical figures.
The fact that the % of digital sales of XS is much higher than that of PS5 (for obvious and proven reasons) means that when you have the digital + physical sales figures you will obtain different and tighter percentages than those you see in the physical sales figures simply for pure mathematics.

Now, if what you want is to believe that the physical+digital figures are going to offer those same percentages of the physical data.... OK

Maybe in the UK the total digital + physical will not be as lopsided in favor of the PS, but in the European charts and worldwide figures, I expect the ratio to be 75 or higher for PS5. Increase that to +80% for non-FPS shooters.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The fact that the % of digital sales of XS is much higher than that of PS5

This is false

 

[Darsxx82]

This is false

Sure Jam gif.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Sure Jam gif.

Sure buddy. Why don't you post the receipts?

Sony games are already at roughly 70% digital tie ratio.

 

[Darsxx82]

Maybe in the UK the total digital + physical will not be as lopsided in favor of the PS, but in the European charts and worldwide figures, I expect the ratio to be 75 or higher for PS5. Increase that to +80% for non-FPS shooters.

EU for sure, worldwide sales I highly doubt it. Meanwhile, 60% of XS sales are in the USA and it is the place where the largest COD player base exists.

 

[Darsxx82]

Sure buddy. Why don't you post the receipts?

Sony games are already at roughly 70% digital tie ratio.

Dring said on several occasions that the % digital on XBOX is higher and even exceeds 80% in some games. Historically, Xbox users have been more likely to buy digitally and to that you add the most important point to the equation. XSS exceeds 50-60% of XS sales and inevitably that has a huge impact.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Dring said on several occasions that the % digital on XBOX is higher and even exceeds 80% in some games. Historically, Xbox users have been more likely to buy digitally and to that you add the most important point to the equation. XSS exceeds 50-60% of XS sales and inevitably that has a huge impact.

You said that they had SIGNIFICANTLY higher digital tie ratios than playstation. I don't consider 80% vs 70% to be significant.

 

[twilo99]

Probably the same reason you play your games? Entertainment?

Logic is futile.