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[hockeypuck]

Residents do work crazy hours, but studies show that having one doctor taking care of the patient and having less hand-offs to other doctors is actually better for patient outcomes; it balances out the possible sleep deprivation etc. On top of that, a lot of residents choose to work past the 80 hour limit (ex. surgery residents) because this is the time they have to develop their skills.

But overall I agree, healthcare in america needs some major reforms.

1) Did those same studies look at the detriment to resident mental/physical health by working more 30 hour-shifts? Is it no wonder why the U.S. physician suicide rate is over 2 times higher than the population average? And are those gains in patient outcomes (an absolute difference of 0.60% in mortality, since I'm assuming you're basing off the Am J Med 2015 paper) worth it? Zero point six percent. 2.08% vs 2.68%. Whoopdee-freakin-do. I say no.

2) Yeah, "choose" is a very generous term here. The 80 hour work week is far more violated because shit needs to get done, and faaaar less likely because residents are actually volunteering to take a case. You make it sound like surgery cases would still get covered if residents adhered to the 80 hour limit.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Come the next general election, I hope people with left wing values come together in massive numbers to collectively drown out the utter garbage the tabloids will be spewing about Corbyn.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Come the next general election, I hope people with left wing values come together in massive numbers to collectively drown out the utter garbage the tabloids will be spewing about Corbyn.

Unfortunately I'm terrified it will still be his own fucking party

 

[Ogodei]

Unfortunately I'm terrified it will still be his own fucking party

Near as i can tell, being a foreigner, New Labour largely backed off after the election.

The tabloids were going to trash the labour candidate anyway, so you might as well get an honest one. Triangulation doesn't work when one side's determined to shit on you.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Unfortunately I'm terrified it will still be his own fucking party

People are more pissed then ever before. The left wing are becoming even more vocal against Tory policy.Stuff like this and Tax Credits have angered a lot of people who knew no better when they voted Tory.

The main thing is under Corbyn, we now have someone to identify with, as opposed to Milliband who even Labour supporters and the left couldn't really get behind.

I can say with confidence that once election season is here you are going to see much much more passion and a bigger push then we got before.

It's definitely an uphill battle, but with the massive influx of people showing face to vote corbyn in we have the numbers to let people see behind their lies now.

 

[NekoFever]

Come the next general election, I hope people with left wing values come together in massive numbers to collectively drown out the utter garbage the tabloids will be spewing about Corbyn.

I really doubt Corbyn will be Labour leader in 2020.

 

[Greddleok]

I'd give a shit if it didn't take over a week to see a doctor.

 

[Dopus]

I'd give a shit if it didn't take over a week to see a doctor.

Well it'll only take longer now as there have been a ton more applications for outside of the UK. Doctors want to leave. Enjoy your wait or maybe start giving a shit.

 

[Jezbollah]

People are more pissed then ever before. The left wing are becoming even more vocal against Tory policy.Stuff like this and Tax Credits have angered a lot of people who knew no better when they voted Tory.

The main thing is under Corbyn, we now have someone to identify with, as opposed to Milliband who even Labour supporters and the left couldn't really get behind.

I can say with confidence that once election season is here you are going to see much much more passion and a bigger push then we got before.

It's definitely an uphill battle, but with the massive influx of people showing face to vote corbyn in we have the numbers to let people see behind their lies now.

Do you actually think Corbyn will be your leader in four years time? Because it seems like your own MPs are trying to shit on him from a great height.

 

[Messofanego]

Talked to a British doctor about this quite recently and she was absolutely livid about it, and deservedly so. The changes are mental. It's not just the hours, lower compensation for overtime can have serious repercussions for a profession that tends to work ridiculous amounts of overtime at odd times of day. As in "40 % pay cut" repercussions.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/18/junior-doctors-new-contract-cut-pay-40-per-cent

Yes, that's 40 % with a zero after the four. How would you like it to have almost half your pay cut while being forced to work more? The doctor I talked with was fully convinced that the goal is actually to break the NHS because this goes beyond normal incompetence and continues into deliberate mismanagement territory. The idea would be to make working for the NHS so unpalatable that the government can force doctors to support privatising it out of sheer self-preservation.

Jeez that's really bad. Thanks for the article.

 

[BareKnuckle]

My gf is an NHS nurse AND she has an operation scheduled on the second phase of the strike so she's really seeing both sides of the coin here.

She is still backing the junior doctors and so am I, let's go guys ✊🏼

 

[Messofanego]

My family of doctors is fuming about this. In fact we're questioning why my sister (F2 doctor) isn't going for on strike. She's naive that she thinks there are more favourable solutions but we're at breaking point here. This affects everyone that isn't a consultant. She seems to understand now about no overtime pay and potential 40% pay cuts and inhumane hours.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Ahh so the medical profession finally has their Michael Gove.

 

[samn]

Yes because the NHS has infinite money, and having to deal with slightly shitty hours in order to guarantee a lifetime of great pay and the worlds fucking cushiest public pensions is just awful.

My best friend and another close friend are both nurses and they are furious about how junior doctors are acting like precious princesses over something which has been a long time coming.

Wow, you really have no clue do you. It's not a 'slightly shittier' deal. Go do some research.

I have an aunt and a friend who are nurses and they support the strike, while recognising they themselves are getting a bad deal as well. Instead of trying to take a dump on other people who are fighting for their rights maybe your friends should take it as an example and do the same.

Ahh so the medical profession finally has their Michael Gove.

No, that was Lansley.

 

[gerg]

Just as a point of clarification - I still think that Hunt is terrible and that the junior doctors should take every possible course of action to disrupt the intended contracts - this isn't the first strike the NHS has ever faced. It is, however, the first in 40 years!

 

[Mr-Joker]

UK gov't really pushing for privatized healthcare.

Indeed, I fear that one day I will have to pay for getting new hearing aids batteries or repairing/replacing them.

We're suppose to going forward and showing the world that free health care is a right not regressing backward.

Come the next general election, I hope people with left wing values come together in massive numbers to collectively drown out the utter garbage the tabloids will be spewing about Corbyn.

I didn't vote in this general election as I didn't know who to vote for, but come the next one I will be voting for Lib dem.

I'd give a shit if it didn't take over a week to see a doctor.

It's funny because my hospital appointment next year got cancelled and the new date they next me actually bumped the date up earlier.

 

[Spaghetti]

The main thing is under Corbyn, we now have someone to identify with, as opposed to Milliband who even Labour supporters and the left couldn't really get behind.

from anecdotal evidence, i can actually say people are taking to corbyn better than they did to milliband. they generally seem to appreciate his willingness to show where his moral compass points at. he's certainly someone i'd trust more personally than slick, oily david cameron.

it's a shame the parliamentary labour party are doing everything they can to chuck corbyn even after a few months. he quite soundly beat all the other candidates for the leadership, so the sabotage attempts from within his own party are in a lot of ways spitting in the eye of the election process.

even if corbyn does go, i don't fancy labour's chances at the next election if they run on a tory-lite platform AGAIN. seems their election plan is to wait until the public are so utterly done with the conservatives that they have to vote labour. of course, that could take forever with the right wing stranglehold on the press.

 

[entremet]

Remind me how residents are treated. It's so backwards.

 

[spuckthew]

It makes me sad that Jeremy Hunt represents my constituency.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Largest NHS deficit ever recorded, junior doctors striking, other healthcare professionals getting shitty deals.

It's all coming together now. Another 12 months and the privatisation talk will start to creep in...

 

[Greddleok]

Well it'll only take longer now as there have been a ton more applications for outside of the UK. Doctors want to leave. Enjoy your wait or maybe start giving a shit.

I don't wait any more. Private is the way forward. The NHS is dying a slow, painful death.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I don't wait any more. Private is the way forward. The NHS is dying a slow, painful death.

An orchestrated and unnecessary death.

 

[Messofanego]

I don't wait any more. Private is the way forward. The NHS is dying a slow, painful death.

Forward for rich people.

 

[God Dayumm]

I don't wait any more. Private is the way forward. The NHS is dying a slow, painful death.

I support public healthcare, but I admit it can't be sustainable when you start having to hoist patients by crane to the doctor

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/573987/60-stone-woman-crane-Britains-fattest-teenager-rescue-operation-Georgia-Davis

 

[Nivash]

I support public healthcare, but I admit it can't be sustainable when you start having to hoist patients by crane to the doctor

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/573987/60-stone-woman-crane-Britains-fattest-teenager-rescue-operation-Georgia-Davis

Private isn't more sustainable, the costs are still there and someone have to pay for them. If anything, private systems cost more because they have a lot more middlemen involved ranging from insurance companies to advertisers. They only look more sustainable to the reasonably wealthy and reasonably healthy because they charge the poor and the sick right out the door so the hospitals look less crowded.

 

[NekoFever]

I don't wait any more. Private is the way forward. The NHS is dying a slow, painful death.

Sounds great. And what about the people who can't afford private or don't have jobs that provide it?

I have private healthcare through my job and still think it's absolutely not the way forward to provide care for 70 million people.

How could it be? It has all the same costs, plus the need to make a profit, plus the inefficiencies of having to negotiate with insurance companies, and emergency care is not a market where competition is possible.

 

[Greddleok]

Just be clear, when I said private is the way forward, I meant for me, now. I pay because I don't want to use the NHS, and I don't want to wait.
I'd love public health care to work, but if it's not working, do we just have to accept that it's not good? I'm not a bad person for using what I have to get a better service.
I'd rather pay and not wait. If people can't afford to pay to skip queues, then ok. I don't owe them convenience.

 

[King_Moc]

Just be clear, when I said private is the way forward, I meant for me, now. I pay because I don't want to use the NHS, and I don't want to wait.
I'd love public health care to work, but if it's not working, do we just have to accept that it's not good? I'm not a bad person for using what I have to get a better service.
I'd rather pay and not wait. If people can't afford to pay to skip queues, then ok. I don't owe them convenience.

That's lovely and all, but it was working until our own government sabotaged it and then got all their school mates in the Media to tell us it's shit.

 

[NekoFever]

Just be clear, when I said private is the way forward, I meant for me, now. I pay because I don't want to use the NHS, and I don't want to wait.
I'd love public health care to work, but if it's not working, do we just have to accept that it's not good? I'm not a bad person for using what I have to get a better service.
I'd rather pay and not wait. If people can't afford to pay to skip queues, then ok. I don't owe them convenience.

It's worked for nearly 70 years. It's only stopping working because it's being deliberately underfunded and mismanaged.

 

[Ian]

Just be clear, when I said private is the way forward, I meant for me, now. I pay because I don't want to use the NHS, and I don't want to wait.
I'd love public health care to work, but if it's not working, do we just have to accept that it's not good? I'm not a bad person for using what I have to get a better service.
I'd rather pay and not wait. If people can't afford to pay to skip queues, then ok. I don't owe them convenience.

Good for you. What about the people who can't afford that?

 

[Greddleok]

That's lovely and all, but it was working until our own government sabotaged it and then got all their school mates in the Media to tell us it's shit.

It's worked for nearly 70 years. It's only stopping working because it's being deliberately underfunded and mismanaged.

I'm not denying that. That doesn't change the fact it's not working any more. It doesn't change the fact that I'm sick of waiting for sub-par treatment.
It's not my fault the conservatives are running it into the ground, I didn't vote for them. I'm just not going to sit around waiting for it to improve. I can't exactly influence it. My vote already went to those who want to keep it running.

Good for you. What about the people who can't afford that?

What about them? They're not my responsibility.

 

[Boy Wander]

It's worked for nearly 70 years. It's only stopping working because it's being deliberately underfunded and mismanaged.

By how much less, in real terms, is it being underfunded than it was say 20 years ago?
I'm not sure it's underfunding that is the real issue here, but inefficiency. When Labour got in, they installed a metric ton of managers carrying clipboards which did literally jack to help the man on the street. My mum was a nurse for 40 years and she said that things started to go to shit under Blair.

 

[gerg]

It's worked for nearly 70 years. It's only stopping working because it's being deliberately underfunded and mismanaged.

Even though I do think the NHS is beig underfunded and mismanaged, I don't think you can compare the health issues people face now with those that they faced 70 years ago. Cynically said, people are dying more expensively these days than they were 70 years ago. With people living longer and the general health of the population improving you're much more likely to die from a longer-lasting degenerative disease (such as Alzheimer's or cancer) than a sudden, fatal illness, and it's these diseases which cost a lot of money to treat. That's aside from the general increase in population, and from mental health issues which are increasingly treated and social issues (not only limited to binge drinking) which the NHS is more and more required to treat, most recently because of the cuts to other services.

 

[driver116]

I watched an interview last night and Hunt said the Junior Doctors are been mislead by the unions.

 

[2700]

It seems to have been lost within the debate that the total amount allocated to junior doctor pay is not changing, there is no cut happening here.

I'm not entirely sure why every hour on Saturday should continue to be classed as unsociable and worthy of extra pay. Just because it's normal for the wider population doesn't mean that should be true for doctors. Healthcare is naturally a 24hour, 7 day service, people can't choose to fall ill or suffer injury between 9-5 on a Mon-Fri and some may want to have appointments that fall on the weekend. Hospitals shouldn't have to pay a premium on Saturdays to keep services available for such people. Junior doctors have to show more flexibility with their weekly working pattern.

 

[hohoXD123]

When a group who hasn't striked in 40 years decides to do so with 98% voting in favour, you know that something is wrong. This isn't just a contract which will cut the greedy doctors' pay, this is a ~30% cut for potentially working the unsustainable hours of many years ago. Patients will suffer. The nurses/midwives/etc. who will be next on Hunt's hitlist will suffer. This isn't being done in the interests of patient safety, his dubious use of statistics which he has been called out on should make that obvious enough. This is being done because of a silly and impractical manifesto pledge, either that or he is deliberately dismantling the NHS.

I watched an interview last night and Hunt said the Junior Doctors are been mislead by the unions.

Yeah, he does enjoy patronising people who have been trained to critically evaluate evidence and who can look at the DDRB recommendations for themselves.

It seems to have been lost within the debate that the total amount allocated to junior doctor pay is not changing, there is no cut happening here.

I'm not entirely sure why every hour on Saturday should continue to be classed as unsociable and worthy of extra pay. Just because it's normal for the wider population doesn't mean that should be true for doctors. Healthcare is naturally a 24hour, 7 day service, people can't choose to fall ill or suffer injury between 9-5 on a Mon-Fri and some may want to have appointments that fall on the weekend. Hospitals shouldn't have to pay a premium on Saturdays to keep services available for such people. Junior doctors have to show more flexibility with their weekly working pattern.

If you have the same amount of money and the same amount of staff/resources, how do you propose increasing routine services from 5 days a week to 7 days?

 

[Cindres]

Just be clear, when I said private is the way forward, I meant for me, now. I pay because I don't want to use the NHS, and I don't want to wait.
I'd love public health care to work, but if it's not working, do we just have to accept that it's not good? I'm not a bad person for using what I have to get a better service.
I'd rather pay and not wait. If people can't afford to pay to skip queues, then ok. I don't owe them convenience.

It;'s "shit" because the current government is gutting the fuck out of it and making it shit. There's no way this all isn't on purpose.

My company started offering private healthcare this year, I'm yet to take it out of principle. I'll stick by the NHS to the very end.

EDIT:

It seems to have been lost within the debate that the total amount allocated to junior doctor pay is not changing, there is no cut happening here.

I'm not entirely sure why every hour on Saturday should continue to be classed as unsociable and worthy of extra pay. Just because it's normal for the wider population doesn't mean that should be true for doctors. Healthcare is naturally a 24hour, 7 day service, people can't choose to fall ill or suffer injury between 9-5 on a Mon-Fri and some may want to have appointments that fall on the weekend. Hospitals shouldn't have to pay a premium on Saturdays to keep services available for such people. Junior doctors have to show more flexibility with their weekly working pattern.

This however I agree with. If you're going to be a doctor you surely understand going in what the kind of working days are going to be? And by that I purely mean working saturdays/sundays. Now I still don't think we should be making doctors work >5 days a week like the rest of the regular workforce. Just that I don't see the weekends as a premium, like 2700 said; people don't choose when they fall ill/have injuries.

 

[SuperBowser]

It seems to have been lost within the debate that the total amount allocated to junior doctor pay is not changing, there is no cut happening here.

I'm not entirely sure why every hour on Saturday should continue to be classed as unsociable and worthy of extra pay. Just because it's normal for the wider population doesn't mean that should be true for doctors. Healthcare is naturally a 24hour, 7 day service, people can't choose to fall ill or suffer injury between 9-5 on a Mon-Fri and some may want to have appointments that fall on the weekend. Hospitals shouldn't have to pay a premium on Saturdays to keep services available for such people. Junior doctors have to show more flexibility with their weekly working pattern.

Doctors already provide a 24/7 service. Have you ever gone to a hospital at any time of day and not been seen by a doctor?! Hunt's stated goals have no correlation to the changes he is making in these contracts.

The new contract looks to add about 8 additional hours per week to receive the same pay (a sane person would call this a large paycut). This same pay is only being bolstered by a "pay protection" supplement that lasts till 2019. In effect, Hunt has attempted to buy off doctors to sell the future generation down the drain. After 2019, doctors can look forward to pay cuts between 10%-40% whilst simultaneously working more hours. To top this off, safeguards to prevent dangerous hours being forced on doctors are being removed. The intention for these removals is clear.

Doctors already work irregular shift patterns that include night shifts and evening shifts. They already work longer hours than they are contracted to do so for free on a regular basis because so many departments are understaffed and under pressure. But doctors are human too. They need things like sleep, food and social lives. You cannot increase routine Monday to Friday 9-5 services with an already underfunded and understaffed workforce by magic.

I watched an interview last night and Hunt said the Junior Doctors are been mislead by the unions.

Doctors have basic literary skills and can form their own opinions. Hunt, on the other hand...

 

[Messofanego]

Doctors already provide a 24/7 service. Have you ever gone to a hospital at any time of day and not been seen by a doctor?! Hunt's stated goals have no correlation to the changes he is making in these contracts.

The new contract looks to add about 8 additional hours per week to receive the same pay (a sane person would call this a large paycut). This same pay is only being bolstered by a "pay protection" supplement that lasts till 2019. In effect, Hunt has attempted to buy off doctors to sell the future generation down the drain. After 2019, doctors can look forward to pay cuts between 10%-40% whilst simultaneously working more hours. To top this off, safeguards to prevent dangerous hours being forced on doctors are being removed. The intention for these removals is clear.

Doctors already work irregular shift patterns that include night shifts and evening shifts. They already work longer hours than they are contracted to do so for free on a regular basis because so many departments are understaffed and under pressure. But doctors are human too. They need things like sleep, food and social lives. You cannot increase routine Monday to Friday 9-5 services with an already underfunded and understaffed workforce by magic.

Seriously. I'm disappointed people even agree with 2700's position.

 

[Kathian]

It really is an insane idea; massively increase actual headcount without actually increasing the size of the workforce.

Science!

Hunt doesn't seem to be able to work with people particularly well, hes a pointless minister.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

What about them? They're not my responsibility.

It's this kind of attitude that is causing the problems in the first place 'fuck everyone else, I'm alright'.

 

[Ian]

It really is an insane idea; massively increase actual headcount without actually increasing the size of the workforce.

Science!

Hunt doesn't seem to be able to work with people particularly well, hes a pointless minister.

Hunt believes in curing cancer with water. Science has nothing to do with it.

 

[Ian]

What about them? They're not my responsibility.

Nice attitude.

 

[hohoXD123]

It;'s "shit" because the current government is gutting the fuck out of it and making it shit. There's no way this all isn't on purpose.

My company started offering private healthcare this year, I'm yet to take it out of principle. I'll stick by the NHS to the very end.

EDIT:


This however I agree with. If you're going to be a doctor you surely understand going in what the kind of working days are going to be? And by that I purely mean working saturdays/sundays. Now I still don't think we should be making doctors work >5 days a week like the rest of the regular workforce. Just that I don't see the weekends as a premium, like 2700 said; people don't choose when they fall ill/have injuries.

Well yeah, I don't think there's a single doctor who didn't expect to work nights, weekends, or bank holidays, or christmas, or easter, or every other holiday that other people take for granted. That doesn't mean that working on these days/times aren't generally classed as unsociable, hence I don't see why anyone should be paid the same for working 3am on a Sunday and working 2pm on a Monday, regardless of what profession they're in. People can fall ill on any day of the week, so doctors are obligated to work on any day of the week already.

 

[MrChom]

I'm no longer sure what it's going to take for the British public to actually take up their pitchforks/torches and get rid of some of the real bastards in the commons.

They've sold off everything we owned bit by bit. They've driven us into an ever worsening spiral where the haves get further from the have nots. They, in some cases, literally stole from the tax payer and very little was done. Hunt remains just one of the pustulent boils of the body politic that needs a good lancing.

We have a government that pretends to not understand basic economics so that it can carry out what it wants to do in cutting, cutting, and cutting some more. Hell, it's now so bad they sold off the Royal Mail, and even Thatcher wouldn't go that far in her quest to eliminate the state.

It's the 80s all over again with the NHS neglected, the unions being crippled, vital support being taken away from families and the disabled, privatisation of the last of what we own for PEANUTS, and a concerted effore on behalf of some to remove us from the one thing that keeps us relevant...our presence in the EU.

So good on the Junior Doctors for standing up for themselves, and hopefully we only see more of this kind of thing in any affected industry in future.

 

[SuperBowser]

This however I agree with. If you're going to be a doctor you surely understand going in what the kind of working days are going to be? And by that I purely mean working saturdays/sundays. Now I still don't think we should be making doctors work >5 days a week like the rest of the regular workforce. Just that I don't see the weekends as a premium, like 2700 said; people don't choose when they fall ill/have injuries.

I've been a doctor for 4 years. I work hard and love my job. I regularly work strange shift patterns including evenings and nights and I fully expected this when I chose this career. However, I also expect to be treated like a human being rather than a slave and to be remunerated fairly. Doctors in the UK are paid less than their equivalents in similar Western countries and have already seen a huge fall in pay in real terms over the past 6 years. I don't know what else you want. Do you really want doctors to receive an additional 10%-40% pay cut with more hours and more unsocial hours?


Source of data:
Junior doctors’ earnings: NHS Employers Pay Circulars 2009-2015
General population and Financial & Insurance sector earnings: Office for National Statistics
Consumer Price Index (CPI): Office for National Statistics
Predicted pay and inflation data for 2015 and 2016: Bank of England)



The NHS already offers robust emergeny services out of hours. I'd love for there to be improvements to services in weekends. However, Mr Hunt's proposals will make no improvements. They will only drive doctors out the country and pave the way for privatisation. The NHS has had its funding reduced in real terms over the past 5 years while costs of treatment, inflation and demands have increased.

 

[British Monsoon]

What about them? They're not my responsibility.

They're not your responsibility, but they should be your concern - unless you're lacking in basic human empathy, then, by all means, carry on.

 

[Dopus]

It seems to have been lost within the debate that the total amount allocated to junior doctor pay is not changing, there is no cut happening here.

I'm not entirely sure why every hour on Saturday should continue to be classed as unsociable and worthy of extra pay. Just because it's normal for the wider population doesn't mean that should be true for doctors. Healthcare is naturally a 24hour, 7 day service, people can't choose to fall ill or suffer injury between 9-5 on a Mon-Fri and some may want to have appointments that fall on the weekend. Hospitals shouldn't have to pay a premium on Saturdays to keep services available for such people. Junior doctors have to show more flexibility with their weekly working pattern.

This however I agree with. If you're going to be a doctor you surely understand going in what the kind of working days are going to be? And by that I purely mean working saturdays/sundays. Now I still don't think we should be making doctors work >5 days a week like the rest of the regular workforce. Just that I don't see the weekends as a premium, like 2700 said; people don't choose when they fall ill/have injuries.

Complete and utter nonsense. First and foremost, the very fact that pay protection has been removed in the new contract would seriously suggest that some Junior doctors will receive a paycut. The only reason the basic pay is going up is due to the loss of banding payments. Trainees in psychiatry, haematology and neurology, would receive the on-call availability allowance but it only applies to them. Flexible pay premia will not apply to new Juniors and unsocial hours will be lower as they have changed what the actual unsocial hours are. Hunt has stated that Junior doctors will receive pay protection, this however only applies to current Juniors and not new ones. As a result, most Junior doctors will in fact be receiving a cut from the current contract.

Another issue is when specialising. To quote the BMA.

Approximately 54 per cent of junior doctors take a non-linear path through their training, for example because they take time out to do medical research or academic study, or re-train in a new specialty bringing their previous experience with them.

Although doctors choosing to retrain in defined shortage specialties may receive a pay premium, those who retrain in other specialties would no longer see their pay protected when they re-train. Instead, they would drop back to the bottom of the payscale.

As far as unsocial hours are concerned, I'm not sure either of you understand the implication of it. Humans are social creatures. If a doctor has a family then do you really expect them to have to work more and see them less? How about the NHS already being underfunded and understaffed? Doctors already put in more hours than they are contracted to that are not paid for.

Nobody can predict when somebody is ill; but the NHS is already 7 days a week. Under the new contract safeguards will be removed meaning that the hospitals they are working at will no longer monitor hours worked. It's not unusual for doctors to work beyond their contracted hours but this will only increase the chance of tired doctors putting patient safety at risk. You are getting an understaffed workforce to work more hours for less pay. It is dangerous.

Despite what the government has said, this is a cost cutting exercise and you're eating it all up.

 

[Cindres]

I'm confused at when I ever agreed that doctors should work more and be paid the same or less. I said they shouldn't have to do more than 5 days like the regular work force. I believe in them working the same hours as say, your average office worker.

I believe basically everyone who quoted me got me all wrong and/or put words in my mouth because I'm on your side.

 

[Sulik2]

So someone is about to get a huge kickback from some private corporations if they can break the NHS and force the UK into a nightmarish private health care system like the USA has seems like what is happening here.