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[GhostWriter24]

fuck this country...

 

[A.E Suggs]

I can see why this might seem like a valid reason to invoke the slippery slope, by I often find such an invocation disingenuous. I'd be more open to the notion that political correctness is running amok when we're discussing a more consequential change. As it stands, we're talking about something that happened three years ago the probably had next to no impact on the UNC campus, but was latched onto simply because it sounds like something that anti-PC advocates can get behind as egregious.

Well ok I guess that does change the situation a little. However this whole thing reminds me of the time when someone was offended over the word whiteout years ago and wanted a name change, from that time forward I swear that people just try and find anything offensive.

 

[Stet]

Because you haven't established that Policeman, Freshman, or Chairman arose before it was the case in ENGLISH that "man" refers to male and "woman" to female. Unless you can, all this business about 13th century meanings and police dogs is so much irrelevant hand-waving that does not establish the FOUNDATION of anything.

They haven't established that because it's not true. "Man" started referring to males and not females back in the 11th century, and "Freshman" didn't exist as a word until the 17th.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Woooooow-men..

 

[Htown]

*sighs at all of the knee-jerking*

This seems perfectly fine.

Femmeworth
Member
(Today, 12:55 PM)

Your name is not gender inclusive. Please change it.

Also, "member" is a patriarchal appellation implying that only those with a penis are worthy members of a social group. Mods should change "Member" to "Associate."

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Well ok I guess that does change the situation a little. However this whole thing reminds me of the time when someone was offended over the word whiteout years ago and wanted a name change, from that time forward I swear that people just try and find anything offensive.

I'll be happy to stand corrected, but this sounds like something that was in actuality a joke that some perhaps erroneously thought was a legitimate request.

 

[Gannd]

But are you hurt by it being removed? If someone is upset over the term freshman because it offends them, changing it to a more specific term doesn't really affect anyone negatively, does it?

I'm upset about the change. It negatively affects me. Change it back.

 

[Stet]

I'm upset about the change. It negatively affects me. Change it back.

In what way? I'm seriously curious. Also, you have to demonstrate that the new term is what negatively affects you, as it's pretty difficult to prove hardship based on not being able to call someone else something.

 

[Dark Octave]

Change "student" as well then.

I'm offended because it contains the word "stud" in it.

 

[Metrotab]

In what way? I'm seriously curious.

Isn't freshman a culturally iconic term in the States? Like "Fuck yeah, next year we're going to be college freshmen!" Or "Ooooh I remember my freshman days" I only have anecdotal experience for this from online friends. I could see someone getting ever so slightly bummed by not being an official freshman anymore, or seeing this word mischaracterised as gender exclusive language.

Not like students will really care what the official administration does.

 

[A.E Suggs]

I'll be happy to stand corrected, but this sounds like something that was in actuality a joke that some perhaps erroneously thought was a legitimate request.

It actually could have been, but my problem is more that it gives more people the idea that they can just do things like this and you know everything brought up isn't going to be a good reason for it.

Femmeworth
Member
(Today, 12:55 PM)

Your name is not gender inclusive. Please change it.

Also, "member" is a patriarchal appellation implying that only those with a penis are worthy members of a social group. Mods should change "Member" to "Associate."

LOL,The word femminist should also be stuck from the books.

 

[Atrus]

Because you haven't established that Policeman, Freshman, or Chairman arose before it was the case in ENGLISH that "man" refers to male and "woman" to female. Unless you can, all this business about 13th century meanings and police dogs is so much irrelevant hand-waving that does not establish the FOUNDATION of anything.

I think you are being intentionally obtuse. These ARE English words but the formation of these words has a basis in the preceding foundations like the basis of a lot of English language.

"Man" is also the categorical term for 'human' in the English language by the way. Darwin's Descent of Man does not mean Descent of males and that was a work in English.

If there is a lack of understanding of the English language, it is on your end.

 

[Tawpgun]

War on Men

 

[Steve Youngblood]

It actually could have been, but my problem is more that it gives more people the idea that they can just do things like this and you know everything brought up isn't going to be a good reason for it.

I don't really think it gives anyone any ideas. I could be wrong and will be happy for someone in the know to tell the whole story, but my suspicion is that the change had nothing to do with outraged students/parents and everything to do with someone in an administrative position randomly suspecting that it's an insignificant change that might make a minor, positive impact in terms of being progressive.

 

[Metrotab]

I don't really think it gives anyone any ideas. I could be wrong and will be happy for someone in the know to tell the whole story, but my suspicion is that the change had nothing to do with outraged students/parents and everything to do with someone in an administrative position randomly suspecting that it's an insignificant change that might make a minor, positive impact in terms of being progressive.

Once again, is 'freshman' a repressive term?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Once again, is 'freshman' a repressive term?

I don't know. I don't really care either way for that matter. However, apparently, either someone thought it was or someone suspected that someone else might think it was, and they made the change after concluding that there are other terms to describe "first-year student" besides freshman and that making the change was probably of little consequence.

 

[A.E Suggs]

I don't really think it gives anyone any ideas. I could be wrong and will be happy for someone in the know to tell the whole story, but my suspicion is that the change had nothing to do with outraged students/parents and everything to do with someone in an administrative position randomly suspecting that it's an insignificant change that might make a minor, positive impact in terms of being progressive.

Well since you put it that way I guess i'll step down, its not that i'm against the name change here just moreso that people can get offended over simple words now more than in the past. That said I don't know everyones history on what offends someone so it may be a legit concern that i'm not aware of.

 

[Game-Biz]

Well, I'm deeply offended that in my Spanish class they are trying to shove down this "masculine" and "feminine" sexist bullshit down my throat. Every word should be gender neutral (when I told my teacher this she seriously said that it can't be changed because its "tradition" and it's just the way it is - no really), and I'll be damned if I'm graded lower on my tests because I refuse to add an "-o" or "-a" at the end of every noun just to appease fucking sexist cave men in fucking 2012.

 

[Byakuya769]

Next we need to drop "woMAN."

 

[Stet]

Well, I'm deeply offended that in my Spanish class they are trying to shove down this "masculine" and "feminine" sexist bullshit down my throat. Every word should be gender neutral (when I told my teacher this she seriously said that it can't be changed because its "tradition" and it's just the way it is - no really), and I'll be damned if I'm graded lower on my tests because I refuse to add an "-o" or "-a" at the end of every noun just to appease fucking sexist cave men in fucking 2012.

I really don't think this is the same thing.

 

[spiderman123]

"Man's rule over this earth."

 

[mclaren777]

This shit is out of control.

.

 

[eznark]

In what way?

It's offensive to me that you keep questioning his being offended by this change. I'd like you to stop.

 

[Tawpgun]

My only question is who is complaining about it? It's like a solution without a problem.

 

[gutter_trash]

frosh

I like this

 

[Mully]

A lot of colleges are doing this now. Instead of the Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior, it's First-Year, Second-Year, etc.

It's whatever. I'm a Fourth-Year Sophomore.

 

[Game-Biz]

I really don't think this is the same thing.

Yeah I know it isn't. I slightly drunk.

 

[Stet]

It's offensive to me that you keep questioning his being offended by this change. I'd like you to stop.

Will do. Thanks for explaining nothing.

 

[vas_a_morir]

I don't think so. The plural of "freshman" is "freshmen," not "freshmans."

Checkmate.

Will do. Thanks for explaining nothing.

Checkmate.

 

[rando14]

My alma mater has been calling freshman "first-years" for years now. Not really a big deal

 

[Tawpgun]

My alma mater has been calling freshman "first-years" for years now. Not really a big deal

You go to Hogwarts?

 

[A.E Suggs]

A lot of colleges are doing this now. Instead of the Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior, it's First-Year, Second-Year, etc.

It's whatever. I'm a Fourth-Year Sophomore.

Well japan I think has always done this with highschool and middles school.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

WHY IS IT HISTORY?

4LYFE!

This level of PC stupidity is aneurysm inducing.

 

[Fox Mulder]

UNC is just trying to get news away from their embarassing academic fraud.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Good.

Just use 'fresher' like we do in the UK.

thats enough out of you


just call them first years i guess.

 

[Gannd]

In what way? I'm seriously curious. Also, you have to demonstrate that the new term is what negatively affects you, as it's pretty difficult to prove hardship based on not being able to call someone else something.

My right to be offended supersedes your right to a response.

I know that Universities have a ton of people who make their livings finding out new ways to be offended (We call them liberal arts majors) and I'm offended as a STEM major and business school graduate student that I have had to subsidize their bullshit.

 

[Gannd]

Well, I'm deeply offended that in my Spanish class they are trying to shove down this "masculine" and "feminine" sexist bullshit down my throat. Every word should be gender neutral (when I told my teacher this she seriously said that it can't be changed because its "tradition" and it's just the way it is - no really), and I'll be damned if I'm graded lower on my tests because I refuse to add an "-o" or "-a" at the end of every noun just to appease fucking sexist cave men in fucking 2012.

You're kidding, right? I hope.

 

[truly101]

I don't know if you guys really understand the implications. Redshirt 1st year just doesn't have the same ring to it.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

My right to be offended supersedes your right to a response.

I know that Universities have a ton of people who make their livings finding out new ways to be offended (We call them liberal arts majors) and I'm offended as a STEM major and business school graduate student that I have had to subsidize their bullshit.

Right. I can't fathom how much of your tuition dollars went into subsidizing paying that one person to go through documentation and hit Ctrl-H -> Find "freshman" -> Replace "First Year Student." What a colossal waste of time and money.

 

[vas_a_morir]

Seriously, this is stupid. UNC offers a masters program in White Knighthood.

 

[Gannd]

Right. I can't fathom how much of your tuition dollars went into subsidizing paying that one person to go through documentation and hit Ctrl-H -> Find "freshman" -> Replace "First Year Student." What a colossal waste of time and money.

My tuition and fees subsidizes the whole fields of study that make this thing even a "thing" to begin with.

 

[Stet]

My right to be offended supersedes your right to a response.

I know that Universities have a ton of people who make their livings finding out new ways to be offended (We call them liberal arts majors) and I'm offended as a STEM major and business school graduate student that I have had to subsidize their bullshit.

I'm impressed you were able to spend 8 years in university and still be so out of touch with university.

 

[Zoe]

Well japan I think has always done this with highschool and middles school.

Er... it's not really fair to compare completely different language families like that.

 

[TUROK]

This is beyond silly, but I'm not going to burst a blood vessel over it. In the end, it's insignificant. Let them change it.

 

[vas_a_morir]

My tuition and fees subsidizes the whole fields of study that make this thing even a "thing" to begin with.

My tuition went to building a new student exercise/recreation center, and that place was in no-way related to my career as a shut-in fatass leech. So I feel your pain.

 

[Reuenthal]

Stupidity.

 

[Wallach]

They should be more interested in changing these terms because they're fucking dumb. It's part of the most mundane, it should at the very least be intuitively informative. First-year, second-year, etc. are much better for that purpose.

 

[Femmeworth]

Also, "member" is a patriarchal appellation implying that only those with a penis are worthy members of a social group. Mods should change "Member" to "Associate."

Well, NeoGAF is technically a patriarchy.

No, it doesn't. You can't please everyone. That's what businesses and universities don't understand. Some people are going to be offended no matter what decisions are made. Making widespread change to appease a small group of people that are offended over something is never a good idea.

Come now, this change is completely within reason.

 

[Ra\/en]

I'm tired of this PC bullshit. Seriously.

 

[Dude Abides]

I think you are being intentionally obtuse. These ARE English words but the formation of these words has a basis in the preceding foundations like the basis of a lot of English language.

"Man" is also the categorical term for 'human' in the English language by the way. Darwin's Descent of Man does not mean Descent of males and that was a work in English.

If there is a lack of understanding of the English language, it is on your end.

To the contrary, you attempted to import an anachronistic usage of the suffix "man" to explain the purported gender neutrality of a term that arose at the time when the suffix was understood to refer to males, but you failed. You've provided no counter whatsoever to the basic point that, whatever "man" meant in antiquity, at the time the word in question was coined, "man" referred to males, not females.

That it was common practice in Darwin's time to use the male gendered form to refer to humanity as a collective is neither here nor there, since that is not the sense it's being used with freshman.