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Vatican fires priest after he comes out as gay

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N

NotTheGuyYouKill

Member
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-vatican-gay-priest-1.3255596

The Vatican dismissed a priest from his post in a Holy See office on Saturday after he told a newspaper he was gay and urged the Catholic Church to change its stance on homosexuality.

Monsignor Krzystof Charamsa was removed from his position at the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican's doctrinal arm where he had worked since 2003, a statement said.

Charamsa, 43, and a Polish theologian, announced he was gay and had a partner in a long interview with Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper on Saturday.

He later held a news conference with his partner, a Spanish man, and gay activists at a Rome restaurant. They had planned a demonstration in front of the Vatican but changed the venue several hours before it was due to have started.

The Vatican said Charamsa's dismissal had nothing to do with his comments on his personal situation, which it said "merit respect."

But it said giving the interview and the planned demonstration was "grave and irresponsible" given their timing on the eve of a synod of bishops who will discuss family issues, including how to reach out to gays.

It said his actions would subject the synod, which Pope Francis is due to open on Sunday, to "undue media pressure".

The issue of homosexuality and the Church has dominated the aftermath of the Pope's visit to the United States last week.

In Saturday's interview, Charamsa said his partner had helped him come to terms with his sexuality and knew he would have to give up the priesthood, although the Vatican statement made no reference to this outcome.

"It's time for the Church to open its eyes about gay Catholics and to understand that the solution it proposes to them — total abstinence from a life of love — is inhuman," he was quoted as saying.

The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is not a sin but that homosexual acts are.

The Vatican has been embarrassed by controversy over the pope's meeting with Kim Davis, a Kentucky county clerk who went to jail in September for refusing to honour a U.S. Supreme Court ruling and issue same-sex marriage licences.

The Vatican said on Friday that "the only real audience" the pope had during his visit to Washington was with a small group that included a gay couple.
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B

bluelightningduo

Member
"Charamsa, 43, and a Polish theologian, announced he was gay and had a partner in a long interview with Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper on Saturday.

He later held a news conference with his partner, a Spanish man, and gay activists at a Rome restaurant."

Wouldn't he have been "fired" even if it was a heterosexual relationship? Vows and all that.
 
S

Skellig Gra

Member
bluelightningduo said:
"Charamsa, 43, and a Polish theologian, announced he was gay and had a partner in a long interview with Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper on Saturday.

He later held a news conference with his partner, a Spanish man, and gay activists at a Rome restaurant."

Wouldn't he have been "fired" even if it was a heterosexual relationship? Vows and all that.
Click to expand...
Yeah in this instance it doesn't matter who he had sex with. Don't swear a vow if you can't uphold it.
 
A

Althane

Member
Priest fired for being unpriestly.

Doesn't matter if he's gay or not, not following the rules of your job, dude.
 
B

braves01

Banned
bluelightningduo said:
"Charamsa, 43, and a Polish theologian, announced he was gay and had a partner in a long interview with Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper on Saturday.

He later held a news conference with his partner, a Spanish man, and gay activists at a Rome restaurant."

Wouldn't he have been "fired" even if it was a heterosexual relationship? Vows and all that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, sounds like an opportunist vow breaker to me, what with the conference and all that. Could have resigned or fought harder for gay rights from within or whatever, but he wanted to make a show of it.
 
C

CrunchyFrog

Member
bluelightningduo said:
"Charamsa, 43, and a Polish theologian, announced he was gay and had a partner in a long interview with Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper on Saturday.

He later held a news conference with his partner, a Spanish man, and gay activists at a Rome restaurant."

Wouldn't he have been "fired" even if it was a heterosexual relationship? Vows and all that.
Click to expand...

Yeah that can be grounds for dismissal regardless of sexual orientation. Celibacy is a pretty major aspect of the vow to priesthood and I see that changing much later than the Church's views on homosexual acts, if ever. Thread title is a bit misleading
 
M

MartyStu

Member
I think the title should be changed.

The priest was not fired for being gay. And I do not doubt that he COULD be fired for being gay, but that is not what happened here.
 
D

DoktorEvil

Banned
bluelightningduo said:
"Charamsa, 43, and a Polish theologian, announced he was gay and had a partner in a long interview with Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper on Saturday.

He later held a news conference with his partner, a Spanish man, and gay activists at a Rome restaurant."

Wouldn't he have been "fired" even if it was a heterosexual relationship? Vows and all that.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the timing of it is suspect as fuck.

I would like to believe this is the first time that those Bishops just found out he wasnt following his vows.
 
G

ghostjoke

Banned
This is Catholicism. While I'm not going to pretend like the Vatican aren't peeved that there is a gay priest making headlines, this wasn't going to fly, regardless of what he was being intimate with.
 
S

ScatheZombie

Member
Not fired, dismissed. Which, in this case, is basically a demotion. He's still a priest within the church, they just took away his station. "Fired" would be more akin to excommunication.

And not for being gay, but for publicly announcing breaking his vows.

"Vatican demotes priest for breaking rules."
 
T

Tertullian

Member
Clearly the Church is going to retain a priest who lives in a same-sex relationship and publically opposed Catholic teaching. Clearly.
 
F

faridmon

Member
Don't see the problem. He broke a vow, which means that he will be demoted. Also when you decide to become a priest, then you have to get your life in order that actually goes along with the job description.
 
Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Frontline on PBS did a really great documentary called Secrets of the Vatican. It's on Netflix in the US, worth a watch. After seeing that, this isn't all that shocking.

People always say new dictators and new Popes are more forward thinking than their predecessors. It rarely actually means anything.
 
B

bonesmccoy

Banned
Grizzlyjin said:
Frontline on PBS did a really great documentary called Secrets of the Vatican. It's on Netflix in the US, worth a watch. After seeing that, this isn't all that shocking.

People always say new dictators and new Popes are more forward thinking than their predecessors. It rarely actually means anything.
Click to expand...

Him losing his job at the CDF has nothing to do with the Pope.
 
D

Deleted member 125677

Unconfirmed Member
The Vatican continues to do their utmost to kill every illusion about having taken a progressive turn with the latest pope.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Member
Roboleon said:
The Vatican continues to do their utmost to kill every illusion about having taken a progressive turn with the latest pope.
Click to expand...

The priest's comments are still against the vows they take. Abstinence is something they all have to adhere to, sexuality isn't a factor.
 
M

Mariolee

Member
In a weird way, this is almost (though very loosely) like a reverse of the Kim Davis situation. He broke his vows that were required of him to do his job (regardless of whethere he was homosexual or not, he broke celibacy) and was demoted. Kim Davis broke the law that was required of her to do her job except the difference is she made a big fuss out of it while the priest knew what was going to come and took it wholeheartedly and instead used it as athe foundation for his new stance in life.

This part of the article in particular was interesting:

The Vatican said Charamsa's dismissal had nothing to do with his comments on his personal situation, which it said "merit respect."

But it said giving the interview and the planned demonstration was "grave and irresponsible" given their timing on the eve of a synod of bishops who will discuss family issues, including how to reach out to gays.

It said his actions would subject the synod, which Pope Francis is due to open on Sunday, to "undue media pressure".

The issue of homosexuality and the Church has dominated the aftermath of the Pope's visit to the United States last week.

In Saturday's interview, Charamsa said his partner had helped him come to terms with his sexuality and knew he would have to give up the priesthood, although the Vatican statement made no reference to this outcome.

"It's time for the Church to open its eyes about gay Catholics and to understand that the solution it proposes to them — total abstinence from a life of love — is inhuman," he was quoted as saying.
Click to expand...

I had no idea a synod was coming and am looking forward to the responses that come from it. The important thing here is the Vatican respecting Charamsa's personal orientation, which is against the pretty loaded and disingenuous thread title. It's just that it was unprofessional to put it out like that especially right before such an important synod as well as during the whole homoesexual misleading controversy between the Pope and Kim Davis this last week. This most likely to the Vatican would have been preferrably handled as a private resignation (though is there such a thing in Catholic priesthood?) so it wouldn't have come to this especially since he knew how the Vatican would have to react.
 
P

PatBot

Member
faridmon said:
Don't see the problem. He broke a vow, which means that he will be demoted. Also when you decide to become a priest, then you have to get your life in order that actually goes along with the job description.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what he did by coming out
 
L

luxarific

Nork unification denier
CrunchyFrog said:
Yeah that can be grounds for dismissal regardless of sexual orientation. Celibacy is a pretty major aspect of the vow to priesthood and I see that changing much later than the Church's views on homosexual acts, if ever. Thread title is a bit misleading
Click to expand...

I think it's the other way around - we will see married priests (they actually already exist in some denominations with allegiance to Rome, such as the Eastern Catholics) before we see gays fully accepted by the Catholic church.
 
D

DoktorEvil

Banned
Roboleon said:
The Vatican continues to do their utmost to kill every illusion about having taken a progressive turn with the latest pope.
Click to expand...

This priest was demoted for breaking his vows. Read the article.

Against, people are delusional or ignorant at best if they believe Pope Francis is "progressive".

A synod however is a big deal. It usually results in Canonical Law changes. I'm happy that there's a discussion occurring in the Vatican that would be to the benefit of Gay Catholics.

But, I'm worried that it might lead to a schism.
 
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