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[VG247] I’m excited to play Starfield, but that 30fps news took the wind out of my sails

Bkdk

Member
Todd howard's games are always meant to be played on PC, playing their games on console will only be around 40% of the experience at best. Their game design is always focused on giving player a massive playground, setting the lore and give the gamers a large amount of stuff to modify with.
 
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Phase

Member
Shonda Rhimes GIF by NETFLIX


Play on PC then and rebel against the creative vision.
There are so many threads about fps that it's crazy. It just shows how many here are purely console players. If you have the money and you're a gamer a PC is worth it 1000x over.
 
Worlds most powerful console can only do exclusive AAA games at 30 fps......Xbox is writing their own jokes now.


Season 8 Wtf GIF by The Office
Have you checked minium PC CPU requirements for Starfield ? Go check. It needs i7 6900k minimum.

Starfield too ambitious for current gen consoles plus Engine is super heavy on cpu. There's no open world game out there which has scale of Starfield with same level of detail and content packed in.

Plague tale was linear and it was 30 at launch. They added 60fps patch later, maybe Starfield will do same down the line?
 

ANDS

King of Gaslighting
. . .then play on PC. Like seriously. The expectation that this was going to be 2K+ at 60 is silly. Like it would have been great if so, but that's not really what this studio is known for. Even on PC, it is likely that people are going to have to bruteforce this thing to 60 (honestly I'm going for a smooth 40, though FO76, which is even worse performing than FO4, can be bruteforced, though you will still get frame drops).
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
None of them are PERSISTENT, buddy. Data of them will be deleted go give air for other computations the CU does and storage keeps. When i put Sermons of Vivec on top of another in a spesific corner of Breezehome, after i come back a week later , they are EXACTLY in the order and the place where i put them. That is the strength and the weakness of Creation Engine, always has been.
Persistent only means each object writes its x/y/z coordinates into a “text file”, bloating up the save file. That’s nothing really computationally heavy lifting. If you then have to render that stuff it’s the same load on the cpu / gpu as rendering a 500.000 poly model or loading the stack of barrels in crysis.

Or am I missing something here?
 
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Js562

Member
season 4 nie out of 10 GIF

I can't tell the difference. If it plays well I don't care about the fps as long as it doesn't mess up how I play. To each their own though just play on pc and if that matters that much shit ain't that hard.
 

OceanGaming

Member
Persistent only means each object writes its x/y/z coordinates into a “text file”, bloating up the save file. That’s nothing really computationally heavy lifting. If you then have to render that stuff it’s the same load on the cpu / gpu as rendering a 500.000 poly model or loading the stack of barrels in crysis.

Or am I missing something here?

It's absolutely NOT just a text file, let me give you and example of how it works.

You, the player, go into Crassius Curio's mansion and steal his signed "Lusty Argonian Maid Premium Edition" from him. You bring it to your home and put it near your bed on top of a table next to a bowl of apples. You go out on your adventures for an in-game week and save the game. Next time you open the game, you decide to first drop all your loot in your house first. You enter your house and go upstairs to your bed. You know notice that the book you stole is gone and there is a note there. You read the note and it says "Next time you steal from me will be your last. Signed, Curio. PS: Me and my boys ate all your apples as well get f***ed".

Now let's see what happens behind the scenes between you enter your house and see the book stolen and apples eaten.

Papyrus Virtual Machine (Scripting language for all Bethesda games in the last decade) starts to check things:
-Game checks whether Curio's book is still in your house after a week
-When it confirms it is , it RNGs whether thieves hired by Curio will enter your house and steal back that book.
Let's say game decided that Curio sends his thugs.

HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART FOR THE TOPIC:
- Game checks the location of said book.
- Thief NPCs break into your house and come upstairs (You can catch and kill them btw if you wait in your house (this isn't one of the examples of quest stage going from 110 to 120 and script updating to tell you your book has been stolen btw, BGS uses those type of questing scripts as well) but we'll assume you were away)
- Game despawns the book from your house and respawns in Curio's house with the exact coordiates it calculated to be it's "proper place" aka where you stole it in the first place.
- Game also checks whether the table that holds both the bowl of apples and the book has any other items
(For our case it finds the apples and runs the script that deletes those apples aka "We ate them" could be any other scenario)
- Game spawns the note at the exact coordinate where book used to be and it knows which way is up on the table so it does not look upside down when you bring your crosshair on it to take it.
- Thieves go out of your house and follow the path to Curio's house.


Are you getting my point now? It is not just a text file , this is part of a radiant quest and game NEEDS TO KNOW ALL THESE THINGS TO RUN THAT QUEST PROPERLY.

Does it ? Only sometimes, there is a reason the term "Bugthesda" exists.

Does Bethesda use this part of their engine enough? ABSOLUTELY NOT. In fact, Obsidian, at times, used this part of the engine better than Bethesda used in their games.

I hope this demonstrated what i mean by persistence to you.
 
The only place to play Bethesda games IMO is on PC. If you're playing them on consoles, you are doing it wrong.

30fps is unacceptable for me in 2023.
 
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cash_longfellow

Gold Member
Cool, i hope it is reflected in their review scores.

Spoiler: they will completely end up ignoring the performance just like always.
Yep…it’s Bethesda and its an open world game…must….score….95+….no matter what shit the game plays like.
 
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b0uncyfr0

Member
Personally this game is dead to me on a console. Everything i saw left a good impression but the 30 fps only mode really did kill it for me. Ive repeated it many times, i didnt buy an X to play at 30 fps, thats completely backwards and frankly, very fucking lazy from Bethesda.

This game is not visually groundbreaking, its a good looking game (in alot of areas) but that's it. It can run at 60 fps if they really aimed for it with some reconstruction tech - but i bet my left nut they didnt even try. They're trying to rush this out in some playable form and that means 30 fps for now. Luckily i have a PC, but i still dont condone such fuckery on consoles.

30 fps needs to be left behind in 2020 - console players deserve better.
 
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GigaBowser

The bear of bad news
Cruddin guy got no idea what hes talking abouts

Way rather play 30 fps with deepur systems than some cruddin shallows game at 60 fpors

oh-yeah-mrw.gif
 

Corndog

Banned
Games media can shut up 🤣

I agree it's disappointing(for console players) but games media all pissed their pants at a game this year that reaches the 10s in fps frequently...

They don't get the right to dump on the 30fps
Ya. I like Zelda but it definitely has frame rate issues.
 

sankt-Antonio

:^)--?-<
It's absolutely NOT just a text file, let me give you and example of how it works.

You, the player, go into Crassius Curio's mansion and steal his signed "Lusty Argonian Maid Premium Edition" from him. You bring it to your home and put it near your bed on top of a table next to a bowl of apples. You go out on your adventures for an in-game week and save the game. Next time you open the game, you decide to first drop all your loot in your house first. You enter your house and go upstairs to your bed. You know notice that the book you stole is gone and there is a note there. You read the note and it says "Next time you steal from me will be your last. Signed, Curio. PS: Me and my boys ate all your apples as well get f***ed".

Now let's see what happens behind the scenes between you enter your house and see the book stolen and apples eaten.

Papyrus Virtual Machine (Scripting language for all Bethesda games in the last decade) starts to check things:
-Game checks whether Curio's book is still in your house after a week
-When it confirms it is , it RNGs whether thieves hired by Curio will enter your house and steal back that book.
Let's say game decided that Curio sends his thugs.

HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART FOR THE TOPIC:
- Game checks the location of said book.
- Thief NPCs break into your house and come upstairs (You can catch and kill them btw if you wait in your house (this isn't one of the examples of quest stage going from 110 to 120 and script updating to tell you your book has been stolen btw, BGS uses those type of questing scripts as well) but we'll assume you were away)
- Game despawns the book from your house and respawns in Curio's house with the exact coordiates it calculated to be it's "proper place" aka where you stole it in the first place.
- Game also checks whether the table that holds both the bowl of apples and the book has any other items
(For our case it finds the apples and runs the script that deletes those apples aka "We ate them" could be any other scenario)
- Game spawns the note at the exact coordinate where book used to be and it knows which way is up on the table so it does not look upside down when you bring your crosshair on it to take it.
- Thieves go out of your house and follow the path to Curio's house.


Are you getting my point now? It is not just a text file , this is part of a radiant quest and game NEEDS TO KNOW ALL THESE THINGS TO RUN THAT QUEST PROPERLY.

Does it ? Only sometimes, there is a reason the term "Bugthesda" exists.

Does Bethesda use this part of their engine enough? ABSOLUTELY NOT. In fact, Obsidian, at times, used this part of the engine better than Bethesda used in their games.

I hope this demonstrated what i mean by persistence to you.
But it’s not happening in real time. The book is gone and a note placed as a output after loading the game. What computational stress does that do to a game while playing? None. The save file gets bigger and bigger with data for the object. I mean games 20 years ago did all that just fine, Ultima etc.
 

dotnotbot

Member
books GIF

Environments filled with actual 3D independent objects rather than static tableau. (I was trying to find the Gif of someone tanking the framerate by Fus-ro-dah on a pile of 1000 cheesewheels, but this one will have to do!)

Does it serve any gameplay purpose? Don't tell me having these independent objects with poorly implemented glitchy physics improves your immersion.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Have you checked minium PC CPU requirements for Starfield ? Go check. It needs i7 6900k minimum.

Starfield too ambitious for current gen consoles plus Engine is super heavy on cpu. There's no open world game out there which has scale of Starfield with same level of detail and content packed in.

Plague tale was linear and it was 30 at launch. They added 60fps patch later, maybe Starfield will do same down the line?
The minimum requirements are because the game/engine is unoptimized.

Have you seen the minimum requirements of Gollum, for example? Here it is for reference.

k3hjYBM.jpg


Games get bloated system requirements all the time because they are not properly optimized and, therefore, require a beefier than normal system to bruteforce it.
 
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The minimum requirements are because the game/engine is unoptimized.

Have you seen the minimum requirements of Gollum, for example? Here it is for reference.

k3hjYBM.jpg


Games get bloated system requirements all the time because they are not properly optimized and, therefore, require a beefier than normal system to bruteforce it.
Starfield scale and size justify its system requirements.
 

Vlodril

Member
People seriously saying you shouldn't play this Microsoft first party game on their own console and they should get it on another platform with a straight face.. How is that even remotely ok?
 

Vlodril

Member
Microsoft also releases on PC day 1 lol. Fuck is you talking about

Yes i know. My point was that it's their flagship title right now and if you want decent performance people are advising others to get it elsewhere and not on their own console.
 
I hope last of us 3 is 30 fps - I hope naughty dog prioritizes pushing the technology past what we have seen is possible - imagine them being asked to do last of us 2 at 60 fps or 4k on ps4 - it wouldn’t be possible and we wouldn’t have gotten it otherwise.

Didn't you hear? Only Starfield can only do 30fps. Is ND gonna do universe simulation, item tracking, ragdoll physics, full customized ship and global illumination?

No? You mean they'll continue to do non-open world stuff with level changes so the CPU doesn't track where you place your item, so you can get it back in the same location 50 hours later?

Then my friend, get used to 60fps for sure. Because unless ND does things Starfield is doing, don't even try to dream.

30fps, ha, ha, ha!😂😂😂
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
The best looking current gen games have a proformance mode.

I didn't think I would need to explain that in a thread about a current gen game...
Because these are mostly last gen games duh.
There are so many threads about fps that it's crazy. It just shows how many here are purely console players. If you have the money and you're a gamer a PC is worth it 1000x over.
It’s not worth it at any price if you have the money. I have the money and pc and there are still many reasons to play on console.
It’s not just “got money then play on pc”. It’s ridiculous
 

Knightime_X

Member
Lol 30fps is now just "playable".

So many people here just don't get it. Everyone is complaining that next gen games don't look good enough while also complaining that they aren't running 60fps...

If they were running 60fps THEY WOULD LOOK LIKE XBOX ONE AND PS4 GAMES.
Really depends on how big of a hit is required to achieve 60fps.
If it's too big then I'll wait for a remaster or use \ get better hardware
 
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Raven77

Member
Really depends on how big of a hit is required to achieve 60fps.
If it's too big then I'll wait for a remaster or use \ get better hardware

If it's AAA game trying to achieve a high level of graphical fidelity there is no "depends on how big of a hit", it will always be a huge hit until they come up with more techniques like dlss.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
I was excited to play Rick Dangerous on the Commodore 64 but that requirement to have a Commodore 64 took the wind out of my sails.
 

Knightime_X

Member
If it's AAA game trying to achieve a high level of graphical fidelity there is no "depends on how big of a hit", it will always be a huge hit until they come up with more techniques like dlss.
What I'm saying is if vanilla game is 30fps I'll either wait for a better version and / or use hardware that CAN achieve 60fps.
 

SABRE220

Member
I see lots of people posting PC for me. Like you I will be getting it on PC but I'll be stunned if we get a good PC port from Bethesda. I'm expecting bad performance out of the gate or a shit ton of bugs
Bethesda games are literally made to be played on pc, the modders literally fix all the issues within a week and enhance the game far beyond the base version within a few months.
 

Mephisto40

Member
Didn't you hear? Only Starfield can only do 30fps. Is ND gonna do universe simulation
You do realise the "universe simulation" in this game is basically just

Press x to enter orbit

Fly around in a space mini game for 5 minutes

Press x to land

It's not "Universe simulation", it's basically just a lot of fallout maps with a space flight mini game in between
 

skit_data

Member
They should have an unlocked framerate mode, at least people lucky enough to own a TV with VRR might have a smoother experience. It's possible it simply dips to much under the VRR threshold, if that's the case I can see why they won' bother.
 
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Roxkis_ii

Member
Flight Simulator.
Returnal runs at 60
Ratchet & Clank has a performance mode
HFW expansion has a proformance mode
FF 16 has a proformance mode
Plaque’s Tales Requiem has a proformance
Street fight 6 has a proformance mode
Redfall will get a proformance mode

Like, would you perfer to play 30 fps games forever?
 
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