cinnamonandgravy
Member
when?
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When will a game surpass TLOU 2's combat? The combat feels next gen.
- Thread starter Represent.
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midnightAI
Member
thesplitsubject
Member
Not if it’s uncharted - it’s amazing how good the combat is in TLOU, and how bad it feels in Uncharted.
existensmaximum
Member
I agree OP. Or surpass it when it comes to animation and motion capture, shit.
Black_Mamba
Member
I don't like TLOU and Naughty Dog games in general, but the shooting and gore is very good indeed.
Resident Evil has better combat though. It's more fun, there's more variety and demands more skill from the player. RE4 in particular has the best gunplay ever, imo.
Resident Evil has better combat though. It's more fun, there's more variety and demands more skill from the player. RE4 in particular has the best gunplay ever, imo.
King Dazzar
Member
I so wish I could get what you get out of RE4R. The gunplay is OK at best. Hit detection isnt great. And when you do actually hit them it all feels samey and repetitive. The movement is slow and cumbersome to make it feel even worse. Sorry, maybe its just me at this time. But I'm seriously struggling to keep playing RE4R. The Last Of Us Pt2 has its issues, but the combat isnt one of them and is so much better than RE4R. Its in another league of excellence.
But hey, reviews really rate RE4R, so maybe its just me has it wrong...
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
No third-person action game with shooting and melee mechanics has surpassed it so far.
Resident Evil Remakes have good shooting but stealth and melee combat are subpar. The melee combat in Resident Evil Remake 4 doesn't feel nearly satisfying. Most of the time you're just stunning the enemies and using a quick button prompt, but in The Last of Us Part II, you have many options for melee combat that's way more versatile.
Resident Evil Remakes have good shooting but stealth and melee combat are subpar. The melee combat in Resident Evil Remake 4 doesn't feel nearly satisfying. Most of the time you're just stunning the enemies and using a quick button prompt, but in The Last of Us Part II, you have many options for melee combat that's way more versatile.
Guilty_AI
Member
Man, we really need a game like MGSV again, i've yet to find a stealth shooter/combat as fun and dynamic as that one.
elcapitano
Member
Probably not until Part 3 comes out in terms of third person shooters
I agree that on a audiovisual level it's in a league of its own, but the stealth/combat system cannot sustain dozen of hours of gameplay imho, and becomes pretty tiring by the end of the game.
It's just a little too simplistic imho, and not as tight and creative as what you may find in the best of the genre (like RE4 Remake or MGS5)
It's just a little too simplistic imho, and not as tight and creative as what you may find in the best of the genre (like RE4 Remake or MGS5)
cybertailor
Neo Member
bit suprised as well we're still stuck on last gen gameplay. I assumed advancements in motion matching would make TLOU 2 gameplay the norm going forward. Guess Middleware is just not there yet and it's just too work intensive to get enemies to behave this realistically without building your own, probably very expensive, system.
still wierd there isn't even a trailer of something looking as immersive when it comes to enemy combat. Haven't played TLOU2 in a while, but the only game that could somehow make combat feel believable even though
still wierd there isn't even a trailer of something looking as immersive when it comes to enemy combat. Haven't played TLOU2 in a while, but the only game that could somehow make combat feel believable even though
Yep. Actual depth to the combat versus fancy animations. MGSV is such a fantastic game. Too bad it was never properly finished.
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ProtoByte
Member
How is MGS5 "more deep" than TLOU2?
Level Design that offers multiple avenues for different forms of combat, stealth opportunities, or a mix of both.
Stealth offers far more tools than what TLoU offers and its AI reacts accordingly to those various tools.
More choice in tools for combat and movement. Using things such as horses, vehicles, crouching, camouflage, prone, shimming, just the many different ways you can move through the environment.
TLOU is very pretty, but absolutely shallow. Limited combat and stealth option, easily abuseable AI, linear and simplistic level design. The only thing that it exceeds at are graphical fidelity and animations. But animations don’t make a game deep.
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Generic
Member
This is actually not a guarantee since the game has randomized hit reaction.
Kabelly
Member
Red Dead 2 is contendor for one of the worst controlling third person games. Slow, dropped inputs. So many prompts that pop up that you'll sometimes shoot someone in the face. The shooting is okay. The melee is just awful. It's completely contexual and magnatized. You can not swing a knife or your fists unless you're actually near a person. No player agency. The game looks amazing. The gore looks amazing, but actually playing it can be frustrating at times. I've played on both PS4 and am actually currently playing on PC with gyro controls. Makes the shooting a lot more managable but the melee is just bunk.Rdr2 is pretty close (the shooting, the melee is a bit weak), superior for some things, inferior for others, dead island 2 has way better gore than both (maybe a bit more stylized) and a more more precise\localized damage.
Just talking about the look, tlou2 obviously is way more fluid to play.
You should really play darktide dude, first person wise it' probably the best meaty combat we had this gen.
What tlou2 does best it's looking\sounding villent in a super realistic way, sound design and gruesome micro-details, every dude who praise this game this much should be in a some FBI list
We need tlou3 for a nextgen overhaul, if they do another unchy or new ip they are not gonna use their violence tech because the tone is gonna be different.
TLOU2 is what a video game should feel like.
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Guilty_AI
Member
sendit
Member
We played two different games. Resident Evil combat does not have more variety than this:
GymWolf
Member
If you read my post again you can see how i specified that i was talking about the look, the gameplay is obviously more fluid in tlou2, hell i even said that the melee is weak.
But as a realistic, heavy, tps full of violent micro-details rdr2 is the closest thing to tlou2, there is a reason why games with euphoria engine and specifically rdr2 have the highest number of kill compilation on yt.
Hint, it's not because it plays wonderfully.
Also, rdr2 has sold 57 mil of copies and scored higher than tlou2, pretty sure that some pour souls enjoyed the super-heavy realistic gameplay even if it is clunky as hell semetimes (mostly during the action parts), you really don't get to decide how a videogame "should" feel, at best you can say how it should feel for you.
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gtabro
Member
When I tell people I like TLOU 2 they usually assume because of the story and pretty much that. And I have to explain I loved the gameplay (and visuals) as well - as someone who pretty much NEVER replays a game, or plays games on more than Normal (despite having solo beaten every boss in every FROM souls-like inc. Sekiro), TLOU 2 is the only game I
1. replayed
2. on the hardest difficulty
3. attempting a "no kill" run to prove the game doesn't "force you" to kill everyone and everything. And discovered because you can't knock people out you have to kill 2 people in Ellie's part to obtain an item to progress and feel much less like a monster, but also the SUPREME level design - everywhere you hide there is an NPC route that passes by and you will eventually be seen. This game is not CoD, you can't camp indefinitely in these maps.
TLOU 2 is amazing.
1. replayed
2. on the hardest difficulty
3. attempting a "no kill" run to prove the game doesn't "force you" to kill everyone and everything. And discovered because you can't knock people out you have to kill 2 people in Ellie's part to obtain an item to progress and feel much less like a monster, but also the SUPREME level design - everywhere you hide there is an NPC route that passes by and you will eventually be seen. This game is not CoD, you can't camp indefinitely in these maps.
TLOU 2 is amazing.
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King Dazzar
Member
I think Pt1 has limits for sure, but Pt2 I think is superb. Loved MGSV too. RE4R is just a lesson in frustration for me. You cant even shoulder swap in it. I just find it so clunky. Constantly fighting the aiming thumbstick. I was just playing it again now and the hit detection is just plain off at times. Sometimes its not clear whether I even hit the enemy or not. Maybe the original was better, but I dont see it being much worse. I got on better with the gunplay in RE2R...
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Anyone saying RE4 is going to have to put up some evidence. Because TLOU 2 runs circles around that combat
Kabelly
Member
I agree that the animations are what set it apart from most games, but I won't agree that the combat is close to TLOU2 at all.
The most fun I have in RDR2 is when I'm just exploring the world. Interacting with the people and just the constant awe I have with the graphics. When you actually enter a mission or just in general get in to a fire fight you feel like you're fighting the controls. Missions constantly remove your freedom. Arthur constantly puting aways the weapons on your horse. So many times I'll get a load out ready then all of a sudden the weapons are just gone. Back to the horse I go. Annoying. Plus back to melee you can't freely swing your weapon around like in almost all game before it. Even GTA V lets you. It's all contexual. . The animations are almost too meticulous, not realistic in my opinion. I want you to go open a drawer or a dresser. I guarantee you it doesn't take 5 seconds to grab soemthing.
edit: I played the first Red Dead for the first time last year and even that game feels better to play. Obviously a bit more gamey but still with more player agency than RDR2 has.
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fart town usa
Gold Member
Always struck me as Uncharted combat with a bit of inventory management. Clever camera placement for melee, nothing groundbreaking in terms of mechanics.
Black_Mamba
Member
RE has more enemies types, more weapons, boss battles and is much less scripted. And RE4 has much more of everything.
Lumpyoatmeal
Member
This is why I stopped playing almost all of these games and why I rather play something like Thief TDP instead.
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GymWolf
Member
The thing with mgs5 is that the stealth and the action are way more varied than tlou2 is ever gonna be because the game has so many gadgets and shit to play with and the levels are way larger so you can put more enemies and it's a modern game so modern tech, cameras, gadgts, robots, rocket punches etc.
Many people consider that type of gameplay superior because of that.
But the act of shooting enemies and seeing their reactions is pretty weak, you don't play mgs5 for the act of shooting enemies like you do in tlou2 or games with visceral combat or just good gunplay like destiny 2 or the forementioned darktide, i could not give less fucks about tlou2 story and characters but i'm still doing a third run just for the combat setpieces and because of how good it feels to fuck up jabronis in this game.
OP is talking more about the brutal feeling and the realistic depiction of violence more than gameplay variety, we all know that tlou2 is pretty limited because it's a very grounded and realistic game and there is just so much you can do with "realistic" post apocalyptic survival gameplay in term of variety, stuff like far cry or mgs5 are already way more bombastic than tlou2 so fo course they are more varied, same for re4 remake and its supernatural elements.
Mgs5 is a more complete and varied game in term of action stealth tps, no doubt about it.
Many people consider that type of gameplay superior because of that.
But the act of shooting enemies and seeing their reactions is pretty weak, you don't play mgs5 for the act of shooting enemies like you do in tlou2 or games with visceral combat or just good gunplay like destiny 2 or the forementioned darktide, i could not give less fucks about tlou2 story and characters but i'm still doing a third run just for the combat setpieces and because of how good it feels to fuck up jabronis in this game.
OP is talking more about the brutal feeling and the realistic depiction of violence more than gameplay variety, we all know that tlou2 is pretty limited because it's a very grounded and realistic game and there is just so much you can do with "realistic" post apocalyptic survival gameplay in term of variety, stuff like far cry or mgs5 are already way more bombastic than tlou2 so fo course they are more varied, same for re4 remake and its supernatural elements.
Mgs5 is a more complete and varied game in term of action stealth tps, no doubt about it.
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Lupin25
Member
Those are open-world games and Far Cry hasn’t been good since 3.
Guilty_AI
Member
The reason people bring up RE4 is because it has more enemy types, weapons, proper bosses, etc. We also bring up MGS5 for similar reasons + more open enviroment, tools, reactions to said tools and generally a lot more dynamic combat and ways to play the game.
As others pointed out, the only thing TLoU2 exceeds in is animation and visuals (even your OP seems to suggest so as you mostly talk about gore and animations). As far as combat itself goes it isn't particularly outstanding or anything. A person who isn't interested in hearing enemies gurgling after death or seeing the tongue hanging off a splattered head isn't gonna see much in TLoU2's combat.
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sendit
Member
Everything about RE is scripted....wtf are you playing?
GymWolf
Member
I was trying to mediate between the people liking tlou2 and mgs5 lovers
, both games have merits and different strong points.FC was just an example of sandboxy shooter\stealth type of game.
Little Chicken
Member
I wasn't impressed by the combat. It's the worst thing about the game.
GymWolf
Member
Again, i was talking about the look of the combat not how it play, not sure how can i be more clear than that.
The action gameplay is clunky and mission design is dogshit, the shooting parts are basically shooting galleries we all know that, this is why i posted a video to show how similarly violent and brutal they look gameplay aside.
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ProtoByte
Member
TLOU2 has this in spades. Anybody who's touched it knows this.
I understand the point, but just having more tools doesn't mean depth - especially when those tools overlap. At the end of the day, you've got guns, CQC, stuns and explosives/traps in both games. The coolest thing is how different Ellie and Abby are in this regard. TLOU enemies reacts as it should to what the player can do too though; and react to each other very well in some encounters too.
TLOU2 has crouching and prone movement; vehicles no. Horses a couple times in the campaign. That said, I don't think TLOU can be called shallow for not having more more more when it doesn't suit the game.
I don't find MGS5 AI to be very deep or impenetrable to cheesing. I don't remember cheesing anything in the difficulty I played TLOU in. This is largely due to the limited resources you have throughout the game, which changes the viability of a given approach.
"Linearity" is a requirement for how the game works, and hardly an insult (Deus Ex is "linear") and the design is "simple" in a beautiful, sensible way. Each space has different elevations/verticality, environmental objects that change the cover and stealth approach, and different enemy makeups. Just like MGS; only the density in TLOU2 is higher (partly) because you're working with less space most of the time.
I do note that you say TLOU and not TLOU2 specifically. The former is definitely more limited on the gameplay front, even though it did game feel pretty well. Part 2's entirely holistic.
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GymWolf
Member
Mechanically wise mp3 is a couple of universes better than rdr2, for almost everything else, rdr2 just had way better gore and a more updated euphoria engine version so imo it looks more realistic.
Both super close and creme de la creme of course.
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E-Cat
Member
That lighting is incredible. I wish the FF7 remake had lighting like that.
fart town usa
Gold Member
How about something like Propagation: Paradise Hotel for VR? $20 budget title. Manual reloads, stealth, flashlight that requires batteries, etc. Everything is done in real time.
Sounds like nothing special but it's absolutely brilliant. Simply opening a door or drawer with your hand, it's so freaking seamless and responsive that you will hold your breath in the hopes that you steady your hand that much more to avoid unnecessary noise.
Sounds like nothing special but it's absolutely brilliant. Simply opening a door or drawer with your hand, it's so freaking seamless and responsive that you will hold your breath in the hopes that you steady your hand that much more to avoid unnecessary noise.
GymWolf
Member
I wish the remake wasn't milking the corpse of OG FF7 with an episodic kingdom hearts fanfiction third level plot, but hey, we can't always have what we want.