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[Bitmap Frogs]

I’d be one to know people like sexy characters, I’m a pinup artist. and here’s no need to have every character designed that way. There’s plenty of games where it makes sense within the theme to just have attractive characters looking cool, with great storytelling i. e Nier Automata, and there’s plenty where it doesn’t. “violent drama grounded in reality” is one of those where it doesn’t.

There's a place of both and a "hot" female protagonist would work in a violent drama grounded in reality. Imagine a story about a bubblehead from a well-off family after the collapse. The loss of a privileged way of life would make things interesting. But at the end it's all about making choices that make sense for the story one wants to tell.

I think that what people tend to complain about is when it smells like there's an ulterior motive. Sometimes, you can feel an agenda behind the game. Have you played borderlands 3 recently? Excellent game but... not subtle when it comes to something like this.

 

[Enjay]

Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul are in no way ugly. They're not even Hollywood ugly. Hell, there's an argument to be made that, physiques aside, Dwayne Jihnson would be a downgrade in the looks department.

We're also not talking about "real women", even putting aside that these are artistic rendering.

These are an already idealised fictional representation of women, created as characters for a specific role in a narrative.

Now if these characters were designed to be 'plain janes', the average woman on the street, then that would be reflected in more than just the character model, and more specifically in the actresses that play and lend their appearence to them.

Sure, a lot of blame can be placed at the feet of poor image capture technology, but that is hard to take as a cessible explanation when the same technology has no such issues with getting the jawlines, facial structure and physics of the male actors right, and that the obvious artistic alterations never make them more feminine, or even as feminine as the previous enturely made by hand models of existing characters.

What's more, I reject the notion that ugly is more realistic. Of all the thousands of women i see on a regular basis, the dozens I work with day after day or hundred odd that live in my village, not one has the roided up monster body of Ellie, or the weird massive man Jaw of the lead from control.

Honestly, this arguement that realistic depictions of women have to be ugly or that women can't be beautiful and taken seriously, or that women that men find attractive detracts from a story, is just grossly sexist.

Beauty is an undeniable positive trait, and anyone arguing against it, or trying to shame the overwhelming majority of normal people who desire it, has serious issues. It's an unnatural and psychologically unhealthy view to have of the world and women.

And anyways let's be real, if amc could've afforded dwayne johnson and harry styles, they would've got them.

 

[V2Tommy]

Imagine demanding videogame girls be hotter.

Doing the imagine _____ _______ thing makes you sound like a retarded Reddit parrot.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Gamers were enraged when Concerned Mothers and religious activists and shark-lawyers like Jack Thompson tried to censor stuff from videogames and enforce their particular agenda on the medium. Some companies even self-censored out of fear of offending these groups, which is why crosses were removed from certain games and other games were never even ported to Western regions. Imagine if christian lobbyists demanded that every game include at least one positive message/reference to the religion? Imagine if your country didn't get ATLUS games localized into your language because the company thought the game's themes would be too offensive to Western audiences.

Now apply that same disgust to the people who demand that every game include a rainbow of token-characters and will only tolerate positive messages and themes about their ideology and you'll understand why people get pissy about this subject.

 

[ViolentP]

Doing the imagine _____ _______ thing makes you sound like a retarded Reddit parrot.

Makes the disappointment of it no less true, friend.

 

[Papa]

I think that what people tend to complain about is when it smells like there's an ulterior motive. Sometimes, you can feel an agenda behind the game.

Ding ding ding, we have a weiner

 

[Papa]

Doing the imagine _____ _______ thing makes you sound like a retarded Reddit parrot.

Imagine not understanding memes in current_year

 

[Sethbacca]

Meh

Now apply that same disgust to the people who demand that every game include a rainbow of token-characters and will only tolerate positive messages and themes about their ideology and you'll understand why people get pissy about this subject.

Life pro tip - Your demand that they not be included in any way because it offends your delicate sensibilities is also a political agenda. So the very thing that you complain about, you're engaging in. Instead of ignoring things you don't like and just not giving them your money, you're on here whinging and whining (the general you, not you specifically) about every perceived sleight that goes counter to your own ideology.

 

[Yoshi]

I have yet to play a game with a major female human character that is not recognisable as female to me.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Naughty Dog treats their characters the right way, good set of skills, moves etc. character building is Naughty Dog's biggest strength.

 

[Jon Neu]

Imagine demanding videogame girls be hotter.

Imagine demanding videogame girls be uglier.

 

[Aion002]

Sorry, but the ugly white cave troll with dreadlocks from Horizon.

Aloy is clearly inspired by Artemis, greek Goddess of the Hunt.
If you think that she is ugly.... well, that's your own personal taste. She is really pretty in many beauty standards around the world.

 

[Papa]

I have yet to play a game with a major female human character that is not recognisable as female to me.

You only play Nintendo games so none of the characters are even human

 

[Papa]

Naughty Dog treats their characters the right way, good set of skills, moves etc. character building is Naughty Dog's biggest strength.

Was, until Cuckmann pushed Amy out of his way so he could show how feminist he is.

 

[Tomeru]

Prosopagnosia is a bitch, dude. Yeah I got that word from Zero Escape.

I had to google that, thanks.

Seems to me like the gaffer I quoted doesn't have that condition though, as his post would read differently.

 

[FireFly]

I never said everything has to be perfect. I just posted an example.

If I want to face ugliness I'll just go to work where there's plenty.

Or I'll play Doom. But notice that Doom Guy is handsome whereas all the monsters look funny. he he

I was taking the argument to a logical extreme. For everything in game you can say "wouldn't it be better if this was prettier". But I don't think that works because it depends on the reasons for designing the element that way in the first place. Sometimes a gloomy sky is more effective for communicating a certain mood than a bright sunny one. Generally, I think main characters are designed to be attractive to make them more appealing and (paradoxically perhaps) more relatable, and because games are seen as a power fantasy. But not every main character needs to be appealing in every respect.

Personally, I find playing a flawed character much more interesting, and I don't see why flaws can't manifest themselves physically. For example in many respects I prefer Geralt's face in The Witcher 2 since it looks more menacing to me, even if he is more conventionally attractive in The Witcher 3.

 

[CaptainClaw]

Lool you have some people in this thread saying a big behind is unattractive yet Millions/Billions of people don't agree with that sentiment and DO find it attractive. Just because you like small waist, thin body, small behind doesn't mean everyone does.

So how can certain people BE telling overs whats ATTRACTIVE and whats NOT????

 

[ViolentP]

Imagine demanding videogame girls be uglier.

Or thinner. Or taller. Or anything.

 

[Yoshi]

You only play Nintendo games so none of the characters are even human

Yesterday I played Assassin's Creed Origins (spoiler: It's shit) and SotN (which is admittedly old). I had no trouble recognising female characters as such.

 

[Screamer-RSA]

Naughty Dog treats their characters the right way, good set of skills, moves etc. character building is Naughty Dog's biggest strength.

Oooh boy you are in for a wild ride

 

[DKehoe]

 

[GreyHorace]

Personally, I find playing a flawed character much more interesting, and I don't see why flaws can't manifest themselves physically. For example in many respects I prefer Geralt's face in The Witcher 2 since it looks more menacing to me, even if he is more conventionally attractive in The Witcher 3.

I personally agree with this. I much preferred Geralt's look in The Witcher 2 than in 3. It's still the same face but he they made adjustments to make him much more attractive. His look in the second game struck the right balance between being inhuman and handsome enough to bed the ladies.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Life pro tip - Your demand that they not be included in any way because it offends your delicate sensibilities is also a political agenda.

I'm not demanding that they be excluded. Please drop the false dichotomy Both Sides™ brainmush.

A person pointing out an agenda is not the same as the person demanding that "they not be included in any way".

These flimsy non-arguments clog every thread on these sjw topics. Are you implying that the negative reaction is largely because people have delicate sensibilities and therefore don't have a genuine complaint? Hmm, fascinating. I guess the complainers who complain about the complainers are even worse than the original complainers? Let's bicker about which complainers/fanboys are worse while the Powers That Be continue to push a perceived agenda.

The response to an accusation of agenda isn't to drag down the conversation until it is no longer about anything. The response would be to refute it.

But ideologues cannot refute, they only recite dogma.

So the very thing that you complain about, you're engaging in.

No. You've made a strawman of what I'm complaining about.

I'm not even complaining. I'm pointing out a perspective on why people are irritated when an ideology pushes itself into an entertainment medium, insists on "more representation" and also shouts down any attempt to portray their ideology in a negative light. The fact that you cannot empathize with people who are frustrated by this phenomenon -- even if you disagree with their reasoning -- is on you, not them.

Instead of ignoring things you don't like and just not giving them your money, you're on here whinging and whining (the general you, not you specifically) about every perceived sleight that goes counter to your own ideology.

Yeah well if you're arguing against another generalized strawman who am I to stand in your way?

Seems like drowning controversial threads in non-conversation is still effective.

 

[Sander Cohen]

Is there any aspect of life where people prefer something to be uglier? Like, please no, that’s too pretty for my taste, do you perhaps have uglier model of that?

So, if we are controlling certain character for dozens of hours like we are in many of these games, what’s so strange wanting for them to look good? Same goes for male characters, I don’t wanna play as some ugly, half-bald, fat dude. I just don’t.

But, luckily, pretty much all guys consistently look great throughout decades. Pretty or gritty but masculine. Nathan Drake, Leon Kennedy, Chris Redfield, Geralt, Joel, Arthur Morgan etc.

As a heterosexual male, I’m more inclined to buy game where female characters are more attractive, especially in the age of photorealistic graphics. People like to be around good looking people in real life too. It’s human nature. These are not muddy sprites anymore. You control these people, it’s not like you’re watching a movie. You are being put into their skin.

And what irks me the most is when they make very attractive model (because they are using motion capture for everything these days) uglier in game, intentionally or through lack of skill. But every fucking time, like a clockwork. Then, don’t use models at all, it’s disrespectful to them. Make your own character how you see fit.

Can’t wait to see who was model for Abby. Boy, is that gonna be hilarious

 

[Dacon]

Aloy is clearly inspired by Artemis, greek Goddess of the Hunt.

and Hannah Hoekstra obviously

 

[Grandmaster Hash]

A character being pretty or ugly is based on world design? Well that's a first.

In a post apocalyptic world with no makeup and likely inadequate nutrition yeah people wouldn't look like ig models

 

[jeffyjaixx]

Why is this even a thread? Female video game characters do look like females. Throughout this gen, I have not once noticed that a female is not a female in all the games I've played. Not every female character needs to look like a dolled up anime girl.

 

[lock2k]

Why is this even a thread? Female video game characters do look like females. Throughout this gen, I have not once noticed that a female is not a female in all the games I've played. Not every female character needs to look like a dolled up anime girl.

Sure

 

[V2Tommy]

Not every female character needs to look like a dolled up anime girl.

That's ridiculous. Even male characters need to look like dolled-up anime girls. Can't spent 40 hours looking at things that aren't beautiful.

 

[ToadMan]

We got a forecast for when this is going to blow over?

Playing through mid-2000 era games just reminds me how much female characters design has devolved.

Those 2000 era characters don’t resemble
Females. I suggest you go to your local mall and compare the real women you see there with your fantasy game girls.

You want unrealistic sexed up characters. There are plenty of those around - in fact take a look on steam and switch.
The Japanese girl worship games - they’re easier to access than ever.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Now apply that same disgust to the people who demand that every game include a rainbow of token-characters and will only tolerate positive messages and themes about their ideology and you'll understand why people get pissy about this subject.

I'm not seeing why this is an issue. Like if the story doesn't call for a character to be white, what is the problem with making the character black or asian etc?

 

[Virex]

Beautiful women can have a place in games or other media like movies and tv that extends beyond fanservice. It's the SJWs that complain about stuff like this that are the problem IMO.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I'm not seeing why this is an issue. Like if the story doesn't call for a character to be white, what is the problem with making the character black or asian etc?

I don't see that as an issue, either.

But that isn't the argument. People aren't complaining because the person has black or asian skin, at least not as far as I can tell. Do racial supremacists generally complain about that? I don't know.

I do know that so-called "SJWs" complain loudly whenever a person with one of the immutable traits from the Oppression Hierarchy is not painted in a positive light. That's pretty annoying.

I view this behavior no differently than I view Jack Thompson trying to get Grand Theft Auto censored/removed or from christian lobbyists intimidating Japanese companies and keeping certain games out of the West.

Aside from any other political or ethical opinions I might hold, if I see it affecting a hobby I'm going to question why it's happening. That's natural, don't you think? Isn't it normal to be frustrated when people alter a hobby you're into for reasons outside of the hobby itself? Heck, it doesn't even have to be political.... it's annoying when a favorite show or hobby is altered because of budget reasons or the departure of a specific designer or whatever.

Yet in the gaming hobby, the mere act of questioning the inclusion of races/genders is often seen as heresy (ironic coming from the same crowd that says "we're just starting a conversation"). It's almost as if one small group wants to be the arbiters of RightThink and RightMotive. They can read your motives, after all, so you'd better not even think bad thoughts.

 

[Geki-D]

Sure

 

[engstra]

I'm not seeing why this is an issue. Like if the story doesn't call for a character to be white, what is the problem with making the character black or asian etc?

You've absolutely nailed it here. If not pertinent to the story, why not make gaming more diverse in terms of race, culture and gender? It can only really progress and legitimise the medium

 

[ebullientprism]

Jesus fucking christ OP. Why cant you masturbate to normal porn like a regular human being?

"I cant jack off because they covered my waifu titties."

 

[Coolwhhip]

I'd assume videogame developers have a lot of SJW among them. Especially the artistic types. So it might be a while.

 

[Roni]

You mean when they'll look like hentai material again, don't you?

 

[Hayabusabruh]

I Love how so many people jump to it being an issue about not being able to masturbate. Lol. You guys we're special at!

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

You've absolutely nailed it here. If not pertinent to the story, why not make gaming more diverse in terms of race, culture and gender? It can only really progress and legitimise the medium

Can the videogame medium grow on its own merits instead of appeasing cultural gatekeepers who "legitimize" it?

In what way does the fictional portrayal of a skincolor legitimize a videogame? What moral authority are we appealing to here for kudos? Is this word salad, or have you actually thought this sentiment through?

 

[Screamer-RSA]

I know right!? Remedy really went out of their way to uglify her in game!

 

[jeffyjaixx]

Sure

What game is this?

 

[Danjin44]

What game is this?

Control.

 

[Rheon]

Sure

Jesus. I would be so offended if I was the model for Jesse.

 

[Riven326]

I think game developers in the west just got caught up in modern trends, and were afraid of getting left behind, so they started catering to people who aren't really a significant part of their audience. I think that people are catching on to the fact that this stuff isn't as popular, and I expect going into the next generation less and less people will make stride to attempt to appeal to an audience that isn't really interested in their products to begin with.

Thankfully this is by no means a global phenomena, and in the meantime you can just play more japanese games that fit your taste in character design.

More like new developers replaced the old from the 80s and 90s and brought all their far left post-modern ideas with them.

 

[engstra]

Can the videogame medium grow on its own merits instead of appeasing cultural gatekeepers who "legitimize" it?

In what way does the fictional portrayal of a skincolor legitimize a videogame? What moral authority are we appealing to here for kudos? Is this word salad, or have you actually thought this sentiment through?

Absolutely. I'm not saying that games should just try to tick boxes in terms of inclusion. But let's face it, hasn't gaming almost always been trying to appease a pretty specific group (outside of games with more abstract characters/mascots etc)?

Don't see in any way how more variety, which can draw more crowds into gaming, is a bad thing

 

[Sethbacca]

Can the videogame medium grow on its own merits instead of appeasing cultural gatekeepers who "legitimize" it?

In what way does the fictional portrayal of a skincolor legitimize a videogame? What moral authority are we appealing to here for kudos? Is this word salad, or have you actually thought this sentiment through?

Lets look at this from a different angle. Gaming as an industry and the businesses that comprise it are encouraged to attempt to grow the medium because they like money. It turns out, that roughly half the population is female, and there is a growing diversity of humanity in the form of different skin colors and sexual preferences not just in the U.S but the entire world. Would it not behoove these businesses and their shareholders to attempt to grow the base of consumers that purchase their products by attempting to be inclusive of individuals that are not young heterosexual white males? We have historically been the base of the medium, but for the medium to grow and continue to expand it needs to find new markets; especially as games and the industry mature and get more expensive to make.

TLDR : It's not just us boys from the 70s and 80s playing anymore and developers are under no obligation to cater to us. You don't have to like it, but it's not wrong for them to try to expand the market.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Can the videogame medium grow on its own merits instead of appeasing cultural gatekeepers who "legitimize" it?

In what way does the fictional portrayal of a skincolor legitimize a videogame? What moral authority are we appealing to here for kudos? Is this word salad, or have you actually thought this sentiment through?

Exactly! I've been playing games for over 20 years and not once I told myself "I would like to play a character that looks more like me". This madness started in 2014 and they keep parroting each other with the same BS.

TLDR : It's not just us boys from the 70s and 80s playing anymore and developers are under no obligation to cater to us. You don't have to like it, but it's not wrong for them to try to expand the market.

Name a AAA game that sold more because of new females and trans customers?

BFV, Dishonored 2, Prey and Mass Effect Andromeda all failed commercially and they are the most high-profile releases with direct SJW pandering.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Sure

I laughed way to hard at this post.

I also take offense to people talking down about Alloy's looks. That's a pretty lady imho.

I believe most things work on a cycle. Maybe people will rise up and demand their dead or alive wafius next gen.

Maybe one day we will have balance.

 

[lock2k]

The woman that inspired the in-game model is gorgeous, the in game model is not.