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Which black sheep console had it worse, Wii U or Sega Saturn?

Which doomed system had it worse?


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Zadom

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I liked both systems. Bought Saturn for myself and always loved Sega exclusives.

Bought Wii U for my son and enjoy it also, except for how slow it is going through the menus. We were just playing Nintendoland on it today and I was thinking how I like it more than his Switch. But I don’t play portable. Nintendo games are always expensive but not for the Wii U now.

I think Saturn had it worse because they had to deal with the new PlayStation. But 2 systems I regard highly.
 

cartman414

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Voted Saturn, but both had it hard for different reasons.

Saturn - difficult to develop for, infighting between divisions, Bernie Stolar putting an early end, also limiting the presence some of the best games (20,000 copies of PDS whuuuuuuut)
Wii U - unclear messaging, half-assed upgrade (basically 3 of the PowerPC cores from the Wii) that was immediately obsolete by the time XB1/PS4 (more powerful x86 architecture that allowed for easy PC crossports) dropped.
 

Alan Wake

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Wii U was an ill-conceived system from the start. Saturn was a better console but handled even worse by Sega, their mismanagement never gave Saturn a chance in the West. Both of them have some really great games but none of them could match their competition. I was a Saturn owner at the time (ex Sega fanboy), and it was horrible to see game after game that I wanted landing on PlayStation. I imagine Wii U owners experienced something similar regarding third party titles (I bough one in 2019 to catch up and yes, there are some great games on the Wii U but the console itself sucks).
 
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Nikodemos

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Saturn was poorly designed and horribly mismanaged. It also came at a point when the relations between SoJ and SoA were at their nadir. It had the deck stacked against it.

Wii U came after the gargantuan success of the Wii (though the Wii's success does come with a small asterisk). Unfortunately, they did an absolutely disastrous job at differentiating it from it predecessor. And it wasn't a huge performance jump away from the then-current PS3/X360, while everybody waited for the new generation.
Also, they never took advantage of its one special function, namely asymmetric play. Heck, people noticed you could use it for game master functionality in virtual tabletop games as far back as 2012 (see the famous Penny Arcade sketch). They never tried to act on that.
 
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Kokoloko85

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I would say that the Saturn had, unquestionably, the better 2D fighting game library. It's objectively demonstrable.

When it comes to 3D fighters though... The situation is a bit more complicated. Yes, the Saturn had Virtua Fighter. But PlayStation had Tekken (which many people -- myself included -- considered much better than Virtua Fighter) and Soul Blade (which was a better version of Battle Arena Toshinden -- an initially PlayStation exclusive that ended up getting ported to the Saturn).
Yeah Playstation probably wins the 3D fighterswith the Tekken trilogy, Ergeighz, Bushido Blade and soul blade.

I did enjoy fighters vipers, fighters mega mix and last bronx though
 
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Kazza

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they both suffered from poor third party support and constant game droughts

I can't speak for the Wii U, but this definitely wasn't true for the Saturn, not in the first two years of the UK release anyway. Things started slowing down here around mid-97, then there was a real drought (outside Japan) in 1998/99 as Sega focussed on the Dreamcast launch. SLX gives a good summary here:



95-early 97 was a different story however. Despite all the talk today of the rushed/botched western launch, as you can see from this cutting from the December 95 issue of Mean Machines Sega, the Saturn had a very solid line up leading into Christmas of that year:



That probably averages out at around 2 games a week since launch, and there are some quality titles there too. A good mix of genres too, enough to quench the thirst whatever your taste in games. No drought at all.

It's funny reading the XSX/PS5 talk in here about first party exclusives and next gen/cross gen games. Just scanning that list, I'd say that 90% are next gen exclusives (not available on either SNES or MD), and around half are Saturn exclusives. On today's consoles? Maybe 95% are cross gen games and there are just a tiny handful of console exclusives so far. Next gen was so much more exciting back then.
 
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Aug 5, 2009
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Wii U came off the back of the hugely succesful Wii which was quite a colossal fail but was never loss making for Nintendo. Saturn single handedly killed Sega's chances to persist in the hardware business..
It was the 32X and SEGA America that killed Saturn chances IMO. Though I think we also need to remember SEGA did remarkable well to compete with Nintendo or even give SONY a run for their money in Japan. Given the size of SONY, the $500 Million dollar budget for the PSX or how Nintendo had in the Snes day's had a $3 Billion dollar cash war chest. SEGA at its height was only valued at $2 Billion in total LOL

Of course, the biggest fall from grace was neither the Saturn nor the Wii U, but the PC Eng FX What on earth with Hudson and NEC thinking?
 
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I can't speak for the Wii U, but this definitely wasn't true for the Saturn, not in the first two years of the UK release anyway. Things started slowing down here around mid-97, then there was a real drought (outside Japan) in 1998/99 as Sega focussed on the Dreamcast launch. SLX gives a good summary here:

FF7 Killed it for SEGA. The day the just Demo for FF7 came out in Japan was not only the time SEGA's Saturn 1.5 million hardware lead was overtaken, almost in a night, but it seemed to kill the fight in Sega Japan and 3rd party support even in Japan too
Before then it was really a good and close fight in Japan and really good software was coming over too.

Sadly Bernie put pay to that and also had a pointless fight with WD :(
 

SCB3

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The Sega Saturn by far:

  • Sega saturated the market with Mega Drive add ons such as the Sega CD and 32X, these alone failed aside from the odd game availible (and Knuckles Chaotix is pushing it for the 32X)
  • So when the Saturn came out, it didn't launch with anything major aside from Tomb Raider and Virtua Fighter
  • The Launch was so bad, it went from Announcement at E3 95 to in retail stores in the same week, a lot of retail workers bought them up instead of customers
  • Again the lack of Sonic hurt it bad, when Sonic £D Blast came out in 1996, not only was the Mega Drive version better all round, it wasn't the Sonic game people wanted, remember, Sonic was SEGA's big franchise at this point, all Saturn owners got was Sonic Jam, a port of the Mega drive games plus a £D Green Hill Zone hub level and a promise
  • Sega never gave it time, it only lasted 3 and a half years before Sega focused on the Dreamcast, which in fairness was a better console all round
When you look back at the Saturn, try to name 10 must play games, I get to about 5 and give up, those 5 being:

  • Virtua Figther
  • Tomb Raider (the best version of the game in fact)
  • Daytona
  • Panzer Dragoon Saga
  • Sonic 3D Blast
As for the Wii U? Well we're getting ports of the best games, the Wii U's issue was its name and set up, people thought it was a Wii Add On and not a new console, that and the fact that unless you bought a Pro Controller, you had to play with the somewhat clunky Gamepad with the screen, good idea in theory, but in practice wasn't practical

Also to add, the Wii U was weirdly long, it never fit on a shelf well, in fact a complaint I also have about the Switch dock as well
 
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GymWolf

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I never loved my saturn but it was still a console and not a huge shitty gimmick.
 

Kazza

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FF7 Killed it for SEGA. The day the just Demo for FF7 came out in Japan was not only the time SEGA's Saturn 1.5 million hardware lead was overtaken, almost in a night, but it seemed to kill the fight in Sega Japan and 3rd party support even in Japan too
Before then it was really a good and close fight in Japan and really good software was coming over too.

Sadly Bernie put pay to that and also had a pointless fight with WD :(

It's interesting to speculate bout how things would have gone in Japan had FFVII been multi-plat instead of a PS1 exclusive (I think it was already too late for the Saturn in the West, although maybe it would have meant games actually still being released at a decent clip up until the Dreamcast launch). Maybe FFVII wouldn't have been the massive deal it was without Sony's massive hype/marketing campaign (which they surely wouldn't have funded with the exclusivity deal).
 

Tschumi

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I'm taking a break from gaming, but nestled in my sock drawer is a wii U and I'm so glad I have it, as I never have to worry about laggy gamecube games again, and i have a ton of fun wii titles to play with my girl, and like maybe one day i'll be Fd to try the Wii U titles I impulse purchased, too.
 
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Fulcizombie

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The sega saturn was an amazing console. Really cutting edge , for its time, with sega boosting its 3D capabilities at the last minute on top of it being a 2d monster. The wiiu was a product of what Nintendo does, extremely underpowered console based on a gimmick, sometimes these things work , sometimes they don’t. Basically the last true Nintendo home console that forced the company to essentially merge its handheld business with its home console business. People have to take into account that N64 and then the GC (2 traditional , powerful Nintendo consoles) were also not succesfull. Sony was destroying everyone by money hatting just about every 3rd party game on earth.

As far as legacy goes the Saturn had some truly magical moments like Nights into dreams and Panzer Dragon Saga on top of Sega’s amazing coin op conversions. The wiiu had...whatever I guess.
 
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Black_Stride

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I loved my Sega Saturn. I wish Sega will try again and release a new Saturn or Dreamcast.

With Intel as their chip maker.
So itll be larger than the PS5 but will have an RTX3070 level GPU.
 

Fulcizombie

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It's interesting to speculate bout how things would have gone in Japan had FFVII been multi-plat instead of a PS1 exclusive (I think it was already too late for the Saturn in the West, although maybe it would have meant games actually still being released at a decent clip up until the Dreamcast launch). Maybe FFVII wouldn't have been the massive deal it was without Sony's massive hype/marketing campaign (which they surely wouldn't have funded with the exclusivity deal).
Of course FFVII would have been a great deal without Sony, the N64 was introduced with a demo of it.
 

Kazza

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Of course FFVII would have been a great deal without Sony, the N64 was introduced with a demo of it.

That's another interesting "what if" - what if FFVII was a N64 exclusive. I'm sure the N64 would have done much better in Japan at least.
 

Fulcizombie

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That's another interesting "what if" - what if FFVII was a N64 exclusive. I'm sure the N64 would have done much better in Japan at least.
The n64 would have done better everywhere because being n.1 in Japan would have ensured huge 3rd party support for the console thus having a way bigger installed base in the west too. People have to remember that before the first Xbox, Japanese games ruled the videogames’’ landscape and western games were mostly on pc and home computers (really popular in Europe).
 

nush

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A long haul flight from wherever you are.
When you look back at the Saturn, try to name 10 must play games, I get to about 5 and give up, those 5 being:

Challenge accepted.

Sega Rally
Virtua Fighter 2
Virtua Cop
Fighters megamix
Saturn Bomberman
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Panzer Dragoon Zwie
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Xmen Children of the Atom
Nights
Burning Rangers
Dragon Force
Dark Savior
Powerslave


And I've not even mentions must play import exclusives.
 
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It's interesting to speculate bout how things would have gone in Japan had FFVII been multi-plat instead of a PS1 exclusive (I think it was already too late for the Saturn in the West, although maybe it would have meant games actually still being released at a decent clip up until the Dreamcast launch). Maybe FFVII wouldn't have been the massive deal it was without Sony's massive hype/marketing campaign (which they surely wouldn't have funded with the exclusivity deal).
Saturn was on life support thanks to SEGA America and Europe thinking the 32X would sweep all before it. In Japan, it was very different and if FF7 had come out only on the Saturn in Japan, that had really hurt the PS in Japam if not killed it (in Japan)
In a feature with Square in Retrogamer, The fact that SONY was talking they were going to push FF7 in the USA (a market Squaresoft wanted to really crack) helped them move to the PS

I think SEGA Japan was so used to not working with Square, they no doubt didn't roll out the red carpet for them and thought the Saturn userbase advantage in Japan would have been enough :(
 

RobRSG

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When you look back at the Saturn, try to name 10 must play games
Well, will try:

Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Xmen Vs Street Fighter
Street Fighter Alpha 2
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Radiant Silvergun
Sega Rally
Daytona USA
Burning Rangers
Resident Evil
Nights
Virtua Fighter 2
Battle Garegga
Layer Sector (Gunlock)
Batsugun
Darius Gaiden
Die Hard

Oops… More than 10 already. And I could go on.
 

Meesh

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This might sound weird, because I played mostly on Nintendo consoles, but I lusted for Saturn so bad. The WiiU was more of an obligation type thing to get my hands on Zelda.
 
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fart town usa

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Wii U in terms of how gamers label it.

The Saturn when it was actually on the market.

Funny thing, I still play both consoles on a regular basis. My Japanese mod chipped/pro action replay Saturn is my most treasured console.
 
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fart town usa

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Speak for yourself. I still play Saturn games.

Is there anything worthwhile on the Wii U that hasn't been ported to Switch yet? Windwaker HD?
Xenoblade Chronicles X is the main one. Wind Waker HD, Twilight Princess HD, Yoshi's Woolly World.

Runner up is Devil's Third (it's a fun action game). Not as bad as people make it out to be.
 

cireza

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When you look back at the Saturn, try to name 10 must play games, I get to about 5 and give up, those 5 being:
You have close to zero knowledge of the console, that might be the problem here.
You are simply repeating stuff you probably read somewhere from people just as uninformed as you. Tomb Raider wasn't a launch title.
 
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cireza

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with sega boosting its 3D capabilities at the last minute
Legend says that the SEGA CEO went in the factory and soldered himself the additional components on every single unit being made. As it was a lot of work, he eventually asked Segata-sanshiro for help.

Here, another example of people repeating stuff without having a clue...
 
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Ten_Fold

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WiiU would’ve been better if it wasn’t called wiiU. I remember working at Walmart and customers saying they already got the wii why do they need a $300 tablet. It was tough explaining back then.
 

MvCSpiderman

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It was the 32X and SEGA America that killed Saturn chances IMO.
Doesn't make sense to me, Saturn never had an attractive starting line up for the US market 32X or not. Heck, 32X at least had the games that Genesis buyers got the system for. Saturn took too long for appealing games and by the time it did Twisted Metal, Crash, Tomb Raider, and Resident Evil were out.

There's a strange myth that Sega of America releasing more jrpgs would have helped it in NA, which doesn't add up since jrpgs outside FF didn't sell on the PlayStation.

It's really a case of Sega Japan sacrificing all markets for a temporary increase in market share in japan.
 

MvCSpiderman

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FF7 Killed it for SEGA. The day the just Demo for FF7 came out in Japan was not only the time SEGA's Saturn 1.5 million hardware lead was overtaken, almost in a night, but it seemed to kill the fight in Sega Japan and 3rd party support even in Japan too
Before then it was really a good and close fight in Japan and really good software was coming over too.

PS

YearSalesLTD
1994280.000 280.000
19951.370.000 1.650.000
19962.689.095 4.339.095
19975.193.055 9.532.150
19984.514.775 13.752.795
19992.927.856 16.680.651
20001.179.880 17.860.531
2001679.437 18.539.968
2002248.096 18.778.064
200362.386 18.850.450
20044.900 18.855.344

Saturn
FYLTD
FY94-95840.000840.000
FY95-961.660.0002.500.000
FY96-972.300.0004.800.000
FY97-98800.0005.600.000
FY98-99300.0005.900.000


PS1 was already 2:1 Saturn in Japan by start of 1997 and FF7 wouldn't release until the end of the year.

Also if Sega still had anticipated games even without FF7 it wouldn't have fallen to 800k in shipments. Japan was done with the Saturn. The N64 was beating it almost 3:1 at that point and had zero jrpgs, so it doesn't make sense to blame FF7.
 

fart town usa

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Among the myriad of failed consoles, none are more fascinating than that of Nintendo's Wii U and Sega's Saturn. It may not seem like it at first, but these two systems have a lot more in common than you might think. They're both bloated, over-complicated machines that developers and gamers couldn't understand. They both succeed groundbreaking success stories for their platform holders (Genesis and Wii), they both suffered from poor third party support and constant game droughts, terrible marketing, and were overall non-existent in the public eye. And both were abandoned rather quickly by their platform holders once the realities became apparent.

But between the two systems, which actually had the worst of it? Wii U or Sega Saturn? Honestly in retrospect, I think the Saturn had it far rougher. With the Wii U, you can at least tell Nintendo tried. Even when the writing was on the wall, they still trudged forward and tried to make it work. The Wii U's main problem was simply that Nintendo betted on the wrong horse. A dual screened home-console running Power PC in 2013 just simply wasn't a product people particularly wanted or asked for, as well as not being unique enough from the Wii to stand out and be seen as an actual successor. Plus, many of its best games live on through sequels and ports on the Nintendo Switch, so it's not like it was a complete waste of effort.

The Saturn on the other hand was the culmination of years of problems brewing within Sega. Overreliance on Arcade ports, hostile relations between Sega of America and Sega Corporate, Throwing new hardware on the market back-to-back within the span of 3 years, abandoning those contraptions shortly afterward, and panic moves to try and drum up business such as the Saturn's surprise launch. I'd say the Saturn's failure is more pathetic, as they lost to an industry newcomer with very little prior experience with the gaming industry in Sony and their PlayStation.
Fantastic topic and thread OP.

Also, this is your avatar picture all grown up.

 

Komatsu

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I have both consoles and I think that in another 20 years history will be significantly kinder to the Saturn.

The Wii U is just the epitome of Nintendo laziness: remasters upon remasters, not a single relevant new IP to carry the platform, etc. At least they let you bring over your old VC titles, a feature they absurdly dropped with the Switch.

The Saturn was hard to program for, but it's choke full of legendary games that created quite a legacy. It didn't prosper because Nakayama and the Japanese brass were completely out of their depth in trying to outshine the very successful team at SEGA of America (Tom Kalinske, Al Nielsen, etc.).
 
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The issue is that during the time of Saturn, it is the "Dark age of 2d gaming", where 2d is villianized and everything need to be 3d, even when it look like shit like battle arena toshino
 
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I have both consoles and I think that in another 20 years history will be significantly kinder to the Saturn.

The Wii U is just the epitome of Nintendo laziness: remasters upon remasters, not a single relevant new IP to carry the platform, etc. At least they let you bring over your old VC titles, a feature they absurdly dropped with the Switch.

The Saturn was hard to program for, but it's choke full of legendary games that created quite a legacy. It didn't prosper because Nakayama and the Japanese brass were completely out of their depth in trying to outshine the very successful team at SEGA of America (Tom Kalinske, Al Nielsen, etc.).
Well, it IS sega of america that basically given up on saturn for 1 years + when they could have bring in title like xemn vs street figther and such.
 

Pagusas

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I’ll say Saturn as it was almost a kill shot to Sega as a whole

Wii U while bad, also was the precursor to the Switch, which we all love. I think the Wii U had to exist for us to get to that next step, so I give it a little bit of a break
 
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Doesn't make sense to me, Saturn never had an attractive starting line up for the US market 32X or not. Heck, 32X at least had the games that Genesis buyers got the system for. Saturn took too long for appealing games and by the time it did Twisted Metal, Crash, Tomb Raider, and Resident Evil were out.

There's a strange myth that Sega of America releasing more jrpgs would have helped it in NA, which doesn't add up since jrpgs outside FF didn't sell on the PlayStation.

It's really a case of Sega Japan sacrificing all markets for a temporary increase in market share in japan.


For starters, I made it clear to say by the time of the FF7 demo, not the actual release of FF7 and where I said almost overnight SEGA lead of a million or more consoles was wiped out but just a demo.



Also, you're too much of a launch lineup. What did the PS2 have really? Its launch lineup was just as bad as the Saturn in Japan and not much better in the USA.In fact for most ist 1st year DC owners could say they had the better games and more impressive looking games too The Mega Drive launch lineup in Japan, was dire and not really that much better in the USA You also overlook Tom Raider actually launched 1st on the Saturn.

You can also have a spectacular launch and lose out. I remember the PSP Vita was huge bigger than the 3DS, but it was killed by the 3DS, The Cube had one of the biggest launches ever in Europe, only for XBox to outsell it. I seem to remember the Atari ST doing so much better than the Amiga in the early years too

If we didn't have SEGA America and Europe so behind the 32X. The Saturn would have been launching with Doom, VR Delux, Star Wars and would have been the 1st console to get Fifa as well and more importantly would have had a united tool, development and marketing push behind just one system. Please do bring up how Doom or VR looked on the Saturn, they were made by entirely different teams. Sure there was no way the Saturn could top the PS, but it could have given the N64 a run of its money if you had SEGA all behind one system. It's crazy looking back. Nintendo had a hard time trying to support both a console and a handheld, so did SONY. Yet SEGA was trying to support and make or publish software for the Mega Drive, GameGear/Master System, Saturn, 32X and the Arcades all while having nothing like the money and resources of it's two big rivals

Then you make matters worse you have people like Bernie who picked silly fights with WD (who weren't just about translating RPG's) and not looking to bring some of the better games over. I know he was dealt a terrible hand by Tom and the Saturn was all but dead at that time, but Grandia was every bit as good as FF7 and some of the better games from Japan would have had minimal translation costs like DOA or Gun Griffon 2 and the 1Meg Cart should have been brought over and games like Metal Slug too.
 

MvCSpiderman

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Also, you're too much of a launch lineup. What did the PS2 have really? Its launch lineup was just as bad as the Saturn in Japan and not much better in the USA.In fact for most ist 1st year DC owners could say they had the better games and more impressive looking games too
The PS2s competition wouldn't release for another year and a half.

The Dreamcast line up was better and outside Japan was an advantage, but like the Saturn the 2nd full year didn't have the software to push the hardware forward.

Even before the demo the PS1 was near 2:1 Saturn in Japan. Outside of Japan PS1 only had a slight edge early, but in 1996 Saturn had nothing to keep things competitive with the PS1. Later in the year Sega pushed several 2D titles as a way to show the consoles advantage which was a mistake imo, because Saturn was already gaining the reputation of a poor 3D console.

You also continue with this delusion that Bernie was blocking hit games, Grandia and gungriffon were not going to increase hardware adoption by any meaningful level, FF7 had a crazy marketing campaign, it was after a lull in releases, it was an established franchise which already had a niche fanbase of buyers who brought the last two US releases, and it was backed by Sony itself and only sold 2 million units despite all this spending.

How many Saturn's do you think Grandia was going to move? It came out in 1997 after the Saturn was sitting on shelves and Sega setting it on fire with tons of deals devaluing the console. A 2 year exclusive that would end up on the PS1 anyway on a larger install base.

In 1996 PS1 had in America:
Tomb Raider
Crash bandicoot
Resident Evil
Bubsy (was popular earlier)
Twisted Metal 2
Parappa the rapper
Tekken 2
Blood Omen Legacy of kain
Diablo
Rage Racer
Jumping Flash 2
Decent Ii
Jet Moto
Dead or Alive
Fox Hunt
Broken Sword templers

In 1996 Saturn had:
Nights
Guardian heroes
Panzer Dragoon II
Fighters megamix
Daytona
Resident Evil
Sonic 3D Blast
The last bronx
Bug Too
Dark Saviour
Saturn Bomberman
Shining the holy ark
Dragon Force
Enemy zero

Sega lost their last chance to convert Genesis owners by this point. It was already too late unless they had a very incredible 1997 line up for nearly the entire year and they didn't.

Looking at some games Genesis fans brought around the peak:

Aladdin
Mortal Kombat I
Shinobi III
Double Dragon vs battle toads
Golden Axe 3
Gunstar Heroes
Xmen
Cool spot
Chaos engine
Eternal champions
Fantastic Dizzy
Gauntlet IV
Jurassic Park
Lethal enforcers
Micro machines
Paperboy 2
Outrun 2019
Rolling thunder 3

The Saturn never had much to convert buyers of these games to the Saturn. By the time this improved it was too late. It was over before 1997 started.

With that said still better than Wii U.
 
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The PS2s competition wouldn't release for another year and a half.
That's such a lame cop out. The PS2 launch lineup was utter rubbish in Japan and not much better 7 odd months later in the USA, The DC launch lineup in Japan was terrible and while the USA launch line up was better, that was 11 months latter
The Mega Drive launch lineup in Japan was crap and not really that much better in the USA, the 360 launch lineup was pretty dire and its launch sales weren't great either (mainly down to stock)
So I think you place too much importance on the launch software and having an amazing launch

I also think you are trolling TBH. 1996 SEGA pushing 2D games? Not the same SEGA that was giving Saturn users Panzer Dragoon Zwei, Dark Saviour, Fighting Viper, Virtual On, Decathlete, Die Hard Arcade, Daytona USA CE Ect in 1996?. SEGA had a clear userbase advantage in Japan and 'if' FF7 had come to Saturn in Japan it would have won. Sure come 1997 the Saturn was dead in the west and not doing that great in Japan but SEGA was going to lose millions translating titles to the West, or not.
Plus SEGA was getting an unfair impression that it was dropping systems and making users buy new ones.

SEGA America could have translated Grandia, DOA and a few others and that at least would have given Saturn users some quality software and actually showed SEGA cared about its userbase. Bernie made that silly speech which made Dave Perry and a few others dropped the Saturn dead then Bernie had a silly spat with WD on paying for their E3 both, WD confirmed they had Souky, Battle Garegga, Thunder Force V Silhouette Mirage, Lunar 1 and more, all signed up for translation and knowing WD they no doubt, would have looked to bring Sakura Wars 1 and Dragon Force 2 to the west too.



Nice one Bernie. What tiny amount of money you saved on WD E3 both, you cost the poor Western Saturn owners dear, with quality software. To his credit mind, he did wonders with the DC launch in the USA.

 

MvCSpiderman

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That's such a lame cop out.

It's not a lame cop out, that's why you removed the rest of context because you didn't have a valid response.

You keep bringing up japan to try and warp the discussion, I said that the PS2 lineup was bad, I said the PS1 lineup wasn't good, I said PS1 had a slight edge in the US on the Saturn.

I also said that the Saturn and Dreamcast failed to build on their competitive first years in their second years. You completely ignored that.

I also talked about how the Saturn failed to convert Genesis owners with the right games, and listed several genesis releases people were buying consoles for to show the Saturn didn't cover as much ground.

But for some reason you turned that into a conversation about Genesis launch sales in Japan...which missed the point and has nothing to do with the conversation...same with the Genesis launch in usa. Again the point was the Saturn didn't have games to make Americans buy it like the Genesis did as it grew big. I never said anything about Genesis launch line ups.

As for FF7, unless Sega got it as an exclusive, it wouldn't have done much for the Saturn. By 1997 most games on both sold more on the PlayStation, and unless Saturn also got Dragon quest 7, which sold more than FF7 in Japan, an exclusive FF7 would be a temporary bump. But there's no real way Sega could get any Square game exclusive in japan, it was coming to every existing CD console.

Everything else is the same violen playing that you usually hear for the Saturn, yes you invested in the console and Sega cut releases and you're upset they didn't bring more over as they pulled the plug. I get it but that wasn't going to move hardware.

Most Saturn owners didn't want half the games you're thinking of, and for those that did it wouldn't move consoles so Sega saw no reason to pointlessly bring over games to a small base that wouldn't move the needle. Sega is a business, they were in a bad financial spot and needed to make money.

You're basically telling me you wanted them to be in greater financial danger because you wanted more games to be brought over while the system was dying. Priorities?

WD confirmed they had Souky, Battle Garegga, Thunder Force V Silhouette Mirage, Lunar 1 and more, all signed up for translation and knowing WD they no doubt, would have looked to bring Sakura Wars 1 and Dragon Force 2 to the west too.

Again priorities? These wouldn't do anything for Sega, just a bitter 15 fans who invested in the Saturn who wanted these games who were mad they didn't get them. With your way of thinking we may not have even gotten the Dreamcast.