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Why isn't Virtua Fighter as popular as Tekken?

MrMephistoX

Member
They kind of launched too late on Playstation but I loved 4 on PS2 and it still holds up on emulation. Really hope Ultimate Showdown gets downloaded a shit load as a PS Plus title and there are more DLC packs and levels from 2-4. Like it’s just such a weirdly cool thing to match up the low poly VF1 skins against the new hotness. They could have just made a barebones port but this is actually a surprisingly good QOL package and since it’s free $10 for more goofy DLC is nothing. Bring on Pepsi man as DLC!
 
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Faithless83

Banned
Lol it has nothing to do with the auto combos, as blazblue, guilty gear, persona and gbvs have had auto combos and easy inputs in their games before.

It's because dbz is mega popular franchise worldwide & this looked like the first actual decent dbz fighting game.

Also the dark souls series has sold over 27 million units, over 10 million units alone from dark souls 3, they are MEGA popular games, so not sure what you're getting at with your soulsbourne statement.

They are fantastic games and lots of people love them....
Fighting games aren't mainstream, they have a high entry bar.
People get bodied online for a reason, they don't know the fundamentals.

Tekken 3 you could mash it for combos. VF it would lead it to 3 punches and that's it.
VF wasn't very satisfying for the casuals. That was when Tekken turned the tables.

Compared to Smash 20M, SF5 just reached 5M.
I for one don't even consider Smash a fighting game, it's another party game with fighting elements and that's it.
I love Soulsborne and FG in general, but we can't call it mainstream for what I pointed out.
Tekken is easier to press shit and look cool in the process.
 
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anthony2690

Member
Fighting games aren't mainstream, they have a high entry bar.
People get bodied online for a reason, they don't know the fundamentals.

Tekken 3 you could mash it for combos. VF it would lead it to 3 punches and that's it.
VF wasn't very satisfying for the casuals. That was when Tekken turned the tables.

Compared to Smash 20M, SF5 just reached 5M.
I for one don't even consider Smash a fighting game, it's another party game with fighting elements and that's it.
I love Soulsborne and FG in general, but we can't call it mainstream for what I pointed out.
Tekken is easier to press shit and look cool in the process.
I'm not sure why you're desperately trying to tell me that Virtua Fighter is harder to play than tekken.
I know, I've been playing Virtua Fighter since the Sega saturn (Virtua Fighter 2 blew me away back in the day, honestly thought games would never look better)

Tekken is more popular than Virtua Fighter because it released on PlayStation and the home releases had LOADS of content, rather than being an arcade port on a dead system like the sega saturn.

Not only that I can imagine the demo helped sell the game too, like it did with other games like thps, everyone I know either had tekken 3 or had played the demo (same with thps)

And dark souls is definitely a mainstream ip with mainstream success. :)
 
Okay now your biases are starting to show through; was your question in the OP a genuine one out curiousness or one so you could find excuses to try trashing on valid answers throughout the thread to affirm your own preconceived notions? All I did was ask a simple question; "do you have sources", because I was genuinely curious, and all you had to do was provide the numbers and a source link if able. That's it.

In any case, sales for a series like Virtua Fighter don't say much about its overall revenue stream, because it's mainly in arcades where it drew a lot of its revenue for the first few releases, mainly thanks to the Japan and other Asian regions during the '90s and early '00s. I'm only speculating here, but if you took it's arcade revenue along with the revenue generated from home version sales on consoles it's likely a much bigger franchise revenue-wise than Toshinden ever was.

Also FWIW the Toshinden games were generally considered all flash and no substance even from the 1st iteration, that's a reason why the sequels had a hard time afterwards: the substance never really improved. In a way Tekken started off similarly (VF1 holds up much better than Tekken 1), but Tekken 2 improved the actual gameplay a lot and by Tekken 3 it was a very solid and technical fighter. Toshinden never got there hence why it just faded out with the PS1 era by the time Tekken 3 came along (the anime OVA series is pretty neat tho; not as good as the Fatal Fury anime films but arguably better than the Tekken anime flick).

If you're looking for other reasons to answer your question in the OP, just read my first post in this thread, and I'm sure there are other posts throughout that give valid reasons. The question is if you're in enough of a neutral headspace to accept those logical answers or not.

How can you say I have biases when I gave you numbers?

VF first two games sold 2.2 million, I just showed on the ps1 alone Toshindens first games were near that. So Toshibden was a big 3D fighting game franchise.

Yet stating again, the point which flew over your head, Toshinden still never got the sales of Tekken despite being one of the bigger fighting series and being on the PlayStation.

The person with closed or rather empty headspace in this case would be you. I don't know why you took something so simple and complicated it.

The whole reason why we are even on this subject is because people keep saying Tekken sold because it was on the PlayStation, at least one of the primary reasons for it's success. I don't know what bias you're talking about. Maybe yours because I don't even like Toshinden I just know it had good sales compared to other 3D fighters and still didn't sell higher numbers later like Tekken.

You're going on and on about revenue streams and asian regions and no one in this entire thread was talking about those.
 

Faithless83

Banned
I'm not sure why you're desperately trying to tell me that Virtua Fighter is harder to play than tekken.
I know, I've been playing Virtua Fighter since the Sega saturn (Virtua Fighter 2 blew me away back in the day, honestly thought games would never look better)

Tekken is more popular than Virtua Fighter because it released on PlayStation and the home releases had LOADS of content, rather than being an arcade port on a dead system like the sega saturn.

Not only that I can imagine the demo helped sell the game too, like it did with other games like thps, everyone I know either had tekken 3 or had played the demo (same with thps)

And dark souls is definitely a mainstream ip with mainstream success. :)
Because everyone that played both will say VF is more technical out of the 2 (funny enough, having less buttons).
You just need to try to mash in both games and see the difference.

Geez, look up what "mainstream" means.
 

yurinka

Member
I'd say because back then PS1 and PS2 were insanely way more popular worldwide than Sega 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast. Tekken was a PlayStation exclusive, Virtua Fighter a Sega exclusive. So Tekken had access to a way bigger userbase to appeal.

In the Japanese arcades Virtua Fighter was more popular, but Japanese arcades were a tiny portion of the global gaming market.
 
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I'd say because back then PS1 and PS2 were insanely way more popular worldwide than Sega 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast. Tekken was a PlayStation exclusive, Virtua Fighter a Sega exclusive. So Tekken had access to a way bigger userbase to appeal.

In the Japanese arcades Virtua Fighter was more popular, but Japanese arcades were a tiny portion of the global gaming market.
But what about the ps1 fighters that sold less than VF and Tekken? Some of those had content and good graphics, what did Tekken have over them? One was even used by Sony as a Saturn killer.

I think too many people are stripping it down to Tekken just being on playstation. I mean yeah that's important for games like Tekken 3 to sell 8 million copies, but before that there was a field of competition.
 

yurinka

Member
But what about the ps1 fighters that sold less than VF and Tekken? Some of those had content and good graphics, what did Tekken have over them? One was even used by Sony as a Saturn killer.

I think too many people are stripping it down to Tekken just being on playstation. I mean yeah that's important for games like Tekken 3 to sell 8 million copies, but before that there was a field of competition.
I don't know, In my case I always prefered the Capcom fighters.

I assume that between the PSX ones, Tekken 3 was the one with way better high-end 3D visuals and was released after building a good fanbase with the two previous ones, so mixed with a casual friendly gameplay where you make cool stuff just by button smashing, while at the same time appealing to more experienced players who could make very long combos with proper knowledge and experience was more appealing to more people. And on top ot that, unlike the other ones maybe it was released in a point of the life cycle where the userbase was insane to get great sales plus have still enough time to sell it dirt cheap during years. After the success of the previous ones, maybe both Namco and Sony heavily marketed it or even made bundles. Who knows, maybe it didn't sell 8M at all and most of these copies come from bundles or something like that.
 
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NT80

Member
Which one is the one that you can play mashing buttons with Eddie?
That's the popular one.

Why is DB Fighterz the popular Arc system game?
It has auto combos.

That's why devs are trying so hard to lower the bar for newer players.
People want to look cool mashing a button or two.

This won't happen with VF and that's fine.

Why aren't Soulsborne games more popular?
VF has already lowered the bar. This latest version is significantly easier than VF4 was for instance. Combos in VF are also pretty simple for most characters.
 

SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
If you care about VF, go play and while also go complain to Sega about Netcode and asked to add rollback

(About topic i love both)
 
Virtua Fighter wasnt popular because there was no pay off for the initial plays of single player getting accustomed to the game. Literally every fighting game other than VF had an ending. The director of that game wouldn't even give us a bone towards that too.
 
Virtua Fighter wasnt popular because there was no pay off for the initial plays of single player getting accustomed to the game. Literally every fighting game other than VF had an ending. The director of that game wouldn't even give us a bone towards that too.
What do you mean didn't have an ending? Credits?
 

Futaleufu

Member
Tekken was available on Playstation consoles, Virtua Fighter on Sega Saturn and Dreamcast. By the time Sega released VF4 on PS2, Tekken's IP was already positioned as the 3D fighting game of Sony systems.
 

Marvel14

Member
Avoiding making a new thread but is anyone having trouble finding rank battle opponents online for VF5 Ultimate? Waits of 5 mins or more are not unheard of. Is anyone out there playing this?
 
Avoiding making a new thread but is anyone having trouble finding rank battle opponents online for VF5 Ultimate? Waits of 5 mins or more are not unheard of. Is anyone out there playing this?
You might have to leave out and start a new search and setting your search options to “any” could help as well. I usually find battles fairly quick, but after a while it sometimes starts to take a long time to find opponents. The reset normally helps out with that. I’m thinking there could also be more players in room matches than rank also.
 
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In the 90's sure. Big deal over there
Not only in the 90.

Virtua Fighter is easily the favorite 3D fighting game in Japan. VF online in Asia is always full since forever, the competitive scene has never stoped and they do offline/arcade tourney every weeks since a decade with VF5FS (even still now despite the VF5US release lol).

Virtua Fighter has absolutely zero problem of popularity in Japan or Asia.

BTW Harada said recently that Tekken is not big at all in Japan, it's in Europe the land of Tekken and where it is the most popular and successful. Funny how it is the complete opposite of Virtua Fighter.
 
Not only in the 90.

Virtua Fighter is easily the favorite 3D fighting game in Japan. VF online in Asia is always full since forever, the competitive scene has never stoped and they do offline/arcade tourney every weeks since a decade with VF5FS (even still now despite the VF5US release lol).

Virtua Fighter has absolutely zero problem of popularity in Japan or Asia.

BTW Harada said recently that Tekken is not big at all in Japan, it's in Europe the land of Tekken and where it is the most popular and successful. Funny how it is the complete opposite of Virtua Fighter.
You guys need to look outside the competitive scene. MKs competitive scene pales to Tekken but MK is clearly the bigger game.

VF will always have the core but compared to Tekken gamers generally gravitate to it or SF in sales.

A new VF could have fixed this. Sega...
 
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01011001

Gold Member
You guys need to look outside the competitive scene. MKs competitive scene pales to Tekken but MK is clearly the bigger game.

popularity is 100% a "is it cool?" contest not a "is it a good game?" contest.
hence MK being the most successful fighting game... it's by far the worst of any of the more popular fighting games but it is also by far the most popular because it has extremely good mainstream appeal.
 
popularity is 100% a "is it cool?" contest not a "is it a good game?" contest.
hence MK being the most successful fighting game... it's by far the worst of any of the more popular fighting games but it is also by far the most popular because it has extremely good mainstream appeal.
So VF is quality and Tekken is terrible. See we agree
 
Because Virtual Fighter isn't a good game, it's a tech demo. The first game was a tech demo, the 2nd game was a tech demo, the 3rd game was the definition of a tech demo, the 4th was a tech demo on the PS2, and the 5th was a tech demo on the Xbox 360.

All the Virtua Fighters are badly designed but marketed as 'deep', have zero content, a stapled together plot, and characters no one cares about. It looks pretty tho.
 

Faust

Perpetually Tired
Staff Member
Tekken is far easier to get into as a 3D Fighter. VF is a more complex, more intricate fighting system that even hardcore FGC groups find intimidating. I love both games, but they both specialize in different aspects.


Either way, you are in for a treat with both franchises. Both have excellent titles and longstanding communities.
 

Brofist

Member
I don’t think it had to do with learning curve or difficulty. I think Tekken’s popularity mirrored the home console situation at the time. The PlayStation was way more popular than the Saturn so in turn Tekken became more popular.
 

ChoosableOne

ChoosableAll
When i played Vf for the first time, i picked up Akira and closed the game after 5 minutes. It was boring, not so casual friendly. On the other hand, we played Tekken 3 demo for hours with my cousin. "Only the strong" movie was very popular back in the day and playing with Eddie felt awesome at that time.
 

NT80

Member
Tekken is far easier to get into as a 3D Fighter. VF is a more complex, more intricate fighting system that even hardcore FGC groups find intimidating. I love both games, but they both specialize in different aspects.


Either way, you are in for a treat with both franchises. Both have excellent titles and longstanding communities.
It's not quite true. VF has become much easier with the last version. At the beginner level it might still be easier to play Tekken but when you go beyond that and try to actually figure the game out Tekken becomes incredibly complicated. It also has a tiny buffering window meaning in some situations your waiting for the recovery point of a move or a block stagger before you can input a move and the timing might need to be precise. The combos are a lot more long winded most of the time too. VF's system is very rule based and easy to understand compared to Tekken's which is very loose and has tons of variables and exceptions. There's no easy way to explain tracking and sidestepping in Tekken for instance.
 

Griffon

Member
Guys don't be sour, just come play some Tekken, we actually have a live community in here (and decent netcode).
 
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Diddy X

Member
Because it came out on freakin Playstation, the same way some games 'failed' for the sole reason of coming out on a failed console, I can think of many examples.
 
Looking with 2021 eyes, you sometimes forget Tekken was on life control with part 4, they started gaining momentum back with 5 and 6.
 

Miles708

Member
Because Virtual Fighter isn't a good game, it's a tech demo. The first game was a tech demo, the 2nd game was a tech demo, the 3rd game was the definition of a tech demo, the 4th was a tech demo on the PS2, and the 5th was a tech demo on the Xbox 360.

All the Virtua Fighters are badly designed but marketed as 'deep', have zero content, a stapled together plot, and characters no one cares about. It looks pretty tho.

I mean, you could have a point if we choose to completely ignore both the gameplay system and the technical achievements of the Virtua Fighter series.

I'm not sure why we should do that, though.
 

synce

Member
Presentation.

It has nothing to do with complexity, difficulty, whatever, where I'd argue Tekken is actually much deeper and harder to play at a high level. VF will always be a failure until Sega realizes they need more charismatic, well-developed characters, and more robust single player content. At the BARE MINIMUM they should've added character specific endings, but we're 5 games in and that's never happened.
 
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Presentation.

It has nothing to do with complexity, difficulty, whatever, where I'd argue Tekken is actually much deeper and harder to play at a high level. VF will always be a failure until Sega realizes they need more charismatic, well-developed characters, and more robust single player content. At the BARE MINIMUM they should've added character specific endings, but we're 5 games in and that's never happened.
I'll also add there's only so many games the hardcore fighting scene can prop up. Virtual Fighter, while technical, is vanilla. It has no personality when you place it side by side with Street Fighter, Tekken, Guilty Gear, Mortal Kombat, or any of the other more obscure anime fighters. The best thing that could happen to this franchise is a complete visual overhaul.
 

JeloSWE

Member
For me it ugly, ugly characters, ugly graphics, ugly floating looking combos, and just ugly looking animations in general. Lastly to put the nail in the coffin, it seems a bit to technical, like why do you want to keep track of left or right stance with each character.
 
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