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[ToTTenTranz]

no shit. Why is it that Valve's attempt gained actual popularity while OneXPlayer and Aya's did not?

Because Valve promoted their handheld in their own storefront that gets 120 million monthly active users. The others can't do that.

Cool, but that doesn't change what I said that it's still customized and made for the Deck.

Yet it still fails miserably at playing games from most of the other distribution platforms.

Even on Laptops, which are closer to a desktop than a handheld, Windows isn't ideal. Windows 11 was designed for touch interfaces and even then it's clunky and hard to use on the ally.

Windows is used on over a billion devices globally.
Reality simply doesn't match your prejudice.

I'm "mindlessly" hating on Windows because it's not designed for handheld computers.

At least you admit you're hating. That's a start.

They were doing it to grow linux as an OS, they made the Deck and SteamOS3 with the intention of getting other PC makers to partner with them and put SteamOS/other Linux distribuions on prebuilt PCs/handheld pcs. Windows was never really part of the plan...

Windows is obviously part of the plan the moment it's the OS that provides Valve with the highest revenue by far. 97% of the computers with Steam installed have Windows and SteamOS3 isn't readily available for other hardware, so it's obvious they were counting with Windows handhelds to grow their install base.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I just want a Steam Deck with better screen, that's it. How's the screen on that thing?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I stalled when comparing the Ally and Deck that ultimately I decided to get neither and keep working on my PS5/Switch/psvr2 backlog and current games.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Do all these handhelds actually work when there's no internet signal?

 

[64bitmodels]

Do all these handhelds actually work when there's no internet signal?

yeah. Steam has an offline mode. these arent cloud systems

 

[OverHeat]

I just want a Steam Deck with better screen, that's it. How's the screen on that thing?

Much better!

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

A bit of a 'cringe' thread, i know, but i feel like this little dialogue i wrote sums up exactly where all these other handhelds pale in comparison to the Deck.

I will never understand the constant need to compare everything. It all depends on what type of experience you want which is why its good to have different options.

If you prefer windows, want a more powerful device and don't care about battery life because you plan to play with the handheld plugged into an outlet most of the time ... the Ally is probably better than the deck.

 

[drotahorror]

Having used the Ally for almost two weeks I think the issues people talk about it are inherently Windows issues and really depend on your comfort with the nitty gritty of the OS. I just set mine up exactly as I would with my Desktop gaming PC and its been pretty good. Do yourself a favor and plug in a keyboard and mouse, set up everything the way you want, remove bloatware and unnnecessary Windows stuff, then you're golden.

Which oddly enough, is sort of what I did/do with the deck. I hook up to TV, use a logitech kb/m all in one thing, and install / remove shit I want to. Deck can be as complicated as you make it.

 

[Sorcerer]

I think that the fact that Valve is more invested in the deck than other portable creators, (excluding Nintendo, of course they are the Kings of portable console gaming and started this whole thing).
Valve makes the machine but also makes money when people buy games for Steam. Therefore, I believe they are going to offer the better software experience (or are working on it for the long-term). In fact buy a Rog and Valve is still winning. Your not buying games from ASUS.
Players like ROG simply put out the machine and their profits end after the point of sale. I'm pretty sure players in the game like Asus have to scramble to put out a new device rather quickly. Steam can coast a little because they make money off of software sales and can refine the experience. Admittedly, they really dropped the ball with the first round of Steam Machines, but trying to turn the world around to native Linux gaming was never going to work.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Of course it's still better, it doesn't have windows pre-installed.

 

[64bitmodels]

I think that the fact that Valve is more invested in the deck than other portable creators, (excluding Nintendo, of course they are the Kings of portable console gaming and started this whole thing).
Valve makes the machine but also makes money when people buy games for Steam. Therefore, I believe they are going to offer the better software experience (or are working on it for the long-term). In fact buy a Rog and Valve is still winning. Your not buying games from ASUS.
Players like ROG simply put out the machine and their profits end after the point of sale. I'm pretty sure players in the game like Asus have to scramble to put out a new device rather quickly. Steam can coast a little because they make money off of software sales and can refine the experience. Admittedly, they really dropped the ball with the first round of Steam Machines, but trying to turn the world around to native Linux gaming was never going to work.

this is true and it's a bit of a sad reality about the whole thing... However it wouldn't be as much of an issue if these handhelds just came with SteamOS3 preinstalled.

A lot of the best stuff about the steam deck comes from the amazingly optimized software experience. The 1080p/125hz, less efficient processor and battery life would still be an issue, but ultimately a lot of the ease of use comes from SteamOS just being designed for handhelds. Even many people in this thread are saying it, these handhelds would be better off without Windows. any software stack devs tried making on their own without open source ends up falling on its face in comparison like armory crate or the Ayaneo software. it's not even an entirely Windows problem either, Valve has just spent 10 years perfecting this shit.

Using HoloISO on one of these alternative handhelds gets you 70% of the way there, which is why im not saying they're bad or that you shouldn't buy them outright. If these guys partnered with valve for them to optimize SteamOS3 for their systems, I probably wouldn't be making this thread... Well, i would, but it'd be less harsh

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

I think its fine that folks like OP still enjoy their steam deck. Valve will continue to itterate on the hardware (I hope) and continue to release new models. Personally I prefer something with more power and more features...but I also have almost every model of hand held PC mentioned in this thread, so admittedly I am not the core customer but more of a cautionary tale.

Rog >>>>>>>>> Deck (if you know what you are doing and like fine grain control over your settings) imo.

Deck > Rog if you have an Apple phone and want Stardew Valley to run at 60fps (i kid, i kid).

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The Switch has a fraction of the power of any handful PC yet it will soon become the best selling console of all time.

Power level don't mean shit on handheld devices.

 

[JCK75]

I think Deck is the best, SteamOS is finally ready for primetime and I'm so happy I have it..
I'm also glad there are others trying to outdo it and building the market.

 

[ReBurn]

it catapulted handheld PC gaming into the mainstream

Let's not get crazy. Steam Deck is great but it is still very much an enthusiast device. Not being available at retail is going to keep its reach limited.

 

[64bitmodels]

Power level don't mean shit on handheld devices.

yeah, game library does. And the Switch has a far better gaming library than any PC.... oh wait

 

[Shadowstar39]

Steam deck has trackpads that work like trackballs, mouse, and can be used for hot keys, radial menus (with game dedicated icons). They also have community controls that people make and upload. You can the. Make your own or download others tried and tested methods.

These other portables loose because it's not all about power. If that were so vita would of won against 3ds. The controls and options are paramount.

Steamdeck also has built in performance controls that let you tweak outside the game to save battery life. Deck is very forward thinking.

Maybe down the line if steam becomes open platform for other handheld and they have track pads thr things would change. Competition is good, but it needs to compete on everything, not just power.

I guess some people are content with controller based games. I have a switch for that. My deck plays pc games which have various control schemes.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I have a deck, I like it. I duall boot windows and steam os, will add a third boot for batocera so I can have my emulators and roms separate.

I thought about the Ally a lot and almost purchased one but decided I'm not buying another handheld PC until I can get one with an OLED screen. Fuck LCDs

 

[CrustyBritches]

Deck is going to be more appealing to average person because it's $385 for a 64GB unit+512GB microSD card, while the Ally runs $699. The Deck is still functional enough that I don't really feel the urge to upgrade at this point. Maybe another gen or 2 of AMD's 15-30W SoC's and I'll be ready. Hopefully Deck 2 will happen in late 2024 or early 2025.

I have a deck, I like it. I dual boot windows and steam os, will add a third boot for batocera so I can have my emulators and roms separate.

Same here. Dual-boot is the way to go because it gives you easy access to both GP PC and EGS. There are a couple quirks, but once you have it setup it works just fine.

 

[Tams]

For fuck's sake.

Even my 'gaming company CEO/head killed my pet' thread was better and of higher effort than this shit.

Go sit in a corner and think of what you've done.

 

[Tams]

In my work I support users on Windows touchscreen tablets. It's terrible.

Apple got it to work because iOS and iPadOS are completely designed around touch. Windows has never changed, it's the same core experience but with touch. It's literally like dropping a digitizer on Windows 98 and expecting it to be useable for touch and a modern experience LMAO.

Only that's not true.

I've used Windows tablets for about two decades now.

1. Old desktop UI is usable using a touchscreen. It's but great, but only idiots can't get by with it.
2. You barely touch the desktop UI over everything is set up on a gaming device.
3. Windows has gotten much better touch/reactive UI. For all its UI faults, Windows 11 is the beat touchscreen Windows UI there has been.
4. There are multiple overlays that are geared towards touch use. Have been for years.

You might well help people used touchscreens on Windows, but clearly you aren't knowledgeable about it. They should ask for a refund from you.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

And like that, a cohort of the PCMR has fallen to fanboyism. The Steam Deck Heresy has begun!

 

[delirium trigger]

I pulled the trigger on a deck a few days ago mostly because of the trackpads. It was a tough choice because I have game pass and obviously the rog is the machine for that. Now I'm finding out about linux and the anticheat bullshit. One of the main reasons I bought the thing was for Battlebit.

For as much windows sucks you can still do more with it.

 

[Quasicat]

I really want a Steam Deck, but I love my Oled Switch so much and it has two things that would be a setback for me…the Oled screen and (to a lesser extent) the battery life.
If they make an Oled screen Steam Deck, I’m in day 1!

 

[Shadowstar39]

if money is a concern then you shouldn't be buying either of them, its not designed for you, sorry.

softwarte can be updated, lacklustre first gen hardware cant

I hate this saying. Just because you are o a budget doesn't mean you aren't in the market. A steam deck clocks in at cheapest under $400 with the current sales. If you can buy a console you can buy a deck. It's like me with guitars. I could go out and spend $2k on a fender or Gibson or spend 500-800 on a Schecter, Ltd, or prs and be able to play just as well.

Another example, gpus. I won't spend more than $400ish. Doesn't mean I'm not in thr market for one. Just one in my price range. Imagine telling some if you can't afford a 4090 for $1800(or whatever insane price they are) then you shouldn't be gaming. It's really crazy. My 3060ti maxes everything.

 

[StereoVsn]

even in the case of the deck where you might need to use the linux desktop, you at least have the touchpads to make navigation easier. With the Rog ALLY it's just.... wtf man, this doesn't fucking work

I also have both Deck and Ally and I have had to use keyboard for both. For Deck, had to go to Linux mode and KBM was extremely helpful there for some util installs, emudeck, configs, etc.

And yeah on Ally it's super useful. On both you want KBM in general for Strategy games, but on the Deck you can get away using the touchpads with judicial mapping.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I pulled the trigger on a deck a few days ago mostly because of the trackpads. It was a tough choice because I have game pass and obviously the rog is the machine for that. Now I'm finding out about linux and the anticheat bullshit. One of the main reasons I bought the thing was for Battlebit.

For as much windows sucks you can still do more with it.

Take a few hours and setup a dualboot with windows so you can play those games.

 

[Filben]

Best thing about the Steam Deck is the price. Now even better with the discount. You get what you pay for. Obviously the Ally is better but you don't get the improvements for free. For 700EUR it is great, so is the SD for 420.

Personally, I rarely even need the Deck's power, let alone that of the Ally. Graphics intense game I'm playing on the PS5 or desktop PC on a big TV or 21:9 screen.

The Deck is for indies and prep PS2 era emulation. Best bang for the buck for 420 + 100 for a 1TB SD card.

 

[keefged4]

The Ally doesnt have trackpads /thread

 

[simpatico]

Same reasons a Mac is better for average users than a Windows laptop. Power users will probably want more.

 

[yet_another_alt]

Echoing a lot of the sentiment here that the Deck's biggest strength is its price. I already said it in the Ally thread, in terms of price, the Deck is competing with Switch while the Ally is competing with gaming laptops. The Ally's price is really good in comparison to most UMPCs. Honestly I was expecting it to be around $1000 like the others and was really surprised at the $700 announcement. If the Deck didn't exist I would probably have bought an Ally already. I still might get an Ally just because I love portables but I'm giving it more time til they iron out the bugs same with what I did for the Deck.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Steam Deck is essentially a console when it comes to running games compared to the other PC handhelds because of the SD’s lightweight OS and API’s.

The same reason Switch with it’s 3gb of ram for games, awful CPU and sub 200gflop GPU can run The Witcher 3, DOOM Eternal and Arkham Knight due to Nintendo and Nvidia’s API along with a fixed set of specs for developers to target.

 

[Tams]

Steam Deck is essentially a console when it comes to running games compared to the other PC handhelds because of the SD’s lightweight OS and API’s.

The same reason Switch with it’s 3gb of ram for games, awful CPU and sub 200gflop GPU can run The Witcher 3, DOOM Eternal and Arkham Knight due to Nintendo and Nvidia’s API along with a fixed set of specs for developers to target.

The only thing bloated about Windows is the installation size, and even then it's not that much bigger and most of it comes from having to try to support software from most of the history of home computing.

There's some telemetry and ad bloat, but really, that's very easy to remove.

 

[cartman414]

no shit. Why is it that Valve's attempt gained actual popularity while OneXPlayer and Aya's did not? Why did channels like Taki Udon start covering x86 handhelds more AFTER the Deck's release?
They did a lot more than just say "write that down"

Cool, but that doesn't change what I said that it's still customized and made for the Deck. 2020-2022 is a long time and a lot of revisions could've been made to the chip to work better with Valve's vision. Cancelled products mean nothing.

An experience so acceptable that Apple and Google completely fucked over Microsoft in the smartphone and tablet market despite Windows having been on tablets for years beforehand. It barely works. Even on Laptops, which are closer to a desktop than a handheld, Windows isn't ideal. Windows 11 was designed for touch interfaces and even then it's clunky and hard to use on the ally.

I'm "mindlessly" hating on Windows because it's not designed for handheld computers. Or handheld anything, really. Windows works on a desktop PC best. This is the problem with it.


They were doing it to grow linux as an OS, they made the Deck and SteamOS3 with the intention of getting other PC makers to partner with them and put SteamOS/other Linux distribuions on prebuilt PCs/handheld pcs. Windows was never really part of the plan...

Android (which was bought by Google) is inferior to Windows and only became Apple's primary contender because 1) Google's reach, and 2) Microsoft being asleep at the wheel.

 

[mcjmetroid]

I don't have either. I'm waiting for an updated steam deck which is a little smaller but the fact that games are optimised for steam deck specifically is a great sign.

I can imagine the other handhelds being busy work to get anything working...

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

The only thing bloated about Windows is the installation size, and even then it's not that much bigger and most of it comes from having to try to support software from most of the history of home computing.

There's some telemetry and ad bloat, but really, that's very easy to remove.

I totally get that for a desktop but for a handheld (which is massively dependent on a limited power and thermal budget) every single percentage point of performance you can claw back means a ton. In 2015 no one ever thought The Witcher 3, Arkham Knight and Doom could be done on Switch and the main reason they’re even remotely possible on such absolutely horrific hardware is mainly due to their API’s which squeeze every fraction of a fraction of juice from it while the hardware only has to worry about the games and a tiny and very basic OS footprint in the background.

Doesn’t Windows require more RAM for a start compared to Steam OS? The background processes of non gaming tasks is also going to eat up CPU cycles and drive calculations while running the games unless the latest Windows solves all of this?

I’m open to learn as I’m considering a new desktop myself at the moment (probably a 4070TI rig).

 

[64bitmodels]

The only thing bloated about Windows is the installation size, and even then it's not that much bigger and most of it comes from having to try to support software from most of the history of home computing.

which linux manages to do seamlessly thanks to WINE while also not running as slow or using as much power... People manage to play a lot of older Windows software really well on SteamOS.

But on topic, Windows is bloated, by handheld standards. if you are playing on a gaming portable, here's some apps you likely won't need

Tiktok: you have a web browser. use it
Instagram: ditto.
Mail: this should be an opt in.
Solitaire Collection: Who buys a 600$ gaming handheld to play fucking Solitaire
Your Phone: You likely won't be using this when you'd also probably have your phone with you on the go
OneNote: you can use a TXT file
Office: Even if you were doing office work on a handheld gaming PC, this should still be an opt in
3D Viewer: just use blender
etc etc etc. If you're playing on something like an Ally or a Deck, you don't need allat.

You could cut down on the Windows install size dramatically if you removed a lot of this shit. Just look at Tiny11.
If you wanted to be more serious about it you could have a bunch of the microsoft bundled software replaced with lightweight open source versions. Like replacing Media player/Movies & music with VLC, or Edge with Firefox/Brave, Notepad with Notepad++, etc etc

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Same reasons a Mac is better for average users than a Windows laptop. Power users will probably want more.

MacBooks are infinitely better than windows laptops for “power users”.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

let me guess.... because no windows?

 

[Tams]

which linux manages to do seamlessly thanks to WINE while also not running as slow or using as much power... People manage to play a lot of older Windows software really well on SteamOS.

But on topic, Windows is bloated, by handheld standards. if you are playing on a gaming portable, here's some apps you likely won't need

Tiktok: you have a web browser. use it
Instagram: ditto.
Mail: this should be an opt in.
Solitaire Collection: Who buys a 600$ gaming handheld to play fucking Solitaire
Your Phone: You likely won't be using this when you'd also probably have your phone with you on the go
OneNote: you can use a TXT file
Office: Even if you were doing office work on a handheld gaming PC, this should still be an opt in
3D Viewer: just use blender
etc etc etc. If you're playing on something like an Ally or a Deck, you don't need allat.

You could cut down on the Windows install size dramatically if you removed a lot of this shit. Just look at Tiny11.
If you wanted to be more serious about it you could have a bunch of the microsoft bundled software replaced with lightweight open source versions. Like replacing Media player/Movies & music with VLC, or Edge with Firefox/Brave, Notepad with Notepad++, etc etc

If you actually read the WINE compatibility charts/database though, do many programs do not run well.

MS Office for instance often never works well.

 

[M.W.]

Negative. Love the Ally. It's what I wish the deck was initially.

 

[Superbean]

Ya cause having to fiddle with proton8654.hotdogedition to get a game to work eventually after the DRM activation limit expires for 24 hours is a lot of fun. Certainly this is a much better experience than just clicking install and then clicking play right

 

[Klosshufvud]

This thread really highlights what an exciting frontier of technology handheld PCs are. They're all fairly flawed but also highly potent and versatile devices. With the state of dedicated GPUs (and the fact that high-end gaming is basically stagnated), the field of discussion has instead turned to these low power devices. We're absolutely still in this storm of changes with rapid improvements being done in very short time periods. Reminds me of when smartphones were new and the paradigms were shifted on a consistent basis. It's going to take a bit longer but I don't think we're that far off from the handheld gaming PC. One that truly is the jack-of-all-trades device. I would almost want to call Steam Deck that but I think needs a revision or two before it fully matures into a complete device.

 

[RobRSG]

A functional Sleep Mode is the killer feature for the Steam Deck against the other beefier portable devices.

 

[baphomet]

If you want to play games you want Windows.

That's just how it is.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I like the Deck for its ease of use. Tempted by the Ally but I suck at computers and it just seems like there is too much fiddling around on the settings to get the games running good. The 2nd Gen of the Deck will hopefully have a better screen and be able to run all new releases, instead of some , and have more battery life.

 

[Thaedolus]

Having used the Ally for almost two weeks I think the issues people talk about it are inherently Windows issues and really depend on your comfort with the nitty gritty of the OS. I just set mine up exactly as I would with my Desktop gaming PC and its been pretty good. Do yourself a favor and plug in a keyboard and mouse, set up everything the way you want, remove bloatware and unnnecessary Windows stuff, then you're golden.

The thing is, the “it just works” factor is pretty key to the user experience. I’m no stranger to PC gaming and Windows, but fuck if I want to want to spend hours tinkering with the thing just to run Steam titles. Sure, I have the option and have added emulators and such to my Steam Deck, but out of the box it just worked for like 95% of the games I tried on it, without overheating to the point of dismounting my SD card.

Jeff Gerstmann’s review of the Ally pretty much explains the difference between the two.

If you want to play games you want Windows.

That's just how it is.

On desktop sure, but Proton on Steam Deck is nothing short of fantastic in almost all circumstances.

 

[baphomet]

On desktop sure, but Proton on Steam Deck is nothing short of fantastic in almost all circumstances.

Proton supports maybe 2/3rds of my games on Steam. So that right there is ~300 games of mine that just don't work on the Deck. Forget the hassle of trying to add other launchers as Steam apps just to be able to access any other games I own.

With Windows I've yet to come across a game that doesn't work.

 

[64bitmodels]

Proton supports maybe 2/3rds of my games on Steam. So that right there is ~300 games of mine that just don't work on the Deck.

Whether Valve says it's supported or not really doesn't mean shit.

More often than not they're lowballing the amount of compatible games. Stuff that they say isn't playable might actually work (but has a UI not well suited for the deck's control scheme)

 

[Thaedolus]

Proton supports maybe 2/3rds of my games on Steam. So that right there is ~300 games of mine that just don't work on the Deck. Forget the hassle of trying to add other launchers as Steam apps just to be able to access any other games I own.

With Windows I've yet to come across a game that doesn't work.

Whether Valve says it's supported or not really doesn't mean shit.

More often than not they're lowballing the amount of compatible games. Stuff that they say isn't playable might actually work (but has a UI not well suited for the deck's control scheme)

^

In my practical experience, there's like one Steam game I own- Persona 5 Strikers- which is playable but has some annoyances like no sound during cutscenes via Proton, and apparently that's some sort of codec licensing issue. Everything else has just worked out of the box or with very minimal tinkering, regardless of its verification status.

And if it's really a problem, you can put Windows on a Steam Deck and it sounds like it works better than with the Ally.