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[NeoIkaruGAF]

Perfectly paced

Hmm, pacing always lulls a bit around the time you get the hookshot, imo. The Dark World suddenly opens up significantly after being heavily gated to guide you towards the first two dungeons, but then it takes a while to understand what to do next. The third and fourth Dark World dungeons were always pretty dull for me, being so close geographically and pretty gimmicky, especially the third. And then the final three may take a while to figure out. You basically have to stumble upon #5 and #7, while #6 requires the only mandatory use of the flute in the entire game.
It kinda feels like a really modern (for its time) game until Dark World dungeon #2, guiding you subtly but steadily in the right direction. Then it’s back to its Zelda 1 roots, going around quite blindly until you crash into the next dungeon.

One a sidenote: is my mind playing tricks on me or did one of the dungeons require you to take the boss key from another dungeon? I recall that's how I had to finish one of the dungeons...

Your memory is playing tricks on you.
ALTTP is the Zelda game that introduces keys specific to the dungeon they’re found in. I think you can use small keys in any dungeon, but the way the game is made discourages this. Boss keys can definitely only be used in their respective dungeons.

I tried out Link Between Worlds earlier today... doesn't hold a candle to LTTP. It's ugly. Too minimalistic (in terms of 3D) to even have a good art design. Really disappointing, never played that one before but was very let down.

The problem I have with ALBW is that it’s too easy to buy all the items, opening up the game too quickly. Then for an ALTTP veteran it’s just a matter of going where you already know the dungeons are. ALBW is a remake after all, no matter how much some people like to insist it’s a sequel or whatever.

 

[sigmaZ]

When you accept removing the bloat, you get games like these. Welcome to the 16 bits era, you have a ton of games to discover. Enjoy!

Tell me about it. One thing I hate about the Breath of the Wild games is the bloat. The amount of redundant text from NPCS (non-story parts) is mind boggling. Just tell me what I need to know or make a quick joke and shut up. I have real life for conversations.

 

[sigmaZ]

Hmm, pacing always lulls a bit around the time you get the hookshot, imo. The Dark World suddenly opens up significantly after being heavily gated to guide you towards the first two dungeons, but then it takes a while to understand what to do next. The third and fourth Dark World dungeons were always pretty dull for me, being so close geographically and pretty gimmicky, especially the third. And then the final three may take a while to figure out. You basically have to stumble upon #5 and #7, while #6 requires the only mandatory use of the flute in the entire game.
It kinda feels like a really modern (for its time) game until Dark World dungeon #2, guiding you subtly but steadily in the right direction. Then it’s back to its Zelda 1 roots, going around quite blindly until you crash into the next dungeon.



Your memory is playing tricks on you.
ALTTP is the Zelda game that introduces keys specific to the dungeon they’re found in. I think you can use small keys in any dungeon, but the way the game is made discourages this. Boss keys can definitely only be used in their respective dungeons.



The problem I have with ALBW is that it’s too easy to buy all the items, opening up the game too quickly. Then for an ALTTP veteran it’s just a matter of going where you already know the dungeons are. ALBW is a remake after all, no matter how much some people like to insist it’s a sequel or whatever.

The dark world is the Breath of the Wild of LttP. lol

 

[Bernardougf]

After playing this piece of overhyped and overratade openworld game no wonder you will find past more linear zelda 2d and 3d games awesome .. because they are

 

[Moonjt9]

Still the best Zelda game. God the snes was SO good.

 

[L*][*N*K]

That rainy night when you go after your uncle is the moment I fell in love with gaming

 

[EruditeHobo]

That rainy night when you go after your uncle is the moment I fell in love with gaming

Sooooo good. Hard to convey to anyone who didn't see it at the time how amazing that was.
One of the best moments in all gaming, probably.

 

[sigmaZ]

Sooooo good. Hard to convey to anyone who didn't see it at the time how amazing that was.
One of the best moments in all gaming, probably.

Yeah. I loved the feeling that evoked. And how you go out unarmed, unsure of what awaits you.

 

[StueyDuck]

Proper Zelda games are amazing. And a link to the past essentially created the perfect Zelda formula

I had to dust off my wii u cause of that apparent bricking if you don't turn it on and I've been fighting myself not to slap on some Wildwaker again.

So good.

 

[sigmaZ]

Proper Zelda games are amazing. And a link to the past essentially created the perfect Zelda formula

I had to dust off my wii u cause of that apparent bricking if you don't turn it on and I've been fighting myself not to slap on some Wildwaker again.

So good.

Windwaker was amazing. I had no TV when that game out, so I was forced to play through a crappy capture card on my PC, but I still enjoyed the heck out of it. I remember the backlash it got from the artstyle though lol

 

[StueyDuck]

Windwaker was amazing. I had no TV when that game out, so I was forced to play through a crappy capture card on my PC, but I still enjoyed the heck out of it. I remember the backlash it got from the artstyle though lol

The backlash was always crazy.

I still got that edition that came with a pseudo ocarina of time remaster as well in a dual case for GC.

So young me kept hopping between to two and being like wow the graphics are soo good now haha

 

[MagnesD3]

You are wrong and I deeply resent the misinformation that you are spreading. I have a hacked Wii U with everything on it and a pile of controllers. I keep a Nintendo 64 near it specifically for Ocarina of Time, Starfox and Goldeneye because those three games need the OG controller or else are essentially ruined.

I played OOT Master Quest on Gamecube in a room full of people who had played OOT, watching and taking turns. It was obvious to everyone (who actually played through the game already on the 64) that the new controller was worse for this game. It's brazenly obvious to anyone who played the game on original hardware. Mario 64? Doesn't really matter, play it on anything.

What you are saying is that you don't like the N64 controller. I can respect that opinion (even if I disagree). I'll even give you that GC is a much, much better design. Had OOT been designed for GC controller, that would be nice. But it wasn't, it was designed around the 64 controller and using anything else only adds jank to what should be a perfect all-time gaming experience.

No dude you are wrong, the n64 controller is objectively terribly designed, it is one of the most unintuitive controllers ever made in video games. It sounds like you and your friends have nostalgia for it.

I'd say I've beaten around 500 or so different video games in my life time and I've touched alot of different controllers and its worse than the Wii U gamepad or a Dreamcast controller which isn't great. Every N64 game plays like a DREAM on a GameCube Controller, it gives the player full control and is very similar to modern day Controllers, the big difference being of course is how so seamlessly the C Stick corresponds to the C Button inputs of the N64 games.

Nah dude if I could never touch an N64 controller again to play those old games with a GameCube Controller I'd do it every time, this is coming from someone btw who the N64 was thier "1st gaming console" I have an insane amount of experience with the horrible thing, if anyone should have Nostalgia for it it would be me because half of my top 10 favorite games come from that awful console, its so poorly designed I would forget how to properly hold it because there is no instinctual proper way as it always feels uncomfortable (the work around to make it better I found as an adult was to use the joy stick as a baby arcade stick as this gives you the most control of the damn thing).

And there's probably some of your mistake right there with the Wii U emulation, if I recall alot of those Virtual Console ports had latency issues that the Wii ports didn't have, I know Paper Mario for sure had this issue.

 

[BlackTron]

Reread my post. It's the slow underwater movement. No way to just swim, much less the lack of, say, the Zora Mask from Majora's Mask.

Opinions I guess. When I first played it, I thought the slow underwater movement just made it more realistic, cool and sim-like. Especially with the underwater echo effects. Majora's Mask gives you more options but the games were designed around the options given so both work. If you could swim in OOT (as a Zora or not), the entire dungeon would be designed differently. And it's not like the whole dungeon is underwater...you usually put on the boots to get through some underwater passageway and took them off on the other side. And there might be some switches, enemies or latching points down there to hit with the hookshot. Talking about it in the context of TOTK makes me want to go back and play it. At least you could go underwater at all! lol

No dude you are wrong, the n64 controller is objectively terribly designed, it is one of the most unintuitive controllers ever made in video games. It's sounds like you and your friends have nostalgia for it.

Well when Master Quest came out, everyone was using GC controllers to play new games. Nobody noticed this nerf and felt "nostalgic" for N64 until playing OOT on GC. Nobody wanted to go back for, say, Smash.

I'd say I've beaten around 500 or so different video games in my life time and I've touched alot of different controllers and its worse than the Wii U gamepad or a Dreamcast controller which isn't great. Every N64 game plays like a DREAM on a GameCube Controller, it gives the player full control and is very similar to modern day Controllers, the big difference being of course is how so seamlessly the C Stick corresponds to the C Button inputs of the N64 games.

This is the same as saying any function mapped to a button is equally good mapped to a stick direction. Some games need a 6 button controller and mapping those things to a stick is a compromise/nerf because it's all you have, not an improvement. For other games it doesn't really matter.

Nah dude if I could never touch an N64 controller again to play those old games with a GameCube Controller I'd do it every time, this is coming from someone btw who the N64 was thier "1st gaming console" I have an insane amount experience with the horrible thing, if anyone should have Nostalgia for it it would be me because half of my top 10 favorite games come from that awful console, its so poorly designed I would forget how to properly hold it because there is no instinctual proper way as it always feels uncomfortable (the work around to make it better I found as an adult was to use the joy stick as a baby arcade stick as this gives you the most control of the damn thing).

And there's probably some of your mistake right there with the Wii U emulation, if I recall alot of those Virtual Console ports had latency issues that the Wii ports didn't have, I know Paper Mario for sure had this issue.

I agree that the N64 controller was VERY unintuitively designed. I remember watching adults use it at a demo kiosk in 1996 not knowing how to hold it -many people didn't know to hold the middle handle for 99% of games and demo'd Mario 64 by holding the left handle and stretching their thumb across. Of course since we are gaming nerds on a forum nearly 30 years later we don't really have that problem. Maybe you never knew how to hold it to begin with?

If you can figure out the right way to hold it for the game you are playing, which is not that hard unless you are a ten year old and never looked at the game manual, the stick is much more accurate with a smaller dead zone, which is immediately apparent to anyone who spent a lot of time aiming with it getting medals and unlocking cheats in Starfox and 007. The C buttons also allow precision adjustments on the intended axis in 007. The GC controller will allow you to play the games but if you want to take them seriously it's a handicap. I don't need to ask if you got all the medals and cheats using a GC controller because I know that would be infuriatingly impossible. This is also apparent playing the archery range in OOT. It's a breeze on original hardware. I aced it as a kid. Trying to do it on GC sucks.

Last year I tried Starfox on the Wii (not Wii U). The picture was so good I was almost willing to let it go and use a GC controller. So I hooked up a N64 to the TV at the same time and played both by changing inputs to directly compare. N64 picture was garbage but the aiming ease and accuracy so completely destroyed Wii/GC that based on that alone, in a SHOOTING game, I had to just give up and go with OG hardware. I solved the image problem with a CRT, but this was kinda the moment I knew I needed one for sure.

 

[SleepySlippy]

Play Ocarina of Time and then drop Majora's Mask back to back. Preferably the 3DS editions, cause even if the purists are gonna hang me for recommending remasters - the originals are fugly with locked 20fps gameplay. I ain't going back to that.

I’d love to play it, but isn’t the size of the 3DS disappointing to play those games?

 

[Ulysses 31]

Last year I tried Starfox on the Wii (not Wii U). The picture was so good I was almost willing to let it go and use a GC controller. So I hooked up a N64 to the TV at the same time and played both by changing inputs to directly compare. N64 picture was garbage but the aiming ease and accuracy so completely destroyed Wii/GC that based on that alone, in a SHOOTING game, I had to just give up and go with OG hardware. I solved the image problem with a CRT, but this was kinda the moment I knew I needed one for sure.

Also could've gone with an OSSC or Retrotink 5X to get decent scanlines and connect legacy hardware to modern HDMI displays.

Or if you're an hardcore N64 user, mod it with the N64Digital from PixelFX to get direct HDMI output and optional horizontal AND vertical scanlines for even better CRT look.

 

[MagnesD3]

Opinions I guess. When I first played it, I thought the slow underwater movement just made it more realistic, cool and sim-like. Especially with the underwater echo effects. Majora's Mask gives you more options but the games were designed around the options given so both work. If you could swim in OOT (as a Zora or not), the entire dungeon would be designed differently. And it's not like the whole dungeon is underwater...you usually put on the boots to get through some underwater passageway and took them off on the other side. And there might be some switches, enemies or latching points down there to hit with the hookshot. Talking about it in the context of TOTK makes me want to go back and play it. At least you could go underwater at all! lol

Well when Master Quest came out, everyone was using GC controllers to play new games. Nobody noticed this nerf and felt "nostalgic" for N64 until playing OOT on GC. Nobody wanted to go back for, say, Smash.



This is the same as saying any function mapped to a button is equally good mapped to a stick direction. Some games need a 6 button controller and mapping those things to a stick is a compromise/nerf because it's all you have, not an improvement. For other games it doesn't really matter.



I agree that the N64 controller was VERY unintuitively designed. I remember watching adults use it at a demo kiosk in 1996 not knowing how to hold it -many people didn't know to hold the middle handle for 99% of games and demo'd Mario 64 by holding the left handle and stretching their thumb across. Of course since we are gaming nerds on a forum nearly 30 years later we don't really have that problem. Maybe you never knew how to hold it to begin with?

If you can figure out the right way to hold it for the game you are playing, which is not that hard unless you are a ten year old and never looked at the game manual, the stick is much more accurate with a smaller dead zone, which is immediately apparent to anyone who spent a lot of time aiming with it getting medals and unlocking cheats in Starfox and 007. The C buttons also allow precision adjustments on the intended axis in 007. The GC controller will allow you to play the games but if you want to take them seriously it's a handicap. I don't need to ask if you got all the medals and cheats using a GC controller because I know that would be infuriatingly impossible. This is also apparent playing the archery range in OOT. It's a breeze on original hardware. I aced it as a kid. Trying to do it on GC sucks.

Last year I tried Starfox on the Wii (not Wii U). The picture was so good I was almost willing to let it go and use a GC controller. So I hooked up a N64 to the TV at the same time and played both by changing inputs to directly compare. N64 picture was garbage but the aiming ease and accuracy so completely destroyed Wii/GC that based on that alone, in a SHOOTING game, I had to just give up and go with OG hardware. I solved the image problem with a CRT, but this was kinda the moment I knew I needed one for sure.

As for the C Stick mapping it was about its location and ease of use, the modern twin stick controller formula is absolutely the best way to play video games so the fact the C Stick is where it is on the GCN controller makes it the perfect spot for use especially when the N64 games never require the player to use the second joystick since they didn't have one original so your not missing out on anything. I'm sure there are better modern controllers than GCN nowadays to play those old games but if you want the CRT look with no latency on a competent controller I will always recommend the Wii version with a GCN controller for most of these games.

Maybe but definitely don't think nintendo wanted kids to play an N64 controller like an Street Fighter Arcade Stick but that's the way to do it. Being able to use your thumb like a modern controller just feels so much better.

To be fair I will say I haven't played 007 with a GCN since it wasn't an option on the Wii (I'm pretty sure it wasn't on the VC) so no comment. I have played Starfox and it played like a dream, never had a problem there, I didn't go for medals on it tho (did on 64 tho along time ago), but I have no clue why Starfox on GCN would be more difficult at all to get those medals, it's not like the C buttons had much to do with the precision required to get those..
The OoT thing might just be a muscle memory thing for you who knows I don't remember struggling with it but I was 23 when I beat OoT for the first time so that was almost 10 years ago.

Oh yeah you definitely gotta have a CRT for the old stuff, it looks so much better. Yeah man Idk you may just prefer the original control scheme since that's what you are used to, tho I'm surprised, I could swear the Wii versions run better as I don't remember those games chugging as bad so that's another big bonus (could be wrong though). I was surprised at how much I fell in love with the GCN controller layout on N64 games back in the day but once I figured it out I never looked back, it just worked and felt like an actual controller. Anywho I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Business]

I replayed it fairly recently and it was worst than I remembered. The Link's Awakening remake I had played just before was much more enjoyable.

 

[BlackTron]

Also could've gone with an OSSC or Retrotink 5X to get decent scanlines and connect legacy hardware to modern HDMI displays.

Or if you're an hardcore N64 user, mod it with the N64Digital from PixelFX to get direct HDMI output and optional horizontal AND vertical scanlines for even better CRT look.

Yeah I know, figured I may as well go all-in. CRT was twenty bucks and has the benefit of being the real thing. It's the only reason I use my real NES/SNES/GEN/DC, I'd just emulate those on something with an HDMI port otherwise. They all feel better on real hardware with CRT sure, but aren't impacted nearly as much as N64. For example DC even has the exact same button layout as Xbox.

As for the C Stick mapping it was about its location and ease of use, the modern twin stick controller formula is absolutely the best way to play video games so the fact the C Stick is where it is on the GCN controller makes it the perfect spot for use especially when the N64 games never require the player to use the second joystick since they didn't have one original so your not missing out on anything.

Sorry this seems really all over the place. Yeah twin stick modern controller is best design, the problem is N64 games were not designed for it. N64 games had no second stick, so they aren't missing anything...other than the face buttons that were sacrificed to get a C stick. Again, this comes down to implying that everything that was mapped to a button is equally good on a stick. Maybe if you are casually blowing through the game, and have no basis of how effective the original control scheme was to compare to.

I'm sure there are better modern controllers than GCN nowadays to play those old games but if you want the CRT look with no latency on a competent controller I will always recommend the GCN Wii version for most of these games.

Maybe but definitely don't think nintendo wanted kids to play an N64 controller like an Street Fighter Arcade Stick but that's the way to do it.

Kids, don't use it like an arcade stick, really. If you're confused, here is some help. Just don't hold the left handle and stretch your hand across to use the stick. Left handle is for D-pad only.

Now that this pic is there, this may seem nuts but I use the D-pad position for Game Boy games. Why? Because it has a solid old school Nintendo D-pad and the A/B buttons are clearly defined and in the correct place. Why not just use a NES controller? Because GBA also had L/R buttons. N64 is the ONLY controller with all of these features. It's also a 6-button PC controller and literally the most accurate control stick you own (assuming it still works). All you need to do is get over figuring out how to hold it for which game you're playing and it covers all the blind spots left by modern gamepads. A modern pad *and* N64 controller is a broad combo.

To be fair I will say I haven't played 007 with a GCN since it wasn't an option on the Wii (I'm pretty sure it wasn't on the VC) so no comment. I have played Starfox and it played like a dream, never had a problem there, I didn't go for medals on it tho (did on 64 tho along time ago), but I have no clue why Starfox on GCN would be more difficult at all to get those medals, it's not like the C buttons had much to do with the precision required to get those..
The OoT thing might just be a muscle memory thing who knows I don't remember struggling with it but I was 23 when I beat OoT for the first time so that was almost 10 years ago.

Oh yeah you definitely gotta have a CRT for the old stuff, it looks so much better. Yeah man Idk you may just prefer the original control scheme since that's what you are used to, tho I'm surprised, I could swear the Wii versions run better as I don't remember those games chugging as bad so that's another big bonus (could be wrong though). I was surprised at how much I fell in love with the GCN controller layout on N64 games back in the day but once I figured it out I never looked back, it just worked and felt like an actual controller. Anywho I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

Wii versions *run* very well, they look great, they were a designed for a different controller. Some games the control scheme doesn't really matter too much, like Mario 64, I mean in that game having C buttons on C stick is fine. They control camera. You could get used to the new scheme in other games, like Star Fox, but because they are focused on shooting, you want the more precise stick with smaller dead zone that you already got used to instead of feeling nerfed for conveniences' sake.

"Ocarina" is in the name of the Zelda game and playing the ocarina is a complete garbage mess using a stick. Which can be tolerated but again, it's just tolerating. There is no problem on the OG. Agree to disagree!

 

[Ulysses 31]

Wii versions *run* very well, they look great, they were a designed for a different controller. Some games the control scheme doesn't really matter too much, like Mario 64, I mean in that game having C buttons on C stick is fine. They control camera. You could get used to the new scheme in other games, like Star Fox, but because they are focused on shooting, you want the more precise stick with smaller dead zone that you already got used to instead of feeling nerfed for conveniences' sake.

"Ocarina" is in the name of the Zelda game and playing the ocarina is a complete garbage mess using a stick. Which can be tolerated but again, it's just tolerating. There is no problem on the OG. Agree to disagree!

Good thing there's modern solutions for N64 gaming!

Retro Brawler 64!

Either wired or wireless version.

Playing on OG N64 controllers is hard to do after decades of modern gamepads...

 

[BlackTron]

Good thing there's modern solutions for N64 gaming!

Retro Brawler 64!

Either wired or wireless version.

Playing on OG N64 controllers is hard to do after decades of modern gamepads...

I looked at these new controllers, really not bad. It solves half the problem, you get a 6 button controller. The stick is the same kind of modern stick that would fail my Starfox test. Much better than a normal controller though and nobody will be confused holding it right. I would just rather spend the same $ on a N64 controller adapter leaving no holes in the solution. Great for Smash though.

 

[Moses85]

 

[Ulysses 31]

I looked at these new controllers, really not bad. It solves half the problem, you get a 6 button controller. The stick is the same kind of modern stick that would fail my Starfox test. Much better than a normal controller though and nobody will be confused holding it right. I would just rather spend the same $ on a N64 controller adapter leaving no holes in the solution. Great for Smash though.

Ehm, I'm not sure about that. Aiming in Turok was noticeably better for me with the Brawler64 and I was having kind of the same issue as this guy with the OG N64 controller.


My N64 is gone for an HDMI mod so I can't test out Sar Fox 64 specifically ATM.

 

[Thaedolus]

OP really missed the mark for this LTTP LttP thread titling opportunity

 

[Musashipan]

Every main Zelda game is at least excellent

 

[MagnesD3]

Yeah I know, figured I may as well go all-in. CRT was twenty bucks and has the benefit of being the real thing. It's the only reason I use my real NES/SNES/GEN/DC, I'd just emulate those on something with an HDMI port otherwise. They all feel better on real hardware with CRT sure, but aren't impacted nearly as much as N64. For example DC even has the exact same button layout as Xbox.


Sorry this seems really all over the place. Yeah twin stick modern controller is best design, the problem is N64 games were not designed for it. N64 games had no second stick, so they aren't missing anything...other than the face buttons that were sacrificed to get a C stick. Again, this comes down to implying that everything that was mapped to a button is equally good on a stick. Maybe if you are casually blowing through the game, and have no basis of how effective the original control scheme was to compare to.



Kids, don't use it like an arcade stick, really. If you're confused, here is some help. Just don't hold the left handle and stretch your hand across to use the stick. Left handle is for D-pad only.



Now that this pic is there, this may seem nuts but I use the D-pad position for Game Boy games. Why? Because it has a solid old school Nintendo D-pad and the A/B buttons are clearly defined and in the correct place. Why not just use a NES controller? Because GBA also had L/R buttons. N64 is the ONLY controller with all of these features. It's also a 6-button PC controller and literally the most accurate control stick you own (assuming it still works). All you need to do is get over figuring out how to hold it for which game you're playing and it covers all the blind spots left by modern gamepads. A modern pad *and* N64 controller is a broad combo.


Wii versions *run* very well, they look great, they were a designed for a different controller. Some games the control scheme doesn't really matter too much, like Mario 64, I mean in that game having C buttons on C stick is fine. They control camera. You could get used to the new scheme in other games, like Star Fox, but because they are focused on shooting, you want the more precise stick with smaller dead zone that you already got used to instead of feeling nerfed for conveniences' sake.

"Ocarina" is in the name of the Zelda game and playing the ocarina is a complete garbage mess using a stick. Which can be tolerated but again, it's just tolerating. There is no problem on the OG. Agree to disagree!

Idk if everything mapped to a button would be better on a stick but it "might", I just know it works incredibly well for what the N64 games I've played with it have to offer. Also yeah as for clarity sometimes when I'm typing on a phone the ideas I try to get across don't always come out as clear as they should because I don't proofread them as well.

You see both of those pictures feel like shit, they are both wrong and I'm sure one of those is the intended way but it always felt off even as a kid, the control you get is just not good enough with that controller unless I baby that joystick like an arcade stick (then it controls very well actually for what it is but I shouldn't have to do this to get tight movement controls (I recommend you try this actually to see what you think if you have used an arcade stick before)). As for your GB comment yeah I could get behind that since the Dpad and other buttons are properly placed to be held similarly to one of the Classic Wii Controller plug in designs, it's the joystick that's the issue, games that don't use that part or the Z button would be fine.

Also since you dig those great OG games, including Star Fox, this discussion reminded me I heavily recommend the original Sin and Punishment, it's an excellent game that should be a world renowned classic if you haven't played it, I recommend using the GCN controller but if you can find a way to play with the N64 controller since you prefer it go for it.

 

[Trunx81]

The most important thing about LTTP, at least for me, is also the time it came out:
The last Zelda game was Zelda II, beside that, “open world” RPGs were games like the first 3 Final Fantasy titles on NES.

No other platform could offer what LTTP delivered. PC had Adventures like Quest for Glory, Mega Drive and Amiga had .. Shadow of the Beast?

Myself, I came from the C64 and was blown away: This WAS next gen, truly. Not only by graphics and gameplay, but the sound, OMG. The muffled effects when you enter the castle and the rain is still to be heard in the distance. The changing signs with the "WANTED" posts. The overlaying clouds inside the woods. Everything was just perfect.

 

[MagnesD3]

Also since I'm having trouble getting my post to edit here's how I hold the n64 controller joystick

 

[RoadHazard]

Also since I'm having trouble getting my post to edit here's how I hold the n64 controller joystick

That's illegal.

 

[BouncyFrag]

A few years back I picked up a DS to play Ninty classics. It was a good move. Nice bit of kit.

 

[BlackTron]

Idk if everything mapped to a button would be better on a stick but it "might", I just know it works incredibly well for what the N64 games I've played with it have to offer. Also yeah as for clarity sometimes when I'm typing on a phone the ideas I try to get across don't always come out as clear as they should because I don't proofread them as well.

You see both of those pictures feel like shit, they are both wrong and I'm sure one of those is the intended way but it always felt off even as a kid, the control you get is just not good enough with that controller unless I baby that joystick like an arcade stick (then it controls very well actually for what it is but I shouldn't have to do this to get tight movement controls (I recommend you try this actually to see what you think if you have used an arcade stick before)). As for your GB comment yeah I could get behind that since the Dpad and other buttons are properly placed to be held similarly to one of the Classic Wii Controller plug in designs, it's the joystick that's the issue, games that don't use that part or the Z button would be fine.

Also since you dig those great OG games, including Star Fox, this discussion reminded me I heavily recommend the original Sin and Punishment, it's an excellent game that should be a world renowned classic if you haven't played it, I recommend using the GCN controller but if you can find a way to play with the N64 controller since you prefer it go for it.

With respect. It's kinda hard to take your comments on the accuracy of the stick very seriously when even today you act confused on how to hold the controller. The Z button is just an alternate L button. The same finger uses it, and rests on it when you hold the middle handle. Same way your left hands thumb and forefinger are on a stick/L button on modern controller. What is the difference? I feel like you tried to use the Z button (or god forbid even the stick) while holding the left handle or something. I have friends that did this. I don't really need to try using it like an arcade stick for a more accurate experience because it is already way more accurate than a modern controller just by holding the middle handle. And then I get to use the Z button too, which is pretty important. I would like to fire my gun in 007 or Z-target in Zelda, lol. By the way, the "right or wrong" way to hold the controller is not really opinion. It's in the game manual. There are three official ways to hold it. It depends on the game. For example Tetris used the left handle with the d-pad. 99% of games being in 3D used the middle and right handle. Nintendo thought "why not have a controller that can switch between a 2D and a 3D game" without considering you could do that with only two handles. Pretty stupid design blunder that impacts accessibility. But doesn't take away how good it is if you hold it right which is not too hard unless it's like your first time seeing it in 1996 and the Internet isn't a thing yet.

On the topic, I think GC is the most ergonomic controller ever designed. It's held back by missing a shoulder button and the nubby C stick. I replaced Wavebird C stick with a normal GC stick in 2002, I still use it even today on Switch and Wii U. It is not like I am some guy who hates GC controller. It is fucking awesome. But it completely faceplants for a handful of N64 games compared the original. I'm sorry lol. As someone who loves GC, the N64 is not an ergonomic mess, it's actually really really good as long as you hold it correctly. I have a feeling you could enjoy the "more accurate" nature you get out of using it like an arcade stick if you held it right maybe? GC has less travel distance to swing and bigger dead zone. If you ran the games both styles side by side on the same TV it would be obvious.

Sin & Punishment is good...since it is a shooting game from N64. You are right, I would not want to nerf the control stick to GC style lol.

 

[MagnesD3]

With respect. It's kinda hard to take your comments on the accuracy of the stick very seriously when even today you act confused on how to hold the controller. The Z button is just an alternate L button. The same finger uses it, and rests on it when you hold the middle handle. Same way your left hands thumb and forefinger are on a stick/L button on modern controller. What is the difference? I feel like you tried to use the Z button (or god forbid even the stick) while holding the left handle or something. I have friends that did this. I don't really need to try using it like an arcade stick for a more accurate experience because it is already way more accurate than a modern controller just by holding the middle handle. And then I get to use the Z button too, which is pretty important. I would like to fire my gun in 007 or Z-target in Zelda, lol. By the way, the "right or wrong" way to hold the controller is not really opinion. It's in the game manual. There are three official ways to hold it. It depends on the game. For example Tetris used the left handle with the d-pad. 99% of games being in 3D used the middle and right handle. Nintendo thought "why not have a controller that can switch between a 2D and a 3D game" without considering you could do that with only two handles. Pretty stupid design blunder that impacts accessibility. But doesn't take away how good it is if you hold it right which is not too hard unless it's like your first time seeing it in 1996 and the Internet isn't a thing yet.

On the topic, I think GC is the most ergonomic controller ever designed. It's held back by missing a shoulder button and the nubby C stick. I replaced Wavebird C stick with a normal GC stick in 2002, I still use it even today on Switch and Wii U. It is not like I am some guy who hates GC controller. It is fucking awesome. But it completely faceplants for a handful of N64 games compared the original. I'm sorry lol. As someone who loves GC, the N64 is not an ergonomic mess, it's actually really really good as long as you hold it correctly. I have a feeling you could enjoy the "more accurate" nature you get out of using it like an arcade stick if you held it right maybe? GC has less travel distance to swing and bigger dead zone. If you ran the games both styles side by side on the same TV it would be obvious.

Sin & Punishment is good...since it is a shooting game from N64. You are right, I would not want to nerf the control stick to GC style lol.

Im not confused I've played with it every which way (I can deal with it and did in the past but its not great), it could simply come down to how the controller deals with different hand sizes as well, it truly just doesn't feel good to play with it in either of those holding scenarios (which is why I just invented a way of not having to hold the bad part of the controller), holding it normally feels like I'm fighting against something instead of fighting with it (being uncomfortable for hours at a time isnt great).
Also saying it's more accurate than a modern controller is wild but hey if it works for you then it's whatever.

I'm sure a second main GCN controllers joystick works fine in place of the C Stick (given its firm), the differences are mostly gimmicky between the sticks anyway. I also agree about the missing shoulder button.

 

[BlackTron]

Im not confused I've played with it every which way (I can deal with it and did in the past but its not great), it could simply come down to how the controller deals with different hand sizes as well, it truly just doesn't feel good to play with it in either of those holding scenarios (which is why I just invented a way of not having to hold the bad part of the controller), holding it normally feels like I'm fighting against something instead of fighting with it (being uncomfortable for hours at a time isnt great).
Also saying it's more accurate than a modern controller is wild but hey if it works for you then it's whatever.

I'm sure a second main GCN controllers joystick works fine in place of the C Stick (given its firm), the differences are mostly gimmicky between the sticks anyway. I also agree about the missing shoulder button.

Well you said yourself the N64 stick is very accurate, you just need to hold it weird to feel it. Not sure why you find its accuracy a wild contention. Maybe the controller's shape is just not great for your hands which truly does come down to subjectivity/preference. I find it very comfortable. Meanwhile I think the Dual Shock shape is complete garbage ergonomics, like truly bottom barrel. But everyone seems to like it.

The *only* difference between the sticks on GC is the plastic stick on top. You could take the shell off and swap the two without changing any electronics or anything. I just took the stick from a broken purple controller. Instant buff, stopped me from picking the wrong thing in PSO's quick menu all the time (making it not-so-quick lol)

 

[hyperbertha]

Play Ocarina of Time and then drop Majora's Mask back to back. Preferably the 3DS editions, cause even if the purists are gonna hang me for recommending remasters - the originals are fugly with locked 20fps gameplay. I ain't going back to that.

You can now play ocarina at 60 fps on pc. Majora coming soon.

 

[ABnormal]

Damn, I feel old.

Also, the SNES was not an 8-bit console, OP.

That was a point of clash with Sega fans with Megadrive (Genesis): Megadrive CPU was 16 bit, while SNes one was actually 8 bit. But it had other strong advantages. The whole fight was between graphics, sprites on screen VS speed (Sonic was born right to show that speed of scrolling and such).

Good times.

 

[MagnesD3]

Well you said yourself the N64 stick is very accurate, you just need to hold it weird to feel it. Not sure why you find its accuracy a wild contention. Maybe the controller's shape is just not great for your hands which truly does come down to subjectivity/preference. I find it very comfortable. Meanwhile I think the Dual Shock shape is complete garbage ergonomics, like truly bottom barrel. But everyone seems to like it.

The *only* difference between the sticks on GC is the plastic stick on top. You could take the shell off and swap the two without changing any electronics or anything. I just took the stick from a broken purple controller. Instant buff, stopped me from picking the wrong thing in PSO's quick menu all the time (making it not-so-quick lol)

I said accurate for what it is but the point is I can get it to do what I need it to do pretty comfortably when I cheat with my style. Playstation Controllers are good but Xbox One and up controllers are the best, they feel excellent in the hands, button spacing is perfect and the give from the joysticks are perfect as well, it's a shame they aren't in the gaming business anymore lol.

The C Stick felt stiffer too but I guess that's just the plastics doing, as long as the right stick was stable for accurate inputs then I'd say it would work just fine.

 

[BlackTron]

I said accurate for what it is but the point is I can get it to do what I need it to do pretty comfortably when I cheat with my style. Playstation Controllers are good but Xbox One and up controllers are the best, they feel excellent in the hands, button spacing is perfect and the give from the joysticks are perfect as well, it's a shame they aren't in the gaming business anymore lol.

The C Stick felt stiffer too but I guess that's just the plastics doing, as long as the right stick was stable for accurate inputs then I'd say it would work just fine.

I can't believe you can make the N64 controller "comfortable" by contorting yourself into using it like an arcade stick. Seriously, no wonder you hate it. Yeah I love Xbox as well, except 360 was better than One and none of them have gyro...if only they had motion control. Oh well. So close to being a perfect PC controller especially with all its native support (xinput).

C stick felt stiffer because we had less surface contact area on top to apply leverage with our thumbs.

 

[Doczu]

I’d love to play it, but isn’t the size of the 3DS disappointing to play those games?

Emulate them. I won't judge. And the games look even better upscaled. The 3DS is just like the PSP where upscaling brings a new level of detail you could have missed on the low res display.
But i still prefer to play them on real hardware.

 

[MagnesD3]

I can't believe you can make the N64 controller "comfortable" by contorting yourself into using it like an arcade stick. Seriously, no wonder you hate it. Yeah I love Xbox as well, except 360 was better than One and none of them have gyro...if only they had motion control. Oh well. So close to being a perfect PC controller especially with all its native support (xinput).

C stick felt stiffer because we had less surface contact area on top to apply leverage with our thumbs.

I used to love 360 as well but now they feel a little cheap if that makes sense. I like the weight of the Xbox One controller and prefer the material on the sticks, I don't enjoy the plastic on the 360 Joysticks anymore if I have the choice, I'm still not a big believer in Gyro controls but maybe I'll get there once I play Splatton 2 or something well see

 

[Captain Toad]

That was a point of clash with Sega fans with Megadrive (Genesis): Megadrive CPU was 16 bit, while SNes one was actually 8 bit. But it had other strong advantages. The whole fight was between graphics, sprites on screen VS speed (Sonic was born right to show that speed of scrolling and such).

Good times.

You trying to tell me the Super NES is an 8-bit console?

 

[BlackTron]

I used to love 360 as well but now they feel a little cheap if that makes sense. I like the weight of the Xbox One controller and prefer the material on the sticks, I don't enjoy the plastic on the 360 Joysticks anymore if I have the choice, I'm still not a big believer in Gyro controls but maybe I'll get there once I play Splatton 2 or something well see

At the end of the day it's all preference. I found build quality and feel better on 360, I thought things got cheaper after that. Don't get me wrong, they're all good. Otherwise I wouldn't have 4 Series controllers.

To me gyro is mostly useful for making the final adjustment to aiming after using the stick. So for example if I was gonna emulate TOTK, Xbox would be disqualified. Would need to use the Switch Pro or something. When I played BOTW on Wi U, Pro had superior ergonomics but only Gamepad had aiming. I consequently switched between the two, knowing full well the setup was broken and needed a different controller lol

 

[93xfan]

That was a point of clash with Sega fans with Megadrive (Genesis): Megadrive CPU was 16 bit, while SNes one was actually 8 bit. But it had other strong advantages. The whole fight was between graphics, sprites on screen VS speed (Sonic was born right to show that speed of scrolling and such).

Good times.

I remember the old commercial of comparing Sonic to Mario Kart (probably 50cc).

Was annoyed back then that they didn’t show F-Zero instead.

 

[Guwop]

I remember playing Zelda A Link to the past when I was a young teen. Me and my buddy would stay up late at night on the phone playing the game at the same time helping each other how to progress. Those were the days.

 

[ABnormal]

You trying to tell me the Super NES is an 8-bit console?

The CPU was. And yet, CPU speed apart (which led to the signature slowdowns on certain SNES games), SNES was actually more performant in general, due to other chips (it even had a chip for the famous "mode 7", which was more advanced even compared to the imitation created for the Mega CD for Megadrive). It was overall a better machine, but clearly the 16 bit Motorola 68000 Megadrive CPU was significantly faster and led to a specific marketing direction based on speed (the creation of Sonic was part of it).
Ah, I really enjoyed that console war. And having had both consoles it was a blast...

 

[MacReady13]

When you accept removing the bloat, you get games like these. Welcome to the 16 bits era, you have a ton of games to discover. Enjoy!

There was seriously no better era for gaming purists. Give me Mario World, Super Metroid, Mario Kart etc over ANY game today. Simply an unmatched set of classics released on 1 console.

 

[FunkMiller]

Link To The Past was my final Zelda game, until Breath Of The Wild came out. I went Playstation for years. Once I’m done with Tears Of The Kingdom, I’m going to go through the others, starting with Ocarina.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

its worse than the Wii U gamepad or a Dreamcast controller which isn't great.

Those are both very good controllers, as is the N64’s. So my friend, I’m afraid the problem lies elsewhere…

The precision of the N64’s stick was galaxies ahead of the shit we get now, which is likely to start drifting within a year. I gave up completing Jet Force Gemini in Rare Replay because there’s a challenge that requires absolute precision, and I simply can’t achieve that with the Xbox controller.
Too bad that wonderful stick literally destroyed itself. My original N64 controller is unusable due to stick deterioration.

 

[Madserb2023]

You are lucky being able to play this for the first time. If only I could experience every Zelda game again like the first time.

 

[MagnesD3]

Those are both very good controllers, as is the N64’s. So my friend, I’m afraid the problem lies elsewhere…

The precision of the N64’s stick was galaxies ahead of the shit we get now, which is likely to start drifting within a year. I gave up completing Jet Force Gemini in Rare Replay because there’s a challenge that requires absolute precision, and I simply can’t achieve that with the Xbox controller.
Too bad that wonderful stick literally destroyed itself. My original N64 controller is unusable due to stick deterioration.

I mean they work, they are usable so if that counts as good then there ya go.

I definitely agree that N64 joysticks deteriorate to dogshit unfortunately

 

[tomato shrub]

I’d love to play it, but isn’t the size of the 3DS disappointing to play those games?

Emulate them. I won't judge. And the games look even better upscaled. The 3DS is just like the PSP where upscaling brings a new level of detail you could have missed on the low res display.
But i still prefer to play them on real hardware.

The XL screens are ok and the touchscreen menus in OoT are a huge plus. Also, some people don't care about that, but the 3D effect in Zelda is shockingly good.

 

[Chastten]

As someone who never owned a SNES growing up, topics like this really make me wanna get my SNES mini out of storage and play some of those classics till the end credits for the first time.

While I did play a bit of this game, as well as Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, Super Mario RPG, Final Fantasy VI and so many other via emulators, I never finished any of them.