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Xbox Series X Won't Be Competitive With NVIDIA's DLSS Unless There's a MIRACLE ~ Digital Foundry

I like the part where the cards cost as much as an entire console or if you're going higher end cards as much as a cheap car. Of course PC tech will outpace consoles. Why is this even a question? When you dedicate the funds to one component and spend magnitudes more there's going to be marked differences.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. They don’t care about converting pc gamers to console, they want pc gamers buying their games on pc. Console gamers aren’t switching to pc en masse.


Accurate, with the addition they want their services pushed to PC gamers as well e.g. GP.
 

Bryank75

Banned
I expect the to ramp up PC gaming. Why wouldn't they? Not day and date, but I could easily see them coming 6-12 months. They got a taste of that Steam money with HZD.
They made nothing from HZD, it did really badly. Well below 500K...
It's really not worth it.
It's probably 10 million income after all said and done.

PlayStation makes 21 Billion in a year, they wipe their ass with 10M.
 

reinking

Gold Member
You say that like it’s a bad thing. They don’t care about converting pc gamers to console, they want pc gamers buying their games on pc. Console gamers aren’t switching to pc en masse.
Where did I say it is a bad thing? I said they are making it a harder choice where in the past it was an easy one.

Let's be honest though. All of this inclusion isn't even about outright number of games sold. Microsoft is pushing for GAAS in the future. They are going to want as many end users as they can get because those MTX sales is a path to easier profits. I am not going to lie, it does make me a bit nervous but so far they have been pretty fair with the GAAS titles.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
Where did I say it is a bad thing? I said they are making it a harder choice where in the past it was an easy one.

Let's be honest though. All of this inclusion isn't even about outright number of games sold. Microsoft is pushing for GAAS in the future. They are going to want as many end users as they can get because those MTX sales is a path to easier profits. I am not going to lie, it does make me a bit nervous but so far they have been pretty fair with the GAAS titles.
It’s making the choice easier, which is a good thing. Now you don’t have to debate buying a whole new console or not if you’re a pc gamer. That’s a win for pc gamers, and that’s exactly what MS are going for. Make getting in to their ecosystem easier and better value.
 
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VFXVeteran

Banned
I expect the to ramp up PC gaming. Why wouldn't they? Not day and date, but I could easily see them coming 6-12 months. They got a taste of that Steam money with HZD.

TLOU 1 is first. I think BB is coming too. I don't have confirmation on that but people have been talking. I think it will be all the PS4 exclusives that matter. PS5 games will obviously come afterwards.

The wait time has nothing to do with holding out on the PC for a few months of sales for the PS. It has more to do with the 1st party companies not having their graphics engines designed for multiplatform. That's being worked on now.
 
They made nothing from HZD, it did really badly. Well below 500K...
It's really not worth it.
It's probably 10 million income after all said and done.

PlayStation makes 21 Billion in a year, they wipe their ass with 10M.
Maybe if they did a proper port, more people would buy it. Little money is better than no money.
 
I was all in for next gen consoles but wasn't really feeling the excitment I usually feel with the start of new console generations. But I've got to confess, the 3080 reveal and price gave me that feeling. Overwhelmingly so. Totally going to upgrade my 1060 and get one of these cards. XSX and PS5 already seem dated.
 

reinking

Gold Member
It’s making the choice easier, which is a good thing. Now you don’t have to debate buying a whole new console or not if you’re a pc gamer. That’s a win for pc gamers, and that’s exactly what MS are going for. Make getting in to their ecosystem easier and better value.
Yes. Again, I did not say it was a bad thing.
 

Neo_game

Member
Another clickbait by DF. It will be great for consoles if they give up on native 4K resolution.

I don't understand this . $499 for one video card , vs $499 for the whole Xbox Series X is not really a fair match up. And also , MS is very much happy if you want to game on PC or Console. They still get your money .

In a way it is good as people get to choose their platform but IMO they are not even trying as far as Xbox is concerned.
 

nkarafo

Member
So a card that is $500 will outperform consoles that are $500? what a shock lol, how much more are you going to have to spend to get the memory, SSD, a CPU etc to take full advantage of that $500 card?
A 300$ 3060 will also be more powerful probably.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
PlayStation makes 21 Billion in a year, they wipe their ass with 10M.
the execs will pocket it and buy themselves a yacht.

look at what WB execs did to justice league. they knew it wasnt gonna be ready for holiday 2017 but they were all leaving after the year and wanted their year end bonuses before they jumped ship. so they launched it knowing it would make hundreds of millions even if it would get bad reviews and poison the franchise. who cares about that when you are jumping ship anywya.
 

MarkMe2525

Member
I don't think MS is even attempting to be competitive with Nvidias newest offerings. Did MS say they were competing with nvidia's latest lineup? Is NVIDIA making a game console? What is the point of this conversation?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
So a card that is $500 will outperform consoles that are $500? what a shock lol, how much more are you going to have to spend to get the memory, SSD, a CPU etc to take full advantage of that $500 card?
the cpu thats in the ps5 and xsx sis $350 on newegg right now. but they will need a better cpu to render more pixels at a higher framerate, and the next jump is $450.

with PCIE 4.0 ssds and motherboards costing almost $200 each, you are looking at a cool $1,700-2,000 to actually utilize the rt I/o and gpu raw horsepower. CPU heatsink, a big enough case, system ram and a large PSU should be $400 at the minimum.
 
the cpu thats in the ps5 and xsx sis $350 on newegg right now. but they will need a better cpu to render more pixels at a higher framerate, and the next jump is $450.

with PCIE 4.0 ssds and motherboards costing almost $200 each, you are looking at a cool $1,700-2,000 to actually utilize the rt I/o and gpu raw horsepower. CPU heatsink, a big enough case, system ram and a large PSU should be $400 at the minimum.
What cpu is that again?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes

MarkMe2525

Member
Another clickbait by DF. It will be great for consoles if they give up on native 4K resolution.



In a way it is good as people get to choose their platform but IMO they are not even trying as far as Xbox is concerned.
I would agree with you if digital foundry actually said these things in the context that the op is presenting. They were just commenting that Microsoft was going to have some sort of upscaling solution of their own that they are working on. They blah blah blah for a second and then Richard said but it's not going to be as powerful as Nvidia latest offerings unless there were some sort of engineering miracle. He wasn't pitting the two against each other. Just stating the obvious. Just a bullshit tweet and a bullshit thread.
 
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Kamill

Neo Member
oh c'mon pc have much more productive hardware than this gen consoles. But... best technologically game is TLOU2. RTX works in only few games (not impressive btw).Nvidia can put milionsbilions flops/tehnologies but what the point if developers don't use it. DIFFERENT gen-SAME story
 
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I would agree with you if digital foundry actually said these things in the context that the op is presenting. They were just commenting that Microsoft was going to have some sort of upscaling solution of their own that they are working on. They blah blah blah for a second and then Richard said but it's not going to be as powerful as Nvidia latest offerings unless there were some sort of engineering miracle. He wasn't pitting the two against each other. Just stating the obvious. Just a bullshit tweet and a bullshit thread.

Bingo. I'm starting to wonder why posters are attacking the XBOX so much. Trying to spin things like it's a job.
 

Gamerguy84

Member
I mean that is almost exactly what VFXVeteran VFXVeteran said..... TLOU1.

I added in BB for something nice if they are being nice and I'm being optimistic there.

However I fully expect Sony to think twice about everything after this Nvidia presentation.

Sonys bread and butter is their exclusive content. Theyre not handing that over.

Old content, sure why not. My personal guess is nothing within 3 years minimum, more like 4 though.
 

Bryank75

Banned
Sonys bread and butter is their exclusive content. Theyre not handing that over.

Old content, sure why not. My personal guess is nothing within 3 years minimum, more like 4 though.
I'm opposed to all of it now. Considering the shape of things, it puts extra importance on exclusives.
 
zen 2 3800.


The PS5 CPU maxes out at 3.5 GHZ and is quite a bit slower than the $250 3700X.
 

Topfuel

Member
Digital Foundry's latest video recapped the NVIDIA 30XX conference.

In regards to the $499 3070 Digital Foundry claims the card will offer Superior GPU Performance compared to the Xbox Series X and that is before you even factor in DLSS.

They say Microsoft is working on image upscaling tech similar to DLSS, but that Xbox Series X doesn't have dedicated hardware and it won't be competitive with what NVIDIA has short of a Miracle


They also point out that we don't know if Sony is working on similar tech yet.

Really disappointing if AMD doesn't have something that comes close to DLSS. I get that they're years behind, but it's such a huge leap that if this is true then it won't be long before we're getting another refresh.

Full Video


Excerpts






Please put in PS5. Who is this Red Dragon with 6000 followers from twitter you always quote in your XSX specific posts?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Wait, you think consoles have a 3800X?! Lmfaaaaao no way
8 cores 16 threads. thats the key. you basically have to buy that one even if the one in consoles arent reaching 4.5 ghz.

if you buy the 6 core 12 thread one, it wont last past the cross gen period.

The PS5 CPU maxes out at 3.5 GHZ and is quite a bit slower than the $250 3700X.
 
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8 cores 16 threads. thats the key. you basically have to buy that one even if the one in consoles arent reaching 4.5 ghz.

if you buy the 6 core 12 thread one, it wont last past the cross gen period.
So every 8 core is equivalent? Consoles aren't even 3700x, more or less 3800x.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
The PS5 CPU maxes out at 3.5 GHZ and is quite a bit slower than the $250 3700X.
ah i see the 3700x is also 8 cores. yes, that will do. but who knows what the cpu requirements would be for running 30 fps next gen console games at 60 fps and same settings?


its on sale right now for $289 and it usually retails for $329. and again, even if its around 30% faster, we do not know if that will be enough to double the framerate to 60 fps at same res and same console settings. I suspect the devs will max out the console CPUs and you will need far more than a 30% faster CPU like the 3700x to double the framerate, let alone push past 60 fps into the 120 fps territory or just ultra settings which im guessing is the entire point of buying a $700 gpu. you will not be running these games at console settings and console framerate.

if i had to recommend anyone buying a pc to future proof themselves for next gen, especially to complement a 3080, i would not recommend an 8 core 16 thread cpu. if you are buying a top of the line card, you dont want to cheap out on anything crucial like the cpu.
 
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PM me for pics.
Soooo.... You gonna reply to your pm's? Or what?

FVAEvDU.png
 
Should also add PS5 to it too.

Well we know why they didn't.

Honestly this is just getting tiring at this point. Between here, other forums, and certain Youtube channels (almost at a point where I feel I should just name names and show why); there's a strong sect of people who are hellbent on taking any perceived thing that can be levied as an attack against Series X and running with it, even to the point of ignoring the implications of a lot of that also affecting PS5 (but conveniently leaving PS5 out of the conversation when it's a negative they can use against Series X and just pretend it doesn't also affect PS5 in some capacity).

Like, I just saw this video and it's a good video, but look at the dolt in the Twitter who used that one segment in a 42-minute video as their takeaway message. Look at the way they framed it. This is the average console gaming discussion these days, it's deteriorated into the partisan BS that overt clickbait political channels resort to on the regular. And I wanted to keep political influences out of gaming, too bad supposed "gamers" now take those same tactics and apply them to discussing next-gen consoles.

It's like the number of places and people you can have genuine, in-depth, fair/balanced/honest discussion on next-gen tech with has dwindled to an absolute minimum. I can probably count the places and folks on two hands, maybe three at most, and that's pushing it. I will never understand this console warrior mentality that some people seem to have. Maybe that's because I first started gaming in arcades so I didn't form a strong console brand affinity right off the bat. I've had and/or played systems from SEGA, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, NEC, Vetrex (it was my older sister's) and more. Have played games across an even greater range of systems through sources like emulation (SNK, Atari, etc.).

For me I enjoy a multitude of platforms past and present for a variety of reasons. That's what a real gamer should be IMHO. I don't feel a need to shit on one system just to make another one look good, it'd go against my actual virtues towards the medium. But we've got too many fakes in the hobby today who simply hate on a system to hate on it, offer no constructive critiques, and simply repeat hot takes and talking points ad nauseum.

I honestly don't think gaming discourse online has ever been this outright toxic, and it's probably only going to get worst as time goes on before it gets better.
 
ah i see the 3700x is also 8 cores. yes, that will do. but who knows what the cpu requirements would be for running 30 fps next gen console games at 60 fps and same settings?


its on sale right now for $289 and it usually retails for $329. and again, even if its around 30% faster, we do not know if that will be enough to double the framerate to 60 fps at same res and same console settings. I suspect the devs will max out the console CPUs and you will need far more than a 30% faster CPU like the 3700x to double the framerate, let alone push past 60 fps into the 120 fps territory or just ultra settings which im guessing is the entire point of buying a $700 gpu. you will not be running these games at console settings and console framerate.

if i had to recommend anyone buying a pc to future proof themselves for next gen, especially to complement a 3080, i would not recommend an 8 core 16 thread cpu. if you are buying a top of the line card, you dont want to cheap out on anything crucial like the cpu.

I guarantee you that pretty much all games will be GPU limited. It's almost impossible to limit a game to 30 fps via the CPU, unless you're using netbook CPUs like those in the PS4/Xbone. You have a point if you're talking about 120 and more fps, but in that case you want the CPU to be as fast as possible anyway.
 

MrFunSocks

Banned
oh c'mon pc have much more productive hardware than this gen consoles. But... best technologically game is TLOU2.
A game that doesn't have dynamic lighting/global illumination etc and is basically just lauded for its cutscene-esque animations is the best game technology wise? Not a chance.

Tech wise TLOU2 isn't amazing. There are plenty of other games, both on PS4, XB1, and PC that are better techology wise. Flight Simulator 2020 blows it out of the water from a tech standpoint.
 

magnumpy

Member
this is the worst thing that's ever happened :(

but I'm stubborn and refuse to adapt to changing times, that's why I still play on an Atari 7800 after all these years :eek:
 
Huge concern with PS5 having none of these features, being the least powerful of the three and costing just as much as a more powerful Series X and a 3070.
That probably explains why they are buying up 3rd party exclusives so comparisons aren't shown.
They might need to re-release the Walkman and make up the loss in $$$$ cos Sony ent. could be in a lot of trouble.
 

tryDEATH

Member
Wow another thread of Xbox bad, Sony not as bad, color me surprised.

This is really on another level when it comes to the amount of dishonest framing and s*ting on Xbox. It wasn't even this bad at the launch of current generation when people actually had legitimate reasons to trash the Xbox One for its lackluster system. Yet the Series X is getting kicked in the mouth for anything and everything no matter if its directly relevant or not.

People really are clamoring to push as much toxic opinions and narratives into the mind share of people when it comes to the Series X and everyone is just riding with it like it should be accepted and its getting out of control.
 

Reallink

Member
This is just common sense. If either MS or Sony had AI upscaling anywhere close to DLSS 2.0, it would be their #1 bullet point and the lead feature of their console. It's effectively a 50-100%+ boost to performance. You don't mention something like that in passing as a throw away feature, or fail to mention it at all in Sony's case.
 
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