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Xbox Series X Won't Be Competitive With NVIDIA's DLSS Unless There's a MIRACLE ~ Digital Foundry

reinking

reinking

Gold Member
Ktsdaddy said:
People are posting like you only need a $499.99 card to play these games and are forgetting HD, RAM, CPU etc....
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I am a console gamer first but I also know that most console gamers will need to upgrade their TV to take full advantage of the new consoles. Plus, that whole pesky online tax. I wouldn't put dollar vs dollar on the argument this generation. Many people will see a significant gain by just upgrading their console just like many will see a significant gain by just upgrading their GPU.
 
Ascend

Ascend

Member
We don't know what DirectML will do, but, the XSX supports it. nVidia implements their proprietary patented stuff (like always), but it doesn't mean there aren't other alternatives. Think HairWorks vs TressFX, PhysX vs Havok and so on. Obviously the XSX is at most equivalent to an RTX 3070, and we know little of the XSX capabilities, but it's obviously not out of this world to expect a console to be more limited than the highest end PC hardware available.

I'm starting to think DF loves gaming wars more than gaming tech.
 
G

Godfavor

Member
Hmm.. MS already confirmed Direct ML as a method of image upscaling like DLSS. They have also added custom hardware in XSX (that's not part of rdna 2) CU's with to handle it more effectively with 4/8 bit integer math pack. It is quite weird as DF already know that MS will use ML in XSX.
 
JTCx

JTCx

Member
TheGreatWhiteShark said:
well I have spoken too, way before you spoke. maybe you missed it?


www.neogaf.com

Xbox Series X Won't Be Competitive With NVIDIA's DLSS Unless There's a MIRACLE ~ Digital Foundry

3090 but close enough. 3090 will only be around 15-20% faster than a 3080. They both use the same GPU (GA-102), the 3090 has 20% more CUDA cores, but the ram is identical (minus the amount which *rarely* ever affects framerate when you are talking 10+GB), and the 3090 runs at a slightly lower...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com

tenor.gif
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Your analogy is trash and dumb to smoke. :messenger_weary::messenger_ok:
 
danielJackson

danielJackson

Banned
reinking said:
I am a console gamer first but I also know that most console gamers will need to upgrade their TV to take full advantage of the new consoles. Plus, that whole pesky online tax. I wouldn't put dollar vs dollar on the argument this generation. Many people will see a significant gain by just upgrading their console just like many will see a significant gain by just upgrading their GPU.
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That is still kind of apples to oranges.

Person 1: console only gamer
Options: buy next gen console, or spend 1500-2500€ to new pc setup (everything from zero + pc that is really what PCs are for, high end gaming)

Person 2: PC only gamer
Options: upgrade GPU only for 500-1500€, upgrade GPU + other parts if older PC AND/OR buy next gen console

Person 3: PC + Console gamer
Options: buy next gen console AND upgrade GPU only OR upgrade GPU + other parts

So only people in category 3 overlap both sides and category 1+2 are not over lapping so they dont benefit from cheap console AND cheap gpu in the same time.

Like what is the point of comparing 500€ GPU into 500€ console, when audience for either of those would not get the another if they continue on the platform they like (console OR pc)?

And there is no need to buy new TV for next gen consoles, Im gonna use my 1080p TV for PS5 and it will be just fine, it's not day vs night situation anyway so not fair to say that "yeah well console gamers must buy expensive TV"

I guess the worst case scenario for both is expensive, if high end is the goal.

High end pc setup (all components, screen, computer desk, chair, audio, software) = +4000€ easily

High end console setup (console + expensive tv + chair/sofa + audio setup) = +2000€ easily
 
FunkMiller

FunkMiller

Gold Member
It baffles me how so many people think there’s that much of a crossover between console and PC gaming.

A console is designed to make playing games as easy and accessible as possible. It’s something you do on your couch, with no technical issues, set up problems, multiple bits of hardware and software to think about. And many people work at PCs every day. You think they want to play games on them as well?

Nvidia’s new cards are amazing... and won’t do diddly squat to persuade the console gaming public to change over.
 
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S

scalman

Member
depends who need what . games on consoles wil lallways be first thing , no matter how poerfull pc or its GPU will be its not gonna be made on that hardware just adopted to pc nothing more. games thats what sells all. not hardware.
 
SF Kosmo

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
BlueXImpulse said:
When I said power, I meant performance. PS5 may or may not be as performant as a 2080, but it's hanging around there. The 3080 in DF benchmarks is 80 percent more performant than a 2080. So 2x a PS5 in performance sounds accurate to me. Excluding ray tracing.
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Yeah it's probably about that. Remember that 80% is not just a test of GPU performance but the whole system so round up accordingly.
 
TheGreatWhiteShark

TheGreatWhiteShark

Member
JTCx said:
what happen? your car analogy didnt work out? you knew that shit was stupid as fuck

lmfao
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Analogy was perfect except I was being too polite
should be vw polo with ssd (CU count and bandwidth of 5700 plain) VS vw golf gti VS cayman :messenger_winking:

xStoyax said:
Jay seems to think NVIDIA has buried AMD before their reveal. He's talking about the PC GPU's but if AMD doesn't have an answer to DLSS I just can't see getting that excited for whatever they show.

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:unsure: is not equal to "white flag" though. lets wait and see
 
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M

molly14

Member
FranXico said:
The reality is that both the PS5 and Xbox Series X are very low end compared to RTX 3080 and 3090.

And yet some people are arrogantly pretending that the Series X comes close to them somehow. As if 2TF is a huge difference, but 18TF and 24TF is not.
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The reality is who gives a fuck outside of PC fanboys that the new consoles are not as powerful as graphics cards costing more than the entire price of the console.The PS4 sold over a hundred million units despite far more powerful PC hardware available throughout the generation..So if people were that bothered about the power difference they would have not gone for a PS4.

Its about the quality of the games not the amount of teraflops the machine is throwing about.But carry on downplaying the consoles.Nobody else cares for the umpteen time!

Lots of stunning games graphically will be available for the new consoles,unless you think you need between 20tf and 30 tf to have stunning looking games.

So many dumb posts in this thread,you would think every single person who games on pc is buying the new cards
 
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nemiroff

nemiroff

Gold Member
I'm so happy to see a thread with so much positivity and good information. It's like a band of brothers, it's beautiful.



Edit: I forgot that I have an ignore list with lots of darkness in it. That's probably why, damn.

Yep, I just checked by turning it off and this shit suddenly appeared (Nvidia must've done something truly awful to this person):
|
V
 
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Papacheeks

Papacheeks

Banned
xStoyax said:
Jay seems to think NVIDIA has buried AMD before their reveal. He's talking about the PC GPU's but if AMD doesn't have an answer to DLSS I just can't see getting that excited for whatever they show.

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Wow, DLSS is not the be all jesus christ.

Stop drinking the NVIDIA Kool-aid.

It's cool tech, but it's tech created because NVIDIA is trying to brand that a re-constructed image 100% of the time is better than native. And thats far from the truth.

Also was created because like any tech company that knows about ray tracing which has been around for years in CGI, that it requires a lot of horse currently to render it. Engines now are being re-written with Ray tracing in mind, so it wont need to be brute forced as much in terms of what it takes for cores/shaders to give you that effect and not affect frame rate.

DLSS was literally their answer to low FPS on the RTX 20'S CARDS when it ran on games like metro, BF V.

Telling you DLSS unless adopted in every engine or made universal through their drivers and is something you can force in like control panel will have to be written in the actual game engines.

Once chiplet design starts in gpu's DLSS wont matter.
 
xStoyax

xStoyax

Banned
Papacheeks said:
Wow, DLSS is not the be all jesus christ.

Stop drinking the NVIDIA Kool-aid.

It's cool tech, but it's tech created because NVIDIA is trying to brand that a re-constructed image 100% of the time is better than native. And thats far from the truth.
Click to expand...

Not far from the truth when there's plenty of examples of it being better than native. Native resolution is the most useless power hog in gaming. Downplaying the future of DLSS & similar tech isn't the hill you wanna be on
 
Papacheeks

Papacheeks

Banned
xStoyax said:
Not far from the truth when there's plenty of examples of it being better than native. Native resolution is the most useless power hog in gaming. Downplaying the future of DLSS & similar tech isn't the hill you wanna be on
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Plenty? You mean certain engines with assets that originally were non 4k assets? Like DECIMA engine in death stranding? Go compare death stranding in 4k with or without DLSS to the new Crysis remastered using 8k textures.
It's literally a game by game basis. Does not improve a lot in games like Control image wise. And really the biggest case for it currently that people keep bringing up is Death Stranding. And that literally runs on a engine that was built for console then modified over time to scale to PC.

Engines coming out in 2021 such as UE5, possibly Forstbytle depending on if they made changes to how their renderer works are going to show insane native 4k rendered images. That wont have rough edges like a lot of engines currently are showing.
Which is why they make a case for DLSS. All engines that are making games for current gen maybe barring cyberpunk depends on what they have for assets, are old engines that were re-worked from previous gen.

So in terms of asset creation, pixel density/complexity they don't look super great when scaled to 4k. yes the image looks sharper, and sometimes they spend extra time to make new assets for PC version where it will scale and show off those remade textures, character models.
But it's not everyone.

In a year your post won't age well.

If DLSS was some super saving grace, then where are all the developers who make engines not talking about it to great lengths?

And that would be because the changes happening in engine development right now in preparation to next gen.
 
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