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[Kresnik258]

Vita is dead long term, no point even trying to cling on. Even Sony themselves have turned their backs on the handheld market.

Rather than shoe-horning a franchise that was originally designed for handhelds into a home console game, why not just ride out the handheld Sony market while it's still viable (for which it at least has a couple of years left) and then design a different games for home consoles that would appeal to those gamers more once the handheld market is gone?

They clearly know what they're doing in this regard with Ni-Oh. Instead they've appealed to basically no market with Toukiden 2.

 

[Shizuka]

A sprite quasi-visual novel RPG hybrid developed by a tiny smartphone outfit is really a bigger bomba than things like The Awakened Fate: Ultimatum?

In terms of absolute sales, yes. I'm not taking into account budget, marketing, genre potential and everything else.

 

[noobie]

Do we have previous entries first number to this week new entries?

 

[Fisico]

The west, Mars and Pluton will save Toukiden.

Digital ratio is pretty high on PS4.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

This is why console Monster Hunter is dumb.

Toukiden isn't Monster Hunter, although if Monster Hunter ends up being on console anytime soon (I'm willing to bet that it will in some capacity), it'll be similar to the situation you see with DQXI, in that the console SKU is clearly for the west. After all, Monster Hunter started out as a console game and even though it exploded when it reached handhelds, a new console game wouldn't really be 'shoe-horning' the formula onto a higher spec machine. Certainly didn't feel like shoe-horning on PS2 or Wii U for me at least.

Whether or not it's necessary is another argument entirely, however.

 

[Bruno MB]

[PSV] Toukiden # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2013.06.27} (¥6.090) - 122.794 / NEW 
[PSP] Toukiden <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2013.06.27} (¥5.040) - 66.016 / NEW 

[B][ALL] Toukiden # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2013.06.27} - 188.810 / NEW [/B]

[PSV] Toukiden: Kiwami # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2014.08.28} (¥6.264) - 79.384 / NEW 
[PSP] Toukiden: Kiwami # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2014.08.28} (¥5.184) - 11.026 / NEW 
[PS4] Toukiden: Kiwami <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2015.04.23} (¥7.344) - 6.103 / NEW 

[B][ALL] Toukiden: Kiwami # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2014.08.28} - 96.513 / NEW[/B]

[PSV] Toukiden 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2016.07.28} (¥6.800) - 59.032 / NEW
[PS4] Toukiden 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2016.07.28} (¥7.800) - 46.334 / NEW
[PS3] Toukiden 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2016.07.28} (¥7.800) - 6.222 / NEW 

[B][ALL] Toukiden 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2016.07.28} - 111.588 / NEW[/B]

[3DS] PazuDora Z: Puzzle & Dragons Z <RPG> (GungHo Online Entertainment) {2013.12.12} (¥4.400) - 543.630 / NEW 
[3DS] Puzzle & Dragons: Super Mario Bros. Edition <RPG> (GungHo Online Entertainment) {2015.04.29} (¥4.320) - 179.926 / NEW 
[3DS] Puzzle & Dragons X: God Chapter / Dragon Chapter <RPG> (GungHo Online Entertainment) {2016.07.28} (¥4.800) - 87.510 / NEW

 

[Nirolak]

The west, Mars and Pluton will save Toukiden.

Among games contemplating this, Toukiden definitely strikes me as one in the loser pile.

 

[Eolz]

Toukiden isn't Monster Hunter, although if Monster Hunter ends up being on console anytime soon (I'm willing to bet that it will in some capacity), it'll be similar to the situation you see with DQXI, in that the console SKU is clearly for the west. After all, Monster Hunter started out as a console game and even though it exploded when it reached handhelds, a new console game wouldn't really be 'shoe-horning' the formula onto a higher spec machine. Certainly didn't feel like shoe-horning on PS2 or Wii U for me at least.

Whether or not it's necessary is another argument entirely, however.

We've seen that MonHun also sells better on handheld in the west.
But let's not transform that into the usual MonHun thread...

 

[MacTag]

Vita is dead long term, no point even trying to cling on. Even Sony themselves have turned their backs on the handheld market.

Perhaps then Koei should've refocused their Toukiden efforts on the handheld marketplace with a future? You know, the one with Monster Hunter?

 

[Vena]

Toot toot, Toukiden and P&D.

From last week's thread:

The blog is hinting that something might happen, regarding PS4 very soon (Aug-Sep)

Spoiler

Price drop or new model

Seems like Neo and price drop.

 

[Kyoufu]

The west, Mars and Pluton will save Toukiden.

Toukiden is headed to Krypton.

 

[Kysen]

Perhaps then Koei should've refocused their Toukiden efforts on the handheld marketplace with a future? You know, the one with Monster Hunter?

You know full well the 3DS hardware couldn't handle the game. Look at all the other Omega force titles on 3DS, they look and run poorly.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

We've seen that MonHun also sells better on handheld in the west.
But let's not transform that into the usual MonHun thread...

Yeah, like I say, I don't feel it's even necessary. The series has actually seen positive growth in the west recently, despite being bound to the 3DS. I doubt a console game would do much to bolster that.

 

[MacTag]

You know full well the 3DS hardware couldn't handle the game. Look at all the other Omega force titles on 3DS, they look and run poorly.

If Toukiden 2 had been a 3DS game I don't think it'd have been the same Toukiden 2 we got. 3DS certainly could've handled the first game and the genre in general.

 

[Sectorseven]

6,000 copies of Toukiden 2 on PS3, how much longer is that system going to be supported in Japan?

 

[Escalario]

If Toukiden 2 had been a 3DS game I don't think it'd have been the same Toukiden 2 we got. 3DS certainly could've handled the first game and the genre in general.

Yes, but Capcom and Atlus are the only 3rd parties that aren't lazy when it comes to 3DS.

 

[leatherhat]

Perhaps then Koei should've refocused their Toukiden efforts on the handheld marketplace with a future? You know, the one with Monster Hunter?

Dedicated handhelds don't have a future anywhere. Handheld based franchises that can't be transitioned to phones are in between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Powwa]

If Toukiden 2 had been a 3DS game I don't think it'd have been the same Toukiden 2 we got. 3DS certainly could've handled the first game and the genre in general.

I don't think Toukiden would have done the same numbers on 3DS though. The reason it sold that much was because there was an audience hungry for a MH like game.

 

[MacTag]

Yes, but Capcom and Atlus are the only 3rd parties that aren't lazy when it comes to 3DS.

Level 5 also puts in work. As do some smaller developers like M2 or Silicon Studio.

 

[Escalario]

Level 5 also puts in work. As do some smaller developers like M2 or Silicon Studio.

True that.

 

[Vena]

I don't think Toukiden would have done the same numbers on 3DS though. The reason it sold that much was because there was an audience hungry for a MH like game.

I don't think Mac is talking about making it without a Vita/PSP version all the same. That said I don't think 3DS was necessary here/there or for Toukiden 2. If they had remained focused on the Vita with Toukiden 2, I think the series would have done fine and then later, say T3 or T2K, they could have started moving to cross-platform with the NX or some such.

 

[MacTag]

Dedicated handhelds don't have a future anywhere. Handheld based franchises that can't be transitioned to phones are in between a rock and a hard place.

They have another gen at least in Japan, it's dedicated consoles with no future there. We'll see how the hybrid thing goes elsewhere.

I don't think Toukiden would have done the same numbers on 3DS though. The reason it sold that much was because there was an audience hungry for a MH like game.

Then why was it on PSP originally?

 

[Takao]

You know full well the 3DS hardware couldn't handle the game. Look at all the other Omega force titles on 3DS, they look and run poorly.

Design Toukiden 2 as a Vita game first. Then release Toukiden 2: Kiwami on NX.

In terms of absolute sales, yes. I'm not taking into account budget, marketing, genre potential and everything else.

NIS is a weird company. Most of their lineup this year seems like things no other publisher would greenlight as a retail product. A remake to an obscure feature phone game? Sure. A spinoff to a series whose two prior entries pushed just 13k? Okay. A weird VN/RPG hybrid? Why not? It seems they're hoping to latch onto a quirky hit, but are going to get a lot of misses on the way to that.

 

[pretty done]

We've seen that MonHun also sells better on handheld in the west.
But let's not transform that into the usual MonHun thread...

There's actually no proof of this, unless you're thinking the Wii U was a good test for if Western console gamers want to play an action game.

Toukiden is fucked in every country though. Just let it die, it will never sell well. The people have shown what they want in a hunting game and it's basically just MH.

 

[MacTag]

I don't think Mac is talking about making it without a Vita/PSP version all the same. That said I don't think 3DS was necessary here/there or for Toukiden 2. If they had remained focused on the Vita with Toukiden 2, I think the series would have done fine and then later, say T3 or T2K, they could have started moving to cross-platform with the NX or some such.

Yes and I can agree here. 3DS is on the way out anyway and T2 would've done best as a Vita focused effort. They still could've squeezed out PS3/4 upports then worry about the jump to NX with T2K or T3.

A 3DS move probably would've done better than the T2 we ended up with though. Shifting to PS4 really just doesn't seem to make sense unless you're releasing a western focused product.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Toukiden can't be on Nintendo machines because it's co-produced by Sony. If Toukiden 3 happens (T2 Kiwami will probably appear due to Omega Force's sheer bloody-mindedness), it'll be Playstation family/PC.

Since Sony is going to be putting a bullet in the back of the Vita's head sometime soon, Toukiden 3 will pretty much have to be PS4-focused..

 

[Parakeetman]

Was surprised to see imas do lower than expected. I wonder if this is due to people getting their imas fix from the various mobile apps? Since I still do see people playing the rhythm game on occasion. The interesting thing too is more than half the time its usually a female playing.

Nice to see that Toukiden 2 is doing sorta ok. At least the game is fairly solid so word of mouth should help push it along. Could be worse lol.

 

[Oregano]

I told y'all publishers would force a transition to PS4 even if it killed them. They drew the battle lines at PS4 and all the other systems can burn for all they care.

 

[Vena]

There's actually no proof of this, unless you're thinking the Wii U was a good test for if Western console gamers want to play an action game.

Toukiden is fucked in every country though. Just let it die, it will never sell well. The people have shown what they want in a hunting game and it's basically just MH.

PS2, Wii vs. 3DS?

 

[Nirolak]

Given how their last year has been going, instead of "Did Toukiden have a future with a different direction?", the better is question is "Does Koei Tecmo have a future?"

 

[Escalario]

There's actually no proof of this, unless you're thinking the Wii U was a good test for if Western console gamers want to play an action game.

Toukiden is fucked in every country though. Just let it die, it will never sell well. The people have shown what they want in a hunting game and it's basically just MH.

In the west, MonHun came out on PS2, Wii and WiiU. In Japan, it was on PS2, PS3, X360, Wii and WiiU. All console versions sold like shit comparred to handheld versions no matter the place. So yes, there is proof. And let's not forget that in the west it started to sell well (even amazing, considering it got to a million) when it was put on 3DS.

 

[Calm Mind]

I kind of feel sorry for developers who put out software constantly on the Vita only to see it wither and die at retail.

 

[horuhe]

Rakuten wasn't drunk at all at those Toukiden for PS4 figures. Shame for the PS Vita version.

 

[Powwa]

Then why was it on PSP originally?

Because back then KT didn't believe Vita was a sustainable platform to have an exclusive game. However Vita version ended up selling 2x more than the PSP version, hence my reasoning.

 

[test_account]

How is Taiko 3DS comparing to the Vita game? Still set for 250k+ LTD?

 

[Escalario]

I kind of feel sorry for developers who put out software constantly on the Vita only to see it wither and die at retail.

I'm not. It's their own fault considering when they have such big markets as 3DS and PS4 right there.

 

[Mory Dunz]

Splatoon is finally slowing down in Japan. I think the bundle's price created some kind of barrier. More than 39,000¥ with taxes is very expensive. Wii U hardware (Splatoon bundle) is fully available.

Was about to ask what's up with splatoon, but I guess that's it.

But isn't splatoon still available to buy regularly?

 

[MacTag]

Given how their last year has been going, instead of "Did Toukiden have a future with a different direction?", the better is question is "Does Koei Tecmo have a future?"

All eyes on Ni-Oh. Musou seems played out, with Zelda being their only recent sign of life there. Maybe Berserk will surprise us though.

In the west, MonHun came out on PS2, Wii and WiiU. In Japan, it was on PS2, PS3, X360, Wii and WiiU. All console versions sold like shit comparred to handheld versions no matter the place. So yes, there is proof. And let's not forget that in the west it started to sell well (even amazing, considering it got to a million) when it was put on 3DS.

Tri did okay in the west on Wii I thought?

 

[leatherhat]

Given how their last year has been going, instead of "Did Toukiden have a future with a different direction?", the better is question is "Does Koei Tecmo have a future?"

Didn't they just post record fy profits back in March?

 

[Infernal Monkey]

I'm sure focusing on PS4 will work out for KT one day... maybe. They just have to burn through a few franchises first.

 

[Nirolak]

Was surprised to see imas do lower than expected. I wonder if this is due to people getting their imas fix from the various mobile apps? Since I still do see people playing the rhythm game on occasion. The interesting thing too is more than half the time its usually a female playing.

Nice to see that Toukiden 2 is doing sorta ok. At least the game is fairly solid so word of mouth should help push it along. Could be worse lol.

The flagship IDOLMASTER game on mobile was the #5 top grossing game in Japan for June 2016 across iOS and Android: https://www.appannie.com/indexes/all-stores/rank/overall/?month=2016-06-01&country=JP

We're looking at a $200+ million a year earner with that one, but yeah, I could see it eating into the console games, especially given the production values aren't even that different:

That said, toward this point:

The interesting thing too is more than half the time its usually a female playing.

Sega was also quite surprised that a large number of women were buying Hatsune Miku titles. However, and maybe it's just due to me not living in Japan where things might be different, but women being into games about female pop stars doesn't seem that odd. I'd actually expect them to be more into it than guys.

 

[Escalario]

All eyes on Ni-Oh. Musou seems played out, with Zelda being their only recent sign of life there. Maybe Berserk will surprise us though.


Tri did okay in the west on Wii I thought?

It did. But not when comparred to Gen 3 handheld entries. I think it didn't even got to a million WW. So yeah, P3rd and 3U outsold it by a lot.

 

[Chris1964]

Famitsu Sales: Week 31, 2016 (Jul 25 - Jul 31)

01./00. [3DS] Puzzle & Dragons X: God Chapter / Dragon Chapter <RPG> (GungHo Online Entertainment) {2016.07.28} (¥4.800) - 100.943 / NEW <40-60%>
02./01. [3DS] Yo-Kai Watch 3: Sushi / Tempura <RPG> (Level 5) {2016.07.16} (¥4.800) - 90.409 / 818.964 <60-80%> (-39%)
03./00. [PS4] The Idolm@ster: Platinum Stars # <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.07.28} (¥8.200) - 74.490 / NEW <80-100%>
04./00. [PSV] Toukiden 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2016.07.28} (¥6.800) - 64.169 / NEW <40-60%>
05./00. [PS4] Toukiden 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2016.07.28} (¥7.800) - 55.771 / NEW <60-80%>
06./06. [3DS] Pokemon Red / Green / Blue / Yellow _3DS Virtual Console Version_ |DL| (Dedicated Download Card Special) <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2016.02.27} (¥1.389) - 13.651 / 228.831 <80-100%> (+63%)
07./07. [3DS] Pokemon Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire # <RPG> (Pokemon Co.) {2014.11.21} (¥4.571) - 13.371 / 3.033.744 <80-100%> (+69%)
08./02. [PSV] Ys VIII: Lacrimosa of Dana # <RPG> (Nihon Falcom) {2016.07.21} (¥6.800) - 9.730 / 57.411 <80-100%> (-80%)
09./05. [WIU] Minecraft: Wii U Edition <ADV> (Microsoft Game Studios) {2016.06.23} (¥3.600) - 8.816 / 70.426 <60-80%> (+3%)
10./15. [3DS] Kirby: Planet Robobot <ACT> (Nintendo) {2016.04.28} (¥4.700) - 8.513 / 356.309 <80-100%> (+121%)
11./00. [PS3] Toukiden 2 # <ACT> (Koei Tecmo) {2016.07.28} (¥7.800) - 7.235 / NEW <60-80%>
12./03. [3DS] Sumikko Gurashi: Mura o Tsukurundesu <ETC> (Nippon Columbia) {2016.07.21} (¥4.800) - 7.094 / 25.034 <40-60%> (-60%)
13./08. [WIU] Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games <SPT> (Nintendo) {2016.06.23} (¥5.700) - 6.580 / 69.010 <60-80%> (-14%)
14./09. [WIU] Splatoon # <ACT> (Nintendo) {2015.05.28} (¥5.700) - 6.042 / 1.374.097 <80-100%> (-13%)
15./10. [3DS] Story of Seasons: Trio of Towns <SLG> (Marvelous) {2016.06.23} (¥4.980) - 4.474 / 171.364 <80-100%> (-28%)
16./13. [PSV] Minecraft: PlayStation Vita Edition <ADV> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2015.03.19} (¥2.400) - 4.397 / 741.429 <80-100%> (-2%)
17./12. [3DS] Mario & Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games <SPT> (Nintendo) {2016.02.18} (¥4.700) - 4.382 / 204.162 <80-100%> (-6%)
18./00. [PSV] Strawberry Nauts # <ADV> (Entergram) {2016.07.28} (¥5.980) - 3.684 / NEW <80-100%>
19./14. [3DS] Taiko no Tatsujin: Don Don! Mystery Adventure <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.06.16} (¥4.800) - 3.478 / 80.930 <60-80%> (-11%)
20./00. [PSV] The Longest 5 Minutes # <RPG> (Nippon Ichi Software) {2016.07.28} (¥3.980) - 2.777 / NEW <20-40%>
21./17. [PS4] Overwatch <ACT> (Square Enix) {2016.05.24} (¥7.800) - 2.660 / 119.255 <80-100%> (-16%)
22./21. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf [Nintendo Selects] <ETC> (Nintendo) {2016.03.17} (¥2.700) - 2.382 / 74.584 <80-100%> (+2%)
23./18. [3DS] Culdcept Revolt <TBL> (Nintendo) {2016.07.07} (¥4.700) - 2.210 / 42.183 <80-100%> (-22%)
24./04. [PS4] Black Rose Valkyrie # <RPG> (Compile Heart) {2016.07.21} (¥7.200) - 2.191 / 14.846 <40-60%> (-83%)
25./19. [3DS] Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice # <ADV> (Capcom) {2016.06.09} (¥5.800) - 1.991 / 258.757 <80-100%> (-27%)
26./23. [PS4] Grand Theft Auto V [New Price Edition] <ACT> (Take-Two Interactive Japan) {2015.10.08} (¥4.990) - 1.910 / 109.058 <80-100%> (-3%)
27./24. [PSV] Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2016 <SPT> (Konami) {2016.04.28} (¥6.980) - 1.798 / 132.213 <80-100%> (-8%)
28./00. [PSV] Kujiragami no Tearstilla # <ADV> (Piacci) {2016.07.28} (¥6.800) - 1.738 / NEW <60-80%>
29./00. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 <RCE> (Nintendo) {2011.12.01} (¥4.800) - 1.713 / 2.564.420 <80-100%>
30./27. [PS4] Tales of Zestiria <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {2016.07.07} (¥3.800) - 1.652 / 10.449 <60-80%> (-5%)

Top 30

3DS - 13
PSV - 7
PS4 - 6
WIU - 3
PS3 - 1

HARDWARE

+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
|System |  This Week |  Last Week |  Last Year |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
| 3DS # |     25.259 |     23.539 |     51.171 |    778.013 |  1.092.540 |  20.814.969 |
|  PS4  |     21.030 |     17.857 |     13.192 |    822.984 |    618.287 |   2.953.717 |
| PSV # |     11.340 |     10.676 |     12.847 |    588.842 |    563.677 |   4.971.259 |
|  WIU  |      6.048 |      5.899 |     12.589 |    258.034 |    334.665 |   3.201.621 |
|  PS3  |        713 |        743 |      2.120 |     36.977 |    146.903 |  10.243.718 |
|  XB1  |         39 |         55 |        120 |      3.486 |     11.065 |      67.537 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+
|  ALL  |     64.429 |     58.769 |     92.039 |  2.488.336 |  2.767.137 |  42.252.821 |
+-------+------------+------------+------------+------------+------------+-------------+

 

[Takao]

PAD turning out to be such a fad (hohoho) on 3DS is kind of surprising. This one had an anime series and a sizeable merch campaign behind it.

 

[Nirolak]

Didn't they just post record fy profits back in March?

That's a good question. Let's find out.

*digs around a bit*

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1213803

It would seem yes, due to two primary factors.

1.) They get paid well for collaborations. I'm guessing the straight payments from things like Dragon Quest and Dissidia are actually very lucrative regardless of how the games go, though royalties there are probably still pretty good compared to the franchises they license themselves that seem to perform worse.
2.) They apparently have a very successful social-browser division. I knew they weren't doing great in mobile, and I incorrectly assumed that applied to social-browser as well. Given they're still successful in browser this far into the mobile revolution, that's actually a really good showing.
Addendum.) These being digital heavy products has also improved their margins significantly.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't understand why Toukiden is focusing on the PS4 now. Do they expect it to make up for the lower sales in the west? They see Vita on the way out and decided to make the painful transition now to pay off later? They somehow thought every PS4 owner in Japan would buy it?

 

[Oregano]

Given how their last year has been going, instead of "Did Toukiden have a future with a different direction?", the better is question is "Does Koei Tecmo have a future?"

They could probably survive working on projects for Nintendo if it came down to it.

 

[MacTag]

Because back then KT didn't believe Vita was a sustainable platform to have an exclusive game. However Vita version ended up selling 2x more than the PSP version, hence my reasoning.

I think you misunderstood me, Toukiden 1 was planned originally as a PSP exclusive, on the same system as Monster Hunter. The "going after a different market" reasoning only came up later when Koei was asked why they went Vita instead of 3DS.

I wonder though if Toukiden 2's results will have any impact on what Namco does with God Eater 3? They also doubled down on PS ecosystem with that series rather than follow Monster Hunter and their efforts to expand it with PS4/Steam ports haven't really born fruit.

 

[leatherhat]

That's a good question. Let's find out.

*digs around a bit*

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1213803

It would seem yes, due to two primary factors.

1.) They get paid well for collaborations. I'm guessing the straight payments from things like Dragon Quest and Dissidia are actually very lucrative regardless of how the games go, though royalties there are probably still pretty good compared to the franchises they license themselves that seem to perform worse.
2.) They apparently have a very successful social-browser division. I knew they weren't doing great in mobile, and I incorrectly assumed that applied to social-browser as well. Given they're still successful in browser this far into the mobile revolution, that's actually a really good showing.
Addendum.) These being digital heavy products has also improved their margins significantly.

Cool. I was just reading Zhuge's writeup about them on his blog. They seem to be doing well even with missteps.

And obviously Berserk will become the most popular game ever released.

 

[hiska-kun]

Because back then KT didn't believe Vita was a sustainable platform to have an exclusive game. However Vita version ended up selling 2x more than the PSP version, hence my reasoning.

And now it seems they don't believe it either.