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Fighting Game Headquarters |4| Cheers Love, the Anime's Here!

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S

SixMachine

Member
Speaking of lag and reacting to jump-ins. With the most recent SF5 patch iirc from watching Ultrachen they made it a frame less and he said it's around 6.5 frames of delay (I remember hearing that the actual lag was in between 7 and 8 frames of delay but people generally rounded up). Which is interesting to me because I wonder if it is enough to please people if true. Kof14 is around 6.5 input delay according to display lag, and I remember T7 is around that ballpark, that is if nothing got changed for Final Rebellion. These games generally feel fine from the people I talked to, and usually if there are any reservations about game feel it is from a system mechanic standpoint, like movement changes in T7 compared to older Tekkens.
 
V

vulva

Member
CountBlack said:
I think you messed up your quote.

Anyway in regards to AA lights, I was gonna add it in the comment but I think I already posted about it here.

My issue with AA lights are the characters that have it while having an invincible DP and that you can mess up on the ground and still have time to AA properly. For example; Chun does st.HP, opponent jumps at the same time -> st.LK -> 50/50. Chun does lp. fireball -> opponent jumps on reaction -> st.LK -> 50/50. Necalli does a far seismo -> opponent jumps -> st.LP -> 50/50. Necalli does st.HK -> opponent jumps -> st.LP -> 50/50. That's where I feel the real strength of AA lights come from. Doing a move with a lot of recovery but still having that 3f gap to AA when most of the cast would be forced to block and hold the pressure.

And st.LP's can beat out cross ups and regular jump ins. My real issue with it is that the characters that do have it, don't need it because they have other buttons or a DP that can work. They should fix the other AA buttons to work more consistently instead of st.LP having a hitbox of an ex DP. I agree with Alex having it because his cr.HP is barely viable as an AA and his ex. Knee is okay at best.

Like in the video I posted, why is Urien's cr.HP getting completely shitted on when a st.LP from Ryu/Necalli would've worked perfectly? It shouldn't be like that, it's really really dumb. Tons of hitboxes on normals that are used as AA's need to be reworked and st.LP's shouldn't stuff out the sun.
Click to expand...
Leave st lk alone. She needs it.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
I have been practicing some Ken on the side for fun.

His combos are just so satisfying and meaty (and honestly not as hard as I was expecting). He's not my type of character but I can see the appeal.

When you hit that HP CC... *whew*
 
V

vulva

Member
CountBlack said:
She kinda does because if not she'd be free to jump ins but it should either be slower on startup or on recovery tbh
Click to expand...

I think if they nerfed st lk but made her back roundhouse have a better hitbox like in the betas, it'd be a fair trade. It'd be a better anti air since it'd catch crossups but it has longer startup, you need the awareness of a directional input instead of just mashing it like I do with st lk (won an evo match by mashing st lk, no lie) and also the good thing is that it does more damage.

To me that seems like a fair trade off, lower st lk's hitbox so she can still use it in combos the same but it just isn't as strong as an AA.

That's just my thought process though.
 
Z

Zissou

Member
CountBlack said:
I think you messed up your quote.

Anyway in regards to AA lights, I was gonna add it in the comment but I think I already posted about it here.

My issue with AA lights are the characters that have it while having an invincible DP and that you can mess up on the ground and still have time to AA properly. For example; Chun does st.HP, opponent jumps at the same time -> st.LK -> 50/50. Chun does lp. fireball -> opponent jumps on reaction -> st.LK -> 50/50. Necalli does a far seismo -> opponent jumps -> st.LP -> 50/50. Necalli does st.HK -> opponent jumps -> st.LP -> 50/50. That's where I feel the real strength of AA lights come from. Doing a move with a lot of recovery but still having that 3f gap to AA when most of the cast would be forced to block and hold the pressure.

And st.LP's can beat out cross ups and regular jump ins. My real issue with it is that the characters that do have it, don't need it because they have other buttons or a DP that can work. They should fix the other AA buttons to work more consistently instead of st.LP having a hitbox of an ex DP. I agree with Alex having it because his cr.HP is barely viable as an AA and his ex. Knee is okay at best.

Like in the video I posted, why is Urien's cr.HP getting completely shitted on when a st.LP from Ryu/Necalli would've worked perfectly? It shouldn't be like that, it's really really dumb. Tons of hitboxes on normals that are used as AA's need to be reworked and st.LP's shouldn't stuff out the sun.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't be able to deal with a fireball by jumping over it on reaction, that's absurd.
 
F

FACE

Banned
Dahbomb said:
I have been practicing some Ken on the side for fun.

His combos are just so satisfying and meaty (and honestly not as hard as I was expecting). He's not my type of character but I can see the appeal.

When you hit that HP CC... *whew*
Click to expand...

I mean, it's SF5.
 
I

irfaanator

Banned
vulva said:
I think if they nerfed st lk but made her back roundhouse have a better hitbox like in the betas, it'd be a fair trade. It'd be a better anti air since it'd catch crossups but it has longer startup, you need the awareness of a directional input instead of just mashing it like I do with st lk (won an evo match by mashing st lk, no lie) and also the good thing is that it does more damage.

To me that seems like a fair trade off, lower st lk's hitbox so she can still use it in combos the same but it just isn't as strong as an AA.

That's just my thought process though.
Click to expand...

that or b hp. for me jab AAs lead into mixups and can deny cross up attempts like ryus lp which is why they're frustating. If they didnt do that shit, nobody would be complaining about a 10 dmg anti air especially in that game where you can jump in again and again and may lose 30% but deal that sweet 60% combo on one jump in combo
 
Z

Zissou

Member
mbpm1 said:
Can't you jump Laura's on reaction
Click to expand...

Total frames (startup+recovery) for various horizontal fireballs in SFV:
Ryu Hadouken total frames: L/M/H = 45/47/48
Nash Boom total frames: L/M/H = 47/47/55
Chun Egg total frames: L/M/H = 45/43/39
Laura Dealio total frames: L/M/H = 47/47/47
Guile Boom total frames: L/M/H = 38/38/38

Laura's (non-charged, obviously) are in line with everybody else's.
 
S

Slamtastic

Member
Who's ready for the Breakaway reveal tonight

https://www.twitch.tv/playbreakaway

AAA, third-person, competitive, melee-action game
Click to expand...

Master Thespian said:
So Amazon has been sending stuff out to popular fighting game personalities for the event in two days. It could be nothing, but I'd imagine there's a reason they seem to be featuring Sajam, Vicious, and Filthyrich among other prominent FGC members.
Click to expand...

please be Anarchy Reigns 2
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
CountBlack said:
I think you messed up your quote.

Anyway in regards to AA lights, I was gonna add it in the comment but I think I already posted about it here.

My issue with AA lights are the characters that have it while having an invincible DP and that you can mess up on the ground and still have time to AA properly. For example; Chun does st.HP, opponent jumps at the same time -> st.LK -> 50/50. Chun does lp. fireball -> opponent jumps on reaction -> st.LK -> 50/50. Necalli does a far seismo -> opponent jumps -> st.LP -> 50/50. Necalli does st.HK -> opponent jumps -> st.LP -> 50/50. That's where I feel the real strength of AA lights come from. Doing a move with a lot of recovery but still having that 3f gap to AA when most of the cast would be forced to block and hold the pressure.

And st.LP's can beat out cross ups and regular jump ins. My real issue with it is that the characters that do have it, don't need it because they have other buttons or a DP that can work. They should fix the other AA buttons to work more consistently instead of st.LP having a hitbox of an ex DP. I agree with Alex having it because his cr.HP is barely viable as an AA and his ex. Knee is okay at best.

Like in the video I posted, why is Urien's cr.HP getting completely shitted on when a st.LP from Ryu/Necalli would've worked perfectly? It shouldn't be like that, it's really really dumb. Tons of hitboxes on normals that are used as AA's need to be reworked and st.LP's shouldn't stuff out the sun.
Click to expand...

MY MOTHAFUCKING NIGGA.

Realist shit I ever read. My exact issues with jab aa. Alex needs it and that's it.
 
P

Producer

Member
vulva said:
I think if they nerfed st lk but made her back roundhouse have a better hitbox like in the betas, it'd be a fair trade. It'd be a better anti air since it'd catch crossups but it has longer startup, you need the awareness of a directional input instead of just mashing it like I do with st lk (won an evo match by mashing st lk, no lie) and also the good thing is that it does more damage.

To me that seems like a fair trade off, lower st lk's hitbox so she can still use it in combos the same but it just isn't as strong as an AA.

That's just my thought process though.
Click to expand...

Yep the bHK from Beta 1-2 was good. It also seemed a bit faster too. I would take that tradeoff
 
K

Kumubou

Member
Rhapsody said:
What games even have 0 frame lag on the game's end
Click to expand...
The only example I can think of is SSBM, which has been measured to have 1-2 frames of input delay -- and there's no way you could get lower on a 60hz device since you would need to wait for the next refresh cycle for the result of your input. And it's always going to be a bit variable because it depends on if your input on the frame was before or after the game polled I/O and started calculating the new game state. Some games (like Dota 2) will intentionally try to delay input handling as late as possible into the next update in order to widen the window for catching that input, and that can shave off a few ms of delay (at the cost of frame pacing issues if the game's processing estimate is wrong).

From a practical standpoint, the lowest I've seen is around 2 frames (like the older Guilty Gear games on arcade and PC, and the PC version of Skullgirls) and the lowest on HD consoles I've seen is 3 (which was with VF5:FS).

SixMachine said:
Speaking of lag and reacting to jump-ins. With the most recent SF5 patch iirc from watching Ultrachen they made it a frame less and he said it's around 6.5 frames of delay (I remember hearing that the actual lag was in between 7 and 8 frames of delay but people generally rounded up). Which is interesting to me because I wonder if it is enough to please people if true. Kof14 is around 6.5 input delay according to display lag, and I remember T7 is around that ballpark, that is if nothing got changed for Final Rebellion. These games generally feel fine from the people I talked to, and usually if there are any reservations about game feel it is from a system mechanic standpoint, like movement changes in T7 compared to older Tekkens.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of the issue comes from what people are used to in older SF games, the relative lack of buffering and the speed of the attacks. TTT2 and T7 are around 7 frames of input delay but it doesn't feel "wrong" because Tekken has always felt like that, normals in the game are slower (jabs are 10 frames in Tekken instead of 3-4 frames in SF5) and the game allows you to buffer movement and attacks. It does cause issues in some areas, such as reacting to things like lows (which is why you see so many newer players go "wtf I blocked that" while they get hit by slower lows -- they did react to the attack before they got hit, but not after accounting for the input delay). Whereas in SF you're constantly trying to move in your optimal range and out of your opponent's optimal range, but the input delay makes it feel more like you're moving toward where they were and kind of have to guess where they're going to actually end up.

Line_HTX said:
Salt over mashing crouching light punch, or 2A...

:T
Click to expand...
Man, people who never played MBAC (not the newer games -- French Bread addressed this to an extent in MBAA and onward) don't even know how obnoxious that shit is -- it would work both on wakeup and in pressure situations and it always led to decent damage and hard knockdowns for every character in the game. That and some characters had 2A infinites in that game (only from some screwey situations but some characters did have viable setups for it).
 
P

pizzacat

Banned
vfNDQKh.jpg


VOLCANIC RIM IS BACK
 
T

Tripon

Member
http://www.fgcnn.com/2016/09/exclusive-details-on-capcoms-latest.html

SAN FRANCISCO, CA - FGCNN has uncovered details of Capcom's next update to Street Fighter V which will include what is being called "A 'Security Enhancement' to improve the Street Fighter experience". FGCNN Analysts have concluded that this is either a way to keep Joshua "Wolfkrone" Philpot from logging into the Capcom Fight Network ever again, or an updated, improved version of their so-called "rootkit", or "malware" which was included with (and subsequently removed from) the latest version of the game.

While attempting to punish loyal, paying customers as well as a few chat monsters who spend too much time shitposting on Internet message boards, Capcom sought to improve the experience of Street Fighter V players by installing a rootkit designed to invasively monitor and examine a player's porn collection and social media posts. The "rootkit" was removed following the fighting game community's outrage, despite not understanding what a "rootkit" even is, and FGCNN has obtained internal Capcom documents which indicate that they're not done with their attempts at sabotaging the computers of their own paying customers.
Click to expand...
 
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