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[mAcOdIn]

The flaw in the original reasoning about sexualization is ignoring the undeniable truth that men will sexualize virtually anybody, unless the character's facial features are so broken you wouldn't want them whether their armor was invisible or a full plate.

Pretty much.

For the record, I don't think sexualization or objectification is necessarily the problem, just that like all things produced to make money, whether games, films, books or whatever they all tend to cater to the larger easy market and don't really serve people with different views. So it's not any one game with a sexualized lead that's a problem, it's that the number of titles to counter them and offer different views of sexualization or none at all is so rare.

If everyone had roughly an equal amount of games that suited their tastes there should be no problem.

 

[Hektor]

Cool that people suddenly care about diversity in Taro's games when his casts have been among the most diverse in games since 2003.

psssh

 

[a very cute dog]

Can you quote them?

Some you can interpret differently, but a few are pretty clear:

More like applauding a man who isn't gonna let a small minority dictate what kind he can and cannot do.

And that's how one should reply to this kind of faux-outrage.

What a fucking boss this man is.

yoko taro is my hero

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

Day 1 now. Going to preorder!

 

[LotusHD]

Anemone's the best of the NPCs I've seen.

One thing I've noticed in general when people point out a character design that they feel is the "best" or "most appropriate", said character always shows virtually no skin.

I find that interesting, because sometimes, while yes, there's tons of problematic designs out there, it really feels like some people are only truly comfortable with a female character that shows no skin whatsoever. Where basically the conclusion being made is that skin = bad.

While yes, the absence of skin would likely be the safest route, I don't think it's impossible to come with a design that isn't overtly sexualized, but also just so happens to show some skin.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

I like it, although I find amusing (in a non offensive way, before anyone says it) how even she, fully clothed, has some tight showing. Yoshida just can't help it lol

Other than the huge belt around her upper waist it's a cool outfit that makes sense from top to bottom.

 

[Obliterator]

I mean he's joking that people are making dirty fan art of his characters and he wants them put into a collection and sent to him.

That's both awesome and hilarious all at the same time.

 

[Hag]

Can he direct Bayo3 pls

 

[pirata]

Dadaist public relations.

 

[Jay Sosa]

Good for him.

And why does it seems people are getting more prude every year?

Go play some bible games if you're offended by some bare skin..

Which is why people like me prefer to use objetification instead of sexualization.
A character can be sexy without being objectified. In games this is HARD but it exists.
What is sexy is based on your personal background, but what is objectified is easily identifiable even if it is a character that falls outisde of your sexual orientation

2B character would have no problem if she was in a puzzle game ... but she is an action game where she constantly jumps and backflips in high heels and pantyshots. This choices objectify the character

yeah..so?

I mean..why does that bother you?

 

[RM8]

One thing I've noticed in general when people point out a character design that they feel is the "best" or "most appropriate", said character always shows virtually no skin.

I find that interesting, because sometimes, while yes, there's tons of problematic designs out there, it really feels like some people are only truly comfortable with a female character that shows no skin whatsoever.

I think this is mostly because it's actually refreshing to see a female character wearing proper clothing in some games, lol. And people assume it's just a matter of covering skin, but clothes can be cool too!

 

[-Mutsukki-]

still not seeing a controversy, just people happy about it?

fair enough. I think "controversy" is a product of wonky japanese translation but eh, it doesn't seem like he himself takes this too seriously either

Some you can interpret differently, but a few are pretty clear:

First post is not wrong though....

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

still not seeing a controversy, just people happy about it?

sure






just from the first two pages

So 5 posts out of 100. Even if you quadrupled that count, that's a very strange definition of "full".

 

[a very cute dog]

One thing I've noticed in general when people point out a character design that they feel is the "best" or "most appropriate", said character always shows virtually no skin.

I find that interesting, because sometimes, while yes, there's tons of problematic designs out there, it really feels like some people are only truly comfortable with a female character that shows no skin whatsoever. Where basically the conclusion being made is that skin = bad.

While yes, the absence of skin would likely be the safest route, I don't think it's impossible to come with a design that isn't overtly sexualized, but also just so happens to show some skin.

It's not really the clothes or the skin in a sense, but scantily-clad females in games are pretty much always in service of and aimed towards a majority-male demographic. You can argue that, say, Bayonetta's sexualized femininity is an important part of her character, but at the same time Ivy from Soul Calibur probably isn't in her get-up for anything other than titillating a few neckbeards into buying the game.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Good for him.

And why does it seems people are getting more prude every year?

Go play some bible games if you're offended by some bare skin..

Someone always has to say this. Never fails.

 

[Opto]

Day 1 now. Going to preorder!

you should have done this regardless !

 

[LotusHD]

I think this is mostly because it's actually refreshing to see a female character wearing proper clothing in some games, lol. And people assume it's just a matter of covering skin, but clothes can be cool too!

Yea I'm aware of that. But sometimes it feels like they're people on the other side of the debate (i.e. the ones pointing out the sexualization), and it feels as if the only way to acknowledge their concerns is to not show skin at all.

Like, I still remember a thread from not too long ago when people apparently took issue with Aloy's (protagonist of Horizon Zero Dawn) alternate outfit, which had her midriff showing. I legitimately didn't know that would also be considered problematic, especially given everything we know about the game.

 

[Mik317]

man some of you could suck the fun out of anything.

yall really turned a thread about a guy going "lol keep dem pornz coming lol" into this.

geez lighten up a bit.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

It's not really the clothes or the skin in a sense, but scantily-clad females in games are pretty much always in service of and aimed towards a majority-male demographic. You can argue that, say, Bayonetta's sexualized femininity is an important part of her character, but at the same time Ivy from Soul Calibur probably isn't in her get-up for anything other than titillating a few neckbeards into buying the game.

I don't think anybody here can disagree to this (although this doesn't make the character herself less of a badass). I think most people are arguing that that is not inherently bad.

 

[a very cute dog]

First post is not wrong though....

Not wrong about what?

 

[Glass Rebel]

Great design!

...

wait...

 

[Ferr986]

Looks more like Kimihiko Fujisaka's work to me. I don't know if he's working on this game, but seeing as how we worked on Drakengard 3, I don't see why not.

Oh, my bad, I was thinking Yoshida was the only one doing the character designs.

Other than the huge belt around her upper waist it's a cool outfit that makes sense from top to bottom.

Wasn't really trying to shit on the design, just found that funny considering how Yoshida designs his females, but seems like I was wrong anyways and it's from another author.

 

[Kinyou]

just from the first two pages

One of those talks about it being a fake controversy while another one is a response to an extreme comment. That's not a great haul.

Edit: No wait, I think I misunderstood the meaning of the one aboutit being a fake controversy. My bad

 

[Jay Sosa]

Someone always has to say this. Never fails.

is this popgaf or some shit?

if you have to say something say something instead of just posting a shitty gif.

 

[killatopak]

Other than the huge belt around her upper waist it's a cool outfit that makes sense from top to bottom.

blame nomura for his amazing belt fetish being popular and by extension michael jackson for making it popular in japan.

 

[PtM]

Great design!

...

wait...

inorite? those SSJs lmao.

is this popgaf or some shit?

if you have to say something say something instead of just posting a shitty gif.

I'll say it.
Shove your condescending, fake progressive attitude. You're not a bastion of freedom for expecting videogame imagery to tickle your balls.

 

[silva1991]

Anemone's the best of the NPCs I've seen.

I was thinking this is good until I saw that unnecessary exposed part.

They just can't help themselves.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Not wrong about what?

Letting a vocal minority (who is probably not even going to buy the game anyway) dictate what you should or shouldn't do with your own work will never result in anything good. You're just going to end up with a frankenstein of a game that you aren't even enjoying and selling it to people who are not going to buy it.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

So 5 posts out of 100. Even if you quadrupled that count, that's a very strange definition of "full".

i cherrypicked the ones that were the most obvious

it genuinely doesn't even matter omg, i'm not sure why i'm still here. i really don't care either way, i think 2b's design is aesthetically pleasing, and this is a non controversy.

 

[killatopak]

I was thinking this is good until I saw that unnecessary exposed part.

They just can't help themselves.

care to cover up?

doesn't matter if it's a guy or a girl. I mean if that much skin offends you...

 

[Gai Murakumo]

This guy knows how the Internet works man.

 

[g.r.e.]

Had a good laugh! Nice take on the matter, mr Taro.

 

[OmegaX0]

Someone always has to say this. Never fails.

Hard not to when every little bit of female skin showing draws out the same posters that go on a tirade every time.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

is this popgaf or some shit?

if you have to say something say something instead of just posting a shitty gif.

Criticism of a sexy design does not make someone a prude.

 

[kvothe]

Good for him.

And why does it seems people are getting more prude every year?

Go play some bible games if you're offended by some bare skin..



yeah..so?

I mean..why does that bother you?

Have you really not heard any of the dialogue about this subject over the past few years?

It bothers people because it's such a common trope to sexualize and objectify women. Our culture is riddled with characters being treated as walking sets of tits and asses. And people are a bit sick of it. They want characters that aren't created for the purpose of masturbation.

 

[Obliterator]

It bothers people because it's such a common trope to sexualize and objectify women. Our culture is riddled with characters being treated as walking sets of tits and asses. And people are a bit sick of it. They want characters that aren't created for the purpose of masturbation.

People just like to focus on this but by and large the majority of games coming out in the West feature non heavily sexualized women.

People think it's much more common in current games than it actually is. At least in regards to the West, Japan still likes to go HAM

 

[snow in jamaica]

i like how not wearing any pants is just "some bare skin"

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Have you really not heard any of the dialogue about this subject over the past few years?

It bothers people because it's such a common trope to sexualize and objectify women. Our culture is riddled with characters being treated as walking sets of tits and asses. And people are a bit sick of it. They want characters that aren't created for the purpose of masturbation.

They don't? Overwatch must be a huge lie then since it kinda from both male and female side. You talk like this is not a very niche game and this is common practice on the whole industry. Maybe maaaybe some years ago it arguably was, but I don't think it's that common anymore.

 

[JusDoIt]

Good for him.

And why does it seems people are getting more prude every year?

Go play some bible games if you're offended by some bare skin..



yeah..so?

I mean..why does that bother you?

Are you for real asking why objectifying a character might bother somebody?

 

[DarknessTear]

I was thinking this is good until I saw that unnecessary exposed part.

They just can't help themselves.

NOOOOO! A SLIVER OF SKIN IS VISIBLE!

Those bastards!

 

[meltingparappa]

Criticism of a sexy design does not make someone a prude.

Well...

'Prude' is a very subjective label to lob, if the greater implication that this will cause the downfall of society.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Hard not to when every little bit of female skin showing draws out the same posters that go on a tirade every time.

being anti sexualisation is not anti sex

digital characters are not real people

2b doesn't choose what to wear so is thus not in control of whether or not she wants to wear sexy panties

same as master chief, nathan drake, catwoman - these characters are designed by people, so when female characters are consistently designed as sexy by men and people critique that, it is not being "prudish", "puritanical" or "anti-sex", it is lamenting the fact that representation like this reinforces certain ideas about women's bodies and your entitlement to them.

*not specifically referring to nier or 2b or anything with this post, referring to the sentiment*

 

[longdi]

Besides the high heels and cute white cotton panties :^), i don't find 2b anymore sexualised than your typical female warrior. She is just a well dressed android

Ff15 arianne is worse.

 

[LotusHD]

It's not really the clothes or the skin in a sense, but scantily-clad females in games are pretty much always in service of and aimed towards a majority-male demographic. You can argue that, say, Bayonetta's sexualized femininity is an important part of her character, but at the same time Ivy from Soul Calibur probably isn't in her get-up for anything other than titillating a few neckbeards into buying the game.

I'm not talking about obvious controversial designs such as Bayonetta or Ivy, that's a whole other topic imo. I don't particularly have any major concerns with some overtly sexy designs like Bayonetta or 2B, but at the same time, it's never going to be a hill I want to die on. I'm of the opinion that a sexy design isn't inherently bad if it happens to show some skin. That being said, that is obviously much, much easier said than done, and even then, it'll be something that everyone has different standards for.

But stuff like this I guess:

Where her regular outfit has her covered, but she also happens to have an alternate one that shows her stomach. Is this legitimately controversial as well? According to some, it actually is, so I found that interesting that even something as tame (imo?) as a midriff is cause for concern.

Hell, Anemone would count too, in that most people seem to be fine with the design, but the little bit of skin that is showing have some go "Why tho" Which is fair, it kinda does come off as humorously unnecessary, but I find it amusing nonetheless.

 

[Hektor]

The weird thing in this case talking about objectification is, that 2B is literally an object in-universe with her entire plot being about the fact of her being treated like an object, if the prequel stageplay is anything to go by.

Have you really not heard any of the dialogue about this subject over the past few years?

It bothers people because it's such a common trope to sexualize and objectify women. Our culture is riddled with characters being treated as walking sets of tits and asses. And people are a bit sick of it. They want characters that aren't created for the purpose of masturbation.

Wouldn't it be better then to critizise those who are doing it, rather than Yoko Taro, who has only made a single sexualized character in his past games (exclusing Automata because that hasn't released yet) for the sole purpose of pointing out how ridiculous said designs are

 

[Evil Monkey DTT]

They also aren't people, they are machines made by humans that have no rights and are made to be pleasing to the eye rather then confortible.

 

[killatopak]

being anti sexualisation is not anti sex

digital characters are not real people

2b doesn't choose what to wear so is thus not in control of whether or not she wants to wear sexy panties

same as master chief, nathan drake, catwoman - these characters are designed by people, so when female characters are consistently designed as sexy by men and people critique that, it is not being "prudish", "puritanical" or "anti-sex", it is lamenting the fact that representation like this reinforces certain ideas about women's bodies and your entitlement to them.

the difference between ordinary designers and yoko taro is that yoko taro more often than not has some bizarre reasoning to his designs. Like I wouldn't count out the humans living in the moon designing the Yorha units to be sex machine outside of work.

 

[higemaru]

People in Taro games are generally pretty scantily clad, Nier is barely wearing a shirt and you can literally see Kaine's areolas in Nier. They aren't lesser characters though, they're still stronger characters who are victimized less than say, 2013 Lara Croft.

 

[Joeku]

One thing I've noticed in general when people point out a character design that they feel is the "best" or "most appropriate", said character always shows virtually no skin.

I find that interesting, because sometimes, while yes, there's tons of problematic designs out there, it really feels like some people are only truly comfortable with a female character that shows no skin whatsoever. Where basically the conclusion being made is that skin = bad.

While yes, the absence of skin would likely be the safest route, I don't think it's impossible to come with a design that isn't overtly sexualized, but also just so happens to show some skin.

Video games have (because of who they are mostly made by and who they are mostly made for) historically been bad about making women sexy without just giving them huge boobs and dressing them ridiculously. Before making this reply I literally googled "sexy video game characters" out of curiosity and this was the first result:

Because apparently in video games being "sexy" often means "dressing completely fucking ridiculously and having massive tits", I think the designs that stray from that just tend to come from less obviously shitty pandering places in general, and are easier to accept as being characters instead of eye candy.

As far as good characters that are sexy with skin showing, Chloe from Uncharted? She wears tight clothing, has midriff (I think), and clearly is there to be a romantic fling and "the dangerous hot girl" compared to Elena. It's Naughty Dog so it's a high damn bar, but between writing, performance, and direction, it works.

This isn't really anything against Taro's games, though. Dude is a thoughtful creator and lets it go both ways. After the demo, I am really looking forward to NA. I really need to go play Nier. I got like two hours in and stopped. Not even sure why.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

the difference between ordinary designers and yoko taro is that yoko taro more often than not has some bizarre reasoning to his designs. Like I wouldn't count out the humans living in the moon designing the Yorha units to be sex machine outside of work.

I wasn't referring specifically to this case, i'll edit my post. I really don't know enough about the design, yoko, or even the game to comment. I was referring to the common criticism that anti-sexualisation = anti sex ultra puritan salem witch hunting.