Peroroncino
Member
The pixel art and overall presentation in this game look out this world, definitely on my radar, especially since it's cyberpunk.
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"The Last Night" (Milkshake Duck incarnate) E3 Trailer [XBO/Win10/Steam 2018]
- Thread starter NeoRaider
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But it's not cyberpunk.
Maybe 'cyber', but definitely not 'punk'.
Cybepunk is more than just cities at night with constant rain.
Yep. It sucks that Microsoft haven't renounced this, seems like they're hoping it all blows over. Many seem to be taking his apology at face value even though a very small amount of digging shows that it's probably not sincere.
If I feel like it isn't a waste of time, I am okay with playing any kind of game if it catches my attention and I am having fun with it. I've spent hours running over everything in the streets in GTA and just having a good old time just messing around as a teenager. I really like Rockstar's Manhunt despite that being a snuff highlight video game where you have to execute to progress in the game and you are fighting the lowest forms of life, that doesn't say anything about me at all. I'm Day one for Crash 2 weeks from now for instance, that's about as far different than say a game like Manhunt.
It shouldn't tell anything about a person. It's that same type of judgmental belief that scares and limits creativity. If someone has a view different than mine where it isn't causing immediate harm or pain to someone(And this game really should not make someone hurt themselves or influence people, if so than there's something else to it besides this game), I can at least respect it enough to be open minded even if I may disagree.
Hitler has been featured in numerous fictional entries like Persona 2, and Wolfenstein series. Regardless if he's depicted evil or not, he's highlighted and a vocal feature of the latter's story. There's a genocidal murder who is considered one of the worst people ever born into this earth and he is getting highlighted in said fictional entries. That doesn't mean I am boycotting any of those games.
Neuromancer
Member
I guess since a deal has already been made, it's too late to do anything about it now.
You can circle the wagons with weak arguments like this, sure. This game isn't the same situation as what you describe. It's made by someone who participates in a movement that actively immediately hurts people, and the game's premise is based on that.
Deals have been dropped before when people involved in them have said misogynistic/racist things. Honestly, they should have done due diligence to begin with, that they didn't is on them. And accepting a half hearted apology is weak too.
Hatefilled Vengeance
Member
What do you want MS to do?
MrMysterio
Member
Love it that there's still people doing "This looks great! Day 1!" drive-bys, "unaware" of any posts made in the thread at all.
Also a classic: arguments about "bad people have been depicted in other media, too!" when this argument has been levered out of this thread pages ago.
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On the topic of publishers like MS and their responsibility in this:
If I had a label that publishes music, and there's an album promoting sexism, I wouldn't release it, unless I'm okay with that kind of opinion.
Now, there's actually a very good chance there'll be a lot of rewrites going on behind the scenes, so the final product might actually not reflect this developer's opinion about gamergate and feminism.
Also a classic: arguments about "bad people have been depicted in other media, too!" when this argument has been levered out of this thread pages ago.
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On the topic of publishers like MS and their responsibility in this:
If I had a label that publishes music, and there's an album promoting sexism, I wouldn't release it, unless I'm okay with that kind of opinion.
Now, there's actually a very good chance there'll be a lot of rewrites going on behind the scenes, so the final product might actually not reflect this developer's opinion about gamergate and feminism.
The store page description on steam already dropped the part mentioning the horrors of universal basic income.
There's no doubt they're hurriedly removing the most in-your-face stuff. It remains to see if they'll also change the story. Originally, the dev claimed that the entire world was based on his regressive views, which will make any late editing really hard without the whole game falling apart.
ForkNetwork
Banned
I"ll wait until it comes out, and if general opinion indicates that the story is still nonsense, then I"ll pass on it. The game looks interesting and this whole situation makes me feel sorry for the team members that have been affected by their stupid director.
If the director's views are as ingrained into the game as he suggests then no one's looking innocent here.
Unfortunately, the writes is also a confirmed gamergator.
The entire team consists of only 6 people.
Drop the game.
If the premise is literally that feminism is evil and created a dark dystopic future, with no irony... you might as well retitle it "GamerGate is the the truth".
charlequin
Banned
Being an asshole isn't a "view," it's being an asshole. Defending people's right to be assholes isn't some cool noble principled stance; it's mostly just also being an asshole. This guy actively supported the hate/harassment movement Gamergate and never recanted in any way until he started getting PR flack over it, which puts him square in asshole territory.
Please tell me you can work out why this is a really bad comparison.
Signing up to work on an indie project (where you're spending sweat equity and attaching yourself directly to the "brand," rather than having a punch-the-clock day job) with someone who's visibly and publicly an asshole is another thing that makes a person an asshole.
Real world example: People coming out of Uber are having hard times finding new work, simply because you have to be an inexcusable asshole to succeed at Uber past just being a driver.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
They don't stand to make that much money off this game, do they?
More_Badass
Member
After the success of recent cinematic platformer games like Inside, the success of recent narrative focused games like Oxenfree, and a new Blade Runner coming soon to get new people and old fans excited for more cyberpunk, they just might see a solid opportunity with something like this
No, it's a drop in the bucket. This hasn't really blown up in the video game press because the video game press has spent years desperately trying to pretend that GG doesn't exist, so there's no real incentive for MS to drop it.
Hatefilled Vengeance
Member
Drop it from whatever marketing deal they (seemingly) have with the game? Or not allow it to be sold in their store?
Joe Condor
Banned
Still need to see gameplay footage, the art style alone doesn't cut it for me.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
As of right now, I have a hard time believing that this game is not going to be one giant soapbox. The fact that Vivian James might still show up kind of solidifies that for me.
But I also agree that they are most likely hacking the script to bits right now due to the backlash. Or they may have simply just removed Universal Income from the Steam Page.
I expect a Lionel Mandrake review of this game.
TetraGenesis
Member
Are people truly entering this thread, nearly a week after Microsoft's conference, not reading the OP or any of the past, say 71 pages, and genuinely posting little "This looks good" and "Day 1" comments out of ignorance? Or is it more likely a subtle form of trolling by GamerGate supporters?
I want to believe it's the former but, man, how oblivious do you have to be?
I want to believe it's the former but, man, how oblivious do you have to be?
It seems to mostly be walking around and talking to people; the only mechanic we've seen is that you can point a gun at someone mid-conversation. Despite the name, it doesn't seem to have actual platforming.
So the gameplay is the story, which is...yeah.
A lot of people just don't read. Look at any other sizable thread.
People post here who still claim to not know what GG is. The level of ignorance of a certain percentage of posters is absolutely astonishing.
Wow this thread really blew up? If the game turns out good, I will consider getting it then- his views honestly sound its coming more from a place of misinformation and ignorance than actual hate, kind of like JonTron- and I don't mean that in a good way, I mean Jon and Soret are too stupid and unintelligent to actually conceptualize their words and arguments in the rational world, they just internalize some non-existent oppression and spout it on the internet to seem cool and feel like they are part of some movement, when in reality they are tools for a larger conservative movement.
Just like the other gators, he has accepted this strawman idea of feminism as the reality, he honestly thinks himself a tortured artist in a "cultural MARXIST Society!" fighting against the system, and that's actually the part that gets me the most- that I ultimately feel sad for people like Jon and Soret to be so lacking in critical thought.
Just like the other gators, he has accepted this strawman idea of feminism as the reality, he honestly thinks himself a tortured artist in a "cultural MARXIST Society!" fighting against the system, and that's actually the part that gets me the most- that I ultimately feel sad for people like Jon and Soret to be so lacking in critical thought.
JonTron wants to cleanse the gene pool. That's not ignorance. That's hatred.
Weltall Zero
Member
You don't think being depicted as evil or not makes an entire world of difference? In other words, you think a game glorifying Hitler would be perfectly fine and worth supporting?
Leaving aside Godwin's Law for a moment, you're not playing as Hitler in any of those games and neither of those games support the beliefs that Hitler believed i.e. the Jews were why Germany lost the Great War, the Germans were descendants of an Aryan race, etc. Wolfenstein pits the player character, a Polish American, against the Nazis because Nazism is a vile ideology that should be opposed whenever it crops up. You can see that with how BJ is gearing up to fight the Reich in the Wolfenstein II trailer and the language he uses to emphasize how much he doesn't want to have his son born in a world controlled by the Nazis. In Persona 2, Hitler is simply the form that Nyarlathotep takes on as Nyarlathotep is the embodiment of mankind's cruelty when given power. It's an explicitly statement that Hitler was evil. Neither of these are examples where the game shows any support for the hateful ideology that is Nazism. The same cannot be said for The Last Night, which imagines a world where "extreme feminism" has taken over/ruined society and Vivian James, a character that was explicitly made to counter the complaints of racism and sexism in the Gamergate hashtag along with #notyourshield, was seriously considered to be a part of the game. The Last Night is virtue signalling exactly what the Gamergate crowd believes in regards to feminism, capitalism (seriously, read the game's description) and various other subjects with nothing to suggest that the game will either challenge or condemn the hatred that was prominent in Gamergate, particularly towards minorities.
In short...yeah, there's a difference between a game where you punch Hitler in sunglasses and a game where equality is somehow a subject of debate.
WhiskeyKnight
Member
Oh I'm fully aware of all the controversy.
Still a day one purchase for me.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
If the creator remains repentant, I'll play his game. I don't really care what "he really thinks" as long as he knocks it off.
Obviously if the game itself is a love letter to gamergate/anti-feminism, then that's a different story. But I simply don't see that happening with the other people involved in making the game and Microsoft being willing to feature it.
Obviously if the game itself is a love letter to gamergate/anti-feminism, then that's a different story. But I simply don't see that happening with the other people involved in making the game and Microsoft being willing to feature it.
It's not "all the controversy".
It's the writer and director being sexist pigs and wanting to make a game about their sexism.
Call it what it is. This is a "day one purchase" for you despite -- or because of -- these facts.
let's see do i fund someone part of a hate group that stalks and harasses women oooor do i not give them money and not throw women and minorities under the bus because i need to be able to enjoy everything without having to think about it from a privileged position
decisions decisions
decisions decisions
The writer seems to share at least some of the same opinions. The main creative forces for the game being gamergaters suggests the game is probably going to be effected.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Its not like buying this game day one is funding the bombing of civilians with white phosphorus in the middle east or the apartheid of palestinians , wanting to buy this game is not a terrible thing, its the more unique looking game announced at E3 and at worst if the game is trying to sell some fucked up rethoric you lost 20$-30$ or maybe nothing with steam/xbox refunds.
It's ok to not want to buy this game for the reasons exposed in this thread or informing people of those facts but chastising people for wanting to buy it seems pointless.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
We'll see, won't we?
If it is some directly reactionary anti-SJW anti-feminist message, then yeah, pretty much a turn-off.
If it's just "aligned with gamergate" in the sense that it isn't interested in avoiding sexualization, violence, or white male characters, I won't really care, because that's every videogame.
The plot of the game is that feminism won and it created a dystopian future. I doubt the message is going to be subtle. I thought you had read everything from this dude? He's not just aligned with gamergate for "outrage culture" he thinks feminism is a form of discrimination.
If I saw someone buying KKK merchandise I would be chastising them as well. Calling people out for supporting shit is what we need to do to stop it. Unless you think all the outrage about people buying confederate flags and getting them pulled from shelves was an overreaction. The fact that MS is still supporting this with a marketing deal or whatever they have is shitty and I expected more from them with the diversity policies they have been enacting.
His twitter likes over the past 24 h don't really tell a strong "repentance" story.
The real cyberpunk dystopia - now social justice flavored - is external biomodifications making it difficult for the alt right to carry out their so-called "peaceful ethnic cleansing". Also, women will have full control over their own bodies and might be able to use technology to mitigate the pain of pregnancy and childbirth, which is just unacceptable.
(One of those was an explicitly stated theme of the game!)
Can't say I expect much out of this game in terms of plot and world building.
(One of those was an explicitly stated theme of the game!)
Can't say I expect much out of this game in terms of plot and world building.
AtomskEater
Member
Yep, very little has changed. Dude isn't repentant about his beliefs or sorry that he threw his lot in with a harassment campaign, he's only sorry that people found out and some are now saying "no thanks" to his game.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
We really have to see the final product because we don't know what that means yet.
If it roasts feminism like Portlandia roasts feminism, that isn't objectionable to me. It could turn out to be to feminism what Demolition Man was to PC culture. Or it could even be far less than that.
If it's actually sexist or anti-woman, then I worry.
Yeah I have read his tweets. Right now I'd put the chances of it being harmless (to me) at about 50-50. I definitely have my line in the sand where I would tap out.
I don't even think he cares that people found out. I think he is more afraid his publisher will drop him or MS will cut his marketing deal.
Also, the writer who posted on GAF never got back to me about the fact that Tim touted his bisexual main character multiple times in that IdleThumbs post presented as evidence of his good character and intentions, and yet also claimed on another channel that a major theme of the game is how "feminism erases genders"... the posts being made a month apart.
I did the calm and respectful discourse and was one of the first people to tweet at him. Doesn't give me hope that my softball question was notably dodged.
I did the calm and respectful discourse and was one of the first people to tweet at him. Doesn't give me hope that my softball question was notably dodged.
Ah, yes, a game from Gamergaters will have the same kind of feminism message as the TV show involving the member of Sleater-Kinney.
Lmao
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