That's how I entered this thread. I think the game looks cool, I read the OP, then went to the last page and felt like I was in a different thread all together and a bunch of angry people were yelling at each other and even asking what was up was met with attitude until some helpful posters updated me. That cycle has repeated over and over.
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"The Last Night" (Milkshake Duck incarnate) E3 Trailer [XBO/Win10/Steam 2018]
- Thread starter NeoRaider
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Could care less about someone's political views or beliefs, if the game looks like something I want to play, I will play it. I don't think someone's ignorant or bad for wanting to buy something they think they will have fun playing.
By no means will I buy this as an F U to a group but because I want to buy a game that I think I will have fun playing. I try to head into all of my gaming experiences with a clear mind and an open mentality to fully immerse into a game, I think heading into a game with a perceived notion does you no good but that's just my two cents.
By no means will I buy this as an F U to a group but because I want to buy a game that I think I will have fun playing. I try to head into all of my gaming experiences with a clear mind and an open mentality to fully immerse into a game, I think heading into a game with a perceived notion does you no good but that's just my two cents.
ShironRedshift
Member
It's a bit of a different matter thought when it's not just the author's political views, but that those political views are what the game itself are about.
But it's all fiction at the end of the day and I like that we have fictional works of art that discuss taboo subjects and offer a different world and aren't cookie cut of the same mold.
I doubt after playing this game that my thoughts in any way get altered.
Spring-Loaded
Member
We all like to think this about ourselves, but it isn't true.
If it were, how has gamergate come into existence and spread at all, then?
People have a problem with this game because it's being touted as story driven, yet that story was said by its gamergater creator to be about how feminism somehow lead to a dystopic world. Sorry's repeatedly shown he doesn't understand what feminism ishe won't be able to deftly handle subjects of social decay in the story (again for his story-focused game) if he doesn't know what he's talking about.
I can't speak on behalf of others but no video game has or will change my thoughts on life and I doubt The Last Night will be the first game successful in doing so.
I can see the frustration if the game is all over the place storyline wise but there's nothing wrong with taking someone's vision/story of something for it's merit when playing the game, even if you disagree as long as the game is fun and you are having a good enough time with said game. If that's what he views the world to be, than so be it.
Would you be okay with playing a game where the world is a dystopia because black people got civil rights just because its fun? This is just an example but playing and enjoying a game that has that kind of story just tells me a lot about that person.
More_Badass
Member
In a narrative-focused game, enjoying and getting invested in the story is kind of an important factor in the game being fun and someone having good time with the game. If anything, the story is the most important part of a game if it's focused on narrative and character interactions
Would you just ignore the story of a game, movie, book, etc. if it portrayed slavery and racism as a good thing, and built its world and plot around white supremacist ideology?
C
Contica
Unconfirmed Member
Did you read American Psycho and think "gee, that Patrick Bateman, swell guy. I wanna be like him!"?
I hope my point carries without me needing to go into too much elaboration on how no, I do not compare Ellis to these devs.
More_Badass
Member
American Psycho was written as a critique and rebuke of capitalism.
This would be more like reading The Camp of the Saints, and coming away thinking its racist/nationalist/xenophobic ideas have validity due to how they're presented throughout the story.
That's the problem. By presenting such ideas through a facade, it can change one's mindset. It's why sci-fi almost always tackles social issues. It's how propagandists can use film and books and comics to spread their ideas. Take such ideas, take them out of the context of reality, and place them in a framework that makes them seem less threatening or even reasonable and sensible through the context of your fictional reality. The ability of fiction to influence one's thinking is well documented
Well there are an awful lot of people who apparently do, so..?
Avatar makes post.
The Hermit
Member
This game looks really good, but why it's thread have so many...
Oh boy!
Oh boy!
Shivershorts
Member
In all fairness, I think everyone should wait for reviews to see what the story really is before jumping to conclusions about an unreleased game.
Refusing to buy this based on your principles is fine, and surely his E3 apology was an attempt to deter any loss of sales due to his tweets, but maybe we should actually see what reviewers have to say about the story before we all assume that it's just propaganda.
If it turns out to be a misogynistic piece of shit or something of the sort, yeah that'll be a pass. But I feel like there's a good chance that having a bigger team working on it and having a proper publisher involved could have watered down any real offensive overtones that may have been there in the first place. We'll see.
Refusing to buy this based on your principles is fine, and surely his E3 apology was an attempt to deter any loss of sales due to his tweets, but maybe we should actually see what reviewers have to say about the story before we all assume that it's just propaganda.
If it turns out to be a misogynistic piece of shit or something of the sort, yeah that'll be a pass. But I feel like there's a good chance that having a bigger team working on it and having a proper publisher involved could have watered down any real offensive overtones that may have been there in the first place. We'll see.
People could also read almost any part of the thread and get the gist of what is going on.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Beyond just "future where feminism won", is there concrete details on what that even means or what this future actually is?
timetokill
Banned
You can read the tweets in the OP, but essentially his previous comments suggested a genderless dystopia where Gattaca has occurred not because of a jobs race but because artificial wombs and progressivism will inevitably lead to mass eugenics. Oh and also genderless women will drink and smoke themselves into oblivion because they don't have to be pregnant anymore.
Fenderputty
Banned
Ohhh you gotta shitting me.
Agreed - I'm hoping to be wrong. Based on the writers twitter antics, I'm be keeping my expectations low.
Mass eugenics is good though, no? I don't really understand what that's all about.
I like the pregnant woman part. There are plenty of people who have no sense of health even if they are pregnant. So some women already got that covered regardless. On the other hand what's to stop a person from getting constantly shwasted and then dropping all the liquor when they get pregnant? Eh, I mean the guy said cooky stuff so I'm not really expecting a thoroughly logical explanation. Sometimes I wonder what his own mom or close family women would think of him haha.
No.
yurinka
Member
I think if Lovecraft would have released his work today he also would have been harassed like this dev.
People should separate the artist from the art.
He exactly said "modern feminism". There is many people (including feminists) who don't like this label nowadays but still agrees the equalitarism ideals behind the feminism.
Some because think it needs to go more radical, others because they consider it's being banalized by many people demanding or complains about stupid stuff instead of demanding important feminist related stuff, others because they think it's becoming too extremist and radical and even attacking men instead of seeking for equalitarism, others because consider it outdated because it should include other oppresed groups, etc.
I'm not sure about his views, but I think people went to bully/harass him too fast. But well, in any case it can't be justified to bully/harass someone.
if a serial killer used the blood of his victims to create a painting would you be able to separate artist from art? there isn't always a clear delineation
One, no because a lot of the time, you paying for the art funds the fuckery the speak. But two, when the artists fuckery is apart of the art, as its seems to be here, that's actually impossible. So no.
Also lovecradft being called on bullshit today would be totally fine, because all that anti semetic stuff
You can't in this case. The artist's disgusting opinions is the major plot points for this game.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Hell, this was the exact premise of Art School Confidential.
Lovecraft was so insanely racist that even back then people called him a racist.
Also, I find it ironic to complain about the dev being allegedly harassed when he himself willingly joined the harassment movement known as Gamergate.
How are we supposed to separate this?
The dude wanted a right wing mascot as a character in the game. Separation is only a thing my salad dressing does
NoMoChokeSJ
Banned
Sorry, but after reading the bulk of this thread I still couldn't tell you with certainty what the game is about and how the narrative plays out over time. Seems like a ton of speculation over a handful of old tweets and some social media likes.
Most people's belief system are not black and white. Plus opinions and perspective do evolve over time. Guy says his view points have changed... Without playing the game it is hard for me to say they haven't. I can agree with a statement without buying into an ideology.
Maybe there is some other meaning (as I had to look it up) but these were the 2 provided by dictionary.com
1. of or bringing about improvement in the type of offspring produced.
2. having good inherited characteristics.
Muffin1611
Banned
How are we supposed to separate this?
I'm having people telling me somewhere else that this screenshot is fake now. Anyone have a reliable source on this?
No, they shouldn't. Not in cases when two of these artists support harmful ideologies & political movement that have caused much harm in the world in the last few years (and even before that, though under a different name). GGers/alt-righters are 21st century nazis (there's no denying it, this "alt-right" re-naming BS is just a successful rebranding done to make them look less horrible and distance themselves from the baggage of nazis, but nazis they are), a homogenous group of mostly white men who think people wanting to improve the stature of other groups of people are something to be dealth with by whatever means.
If you want to monetarely support such people, that's your perogative, but don't you dare ignore the hateful ideologies behind GG & its supporters with shitty "separate artist from art, death of the artist" BS. You are directly giving money to people who support harassment of all kinds towards women, people of colour and different genders & sexualities who dare want better, more equal treatment in society. That's a fact and you can't hide from it behind silly statements like that.
The thing about feminism is that it doesn't try to grab all the power to a small group of people who'd dictate everything & gather all the wealth & power to themselves. It's pretty much the exact opposite. Feminists (outside of niche fringe elements) want power to be spread around between all kinds of groups of people vs. the rich white man dominated world we still live in. Feminism isn't perfect and there are arguments to be had as to how best forward the cause, and yes, feminism does often not do as good a job to represent people of colour as it should. But feminism isn't actively AGAINST them either like these nazi GGers are. It's more of a failure of feminist activists often being largely white (in NA & Europe) so they don't always take into account the plights of non-white people vs. these people being racist who do all they can to trample black people into submission.
... Yes, the point he was trying to make is why I replied the way I did.
Aarglefarg
Member
Eugenics means things including forced sterilisation and killing of 'undesirables'. It can also mean discrimination like rewards for certain people having children but not other people.
No, it's real. I've seen the tweet directly, though he's probably deleted it by now.
Also, Lovecraft and Wagner and all those other shitbags lived in a different era and were still criticized both back when they were alive, and they are criticized now. Everybody looks back at them through the lens of their shitty beliefs; nobody separates the art from the artist, everybody uses the artist to interpret the art.
The Last Night isn't even remotely in the same context. The authors are people who exist now, and support a current hate movement. While maybe in the future people will look back on it and analyze it as a historical thing, saying "but Lovecraft" is not a justification for supporting something that exists as part of now.
Got it. You can see why the basic definition left me confused.
Muffin1611
Banned
Alright. Tried to find it with the waybackmachine already, but finding deleted tweets really isn't easy.
Kind of an "interesting" strategy they're going for, though, if they're trying to claim the deleted tweets were faked.
I use the word "interesting" quite wrongly there
Muffin1611
Banned
Yeah, I was linked to some bs gamergate tweetchains like this: https://twitter.com/eldarmark/status/874509847462412288
With stellar reasoning like "yeah, if it's not faked, why is there no archive?".
Hoped I could get a definite source or something to answer to the guy who send me this. Oh well.
If it was fake, then Soret probably wouldn't have had to make the "apologetic" remarks he's made over these past few days.
Archive.org doesn't seem to have an archive of his Twitter from September 11, but a look at an archive starting at September 18, 2014 says quite a bit on its own.
Muffin1611
Banned
If it was fake, then Soret probably wouldn't have had to make the "apologetic" remarks he's made over these past few days.
Archive.org doesn't seem to have an archive of his Twitter from September 11, but a look at an archive starting at September 18, 2014 says quite a bit on its own.
Yup, I saw similar stuff. Making the argument that this single tweet is faked and thus the game surely doesn't involve this stuff is pretty dishonest.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Goalus
Member
My thoughts exactly.
The worst part is that pieces of shit like him continue to get their feet in the door of this industry.
It seems clear to me that this game is not only made by a gamergate supporter, but has those same deeply misinformed, prejudiced, and misogynistic ideas embedded within it. Judging from Tim Soret's tweets/posts, this is a gamergate game. He has only gone silent and offered som half hearted redirection because his publisher probably told him to STFU. I can't support any of this.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
If it was fake, then Soret probably wouldn't have had to make the "apologetic" remarks he's made over these past few days.
Archive.org doesn't seem to have an archive of his Twitter from September 11, but a look at an archive starting at September 18, 2014 says quite a bit on its own.
Ah yes, the "Higher Form of Racism" angle.
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