Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
What is?
What parts of "modern american progressivism" do you not agree with?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
"The Last Night" (Milkshake Duck incarnate) E3 Trailer [XBO/Win10/Steam 2018]
- Thread starter NeoRaider
- Start date
- Status
Man, I can't believe that thread is still going so strong! I wonder what's going on.
Haha holy shit. I see.
Haha holy shit. I see.
Major criticisms is it has no goal in mind. This is why their are dozens, if not hundreds of movements that had sprawled from the current wave of feminism. When having so much different sections and movements, it becomes ambiguous. Misinformation spreads, and conflictions arise between different groups, and the overall message just gets lost.
Feminism now is so much more then just believing both women and men should have equal rights, considerably in our Western culture and society. To say that someone doesn't support equality because they don't support current feminism is a little naive. I of course don't think feminism is evil as the other user said. I think certain aspects of it are ridiculous and misguided, heavily, but still support the ideas that I believe further us as people into a more fair life, and solve issues we face. I've been reading through the thread the past couple days and have seen some wild accusations thrown around, such as the developer hates women's so much he created this game, as he has stated his mild opinions on topics relating to feminism. I don't agree with that at all.
How come his PC gameshow appearance isn't in OP? He went on saying he was sorry about the tweets then goes on to say the game is about ai that are taking away jobs, way of living, etc. of the people in the cities. Sounds more like hes talking about immagration and different cultures to me.
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Can you be specific? You are being incredibly vague. For example, you say "I think certain aspects of it are ridiculous and misguided, heavily..." without giving any examples.
As for the no goal bit, there is a goal. Equality. Of course, different people have different methods they'd prefer, or would like to focus on different aspects of the inequality more than others. An example would be the differences woman of color are affected by sexism when compared to white woman.
By buying this game, you are supporting neo-nazis. That's the truth of it. This isn't just "oh, these people disagree about taxes", this is "these people actively hurt & harass people of groups other than white men".
His 'sorry' was just PR shit. He's already back on twitter rewteeting gamergators.
Oh boy, can't wait to see what a gamergate dev has to say about different cultures and immigration.
Yeah. It's starting to get too obvious at this point.
paradise_circus
Member
So I somehow thought that there is plenty of gameplay material or sth because of the postcount and know after reading the OP my hype is demolished.
There should be no game that he's worth supporting, I think you missed the point I was making. Hitler has been depicted in forms of fiction despite the atrocities he has made, why even glorify someone like that to the point of taking the time to make his character model or write stories around him if we're going about it from this standpoint?
No one has played the full game of this yet, how can anyone slam dunk saying that the final product of this game will be all negative against women? We have no idea.
You're comparing this to neo-Nazism? I doubt every common person buying this game is buying this out of hatred and to stick it to some people.
Is the creator of this game a neo-nazi or is/was very adamantly "strong" on his views? Not being snarky, just curious.
No doubt in my mind his apology was bull shit. I was just stating that from what was said it doesn't sound like he's talking about women but another subject just as bad knowing his thoughts on the matter. So did the game change?
ShockingAlberto
Member
Yeah, the gamergater's views about immigration and different cultures are assuredly very enlightened.
People are prohibited from saying positive things about the game art style now or whateaver?
The fuck? Might wanna add to the title "please don't come into this thread if not for calling people nazi or talking about the developer's twitter history"
Because that's what i get from your post
I dunno, this instigation of what most likely is an attempt to make women suffer seems like a far bigger issue then just appreciating the art.
Like, seriously, they should feel revolted that such beauty is going to waste because of this man.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I'll let you guys have this, but I just wanted to say that It's incredibly ironic that you post this with the avatar from a press conference making fun of drive-by forum posts.
If you dislike feminism, you dislike equality. It's pretty cut and dry, there's no complex middle ground there.
Zomba13
Member
There are people that don't even read the OP when there aren't even any posts. I'm willing to bet some of them a trolly, but I think most of them are just people who have just heard or seen the game from the E3 stuff and think "oh man, that looks cool. I'll say that in the GAF thread!".
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
85% of Americans believe in gender quality, while 18% identify as feminists.
http://thelala.com/believe-womens-equality-identify-as-feminist/
A full 65% of Americans don't see the two concepts as one and the same. So it is a complex middle ground issue, unfortunately.
What they think doesn't change what is.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Maybe so, but just recognize that most of the country does separate "desire for gender equality" and "feminism".
Insisting that all non-feminists are anti-gender equality bigots would look rather inaccurate in that light.
Are we not sure that this games "feminism" is the absurd / crazy kind? The kind South Park riffed on, the overly PC kind that was mocked in Demolition Man? The extremist side of it which does exist and is often used as fuel by Alt-Right types. Because we haven't seen anything like that view in a game before.
Who the hell is saying that?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Thats exactly me lol
I saw the thread on its first day and thought it was cool, and then i posted this morning without re-reading the OP (i thought it didnt change) because i saw it exploded with thousand of posts thinking people were amazed with it.
Unfortunately this happened for all the wrong reasons xD
There is a huge difference between being neutral towards feminism and being negative towards it.
Also, this writers are explicitly for the idea that equality for women is bad. That's what we mean by "anti-feminist", as do most sane people.
There's no cutting around it. Everybody trying to argue otherwise are either deluding themselves because they want to play a pretty-looking game, or because they secretly agree and don't want to admit it because they'd get banned.
There's no cutting around it. Everybody trying to argue otherwise are either deluding themselves because they want to play a pretty-looking game, or because they secretly agree and don't want to admit it because they'd get banned.
Then they don't know what it actually means and should figure out what they're talking about before they start railing on it.
I take people at face value when they say they dislike feminism. I assume they know what the definition of the word is. I honestly would like to know what they think it means in their deluded little heads.
Weltall Zero
Member
Not really, it's just an incredibly stupid point.
Depicting a person in any way is "glorifying" them? Schindler's List is glorifying the nazis? What the actual fuck? I think you lost the thread of your own argument.
Should we pretend Hitler and nazis never existed and his atrocities never took place? Do you think their victims would be fine with that?
Because the entire premise of the game is a dystopian future explicitly caused by social justice and feminism?
Yeah, it's obvious somebody has no idea. Don't put everyone in the same wagon.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Probably, but then they also like to pretend that's the only type of feminism that exists. He seems to be suggesting postgenderism rather than mainstream feminism.
That's giving him too much credit.
More likely, "eliminate gender" is code for "suppress men and eliminate masculinity out of existence".
Well that's a steaming pile of crap.
As the father of two daughters, Im a feminist. I want equality for them and then not to be held back by outdated beliefs about what they can do.
What you mean is "I found one or two extremes examples in a huge movement that I think are silly. I also don't have sufficient intelligence/life experience to realise that not only does literally every single group have idiots, or that it's easy to pretend to be people you are not on the internet."
And that's OK.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Pretty much yeah.
'There's nothing wrong with thinking feminism is evil' is like reaching 'there's nothing wrong with thinking equality is bad' levels of buffoonery. He's either dishonest, ignorant, hateful, or a combination of two or more.
Weltall Zero
Member
I think the core difference is that believing in gender equality means that both genders should be treated equally (and in that light, it's kind of scary that 15% of Americans don't believe that), while feminism specifically asserts that modern society is biased against women. I believe the huge percentage disparity comes from 1) people that ignorantly believe that feminism means that women should get preferential treatment, 2) people who believe modern society is not gender biased, and 3) people that believe modern society may be gender biased, but not by a large amount to make it a particularly pressing concern.
Anecdotal evidence: I'm pretty much the only person identifying as feminist that I know; mosf women I know (including my SO) don't identify as feminists, but obviously are outraged by discrimination. Unfortunately, at least in my country, the true anti-feminists have done a very good job of associating "feminism" with "politically correctness gone mad" and one of my most hated terms, "feminazi" in the public eye.
TyrantGuardian
Member
Being a non-feminist doesn't make you a bigot. Being an anti-feminist does.
Weltall Zero
Member
Yup, agreed with the entire post, but I'd like to emphasize this point.
That statistic is an argument against this game, because it's exactly because of things like The Last Night that anti-feminist arguments got traction and the movement got its bad name. It proves that people should oppose shit like this even harder, because you can sneak in loads of awful propaganda under the cover of "opinion" or "criticism".
And this is hardly an imaginary worry, as the guy currently living in the White House should prove.
The problem with this is that the premise that TERF's or something took over the world would be like the single dumbest conceit in the history of narrative fiction.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Sure. But some large percentage of those non-feminists who say they believe in gender equality are indeed anti-feminists.
An anti-feminist could be a bigot. But it could also just be a conservative. They are really not into the left-wing whole identity politics angle.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
So... a bigot. Got it!
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Haha. I wouldn't begrudge you that at all.
So what? They're idiots, and I wouldn't expect them to have a coherent objection to real feminism. (...not to mention the US isn't the entire world, and is likely much more conservative in this regard.)
And it has nothing to do with the writers and their game, who are anti-feminists in the full sense of the word.
Feminism is a movement based on ideologies and despite what some people think it does not have a monopoly on/isnt the be-all end-all of gender equality. The movement has many issues which make me (especially as a transwoman) incredibly uncomfortable calling myself one. I don't dislike the idea of feminism but I dislike parts of the movement. I absolutely believe in gender equality. I am not a feminist. (Nor am I "anti-feminist"). I don't know how anyone can suggest that there isn't complexity to it.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It's not my politics, but I don't boycott people for political leanings. I boycott specifically for hate and bigotry.
Since we've already spoken about the various meanings of feminism/anti-feminism, do you imply that they are specifically anti-female equality?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
The only way as far as I am concerned that a person can be anti-feminist and not be an awful person is if their opinion is one clouded absolutely within ignorance. Like a younger individual who grew up in a household with caretakers espousing such rhetoric. But once confronted by reality that should be dispelled, and they lose any benefit of doubt when they maintain their ignorance willingly.
They are explicitly anti-female equality.
What issues does it have?
- Status