So you'll like it as long as it's not funny?
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"The Last Night" (Milkshake Duck incarnate) E3 Trailer [XBO/Win10/Steam 2018]
- Thread starter NeoRaider
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So you'll like it as long as it's not funny?
If the game's story is just pedestrian dystopia stuff, and as long as the creator doesn't go full Palmer Lucky, I say it all blows over. If however the plot is "problematic" then I expect that reviews will make a note of it, and it could very well be one of these things that jumps the "games press" and hits mainstream media.
Regardless of the content, the creator has to be pretty much silent going forward. Has he said anything since his "crisis management team" style letter?
He has liked a bunch of gamergate tweets along with the writer so not really.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It is funny how no one ever calls out that show, even though the message is "feminists can overreach and be really silly sometimes", which I think would be construed as a hate message if it were coming from someone else.
Anyway I don't think it would be like Portlandia. I'm bringing that up because some amount of feminism roasting is clearly acceptable in mainstream liberal society. Just saying you're going to skewer feminism doesn't necessarily make you a hateful bigot, but people are bringing it up like it closes the case.
TLN could be hateful, but just declaring feminism as a target doesn't automatically make it so. As I said, you sure could be right, but I'm waiting until the product is out there to decide.
Ha.
Why are people dumb as fuck? It doesn't take a lot for society to accept you back into its good-graces. If MS drops this game it'll be because of him, because Lord knows they are giving him a chance right now.
The dude literally tweeted #gamergate when he was explaining the anti-feminist message of the game. I don't understand why this is rocket science for some. He still associates with gamergaters.
I can't believe there are still people trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt when literally every indication is that it's going to be gross as fuck.
Would you expect a guy who posts on Stormfront to make a good game about racism? That's the equivalent of the logic people are trying to use here.
Would you expect a guy who posts on Stormfront to make a good game about racism? That's the equivalent of the logic people are trying to use here.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yeah, and he's been forced to repent since then. As long as he repents, the game itself is what matters, so let's see what it is.
I agree that favoriting those tweets is really pushing it.
This is really simple: if it comes out and people say "yes it is as bad as we feared" then he doesn't get my money.
Yes because repenting means liking posts by gamergaters telling him he did nothing wrong and shouldn't have apologized.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
As I said, he's pushing it.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Putting aside your ridiculous hyperbole, if you're cool with giving money to people that belong to a group that incite real, actual violence against women, that's cool.
I mean, these fine upstanding fellows are not guys that are in gamergate but just think it's about ethics in journalism. They're not even assholes complaining about women trying to ruin video games.
They are assholes that made a game about how women lead to the downfall of civilization.
If you are cool giving money to people with those views, then cool.
Buy the game because it looks cool.
Because that's fucking all people have been saying in this thread. That they will buy the game because of the artwork. Against all the evidence that its hate speech. You're going to buy the game because it looks pretty.
EDIT: You wanna buy this game? That's your option. But please spare this thread a rant about how it's better than giving money directly to ISIS. Because that only reveals that you're 100% okay with its bullshit anti-female message.
Oh god the fucker with the fedora. They love to live up to the stereotype, don't they?
Doesn't seem like his apology is sincere. Of course developers are human and naturally we have some who harber weird and bigotted thoughts.
Remember when our beloved Fumito Ueda had this to say when asked why The Last Gaurdian's main character isn't a girl?
"the team ended up going with a boy. The reason: they thought it would be more realistic that he would have enough grip strength to be able to climb around, and because they wouldn't have to worry about camera angles with a girl who wears a skirt."
That's almost textbook sexism right there. But the way it was worded clearly shows the real issue; the obliviousness to it all. Most probably a result of growing up in an environment where that train of thought is considered normal.
Anyways, game looks incredible and absolutely up my alley, but this revelation threw a wrench in the works.
Remember when our beloved Fumito Ueda had this to say when asked why The Last Gaurdian's main character isn't a girl?
"the team ended up going with a boy. The reason: they thought it would be more realistic that he would have enough grip strength to be able to climb around, and because they wouldn't have to worry about camera angles with a girl who wears a skirt."
That's almost textbook sexism right there. But the way it was worded clearly shows the real issue; the obliviousness to it all. Most probably a result of growing up in an environment where that train of thought is considered normal.
Anyways, game looks incredible and absolutely up my alley, but this revelation threw a wrench in the works.
There is a canyon-wide distance between the two. This false equivalency is absurd.
That's certainly clear. Now that he's out of the E3 spotlight and feels like it's starting to blow over he's right back to virtual high-fiving Gamergaters on twitter. Whatever tiny benefit of a doubt I was willing to give him is gone. I don't even care anymore if the game turns out to be free of any misogynist bullshit. I just don't feel comfortable giving support to someone unwilling to renounce a hate group.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Same. I mean, I'm not interested in the game in general, but same.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Hahaha. This is just sad tbh
Having just seen and caught up on all of this, my mind is blown. This went from looking like an amazing retro style cyber punk noire to something that resembles everything I hate about society. fuck that noise, someone legit made a game where progressiveness took over the future and is aimed at feminism by gamergaters? The fuck is that
You are severely underestimating misogyny.
They are both equal in being big issues, regardless of how much actual hate or disingenuity is involved.
Cyberpunk is my fav setting and the trailer was absolutely beautiful. You can imagine how excited I was. Then I started reading up on the premise and the developer... and I'm immediately pulled back to earth.
Just unfortunate.
So youre upset because the creator is getting bullied from his own side (antiwomen and condoning that behvaior) AND from the other side weary of his apology due to the fact he literally created a video game to denounce feminism and its ideals, and to you its a "both sides" thing.
It never ceases to amaze me how people try to make those in the wrong out to be the victim in cases like this. Had he truly changed and deserved the second chance, the game likely wouldnt be about feminism causing a dystopian future
Looks good to me but I'd need to see gameplay. If it reviews well I'd pick it up.
As for the politics, I couldn't give a shit. Michel Houellebecq is blatantly islamophobic and a shit-stirring cunt, didn't mean I didn't utterly love his novel Atomised. I'm glad I had that experience. Mel Gibson appears to be a nasty anti-semite maniac, but I paid money to go see Hacksaw Ridge and enjoyed it, when I found out it was directed by Gibson I didn't regret it. And so on and so forth.
Shit, seeing games all coming from the same point of view gets boring after a while, no? I like that 99% of the time, but 100%? I think libertarianism and objectivism are the stupidest worldviews it's possible for a person to have but if a game were to be made by libertarians espousing those views then I'd actually find that interesting. Have we ever seen anything like that? And if this game is anti-progressive or anti-feminist etc, that could be very interesting, very entertaining - I mean I wouldn't even know what to expect from a future depicted by a person holding those views. It would certainly be totally original in the video game space. I suppose where I disagree with other people is that we shouldn't interact with art that supports worldviews we disagree with or that we shouldn't support artists with such views.
And in the case of this guy, all his opinions seem pretty tame. He's your standard 'PC has gone too far, feminists are the ones really in control' type of dude. Having read through all the links in the OP he comes off as under-informed and unintelligent rather than hateful. I don't see anything in there to justify putting a bullseye of this magnitude on him.
As for the politics, I couldn't give a shit. Michel Houellebecq is blatantly islamophobic and a shit-stirring cunt, didn't mean I didn't utterly love his novel Atomised. I'm glad I had that experience. Mel Gibson appears to be a nasty anti-semite maniac, but I paid money to go see Hacksaw Ridge and enjoyed it, when I found out it was directed by Gibson I didn't regret it. And so on and so forth.
Shit, seeing games all coming from the same point of view gets boring after a while, no? I like that 99% of the time, but 100%? I think libertarianism and objectivism are the stupidest worldviews it's possible for a person to have but if a game were to be made by libertarians espousing those views then I'd actually find that interesting. Have we ever seen anything like that? And if this game is anti-progressive or anti-feminist etc, that could be very interesting, very entertaining - I mean I wouldn't even know what to expect from a future depicted by a person holding those views. It would certainly be totally original in the video game space. I suppose where I disagree with other people is that we shouldn't interact with art that supports worldviews we disagree with or that we shouldn't support artists with such views.
And in the case of this guy, all his opinions seem pretty tame. He's your standard 'PC has gone too far, feminists are the ones really in control' type of dude. Having read through all the links in the OP he comes off as under-informed and unintelligent rather than hateful. I don't see anything in there to justify putting a bullseye of this magnitude on him.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I would rather not see giant companies legitimize hate speech and actively work towards the regression of the video game medium, because that is what this shit does.
It also normalizes this shit.
Why?
So you're all for hate speech normalized in media because it's "original". Okay.
IrishNinja
Member
wait, i'd read the premise had to do with evil basic income or something - it's on about feminism too?
thank you
I wasn't aware that he had committed any hate speech. If he has that's not in the OP. I haven't read the whole thread. Can you point that out? Has he harassed people or advocated violence etc?
And as for the game, there is no evidence that there is any hate speech in it whatsoever. Again, look at my examples. Mel Gibson can make movies free of anti-semitism, Houellebecq wrote a magnificent novel untouched by his islamophobia. Is this game really legitimising hate speech? How? Where?
There is nothing inherently wrong with believing that feminism is evil. It's a differing viewpoint from most here, but a viewpoint is all it is. Depending on what the person saying that defines feminism is would be what determines how extreme a view it is, but if you want to sit at home and think that all day, go right ahead. Gamegate, on the other hand, was wrong because of the harassment, not because of their dislike of feminism. It was created to bully women out of the industry starting with Zoe Quinn, that was its raison d'etre. If it was a bunch of guys who railed against feminism in games in long-winded blog posts or whatnot and never harassed anyone, there'd be no problem. They'd also have nothing to rail against, as explicit feminism in console games is pretty non-existent, but there you go.
More_Badass
Member
It's in the OP, he said the story and world is based around those ideas.
Eh, he isn't owed our full attention. He chose to associate his game with gross views like that, so I think it is reasonable for most people to not want to discern just how gamergatey it is.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Replace feminism with black or Mexican.
You see what's wrong with it now?
EDIT: "Feminism is evil" is in itself sexist because it implies that you believe that women just need to shut up about how hard it is to be a woman.
You're going to have to spoonfeed me because I've read the OP and the links therein twice and I'm not seeing it.
ahem... wtf is this, seriously
You have made the astonishing mistake of comparing a political ideology (feminism) with a race (black) and a nationality (mexican). The latter two cannot be chosen. There is no discourse to be had - black people and people of mexican nationality are simply human beings. Feminism, on the other hand, is a complex series of socio-political opinions that even many feminists can't agree on.
So your comparison does not work in the slightest. Do you see what I'm getting at?
smh, yes there is a lot wrong.
Also why do dudes rush into these thread with the oh I DIDN'T KNOW! PLEASE SHOW ME, SHIT. So insincere. Let's be real, you're going to go to bat for your boy anyway , either because you low key believe the shit he's saying or you wanna play devils advocate.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
What
It's like saying there's nothing inherently wrong with believing that men and women should be equal. Actually it's not like saying that, it is saying.
What the fuck man
I read the OP before I posted, I'm not claiming ignorance, I'm claiming that the evidence isn't there - essentially that the statement made about hate speech is wrong. I'm not saying "I don't know." I'm saying "I think you're wrong, prove me otherwise". There is a difference.
As for there's a lot inherently wrong about thinking feminism is evil... take someone who is anti-abortion. There are many older women in my family (Irish Catholics) who have that stance. Some of them could think that feminism is evil because it has supported abortion, and may have expressed that at times to me. Now, I'm pro-abortion (mostly) (and pro-feminism, mostly, too, while we're at it), but if that's their viewpoint I can see where they're coming from. It's not an inherently evil view. They're not evil for seeing it that way.
And for making that argument you think this guy is 'my boy'? Don't get it. This dude literally came into my consciousness for the first time 2 hours ago.
EDIT: I will say, though, that when I see a pile on I do have a tendency to play Devil's Advocate. You've got me there. But I won't lie to do so.
This is only if you accept that the definition of feminism is 'men and women are equal, full stop', and that said definition is accepted by all people everywhere. Most people take feminism to be the sum of its policies and theories, including, as I've just used as an example, women's rights to abortion.
How the hell does this even make sense?
pretty much
Yeah, use of pro-abortion vs. Pro choice fucking stinks.
This is nonsense. I am always, with the exception of one or two ill advised drunk threads, an intellectually honest poster. Not agreeing with every tenet of modern American progressivism does not amount to intellectual dishonesty, it amounts to having a difference in opinion.
Point out where my conversation here is not in good faith. You can't.
Yes, the use of one of the most core principles of modern feminism (reproductive rights / abortion) to display why some people do not like feminism is somehow irrational and 'stinks'. Sure.
Lmao when your opinion is that not all people should have equal rights your opinion is shit plain and simple.
Yup, arguing a point I didn't even make. Your language clearly marks which side of the fence you squat. Your a waste of time defending a garbage human being. What you hitch your wagon to and all that jazz.
😐 really?
Why would it? Its creators are feminists and 'roast' feminism in a particular way.
For me, the premise of the game, as described by milkshake duck himself, is enough for me to tap out.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
This post, for one.
I didn't expect any kind of coherent response from you, no, but I'm still going to say my piece and defend myself for the benefit of others reading.
I have never said that, even once in my life, and I do not think that. What on earth is happening to reading comprehension in here?
Hilarious recursive logic. Might have worked if I were an android or bot.
That's not the issue people have with third/fourth wave feminism.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Asking someone to debate you and then ending with "you can't" is the definition of not arguing in good faith.
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