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[Hendrick's]

That couldn't be further from the truth.

That's pretty damn ignorant and insulting, honestly. It's one of the most difficult jobs one could do these days in addition to insane hours and a mediocre to poor pay.

I honestly don't understand the reactions in this thread. Absolutely baffling.

I'm sorry, but try working construction and get back to me. For that matter, try being a nurse or police officer or just about any high stress or hard labor job out there. I have zero sympathy for these cry babies.

 

[Cosmogony]

That couldn't be further from the truth.

That's pretty damn ignorant and insulting, honestly. It's one of the most difficult jobs one could do these days in addition to insane hours and a mediocre to poor pay.

I honestly don't understand the reactions in this thread. Absolutely baffling.

What sort of reactions are you talking about?

Because the comment you're replying to seems to be an insular leftfield opinion. Are you talking about Jason himself? The news outlet? Game journalism in general?

 

[Ballthyrm]

Imagine being EA and seeing how well Ubisoft manages thousands of employees across a dozen studios for games that are much better than yours.

I think that's the key here, we haven't hear too many crazy stories like that from Ubisoft, and they seem to treat their employee well. It took Ubisoft a freaking long time to develop the expertise to co-develop games though. EA seem stuck with game by 1 or 2 studios.

We may laugh at the 1000 dev credit on Ubi games, but that's probably what it take to devellop AAA games without taking 10 year between each game or killing your employee in the process(like Bioware).

I don't understand why game developers and publishers can't stick to what they know and are good at doing. Why tackle something you have no experience in, no real fanbase for, and lack the technical ability to complete?

Congratulation you've just describe every new IP ever. The day devs stop taking chances and making new things is the day gaming die. Doing this is literally what gamers expect from devs, they always want new stuff even if they don't know it yet. If we made the same game over and over again, we would still playing Pong.

 

[nowhat]

Yeah, dark, video game journalist is right behind astronaut, Navy SEAL, quantum physicist, and neurosurgeon IMO.

Reading comprehension FTW - he was talking about being a developer?

Which, while may not being as demanding or requiring as much expertise (although, there are some deviously brilliant coders out there) doesn't pay nearly as much as some of the professions you've listed, while also requiring much more hours/month on average.

 

[Trojita]

I think D dark10x is talking about the workers (programmers, etc.) at the companies, the game makers.

Edit: It's vague enough that it is possible that someone could see industry and think everyone involved, but since the thread was talking about development issues making Anthem I figure he is talking about the developers work being harsh.

 

[Fake]

Hmm. Explain it to me like I’m 5. What are you trying to say here?

Depression and anxiety are an epidemic within resetera Bioware.

Spoiler

I not talking about your post, but about the 'article' quote you posted. That offtopic post was just one example. Feel free to see more depression post on 'offtopic' thread.

 

[mckmas8808]

Yeah, dark, video game journalist is right behind astronaut, Navy SEAL, quantum physicist, and neurosurgeon IMO.

I kinda think it is actually lol. Being a games developer can be very mentally taxing work.

 

[iconmaster]

Fake Gotcha. Bioware devs would be the type to post that kind of thing. Sorry to be dense.

I initially thought you were directing the post at me, and while not quite offended I was very confused.

 

[Helios]

Imagine being EA and seeing how well Ubisoft manages thousands of employees across a dozen studios for games that are much better than yours.

EA needs to give their studios less rope.

I don't think those people should work in the industry. You need to look in the past and see what other games have done right and wrong. You can't just go blind into a genre and expect to do everything right just because you're Bioware.

Yeah, dark, video game journalist is right behind astronaut, Navy SEAL, quantum physicist, and neurosurgeon IMO.

but those jobs are extremely well paid. I think the comparison may have been hyperbolic but I don't doubt the fact that there's a lot of stress involved into journalism. At least the ones that don't just write op-eds

 

[Trojita]

I kinda think it is actually lol.

Well not video game journalist. Some people are just regurgitating keyword puff pieces in their "exclusive" coverage.

 

[Fake]

That couldn't be further from the truth.

That's pretty damn ignorant and insulting, honestly. It's one of the most difficult jobs one could do these days in addition to insane hours and a mediocre to poor pay.

I honestly don't understand the reactions in this thread. Absolutely baffling.

To be honest and if I read the article right and by the results of 'Mass Effect' Andromeda fiasco I can't understand why EA keep pressuring Bioware to use that awful engine.

 

[Trojita]

Schreier's POV is very important when considering the validity of this article. I haven't read it yet but something tells me he doesn't have any interviews in there with people who disagree with his narrative. Choosing who your interview, what questions you ask and what answers you put in a story can completely distort the truth.

He mentions reaching out to Bioware and the one EA exec mentioned in the article that played the early demo. They didn't reply back with comment.

 

[EviLore]

Reading comprehension FTW - he was talking about being a developer?

Which, while may not being as demanding or requiring as much expertise (although, there are some deviously brilliant coders out there) doesn't pay nearly as much as some of the professions you've listed, while also requiring much more hours/month on average.

My bad if so. Thrown off by the claim that they get mediocre to low pay.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Electronic-Arts-Salaries-E1628.htm

Also being personally insulted, since dark's in journalism.

 

[Trojita]

To be honest and if I read the article right and by the results of 'Mass Effect' Andromeda fiasco I can't understand why EA keep pressuring Bioware to use that awful engine.

Potential $$$$$

You have your finance people and execs seeing licensing a third party engine as losing money. So instead of thinking about the fact that an engine might cause issues with development, and thus in the long run either cost money or result in less money being brought in, it's thought as something the workers just have to deal with.

 

[Fake]

Potential $$$$$

You have your finance people and execs seeing licensing a third party engine as losing money. So instead of thinking about the fact that an engine might cause issues with development, and thus in the long run either cost money or result in less money being brought in, it's thought as something the workers just have to deal with.

Thats 'why' I quote John on this. I almost follow the path of 'game programmer', but its too stressful. EA cares more about money than about health of his own employers. I even sympathize with D dark10x , but this is EA fault. EA keep doing this for a damn long time, closing game companies, forcing bad practices... but in the end the customers are the fault.
It is past time for EA to assume its responsibilities.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

That couldn't be further from the truth.

That's pretty damn ignorant and insulting, honestly. It's one of the most difficult jobs one could do these days in addition to insane hours and a mediocre to poor pay.

I honestly don't understand the reactions in this thread. Absolutely baffling.

I love you take on video games but come on.

My wife has been a 911 Dispatcher for 20+ years and now run the 911 Center for our fairly large county.

Want to talk about a difficult job?

How about getting the call from a frantic mother who found her 2 year old crawled out the cat entrance and drowned in their pool.

Or getting the call from a your own family member that someone YOU love has died and having to stay on the line and make sure the proper people get enroute to the scene then having to work another 10 hours of your 14 hour shift because there are only 2 on shift.

Making games might very well be hard and stressful but to rate it as one of the most difficult jobs someone can do?

THAT is baffling.

 

[bati]

Schreier's POV is very important when considering the validity of this article. I haven't read it yet but something tells me he doesn't have any interviews in there with people who disagree with his narrative. Choosing who your interview, what questions you ask and what answers you put in a story can completely distort the truth.

You can question his motive all you want, but the last few Bioware titles (Inquisition, Andromeda, Anthem) speak for themselves. What he says is very believable when you objectively look at those games, their lack of vision, uninspired design that seems to have been copy pasted (badly) from the competition at last minute, issues stemming from using engine that is unfit for the type of games they've been making, etc.

 

[VincentMatts]

Working in video games was my dream job and after i worked in it for 6 years, i could not be happier to have left it. Im never going back.

Im sure some work environments are good, but the big ones like EA or Ubisoft, no one actually stays there. Youre a number with a crap pay, little to no benefits and your opinion is non existent. Unless youre a big shot making big money, its not worth it.

 

[EviLore]

but those jobs are extremely well paid. I think the comparison may have been hyperbolic but I don't doubt the fact that there's a lot of stress involved into journalism. At least the ones that don't just write op-eds

Astronaut: $66,000 to $151,000
Navy SEAL: $54,000
Quantum physicist: $72,000
Neurosurgeon: $395,000

Game developer: $102,000
Game journalist: $46,000

 

[TeamGhobad]

for some reason this screen shot looks more interesting than all of anthem

 

[VincentMatts]

Astronaut: $66,000 to $151,000
Navy SEAL: $54,000
Quantum physicist: $72,000
Neurosurgeon: $395,000

Game developer: $102,000
Game journalist: $46,000

game developers did not make that kind of money where i worked lol. I dunno where you got those numbers but its far from the reality in canada.

 

[EviLore]

game developers did not make that kind of money where i worked lol. I dunno where you got those numbers but its far from the reality in canada.

Salaries in Canada aren't competitive with the US market. In Montreal, for example, cost of living is low and game production is subsidized with public funding.

 

[Fake]

game developers did not make that kind of money where i worked lol. I dunno where you got those numbers but its far from the reality in canada.

Always varies man. Game developers here in Brazil are almost in nonexistent.

 

[Fuz]

Finished reading the article.
What doesn't sit well with me is... everyone perfectly knew that the game was incomplete, unpolished, unfinished and a total mess and they still advertised and sold it like it was a perfectly fine product. How is this not fraud?

The game industry seems to be filled with a bunch of whining babies who would die if they actually had to work a hard job.

Seriously. Poor little babies that need 1 to 3 months of leave for stress and sadness

 

[Flying Toaster]

So at the end of the day it goes back to bad management. Badly managed projects in any type of work will always become a dumpster fire. I can see the mental health issues with some devs being an issue as it is stressful to be in crunch under a structure that has no structure and things changing all the time. After seeing the mess of ME:A we really did see the Bioware most of us grew up with and loved was never the same company.

 

[HotPocket69]

Never even heard of the term "stress leave" until this article

Gonna go see if I can take a few months off to chill, smoke weed and play some vidyas. brb

 

[Hendrick's]

Working in video games was my dream job and after i worked in it for 6 years, i could not be happier to have left it. Im never going back.

Im sure some work environments are good, but the big ones like EA or Ubisoft, no one actually stays there. Youre a number with a crap pay, little to no benefits and your opinion is non existent. Unless youre a big shot making big money, its not worth it.

To be fair, that sounds like the majority of jobs I have had with larger companies.

 

[tr1p1ex]

He also wrote the "How BFV went wrong" story. Just replace Anthem with BFV and Bioware with DICE.

 

[VincentMatts]

Finished reading the article.
What doesn't sit well with me is... everyone perfectly knew that the game was incomplete, unpolished, unfinished and a total mess and they still advertised and sold it like it was a perfectly fine product. How is this not fraud?


Seriously. Poor little babies that need 1 to 3 months of leave for stress and sadness

When you have a family to support and the company you work at is high stress, little rewards, it doesn't really matter what you do if you cant just pick up and leave. Just because youre life isnt in immediate danger doesnt mean you cant work in a shitty environment that takes a tole on your mental state. Not everyone wants to be a cop, or a doctor. Some people are passionate about this field, which is why they tough it out as long as they do.

 

[Fuz]

When you have a family to support and the company you work at is high stress, little rewards, it doesn't really matter what you do if you cant just pick up and leave. Just because youre life isnt in immediate danger doesnt mean you cant work in a shitty environment that takes a tole on your mental state. Not everyone wants to be a cop, or a doctor. Some people are passionate about this field, which is why they tough it out as long as they do.

So, what you're saying is, if you have a family to support fraud, cheating and scamming are ok.

 

[VincentMatts]

So, what you're saying is, if you have a family to support fraud, cheating and scamming are ok.

Thats what you got from what i said? How about you learn to read.

 

[Fake]

Worst than this, EA gonna blame someone else, everyone will forget that, EA gonna again force Bioware or other company he still have left to use Frostbite engine or other bad practice, depression and more dev problems in the game progression, tragic launch, poor sales... All over and over again.
Mark my words. Happens in the past and gonna happen again.

 

[VincentMatts]

Worst than this, EA gonna blame someone else, everyone will forget that, EA gonna again force Bioware or other company he still have left to use Frostbite engine or other bad practice, depression and more dev problems in the game progression, tragic launch, poor sales... All over and over again.
Mark my words. Happens in the past and gonna happen again.

EA will never change. Theyve always been like this and will always be like that. Thats why the talent keeps leaving. Cause they know its hopeless.

 

[Shai-Tan]

That couldn't be further from the truth.

That's pretty damn ignorant and insulting, honestly. It's one of the most difficult jobs one could do these days in addition to insane hours and a mediocre to poor pay.

I honestly don't understand the reactions in this thread. Absolutely baffling.

It's also why no devs post on forums anymore. I saw an EA dev suggesting in a thread on resetera about the frostbite engine that maybe random people on forums aren't in a position to judge which was jumped on by some hypersensitive babies triggered by someone pointing out that forums are full of uninformed opinions

 

[wipeout364]

I don't know if I actually learned a whole lot from that article, A lot of it seemed to be things that were sort of floating around for awhile on these forums, since all the sources are anonymous its hard to know what to make of it. I had assumed there were big problems at Bioware for awhile which makes me quite sad. I personally take no joy in what has happened at Bioware but playing Anthem has been quite depressing.

The big thing for me are the characters, I hate them, everybody is terrible and the voice actor for my character (the female) is awful in her delivery, she sounds like a wisecracking marvel movie character. I never expected to be blown away with gunplay in a Bioware game, but I at least expected some decent writing and a good story. It's so sad what has become of this once great company, I think they are actually beyond redemption at this point, they are operating too much in the current political climate to write anything interesting or controversial and EA has their hands tied from a gameplay point of view with their Games as service philosophy. RIP Bioware Thanks for all the great games.

 

[Hendrick's]

When you have a family to support and the company you work at is high stress, little rewards, it doesn't really matter what you do if you cant just pick up and leave. Just because youre life isnt in immediate danger doesnt mean you cant work in a shitty environment that takes a tole on your mental state. Not everyone wants to be a cop, or a doctor. Some people are passionate about this field, which is why they tough it out as long as they do.

Are we so pampered now that working a crap job with crap hours and crap pay and crap benefits is anything more than what you have to endure and bust your ass at so you can get a better job? If you are not happy with your life, it sure as shit should motivate you to do something about it, not cry and wait for someone to bail you out.

 

[Fuz]

Funny thing about this whole mess is... it's not even EA's fault!

 

[VincentMatts]

Are we so pampered now that working a crap job with crap hours and crap pay and crap benefits is anything more than what you have to endure and bust your ass at so you can get a better job?

Not having something "lined up" is reason enough to stick to your current job. Most people have bills to pay, kids, etc. You cant just quit a job without a backup plan. Thats how reality works.

Not everyone lives at home with mom and dad.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Been working on a software project as lead developer since March 2018. We went live with the beta yesterday. Last night was the first time I didn't have anxiety attacks trying to get some sleep at a normal hour.

I don't even want to think what the guys working on multi-million dollar games go through. Jesus. I'd just walk off the roof at some point.

 

[Hendrick's]

Not having something "lined up" is reason enough to stick to your current job. Most people have bills to pay, kids, etc. You cant just quit a job without a backup plan. Thats how reality works.

No shit, I lived that reality. No one lined up a job for me, you know, I actually went out and found new jobs while working my current ones because I hated them so much. Of course I couldn't just quit or take "mental health" leave. It takes actual work and motivation and hunger to better your lot in life.

 

[Helios]

BioWare had programmers with Frostbite experience, so Electronic Arts shifted them to FIFA.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[Whitesnake]

Here’s an archive.is link to the article, because fuck Kotaku.

Nothing about surprises me. It’s the same thing EA’s been doing for a pong time. Rushed deadlines, crunch-time, no focus, monetization over all else, forcing Frostbite down people’s throats, etc.

No one should be surprised. Anyone who was hopeful for Anthem or any upcoming EA projects is a fool.

 

[mckmas8808]

I love you take on video games but come on.

My wife has been a 911 Dispatcher for 20+ years and now run the 911 Center for our fairly large county.

Want to talk about a difficult job?

How about getting the call from a frantic mother who found her 2 year old crawled out the cat entrance and drowned in their pool.

Or getting the call from a your own family member that someone YOU love has died and having to stay on the line and make sure the proper people get enroute to the scene then having to work another 10 hours of your 14 hour shift because there are only 2 on shift.

Making games might very well be hard and stressful but to rate it as one of the most difficult jobs someone can do?

THAT is baffling.

DUDE! He said "one" of the most difficult. Why are you guys turning his statement into the "Career Depression Olympics"? It's not baffling at all. Just seems like you don't know how hard making games can be.

 

[VincentMatts]

No shit, I lived that reality. No one lined up a job for me, you know, I actually went out and found new jobs while working my current ones because I hated them so much. Of course I couldn't just quit or take "mental health" leave. It takes actual work and motivation and hunger to better your lot in life.

Yes, but its not easy when you work OT literally every day and even weekends in order to get to the end of each sprint. Its easy to say "just get off your ass and get a new job". But software development really depends on the mentality the company has.

I was at a company where i was literally depressed all day long. I was working at a help desk. Worst job ive ever had in my life. People with computer problems, who are consistently in a bad mood, taking their shit out on you cause their computer doesnt work when all they needed was a reboot. I stayed there for 9 months, completely depressed. How i managed that looking back is beyond me. But i was stuck, i couldnt get a job and i suffered through it.

One day i walk in, and i was like: i cant do this anymore. So i talked to my parents, asked them if they could help it out if ever i get stuck financially (they said yes) and i left that week. Ended up finding a job the very next week.

But not everyone has those types of opportunities where people can be there to help you out if ever you need it

 

[HotPocket69]

Is Anthem even still being worked on or has it been swept under the rug? I haven't heard anything about it regarding updates in awhile.

How much time we thinkin BioWare has left before they head to the guillotine?

 

[mckmas8808]

Are we so pampered now that working a crap job with crap hours and crap pay and crap benefits is anything more than what you have to endure and bust your ass at so you can get a better job? If you are not happy with your life, it sure as shit should motivate you to do something about it, not cry and wait for someone to bail you out.

Hey GAF! Can I ask you a quick and honest question? Is this Hendrick's poster real? As in are their post supposed to be taken seriously or are they tongue in cheek because I can't tell.

 

[Hendrick's]

Hey GAF! Can I ask you a quick and honest question? Is this Hendrick's poster real? As in are their post supposed to be taken seriously or are they tongue in cheek because I can't tell.

I am as real as the white devil.

 

[HotPocket69]

I am as real as the white devil.

MODS HELP

 

[NickFire]

I've been waiting for this one.

With a staff that needs to lock themselves in a room to cry, I cannot say I am shocked things are not working out.

 

[Cosmogony]

Hey GAF! Can I ask you a quick and honest question? Is this Hendrick's poster real? As in are their post supposed to be taken seriously or are they tongue in cheek because I can't tell.

How about you spell out what you don't agree with?
It'd be a hell lot more productive.