-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bloomberg: Why PlayStation Fans Are Cheering CEO’s Departure
Crayon
Member
What the holy fuck. Companies make more than one thing. For good reasons.
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Can we get an actual fucking Bloodborne 2, now?
Fucking bastard was holding us up all along.
Fucking bastard was holding us up all along.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Have ever thought maybe and just maybe FROM are not interested making sequel to Bloodborne? I LOVE that game and Sekiro but its up to FROM if they want make sequel those games or not.
akaFullmetal
Member
I had no strong feeling either way towards Jim. Interesting to see who will take over.
kiphalfton
Member
I hope one day somebody reports "why everybody is cheering Jason Shrierer's retirement from journalism".
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Bro, they made 3 Dark Souls games. That's all I have to say. I don't know why you feel compelled to answer my post, when it's the same interaction as before. I want a Bloodborne 2, you want me to stop asking for it, as if I didn't drop 9000+ hours on the game . It is what it is, man? Don't you think?
ProtoByte
Member
Yeah, and the whole strategy is going to entirely shift with Ryan out.
The 55-60% is just realistic on their part. These live service games have long revenue tails, but that inherently comes with cost tails too. At least they didn't go in thinking they could make a cheap and easy buck with cheap product.
Why is it "Jimbo went insane"? A lot of this stuff was no doubt greenlit before Layden got ousted, and we know Hulst and Guerilla already had plans for online Horizon way before that.
It's not Ryan's fault that game development has gotten marginally more expensive and longer, and that workers now expect not to have to be in the office and a better work-life balance. If we're being for real, next gen or not, Ryan's management as handed over from Layden has been way more productive for PlayStation studios than ever before at this stage in the life cycle. Killzone Shadowfall was irrelevant, Knack was Knack, and inFamous Second Son was an underwhelming tech demo of a sequel that didn't sell very well - neither did Bloodborne, which was in no way a technical showcase. The first real 1st party PS4 exclusive of well-rounded consequence was Uncharted 4, released 30 months after the PS4's launch.
That said, yes splitting the teams or dedicating them to live services entirely is absolutely going to have an impact on their productivity. There's just no way around that. Let's just be happy that Ryan didn't pull a Wilson or Kotick and abandon single player games for most of the longest generation yet before crawling back.
Nintendo has the benefit of kid-friendly IP that they've literally been rehashing from the 80s, on inferior hardware with technologically inferior games. Two installments into PS4 series, people either want PlayStation sequels to overhaul themselves into a defacto new IP, or want Sony to move onto an actual new IP like they grow on trees or something.
How'd they spit on that audience? You got Forbidden West and Ragnarok already. You got a new fucking Ratchet and Clank. You're going to get a new Spider-Man, and most certainly another Ghost.
That's just not realistic: everything comes at the cost of something else. Sony doesn't have unlimited funds or capacity for managing projects.
I'd also ask that you reconsider your statement about not caring about Jason's agenda. Let's not forget that he was the one who tried setting the anti-work crowd on fucking Naughty Dog in his crusade against crunch. What he wants isn't what you want: E.g. next gen games that push the envelope. Ironically, the live service direction where game development is less about projects and more about maintenance would suit his preferences well on paper.
Last edited:
ChuckeRearmed
Member
We have seen that with Honkai Rail where Mihoyo said that while it generated revenue, they generated less profit than expected due to Honkai and Genshin cannibalising each other. A lot of these long running GaaS games are basically their own independent markets and we see more and more often that new GaaS games just don't succeed that much anymore - in comparison to their predecessors - as a lot of people, who like GaaS games stick to their favourite game and play it all the time, spend money on MTX there.
I believe that unless one (or several) of the current big GaaS games go away, more and more GaaS games will flop by not being able to attract the consumer. Like If you are into F2P what stops you from playing Warzone, CS and Fortnite? Why would you move to some new game?
Last edited:
Hudo
Member
One of my biggest wishes.
Physiognomonics
Member
Thank you for this. This is exactly how I see it since the arrival of Jimbo in 2019. For some reason Sony is chasing the business model of MS but that model doesn't work for MS and it won't work for Sony either. On the other hand their previous business model used in the PS3 and PS4 era was perfectly working for them (and it still works wonder for Nintendo) and they stupidly decided to ditch it.
This guy, Jimbo, is not a videogame fan, and we knew from the start he doesn't like or understand videogames. The only things he likes are short term benefits and his bonuses. And he leaves at the right moment for that, reaping the success of past execs.
Last edited:
Eh, it’s just gamers tilting at windmills. PS5 is a great console with a solid first party line up so far, Spider-Man 2 is coming next month and Death Stranding probably next year, neither of which are GaaS. PS VR might be niche but at least they’re not playing it safe.
Buying Bungie was a capital acquisition and their games will be self-published, it doesn’t affect first party software budgets at all but brings a huge amount of talent and technology in-house.
I’ve seen Xbox fans trying to spin the narrative that Jim Ryan is being sacked, even though he’s going to be in charge for another six months. Let them dream. PlayStation is in great shape as far as I can see.
Buying Bungie was a capital acquisition and their games will be self-published, it doesn’t affect first party software budgets at all but brings a huge amount of talent and technology in-house.
I’ve seen Xbox fans trying to spin the narrative that Jim Ryan is being sacked, even though he’s going to be in charge for another six months. Let them dream. PlayStation is in great shape as far as I can see.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
he is not departing
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Bit mean, guess the hardcore sony fanbase didn't like him either.
Thirty7ven
Banned
A sign of a demanding fanbase, which isn’t a surprise considering the historical meaning of the brand and the culture that was built around it.
It’s very very healthy.
kazuyamishima
Member
I understand Jimbo wasn’t beloved among a lot of users.
But he did a good job regarding what was most important for the company, making a good profit.
But he did a good job regarding what was most important for the company, making a good profit.
I'm nobody
Member
They are not playstation fans
SplunkyMunkey
Member
Jimbo was running sony to the ground with gass games and ps plus price hike with no justification the studios they brought maybe veterans but they haven't made one single game
Last edited:
Thirty7ven
Banned
While that might be true the PlayStation showcase was a sign that Jimbo didn’t have the finger on the pulse when it comes to PlayStation fanbase.
Almost every decision he made in terms of messaging, marketing, software focus, was to reach out to people that are not the hardcore. He took us for granted and that’s a fact.
FeralEcho
Member
Who the fuck would trust sony with fucking first party gaas games when they end the servers to their games after 5-6 years,gaas games take that much to even get good lmao Jimmy boy is like all the other money hungry ceo's- a goddamn shortsighted moron
justonething
Jada's BFF
lughnasadh123
Member
I thought it was from all the weebs pissed it's not as Japan-centric as they want.
Sanepar
Member
They already were with the gaas initiave. London studio is making a crap that probably will result on the studio closing. Naughty Dog became a total mess. Sony doesn't know where they are going. Poor comunication with fans. No roadmap of future sp games beside wolwerine. Ceo leaving.
Topher
Gold Member
Edgelord79
Gold Member
I never said they wouldn’t make single player games anymore. Not sure were you got that. I posed a question they are likely to ask themselves. The issue is that they cost so much to make in their current iteration.
I’m not looking for a constant argument it’s exhausting. I’m just positing questions.
Last edited:
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Do PlayStation fans really think Sony’s going to abandon GaaS monetization, regardless of who’s in charge?
Sony’s not going to give up on the monetization potential.
Sony’s not going to give up on the monetization potential.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
The same fanbase that mainly plays Fortnite, COD and Fifa? Because those are the main PS consumers.
midnightAI
Member
Proof of any of the above (except the CEO is leaving)?
(I'll give you poor communication, but when has it ever been good and what has that got to do with the CEO leaving? If anything wouldn't that potentially improve things if the next CEO is better at that?)
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
He sure ignored my voice. When I clicked on his tweet I discovered he's blocked me. I'd only responded once to one of his tweets and that was enough.
Topher
Gold Member
I have no such expectation myself, but I do hope the next guy doesn't treat single player games as an afterthought like it has been the last two years.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
We've seen a number of SP titles cannibalizing each other as well over the last 20 years. The most talked about example is Titanfall 2 releasing right next to Battlefield and CoD. In that time, the SP market has steadily grown in revenue.
I'd also have to see some numbers on Honkai + Genshin because I suspect, while a cannibalization effect did occur, both titles are generating more revenue than what Genshin did alone. IE Honkais release did grow the market.
This effect has always been true though. This point of yours was true in 2007, 2010, 2014, and it's true today. Over that time, multiplayer popularity has skyrocketed. So you'd need to give me a year or time period when the Live Service market went from undersaturated to oversaturated. I haven't seen anyone able to do that yet.
Consider this...
Look at the purple projections in the top left graph. Think of all the metrics and resources PlayStation has at their disposal to inform them on how to spend their money. A lot of highly qualified people are looking at a lot of data and going "PlayStation would best be served by spending 60% of its resources on Live Service games and 40% on SP."
Are these people so incompetent that they haven't seen examples of GAAS flops or do they see certain GAAS flops as less important in the larger picture?
No one plays F2P. That's like saying "People are playing $70 dollars". You don't play a business model. You play games.
People move to new games because they grow tired of the game they've been playing and find a new game more interesting. MP and SP gamers are no different in this regard.
Last point...I think the main idea GAAS nonbelievers don't see is that, relative to SP, GAAS games are in their design infancy. The industry has spent 50+ years mining single player and has much more recently unearthed the "games are a way to connect humans" idea. Fortnite, Roblox, CSGO, and Minecraft are not the peak of the mountain when it comes to connecting humans. They are clumsy first steps. The next 20+ years game design as a way of connecting people will make absurd strides. Good luck betting against human connection.
Last edited:
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I don’t think they’ll abandon those games, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they were no longer the main focus.
I hope Nintendo doesn’t also get bit by the GaaS bug.
Last edited:
DrFigs
Member
Nintendo already has a bunch of great gaas games. their fans are just not bothered by it.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Which games are GaaS?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Kids are generally much more open to new ideas. It doesn't cross their minds that they're not supposed to like Zelda and Fortnite. Only when we age do we start becoming rigid and brittle.
DrFigs
Member
i'm counting mario kart, splatoon, and smash bros. these games have fairly intensive dlc / microtransaction support. but they don't use the live service buzzword, so it's fine.
edit: I think i am wrong about the microtransactions. I thought for splatoon you could use real money to unlock stuff - but it seems that you can't, except via amiibos. But I don't think this is what makes it not gaas. they still have an in game economy, they still do limited time events, and it still has dlc.
Last edited:
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Eh, I don’t really consider DLC that I can play solo offline to be live service.
Live service to me is always connected online, with new community events popping up, and new downloadable extras being waved around. Like Diablo 4 is live service to me. Mario Kart is closer to an expansion pack.
They might do that with Splatoon.
Last edited:
Topher
Gold Member
Yeah, I just can't imagine they would abandon single player given the fact that they are the bedrock that PlayStation first party is built on. But I never imagined PlayStation would make these Gaas moves to begin with so guess that's not worth much. For me personally though, 2024 is going to be a crossroads year for PlayStation.
Perhaps, but that really isn't comparable to Sony's massive push in the direction of Gaas and I think that is what
SmokedMeat
is talking about.
Last edited:
ChuckeRearmed
Member
And that's why we had studio closures and games flopping due to that.
Honkai: Star Rail has likely passed $1bn already – but has seriously eaten into Genshin Impact's earnings - Mobilegamer.biz
A new report from Naavik suggests that Hoyoverse has moved players from Genshin to Star Rail only to find the latter doesn’t monetise as well.
mobilegamer.biz
So what if they are doing projections? The same way they adjust them each quarter. "We expected this, this did not happen, we are adjusting them" or the whole COVID fiasco (or worked as planned) where the endless growth ended.
TerribleAtThisGame
Member
Yes because surely the next guy won't double down on the previous boss' model. I'd be more surprised if we don't see adventurous stuff like Returnal disappear instead.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
That article doesn't have enough information in it. Regardless, pointing at a GAAS failure and saying "See. The GAAS market is saturated" is as silly as pointing to a SP game failure (Immortals of Aveum) and saying "See. The SP market is saturated."And that's why we had studio closures and games flopping due to that.
Honkai: Star Rail has likely passed $1bn already – but has seriously eaten into Genshin Impact's earnings - Mobilegamer.biz
A new report from Naavik suggests that Hoyoverse has moved players from Genshin to Star Rail only to find the latter doesn’t monetise as well.
Growing markets always have failures.
Two points:
1. Are you also adjusting your projections based on new evidence? Or are you a "I don't like GAAS so GAAS is about to fail" type?
2. I think it's safe to say PlayStation is confident in their projections that the GAAS market is going to rapidly grow over the foreseeable future. Adjustments sure, but the overall trend is obvious.
avin
Member
I think Jim Ryan was honest. By his lights, the business of games is a business, best run by businessmen like him. Passion wants to do things but by itself crashes and burns, or otherwise comes up short. At the end of the day, money is what matters, and makes everything else including passion possible. If Sony's GAAS games succeed, even one, it'll provide more money for other things.
It's the unromantic hard-edged Ami insight, it's the way the world works. None of us probably like it, but it could be the way things are.
avin
It's the unromantic hard-edged Ami insight, it's the way the world works. None of us probably like it, but it could be the way things are.
avin