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[Axios] Former PlayStation worker sues gaming giant, alleges gender discrimination
- Thread starter Bernd Lauert
- Start date
Tripolygon
Banned
You are intent on not using your brain at all.
Here you are assuming the woman I trained was more qualified. She was not, I had been at the Job much longer and was good at it. I trained her, I would know.
Here is me telling you that you are wrong they knew I was good at the Job so they offered me more money.
Never sued anyone in my life but I know how much my time is worth and will find another Job that values my time. Again, think before you type.
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Herr Edgy
Member
It's like some of the people you are arguing with can't fathom the idea that companies can pull bullshit actions for bullshit reasons and that you ain't obligated to be a bootlicker.
Those people have never seen offices of large corporations from the inside, where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and tasks are constantly delegated, not to be efficient, but to make them go out of sight. No responsibility is taken and therefore no one can be blamed directly.
But no, your experience can't be correct, every company and every manager always chooses what's best for everyone, e = mc²
People in game dev move companies all the time for higher pay and better titles btw, has nothing to do with "nagging" either.
Bragr
Banned
I'm not sure if you are trolling or crazy. Listen, I have no idea what a hell happened at your workplace, and I really don't care.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Well it all goes hand in hand with all of the self eval stuff you mentioned; whether truly objectionably measurable or not, categories are created.. employees are asked to pick focus areas and then grade themselves, document their accomplishments, give feedback in feedback systems (*cough* mostly Workday *cough*), request feedback, etc. If a client sends a nice email about you, make sure you fwd' that to a manager and they should be putting it in your official record too.
Point is to have legit evidence of why someone is paid what they are paid, and why someone is in the position they are in. Same with stuff like salary tables, well defined roles, etc.
There's better or worse versions of all of it of course, but people who want to excel at a workplace like that really should participate fully in them. Even if you are a legit standout, obvious candidate for a raise or promotion, etc., document why in those systems that might seem tedious.
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Kerotan
Member
Complaining that she was over looked for men in terms of promotions. Maybe she needs to look at herself and ask why. Companies generally don't promote people with victim mentality attitudes.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
You are just demonstrating exactly why so many of these complaints are valid; when you construct a worldview like this you tend to have confirmation bias. You go in attributing negative things to women, and positive things to men.. well that's bias.. it will effect your choices. This exact attitude is why men so often do not even consider a woman for a leadership position, even if she's never demonstrated anything related to the stereotype they've formed.
Man some of y'all really need to get out more or something.
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If she was fired after sending this letter, whether on right or wrong basis, then fuck Sony they're gonna pay hard money for that kind of move.
If the basis of the letter was true, then that's even worse and Sony is going to get people coming at them eventually.
If not, well good riddance and I'd even say Sony is at fault for hiring this kind of manipulator.
If the basis of the letter was true, then that's even worse and Sony is going to get people coming at them eventually.
If not, well good riddance and I'd even say Sony is at fault for hiring this kind of manipulator.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
It's like some of the people you are arguing with can't fathom the idea that companies can pull bullshit actions for bullshit reasons and that you ain't obligated to be a bootlicker.
Those people have never seen offices of large corporations from the inside, where the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing and tasks are constantly delegated, not to be efficient, but to make them go out of sight. No responsibility is taken and therefore no one can be blamed directly.
But no, your experience can't be correct, every company and every manager always chooses what's best for everyone, e = mc²
People in game dev move companies all the time for higher pay and better titles btw, has nothing to do with "nagging" either.
How would you respond to the argument that if person A can negotiate (by whatever means at their disposal) a better deal than person B, they deserve the better deal?
To me, this seems entirely reasonable as it shows social skills and emotional intelligence that would be valuable to any employer.
The whole pay-gap argument has always struck me as pretty fraudulent. If employers could routinely get away with paying women less why not hire just women? I mean we see this sort of calculation in business everyday as evidenced by the trend towards outsourcing labour to the cheapest location.
I hate to say it, but if a sexist boss is willing to pay a premium to indulge his sexism... is that not actually a good thing? Because in the final analysis how different is it for the same boss to hire a local workforce even though he could get it done overseas for lesser cost?
I mean essentially its the same thing, its opting to support one economic group over another!
Obviously, I highly doubt that this is what is actually happening in the overwhelming majority of cases, and any sort of gender imbalance is a result of a large number of factors; none of which are sinister.
Tripolygon
Banned
You cared enough to interject to tell me someone else was more qualified at a job I trained them for. You cared enough to tell me I was bitchy and confrontational, cared enough to tell me I come off as someone who would sue a rock. Now you don't care anymore. Lmao
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Tripolygon
Banned
Here here.
MrFunSocks
Banned
They also stayed quiet about all the allegations at Naughty Dog and people just looked the other way.
I notice you didn’t answer the question.
nush
Member
Gender and Mental Health: Do Men and Women Have Different Amounts or Types of Problems? (Chapter 13) - A Handbook for the Study of Mental Health
A Handbook for the Study of Mental Health - November 2009
www.cambridge.org
Everyone is biased and that's normal.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
It's probably a combo of things.
1. Techie companies love hiring all kinds of weird people (I guess for diversity sake), so you get fallout of odd people. There's shitloads of people who work at banks, oil companies and your local cable and internet company where each one has 10000s of employees. How often do you ever hear about discrimination at those companies?
2. Its tech again. So when there are issues, the first thing the victim does is do public twitter battles for pity points while trying to drive the company into the ground. Even funnier is that the start of the social media battle isnt even conviction after a court resolution. It's all accusations publicly pointing fingers.
I'm sure every person knows someone at work who got fired and then came back with lawyers fighting for more money or trying to get the company to admit they fired the person without good cause. Or hates a boss or cafeteria food. Whatever the reason.
How often have you seen them do public battles? From personal experience, none.
But tech workers have a knack for acting like crybabies.
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captainraincoat
Banned
As soon as u start trying to meet gender/race quotas the idea of dismissing someone because they are just bad at their job becomes much harder
u need the good old days
u need the good old days
Genx3
Member
This is very difficult to judge since every person is an individual who's pay is likely based on their performance.
Say you have 10 men and 10 women doing the same job.
If you have 8 women that are great at their job and only 2 guys that are equally great at their job with their salaries reflecting their skill. That would mean 8 women have higher salaries than all but 2 of the men.
Does that mean that the company discriminates against men? No that just means that company pays salaries based on performance.
nush
Member
If I get passed over fro promotions you know what I do? Start looking for jobs externally that will quite often pay higher than what I'd have earned with the promotion and I get a clean break from all my previous responsibilities. A clean slate and a fresh start. Especially if I had a big brand on my resume like Sony.
She was asking to get promoted after just one year and then for the following 5 years. Take the hint.
She was asking to get promoted after just one year and then for the following 5 years. Take the hint.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
farmerboy
Member
nush
Member
String of sub 2 year jobs before that, at least she did stay at Sony for 6 years but probably torpedoed her chances promotion begging. If she had got one promotion in all likelihood she'd start begging for the next level one right away. Asian companies typically value loyalty and long term service before you even get a chance in my experience.
EDMIX
Member
yea I was waiting for some details on that.
Wrongful termniation? Sure...they probably have a case....maybe, but based on gender? I need them receipts lol
Kacho
“Majo alleges that she was ignored by a manager who only responded to men”Oh give me a break"
lolz
I need a fucking recording or some video footage of her saying some shit like "I have an idea...sir...sir" and then he's like "ok only men ask me questions..." lol
Or "Sir...theres a fire" (Male manager walks past fire like nothing is wrong, only acknowledging the office is on fire when a man yells fire) lol
I'm not saying this doesn't happen folks, but this is a claim, we need some fucking receipts! I need some footage of this happening, we all do to even support this fucking case as its simply an entire claim of something happening that we don't know if its true or not. Such a thing shouldn't even be hard if its so overt and the do it alllllll the time
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Goalus
Member
At REEE you would get banned for that.
I agree though, both sides could have made mistakes.
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Gameplaylover
Member
Druckmann must be absolutely furious right now.
Bragr
Banned
People who use lmao and lol in every sentence are like girls who giggle when they get nervous.
GeorgPrime
Banned
Sounds better in the news lol
WitchHunter
Banned
WitchHunter
Banned
Jaffe also complained in interviews about payment. : )
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Bernd Lauert
Banned
Ten seconds of watching her is enough to see her as a huge red flag. Imagine hiring someone like her lmao
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
nush
Member
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
any sane person would reply like that.
“I know I’ve only just started working here, and my track record of staying in a job is questionable at best, but do you fancy giving a crazy person more responsibility and more money? Oh, and if you say no like any sane person would, I’ll claim sexual discrimination. So, what you say?”
Herr Edgy
Member
Of course it's fine negotiating a better deal for yourself. Although I also believe it's arguable that two people in the same position with the same responsibilities should be paid similar amounts, i.e. one shouldn't make 50k while the other makes 80k. That being said, qualifications and responsibilities are hardly quantifiable, especially across teams.
I imagine a tools programmer in a different team than me makes different money as well. Same title, not the same responsibilities. That doesn't mean mine are more or less than theirs, but it's hard to say "I deserve more" based on someone else's profile.
I imagine for certain roles it becomes easier though.
Employers don't pay better because you negotiating implies soft skills though lol.
They pay because they want to have you and don't want to cause trouble right off the bat. If they are able to afford your demands, as in, you are within the range they were willing to agree to, often times it's just a matter of asking rather than negotiating. There is no skill in that, you just need to put on your big boy pants to gather courage and ask.
Once you step over the line of their range, that's where negotiations come in. But I'd argue that often times that line isn't being crossed in the first place.
Personally I believe when I'm in a workplace that doesn't take me or my wants seriously, I'm in the wrong workplace and should look for new ventures. Then again this comes from an understanding of me being reasonable. Not everyone is. If the woman in question was simply incompetent yet demanded a promotion, I do think managers owe her a confrontation. Sidestepping issues as she says in the documents is a real thing happening in companies infected by nepotism. I'd also be looking elsewhere though.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Jim cast the first stone. Now all eyes are squarely on his own house.
Wonder when the Microsoft accusations will begin?
Wonder when the Microsoft accusations will begin?
nush
Member
First week after the holidays.
kuncol02
Banned
Long Before Divorce, Bill Gates Had Reputation for Questionable Behavior (Published 2021)
Melinda French Gates voiced concerns about her husband’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and a harassment claim against his money manager. He also had an affair with an employee.
Nickolaidas
Member
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I think this is really on point. My experience would lead me to believe small-scale cronyism is a far more prevalent cause of unequal treatment within organizations than gender discrimination. Its a huge issue because I can't imagine how you could disentangle the two.
I mean if promotion is tied to being part of an in-group bound with an out-of-hours social connection, if that group is totally or predominantly male and you are female its going to look like institutional gender discrimination despite it being equally suppressive to males deemed unfit for access to the clique. What's worse is there's no real reason to highlight this because bringing it to light would undermine claims that the problem is specifically one of sexism. Gender discrimination being perceived as especially egregious and so a more political expedient angle for legal action.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
One is a class action though indicating "systemic" problems. The other isolated. That's more of what I meant.Long Before Divorce, Bill Gates Had Reputation for Questionable Behavior (Published 2021)
Melinda French Gates voiced concerns about her husband’s relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and a harassment claim against his money manager. He also had an affair with an employee.www.nytimes.com
AJUMP23
Gold Member
In my industry it is dominated by men. Any women with the qualifications and can string two sentences together (a degree in math or science) will be hired instantly and competed for. I was told by one large company president when I was younger they only cared about retaining minorities. They had bad minority retention numbers and they were focusing on fixing that.