• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

How Xbox Was Finally Proven Right in 2021

Aion002

Member
Day 1 Playstation gamer: This is the first gen that I am wondering if I need a new Playstation.

Yeah... Sony first party games are amazing... But I already have so many games to play on game pass without spending more and I do have limited time.

Also, being able to play Xbox games on my smartphone/tablet and PC without any hassle it's just...

Lachlan Murdoch Reaction GIF by Murdoch Mysteries
 

Lethal01

Member
Class leading games :

One of best fps ever made: Halo Infinite

Best driving game ever made bar none: Forza Horizon 5

One of best platformer if you are mature: Psychonauts 2.

Nintendo's output isn't the best this year, but Metroid Dread, Shin Megami Tensi and Monster hunter rise are definitely more than a match for the xbox's best. So they still have a ways to go before their beating anyone one the game front. They are doing a little better though.
 

Topher

Gold Member
My XSX is a great console, but I think it is more correct to say Xbox "finally got it right" and that was in delivering top-notch games. A bit odd that not once does the author mention "Halo" or "Forza" both of which brought Xbox back into the GOTY conversation. If we are going to reflect on the first year then how is it not about the games?

Come On Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
This is an odd flex… are you sure you are posting a Spencer interview and not Sony ponies propaganda here :pie_diana:?

What happens once the rollout of true next-gen games starts? What are you saying to your XSX owners?
That is an odd way to state whatever positive message he wanted to state.
It's not odd in context with the rest of what he said. Series X isn't their winning strategy and they don't care whether it sells as much hardware as PS5. Series S, PC, Gamepass and Xcloud are the strategy.

Series X is for the people on forums like this, who think they're winning because they bought the more powerful box and like brag about how much time they spend building collections. They need their box to sell more than the other box to feel validated and to feel like they're part of the winning team. Microsoft still caters to those people with this XSX and the traditional game store/physical media.

Series S is the way they plan to get normal people who touch grass paying money every month for access to software via Gamepass. They want people who game on PC, who already have hardware and have moved past physical games, paying them every month for Gamepass. They will ultimately want people with Xbox One hardware sitting around paying for Gamepass to pay to play new games through Xcloud. Microsoft is in business to sell software so targeting PC owners and lower cost hardware to get people to pay for Gamepass is their strategy.

Microsoft knows they can't win on the pure hardware sales metric so they aren't trying any more. They're focusing on software revenue and trying to make that hardware metric irrelevant.It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out.
 
Xbox had a great year no doubt but I had more fun playing on my PS5 this year.

Most of the new big games on game pass expect Halo and Forza wasn’t that great to me. Plus Xbox has always had Halo and Forza so they didn’t do anything new. I want to see some great new IP from Xbox and I think Starfield will be a great start to that next year.

It’s been so long since Xbox has had this much positive momentum and I think people are over exaggerating a bit. Game pass showed great potential with bringing Halo infinite and Forza horizon 5 to it day one but they will need more great new IP IMO.
 
Last edited:
Why does it seem like 99% of the population doesn't seem to understand the difference between "objectively" and "subjectively"? This annoys the fire out of me.
Not sure what the issue is. Game pass is objectively better than any other game subscription service. Day 1 games is the critical feature. The Series consoles backward compatibility is 2nd to none it is objectively better than anything any other platform holder is doing. Obviously specific games are completely subjective but there are aspects of the Xbox platform that are objectively better.

On the broader topic is clear MS has put the X1 mistakes behind them and are correcting the things people complained they lacked GAMES. No one can seriously say Xbox has no games now and even more awesome is I can take old games I bought years ago and still play them, in many cases at higher resolutions and frame rates. It is nonsense to say any company loves you but it's clear MS respects my money and is focused on providing value and convenience to the customer. That is what I care about the most. They are doing right by their customers.
 

Iced Arcade

Member
I don't understand. Are they class leading in games over Nintendo and Sony first party games? What exactly does that mean?

Completely asking out of curiosity. No ill intent or secret agenda behind my post.
Ya have to remember, xbox had a handful of studios last gen but acquired all those studios and now are a monster in terms of 1st party.

Games take time to develop but each year is going to be amped up more than the last.

Personally hope Xbox always trail, #1 spot always gets comfortable and complacent while the the other has something to prove.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
Not sure what the issue is. Game pass is objectively better than any other game subscription service. Day 1 games is the critical feature. The Series consoles backward compatibility is 2nd to none it is objectively better than anything any other platform holder is doing. Obviously specific games are completely subjective but there are aspects of the Xbox platform that are objectively better.

Pretty much making IFireflyl IFireflyl 's point. Objectively, you can say Game Pass has X number more day 1 games than any other or Series consoles have X number more BC games. To say they are "better" is completely subjective. So you can use objective statements to back up your subjective opinion of which is "better" but saying "Game Pass is objectively better" is simply incorrect.
 

tmlDan

Member
Day 1 Playstation gamer: This is the first gen that I am wondering if I need a new Playstation.

Yeah... Sony first party games are amazing... But I already have so many games to play on game pass without spending more and I do have limited time.

Also, being able to play Xbox games on my smartphone/tablet and PC without any hassle it's just...

Lachlan Murdoch Reaction GIF by Murdoch Mysteries
If you really were a PS gamer you'd be using PS Now for the same options. Yes, the games aren't brand new but there are over 800 of them.

OT: at this point MS just has GP as its bonus and why it's competitive. They haven't released a new IP yet and im not confident in them at this point. Playing Halo and Forza, they still feel rather basic but with money polish - i would love something ambitious by them and i'm looking at Starfield to bring that. I'd say 2021 was a weak year for both publishers in that regard so im looking forward to what both bring in the future.
 

Chukhopops

Member
Got my nephew a XSS with a year of GP for Christmas. Not only was he NOT mad about it being a S, he loves it, when we hooked up the system to set it up I saw what made GPU so great. Once the system was setup and his GPU active, he was able to just click on Halo Infinite and begin playing it without any waiting for a 20gig install thanks to the cloud gaming.
Nephew upgraded from a launch Switch to a XSS and it took him a bit to understand the GP games didn’t have to be bought individually and you could just play all of them like that. He ended up playing Fortnite but at least he has an opportunity now.

Series S maybe has it's place but it's a bad value console tf/usd compared to bigger consoles
Interesting thinking since I’m pretty sure the best TF/USD ratio is a Xbox Series X (or a PS5 DE but then no physical games) easily beating any gaming PC or competing console.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Nah... sorry. Its a mixture of good, bad, and more of the same.

Really can't see what's been different about 2021 compared to previous years. GamePass is good, but it was good last year. Backwards compatibility is good, but again what changed last year apart from the program finishing? Oh, and of course with Series S being digital only, if you weren't already an Xbox owner with an existing library of digital software, you'll find yourself locked out of a load of it!

For example although it was nice to see Otogi 1 & 2 added to BC, only the first game seems to be available digitally... so whoopity doo.
 

Topher

Gold Member
The Xbox style eco system is the future. Once steam deck is out you’ll see this sort of symbiotic relationship between technologies play out as well.

This doesn’t even mention the continued advancement and proliferation of azure and all of the implications of that.

Good time to be a gamer.

Steam Deck? The hell does Steam Deck have to do with Xbox?
 

tommib

Member

Some interesting points here and good to see that Phil Spencer is changing the narrative about the Xbox and what you expect from an ecosystem.


"there are just some ways that the Xbox team seems to be objectively showing us a better path forward through both good times and bad."

"The simplicity and affordability of Game Pass make it that perfect way to expand your horizons and try new games. Creatively speaking, that’s honestly what the industry needs most right now."

"while I won’t pretend that the Xbox team’s backward compatibility programs are perfect, the gap between their efforts and Sony and Nintendo’s efforts in that arena is becoming a little depressing."

"When I talk about the Xbox team being proven right in 2021, I’m especially talking about programs like Smart Delivery that show us there are sometimes ways to do things that are simply better."

"the Xbox Series S isn’t another budget next-gen console; it’s a viable alternative to more powerful consoles that just aren’t as useful right now due to the slow rollout of true next-gen games."

"Microsoft is investing a lot of money into the idea that next-gen software and next-gen power don’t have to be so closely associated with a piece of hardware."

It's been a great year for Xbox with this multi pronged pushing of gaming forward, pleased to see them getting the recognition they deserve.
Agree. Xbox had an amazing year and it’s so good that there’s some competition again on the premium console space. Everyone just wins with Microsoft delivering great games and disrupting the market with gamepass and the S.
 
Last edited:

Rivet

Member
If you really were a PS gamer you'd be using PS Now for the same options. Yes, the games aren't brand new but there are over 800 of them.

OT: at this point MS just has GP as its bonus and why it's competitive. They haven't released a new IP yet and im not confident in them at this point. Playing Halo and Forza, they still feel rather basic but with money polish - i would love something ambitious by them and i'm looking at Starfield to bring that. I'd say 2021 was a weak year for both publishers in that regard so im looking forward to what both bring in the future.

Yes, they could write (or buy) hundreds of promotional pieces like that and it wouldn't change anything. Sony and Nintendo are on top because they make better games. Games are what matters on a game console. Gaming is not really about "value", gaming is cheap overall.
 
Last edited:

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Nah... sorry. Its a mixture of good, bad, and more of the same.

Really can't see what's been different about 2021 compared to previous years. GamePass is good, but it was good last year. Backwards compatibility is good, but again what changed last year apart from the program finishing? Oh, and of course with Series S being digital only, if you weren't already an Xbox owner with an existing library of digital software, you'll find yourself locked out of a load of it!

For example although it was nice to see Otogi 1 & 2 added to BC, only the first game seems to be available digitally... so whoopity doo.


It's not evolutionary. It's just more of the same .. but better.

Game Pass also loses games, that's true. But the new additions more than make up for it, and this year had probably the best MS first party output in a LONG while. Halo, Forza and Flight Sim (on consoles) among the hundred+ more games.

Same for BC. Yes, the program was there, but we got a lot of new games and more importantly a lot of FPS boost games, including FPS boost on 360 games for the first time.

It's an iterative process and if it continues to iterate similarly, we will be saying 2022 was the best year for the ecosystem come this same time next year.

Yes, they could write (or buy) hundreds of promotional pieces like that and it wouldn't change anything. Sony and Nintendo are on top because they make better games. Games are what matters on a game console. As long as they continue making the best games, I doubt things will change. Gaming is not really about "value", gaming is cheap overall.


I disagree with the gaming is cheap part, well, outside of a Series S. Gaming is still an expensive hobby. You've got $500 consoles, $60 games and if you're opting in, more payments for monthly/annual subscription services across the devices as well.

edit: also just to add, adding value features may not be one persons PRIMARY reason to get a console, but it sure as hell adds up over time.
 
Last edited:

FritzJ92

Member
Yes, they could write (or buy ?) hundreds of articles like that and it wouldn't change anything. Sony and Nintendo are on top because they make better games. Games are what matter on a game console. As long as they continue making the best games, nothing will really change. Gaming is not really about "value", gaming is cheap overall.
Acting like value isn't important is not the kind of direction I want this industry to go towards

Sony and Nintendo are on top not because they simply make better games, its because they have the historic nostalgia with the majority of gamers, and have established their presence worldwide. There are so many countries Nintendo and Sony support that Xbox doesn't even have a retail channel in. Xbox historicalyl has games that will go toe to toe with the best of Sony and Nintendo, but they don't have that historic footprint of worldwide presence. Remember the Xbox 360 succeeded from its North American sales.
 

Rivet

Member
I disagree with the gaming is cheap part, well, outside of a Series S. Gaming is still an expensive hobby. You've got $500 consoles, $60 games and if you're opting in, more payments for monthly/annual subscription services across the devices as well.

Look, your $500 console can easily make you 8 or 10 years, that's not much money when you think about it, $60 / year... Most people only play a few games per year and it's pretty easy to wait a bit for prices to come down to $30 / big game, many great games of the past can go for $10 or under. That's not that much money in a year. Gaming isn't about value per dollar, in my opinion. Make the best game, that's the one people will pay to play.
 
Last edited:
Steam Deck? The hell does Steam Deck have to do with Xbox?

I think he is trying to say many people that buy a SteamDeck will use it as a Gamepass machine?? I know Total War: Warhammer 3 is launching Day 1 on Gamepass around the same time that SteamDeck launches in February. Its a big PC game and I can see it bringing in a lot of PC/Steamdeck players into Gamepass.

Xbox is doing good and had the best year of the Big 3 IMO. I shit on Sony for their lack of vision/commitment on not having or building a true GP competitor but PS5 lineup looks really good next year with exclusives. Better than Xbox and I am an Xbox guy.
 

Rivet

Member
Acting like value isn't important is not the kind of direction I want this industry to go towards

Sony and Nintendo are on top not because they simply make better games, its because they have the historic nostalgia with the majority of gamers, and have established their presence worldwide. There are so many countries Nintendo and Sony support that Xbox doesn't even have a retail channel in. Xbox historicalyl has games that will go toe to toe with the best of Sony and Nintendo, but they don't have that historic footprint of worldwide presence. Remember the Xbox 360 succeeded from its North American sales.

Xbox best period is definitely Xbox 360 period. What happened at that time ? Sony stumbled, and MS had the best games for some time. That's when people switched allegiance, look how it happened precisely at that time and only at that time. You can see it in the UK, not only in the US. UK became a major Xbox territory at that time, Xbox was in front of Sony in the UK at that time. Nowadays it switched back because of Xbox One TV strategy we all know about. It's all about games.

And it's not that value isn't important, but great AAA games cost a lot of money anyway. Even if they're part of a subscription model. Someone has to pay for it, and it can only be us in the end. Be careful what you wish for. AAA games in a subscription model will probably mean there will be a lot of microtransactions, or a higher subscription price in the long run.
 
Last edited:

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Look, your $500 console can easily make you 8 or 10 years, that's not much money when you think about it, $60 / year... Most people only play a few games per year and it's pretty easy to wait a bit for prices to come down to $30 / big game. That's not that much money in a year. Gaming isn't about value per dollar, in my opinion. Make the best game, that's the one people will pay to play.

Right, so to your point, that's where the value proposition that Xbox currently offers better than the other two primary console makers come into play.

You've got a service like game pass which guarantees you all MS published games day 1, along with a whole host of third party games day 1. It's relatively cheap, and you can off set the annual price in just 2 day-1 released games (or hell, if you use CDKeys, you can get 3 years of GPU for $96 only, no joke).

And you've got a huge suite of legacy games, many with visual/performance enhancements without needing dedicated re-releases. Don't forget how much shit we all gave Jim Ryan when he made that "no one plays old games" comment. I'm very confident he got a lot of shit from PS4/5 owners there too, not just other console folks.

As for first party, yes *CURRENTLY* Sony and Nintendo offer better first party games. And I think that's the main reason MS spent $7 billion to get Bethesda (and other studios). Starfield is a good year away and its already one of the most hyped up game, and it won't release on PS/Switch. Same for all future output from any Bethesda owned studio, Arkane, Obsidian etc.

This is coming from a long time Sony stan, Series X was just a far more appealing console to me during the current gen launch window. The PS5 right now is a "maybe a few years later" proposition.
 

Billbofet

Member
Funny the handwaving specific to Halo and Forza 5 as just being more of the same in prettier packages, but when Sony does it (Ratchet/Demon's Souls) - THEN it's true next-gen.

MS has undoubtedly had a great year and it's good to see their long-term plans paying off for consumers. Competition is good and will drive the others - well maybe not Nintendo - to up their value prop as well.
They learned a lot from the Xbox One whiff. Congrats to them.
 
Pretty much making IFireflyl IFireflyl 's point. Objectively, you can say Game Pass has X number more day 1 games than any other or Series consoles have X number more BC games. To say they are "better" is completely subjective. So you can use objective statements to back up your subjective opinion of which is "better" but saying "Game Pass is objectively better" is simply incorrect.
I was going to disagree with you off top but I am interested in hearing which game subscription service and which backward compatibility direction is objectively better than what Xbox is offering right now. I'd take even a subjectively better offering. Let's hear the debate.

With objectivity it should be a fact right? Is there any other platform holder offering a superior backward compatible solution right now? I have NEVER heard of it so I'd like to be enlightened. If you can't name any how can you say it's not a fact?

Same with Game pass. It is not about the number of games, it isn't about the quality either. It is about all the features it offers that are simply unmatched. How is it not a fact if you can't put something up that at least sparks a sincere debate?

I was very specific. It is not a MS is objectively better than Nintendo or Sony thing. I am talking features, breadth and depth of Game pass and backward compatibility on the Series consoles. Sometimes facts are facts.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I think he is trying to say many people that buy a SteamDeck will use it as a Gamepass machine?? I know Total War: Warhammer 3 is launching Day 1 on Gamepass around the same time that SteamDeck launches in February. Its a big PC game and I can see it bringing in a lot of PC/Steamdeck players into Gamepass.

I think the vast majority of SteamDeck customers will be Steam customers. As great as Game Pass is, its success seems to be squarely in the console space. The presence of so many Xbox games on Steam's top seller list is evidence of that. And for SteamDeck to become a Game Pass machine would require its users to do a clean install of Windows on the device. Don't think that is going to happen in high numbers, but I could be wrong.

Xbox is doing good and had the best year of the Big 3 IMO. I shit on Sony for their lack of vision/commitment on not having or building a true GP competitor but PS5 lineup looks really good next year with exclusives. Better than Xbox and I am an Xbox guy.

I'm evidence of how well Xbox has done as I completely skipped Xbox One but now have XSX. Great console. Between PS5 and XSX, I've become more of console gamer than PC gamer and I never thought that would happen.

I was going to disagree with you off top but I am interested in hearing which game subscription service and which backward compatibility direction is objectively better than what Xbox is offering right now. I'd take even a subjectively better offering. Let's hear the debate.

With objectivity it should be a fact right? Is there any other platform holder offering a superior backward compatible solution right now? I have NEVER heard of it so I'd like to be enlightened. If you can't name any how can you say it's not a fact?

Same with Game pass. It is not about the number of games, it isn't about the quality either. It is about all the features it offers that are simply unmatched. How is it not a fact if you can't put something up that at least sparks a sincere debate?

I was very specific. It is not a MS is objectively better than Nintendo or Sony thing. I am talking features, breadth and depth of Game pass and backward compatibility on the Series consoles. Sometimes facts are facts.

Actually, facts are always facts. Saying something is "better" or "superior" is opinion. Again, you can use objective facts to back up your opinion, but it is still opinion.

There is nothing to debate because in my personal opinion Game Pass is better than any other subscription of its kind. But others could make the case that Humble Bundle is superior (subjective opinion) to Game Pass because Humble Bundle games are permanently added to your Steam library (objective fact). That's just as valid a thing to say as anything you've stated and it is no more an incorrect personal opinion than yours. Steam could make the case for having a better BC solution as a platform than any console. That too would be opinion. These are examples of opinions, I'm not posing them to debate your opinion that Game Pass or Xbox BC is better.
 
Last edited:

Aion002

Member
If you really were a PS gamer you'd be using PS Now for the same options. Yes, the games aren't brand new but there are over 800 of them.

OT: at this point MS just has GP as its bonus and why it's competitive. They haven't released a new IP yet and im not confident in them at this point. Playing Halo and Forza, they still feel rather basic but with money polish - i would love something ambitious by them and i'm looking at Starfield to bring that. I'd say 2021 was a weak year for both publishers in that regard so im looking forward to what both bring in the future

PS Now is not available in Brazil.


You Know Reaction GIF by MOODMAN


I guess Xbox cares more about brazilian gamers than Sony...
 
Last edited:

buenoblue

Member
I've bought every Xbox console day 1 (pretty much every console by Sony and Nintendo too in last 30 years). The only thing Microsoft has done for me this gen is made me not buy an Xbox! I paid about £10 and got over a year of gamepass on pc in 2020 (did the alien ware deal too).

On the same account last month they gave me 3 months for £1 and I've played halo, Forza horizon 5 and the accent, and I still have 2 months left.

All great games but they've lost the sale of an Xbox to me and I've barely spent any money to play their games. Something doesn't add up. Surly it's all gonna come crashing down?
 

FrankWza

Member
I'm evidence of how well Xbox has done as I completely skipped Xbox One but now have XSX.
That’s the guy that makes out like a bandit. If you had an RROD and/or bought a x1, you’re being repaid to try for some goodwill. It’s the gamer that just grabs an x and then gets gamepass for $1 for 3years that exploits their situation. Your gaming has been subsidized by x1 buyers. Bravo.
Or you could just play all the games on pc day 1 and probably still get the $1 deal.
 
Last edited:

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I'm evidence of how well Xbox has done as I completely skipped Xbox One but now have XSX. Great console. Between PS5 and XSX, I've become more of console gamer than PC gamer and I never thought that would happen.

Ditto.

PS1 > PS2 > 360 then PS3 a few years later > Completely avoided One or OnxX > PS4 Pro > SX.

That's my order from recent memory.





Under the tags

 
Last edited:

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Halo Infinite has GOAT shooting mechanics.

At launch its like any game with GAAS model. (Destiny 2, Halo 5, Gears 5 etc. These games have so much content now it's ridiculous. I can play them forever)

It has very, very sound fundamentals to build upon.

As for Forza, if it doesn't click with you, that's fine. It has perfected it's formula so deserves the mention.



More like loving it.
I've finished halo infinite on pc last week.
As I said - the gameplay with grappling hook and shooting are the best and only good parts of that game for me.
But I still wouldn't say its goat shooting mechanics or movement. You move extremely slow in this game. it makes grappling hook essential.
Shooting felt too stiff and you couldn't always see if the enemies get hit or not. The visual feedback (sparks, blood splatter etc) on some enemies is non existent. Feels like shooting a sponge.
Shooting always felt good in bungie/343 games but for me never exceptional.

I like shooters, so I feel fair to judge halo. I played and enjoyed all of the series except guardians and this is one of weaker entries.
As for forza - sure. I am not a racing guy. The game didn't click with me and I am probably not the right person to judge it. I like nfs games, burnout and even test drive unlimited back in the day... but Forza horizon games just got too much side stuff, talking, pondering and the sucking festival. anyway.

edit: I am disappointed. I can get a conversation with vaibhavpisal vaibhavpisal no problem but looking at my previous post, many lol reactions and triggers... People can't take someone else's opinion and counter it? Or explain why I am wrong?
I am entitled to my observation. It is what it is. but to see plenty of "lol you stupid" is just not healthy discussion
 
Last edited:
don't start that stupid argument. I'd rather have that option if it means controller features draining the battery faster. nothing more annoying then a controller dying in the middle of a multiplayer game
I passed on Elite 2 because it doesn't have AA, Elite 3 with AA is an instant buy for me.
 

Topher

Gold Member
That’s the guy that makes out like a bandit. If you had an RROD and/or bought a x1, you’re being repaid to try for some goodwill. It’s the gamer that just grabs an x and then gets gamepass for $1 for 3years that exploits their situation. Your gaming has been subsidized by x1 buyers. Bravo.
Or you could just play all the games on pc day 1 and probably still get the $1 deal.

You know the thing that keeps me coming back to console over PC though? Loading times. I fired up FH5 and Halo Infinite on PC and the difference is stark. Games on PS5.....same deal. And considering upgrading my PC isn't going to happen for a while, yeah.....these consoles are looking pretty damn good right now.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I guess its probably best at this point to extend "this year" to basically mean the last 13 months, as it seems a bit silly to silo off the new-gen console launch titles when they were realistically only available for the last few weeks of 2020, and even then good luck on getting hardware to play them on if you hadn't pre-ordered for launch. Meaning that for most players these 2020 launches were in practice "new in 2021".

If you look at things from that perspective I suspect you'll come out with a fairer assessment of where the big 3 stand against one-another.
 

Billbofet

Member
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

Halo and forza came out for the xbox one also and reviewed the same way. Why are both of those game changers all of a sudden?
Because they are both great representations of the new generation, are two of MS's biggest franchises, and they both debut day one on Gamepass. It shows, with great confidence, their direction and support for their service and value.
 
Top Bottom