prinz_valium
Member
Does that graph exists on a population base level?History of pandemics along with death tolls
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Good point.
5.4M deaths so far across 7.7 billion people = 0.07% of people in the world, or 1 out of every 1430 people.
And few other things. 1. It's skewed heavy to old people. 2. I have no idea how deaths are even classified. If someone is dying from cancer and dies and docs see his liver tumour has gotten bigger and he has covid in his blood, is it a cancer death, covid death, or combo death?
FunkMiller
Member
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Problem with antivax people is they are fighting for something everyone is really fighting for (freedom to get back to normal life).
The difference is vax supporters (I'm one of them who is vaxxed) wants freedom, no masks etc.... but I've done my part and ready to go back to normal life. So if everyone can do the same thing and get covid case counts lower, that's when cities seem to ease up on policies.
Antivaxxers want freedom, but dont want to vax. So their assumption is being antivax is no different than vax. People's natural resistance will beat covid, serious sickness and deaths drop without the need for Pfizer and Moderna shots and government will get policies back to normal if you wait it out long enough for everyone's T-cells to do their work.
SpiceRacz
Member
Pretty sure Desantis is vaccinated.
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
Not that I am aware of. One could look up world and relevant regional populations and just add them.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
COVID has disrupted Adolf Hitler's plans.
www.dailystar.co.uk
Adolf Hitler forced to work from home after Covid outbreak at his office
Namibian district administrator Adolf Hitler Uunona is named after the murderous Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, and has claimed in the past that it's too late to change it
www.dailystar.co.uk
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
COVID has disrupted Adolf Hitler's plans.
Adolf Hitler forced to work from home after Covid outbreak at his office
Namibian district administrator Adolf Hitler Uunona is named after the murderous Nazi leader Adolf Hitler, and has claimed in the past that it's too late to change it
Fucking hell, the article's even more ridiculous with the HUGE pictures (spot the difference?) on the webpage.
Although it does give you the opportunity to check and see if Mr Uunona is trying to grow a toothbrush moustache!
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Eotheod
Member
Isn’t the whole concept of why this hasn’t hurt the world “as” severely as past pandemics because of our medical promptness and technology capabilities? That doesn’t reduce the severity, but it seems to help boost conspiracy theorist views that COVID is nothing but a mangy cold that isn’t killing anyone and the governments are inserting robo chips into us. It’s definitely felt like a perfect storm for this world to go bat shit crazy with idiotic theories, some that are so debased of actual science it reads like a kindy student’s first project.
Literally the whole point of inoculation en masse is to prevent replication of a virus into something even more sinister. Why people refused to believe that was the whole point I guess is up to the individual country and their political/science-based beliefs, much like anything casted out to the general public. Like I said, I’m just glad I live in one of the lucky countries that acted quickly and is now able to process Omicron as the potential strain that we can deal with indefinitely. Sure Australia is getting hit hard in our health systems, but we have a far higher vaccine rate than many other countries. Plus we kick shits like Novak to the curb for trying to play the system.
Literally the whole point of inoculation en masse is to prevent replication of a virus into something even more sinister. Why people refused to believe that was the whole point I guess is up to the individual country and their political/science-based beliefs, much like anything casted out to the general public. Like I said, I’m just glad I live in one of the lucky countries that acted quickly and is now able to process Omicron as the potential strain that we can deal with indefinitely. Sure Australia is getting hit hard in our health systems, but we have a far higher vaccine rate than many other countries. Plus we kick shits like Novak to the curb for trying to play the system.
Kilau
Member
He is but no booster yet. His wife is undergoing breast cancer treatment so you would hope he is taking proper precautions.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Anyone who still mentions this view unironically can now be immediately dismissed as a fucking moron or a straight up troll at this point. There is no reason to even waste even a few seconds on them. Much like their opinion they do not matter and might as well not even exist.
It is better to spend time on real people and real problems when it comes to Covid by now. Don't even waste your time.
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TheFarter
Banned
Naw. Sorry bruh. Reality is that those people have to take precautions. I suppose everyone needs to have a flu shot as well right?
I love the anti vax term thrown around these days. I'm not anti vax at all. I have all the stuff I need. So do my kids. I just don't need a covid shot. Don't want it, don't need it. My body can beat it at this time. And has. Twice.
TheFarter
Banned
I love that people want to dunk on this, but they didn't want to when Newsom went missing. (not saying you're doing this, but it's funny.)
DeaDPo0L84
Member
Karma for what? Cause I am aware of what you are implying but that makes me think you don't understand the definition of karma. Also your comment is honestly gross, he's vaccinated and his wife is currently undergoing cancer treatment that he InExPliCaBlY went missing for, like who the fuck are you? Fuck off. I swear the soapbox people have put themselves on when it comes to this fucking virus is unreal.
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nikolino840
Member
I was looking for a guy named alfred russel wallace on wiki for something else and i have discovered a 19th cent. no vax
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Russel_WallaceAnti-vaccination campaignEdit
In the early 1880s, Wallace was drawn into the debate over mandatory smallpox vaccination. Wallace originally saw the issue as a matter of personal liberty; but, after studying some of the statistics provided by anti-vaccination activists, he began to question the efficacy of vaccination.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
With news stories coming out now about how experts and studies are showing the cloth masks don't work great, and if you want real protection you need N or KN95's, combined with politicians now coming out who were super COVID lockdown people now saying we need to get our kids back in schools and take some risks in the process, it had me thinking.
I believe there were always going to be COVID conspiracy theorists, and people who were anti-vax and mandates for ideological or political reasons. And tons of factions who were against those for other varying reasons. But I think the above is where the middle was lost. Masking kids in schools. If kids were allowed to continue to go to school and schools didn't force masks on kids, I think we'd have a substantially higher people vaccinated right now and supporter of mandates. That one thing right there scared I believe a lot of people in "the middle" off.
When your typical house mom or dad who doesn't have any real political lean sees videos spread on social media and sees a video on their Facebook feed of a school forcing a cloth mask onto a 4 year old's face that doesn't even fit him while he's crying for them to stop, that made parents feel some kind of way and drove them away. Now we find out what those parents knew already and it was totally pointless and meaningless.
This was a major MAJOR misstep by our leadership IMO. And I think it cost the discourse around these things dearly.
I believe there were always going to be COVID conspiracy theorists, and people who were anti-vax and mandates for ideological or political reasons. And tons of factions who were against those for other varying reasons. But I think the above is where the middle was lost. Masking kids in schools. If kids were allowed to continue to go to school and schools didn't force masks on kids, I think we'd have a substantially higher people vaccinated right now and supporter of mandates. That one thing right there scared I believe a lot of people in "the middle" off.
When your typical house mom or dad who doesn't have any real political lean sees videos spread on social media and sees a video on their Facebook feed of a school forcing a cloth mask onto a 4 year old's face that doesn't even fit him while he's crying for them to stop, that made parents feel some kind of way and drove them away. Now we find out what those parents knew already and it was totally pointless and meaningless.
This was a major MAJOR misstep by our leadership IMO. And I think it cost the discourse around these things dearly.
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Lady Redfield
Member
We can’t get tests here, they no longer offer them except to the vulnerable. All we can do is assume. I barely ever get sick in general and it was an odd, out of nowhere couple of symptoms. Not saying it definitely was, just thinking perhaps it might have been.
If people can find a rapid test and buy one, we can, but, we are not required to test, we are to stay home from work for 5 days and in the 24 hours before returning up with, we must have no symptoms.
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Sorry perhaps is not good enough, I thought multiple times I had it for sure, all the signs, coughing for weeks , pain near the longs at the back, but numerous self tests and PCr tests came back negative .
Most of the times if you lose smell and taste you have COVID for sure .
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Chittagong
Gold Member
I am starting to get a feel of the chaos Omicron isolations create. Everyone in Helsinki is getting omicron. We are trying to escape back home to French Polynesia.
We test negative. First aircraft has a technical fault. Second aircraft has a technical fault. Third aircraft is flown in from USA. Crew needs to rest 12h. When we are about to leave, second crew in Japan tests positive for Covid and flight is rerouted to USA. But US ESTA has crashed and departure is denied and postponed to morning.
In the morning we need to take yet another test since the first one has expired. We test negative again. The crew tests now positive and goes to isolation. Our flight is delayed until tomorrow, as a new crew is flown in and the cycle starts anew…
This pattern will repeat across society on all walks of life.
We test negative. First aircraft has a technical fault. Second aircraft has a technical fault. Third aircraft is flown in from USA. Crew needs to rest 12h. When we are about to leave, second crew in Japan tests positive for Covid and flight is rerouted to USA. But US ESTA has crashed and departure is denied and postponed to morning.
In the morning we need to take yet another test since the first one has expired. We test negative again. The crew tests now positive and goes to isolation. Our flight is delayed until tomorrow, as a new crew is flown in and the cycle starts anew…
This pattern will repeat across society on all walks of life.
Like I said.. (weeks ago) but I am accepting that most around me are moronic! (Not directly pointed at you , but officials) how do you like these service disruptions from Cron, but everything is at least open , that’s what you wanted, stop nagging , ! Good luck and enjoy!
Good thing the Dutch government looked past how long their noses are .. otherwise they would be as short sighted.
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FunkMiller
Member
All about you, huh? As long as you’ve got everything you need, it’s all fine. To hell with everybody else, other than you… and the kids you’re raising with the same god awful, selfish morals as you. Delighted to put you on ignore now.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Did the autotest - negative. Back to normal except sneezing nose.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Oh come on man, stop and examine how you're reacting.
All things considered, does it really warrant moral condemnation for somebody to assert a basic human right like that of bodily autonomy?
Because, whether the reasons are selfish or not, its not a scenario like somebody jumping a place in a lifeboat as the ship is sinking.
Its not direct correlative like that.
Honestly, the vehemence directed at people who don't fall into lockstep with the protocols is starting to scare me more than the disease itself.
Not being vaccinated does not make a person a menace to public health or society - especially with Omicron.
Just stop and think for a second: While we're being encouraged to tear into our fellow citizens over this, these same powers consented to patents being filed on the self-same vaccines and in so doing ensured that billions in the developing world will be denied access due to economic factors. Think of the where previous strains have evolved, and the potential consequences of that for humanity as a species.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Till that one time you will end up in the ICU and as - all the other idiots - beg the doctors to give you a shot just before they put you on life support. Solid choice champ.
Cyberpunkd
Member
But nobody is removing bodily autonomy from anyone - it's just in the middle of global pandemic and proven way to reduce the number of hospitalization if you do not want to do it you can - except till this is over you will sit your ass at home.
In France they put it in very simple terms following Macron's words - getting vaxxed is your civic duty as a citizen and a member of the society, since you have 20 times less chance to end up in hospital than someone that didn't take the vaccine. By not vaccinating you are putting not only yourself at risk, you are putting others since due to Covid hospital strain all the cancer patients, and others requiring hospital care are unable to obtain it.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
There is a global campaign going on to encourage vaccination uptake, and part of it (either by design or accident) is instilling fear and loathing of the un-vaccinated.
This is really dangerous because its based in emotion not rationality, and when you get huge swathes of populations acting on such negative emotions bad things historically have followed.
The moral virtuousness of "civic duty" really depends on the society and who's setting the social norms. Has it not occurred to you that the argument you just made can be reduced down to simply saying that those who potentially might consume more resources are "stealing" from the rest of society?
What does that sound like to you?
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Once again - I will use the words of French Prime Minister: 'President Macron said up high what a lot of people think down below'. It was cute to do 'pedagogy' at the beginning: it's obvious, the vaccines are new, people are just looking for answers, 'educating themselves', having doubts, etc. 12 months later, BILLIONS of doses administered - same people are still 'educating themselves', still 'looking at different sources of information'.
No, they are not. If in 12 months they didn't make up their mind on getting a shot they will not - there doesn't exist a single piece of evidence that will make them go: 'Ok, now I agree to take a shot'. On the contrary, interviews with people getting the first shot now show that it is the ever-growing list of restrictions that pushed them to take the shot, not the info campaign:
- I do not want to do tests all the time
- I want to go to cinema and restaurants
- I want to go on holiday
So obviously initiatives like changing sanitary pass to vaccine pass are working. Pedagogy is not.
Of course they are not stealing - healthcare is an easy example, since no matter where it is the oldest that consume the most resources. But that's ok - A. They paid their healthcare fees when they were working that supported the elderly back then which leads to B. It's a generational contract, I will take care of you when you are old and sick, when I'm old and sick the younger ones will take care of me.
Probably if you live in the US this sort of thinking seems crazy, but hey - EU baby.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I live in the UK, am fully vaccinated, and all I'm saying is that I feel that we're on a very dark path here.
It always begins with people rationalizing as to why the end justifies the means. The problem being that "end" is hypothetical but the "means" is concrete reality, and as such flaws in the process tend to compound, expand and ultimately take on a life of their own.
FunkMiller
Member
The stupidity of anti-vaxxers on social media summed up in one eloquent tweet.
The fact people think they know better about the efficacy and worth of vaccination more than guys like this fella is quite something.
The fact people think they know better about the efficacy and worth of vaccination more than guys like this fella is quite something.
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FunkMiller
Member
Genuinely interested to know what dark path you think we’re on being hard on anti-vaxxers.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The way I see it we have a choice between a harmonious, cooperative, and tolerant society with Covid, and a fractured, fearful and intolerant society with Covid.
I prefer the former.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Can't find it now, but Atlantic had a great article shortly after Trump won explaining what happened (also I think 'Don't Look Up' on Netflix hints at the same thing): people think everything is a matter of opinion and they are entitled to any opinion they might have.
Guy 1: Vaccination clearly decreases the risk of going to hospital. There are also very few side effects given the amount of doses administered.
Guy 2: That's just your opinion man.
Guy 1: No, it's not, there's the data showing that.
Guy 2: Hey man, don't be pushy, ok? You have a right to have your opinion and your data, I have a right to mine. Not getting vaxxed.
FunkMiller
Member
A harmonious, cooperative and tolerant society is one where everyone gets vaccinated against a respiratory virus that can leave most people perfectly okay, but a few seriously ill or dead. Getting vaccinated is cooperative. Getting vaccinated is harmonious. The anti-vaxxers are the ones causing fracturing, fear and intolerance. The fact you can't see that is baffling to me.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Which part of the society you think does no cooperate?
BadBurger
Is 'That Pure Potato'
That's one way to look at things. It's a selfish and fatalist view that is needlessly cruel in my opinion, but sure, it's a position. Personally, I prefer to show compassion and hold up my end of the social contract whenever possible. It costs me nothing save extremely minor, trivial inconveniences, while it can mean a world of good for a stranger who's fate is always out of their hands due to circumstances they cannot help.
But you do you. I hope you're proud of yourself, bruh.
QSD
Member
the fact that you can't see what kind of dark path might follow from marginalizing, cajoling and insulting a significant % of the population is equally baffling man
FunkMiller
Member
QSD
Member
I rest my case, funk bro
FunkMiller
Member
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
You're not going to change hearts and minds by trying to bully people into submission. Persuasion is better than coercion.
Stop thinking about this in terms of absolutes. The more people vaccinated the better, but the existence of a minority who do not comply either for reasons of choice or medical necessity is an inevitability. Make peace with that idea as a necessary compromise in order to maintain a free and open democracy.
FunkMiller
Member
Nope. They're selfish twats. And I'm not trying to bully them into submission... I know that'll never work
But I will continue to point out that they're selfish twats!Good grief. This is really starting to sound extremely snowflakey.
If you don't want to get lambasted for being a dickhead, don't be a dickhead. If you make a conscious decision to do something, or act a certain way, be prepared for the consequences of your actions. That's what part of being a free and open democracy is... being held accountable for what you do, and accepting that others in that free and open democracy can call you a selfish twat for not taking a safe and effective vaccine that helps keep other, less fortunate people than yourself safer.
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Lady Redfield
Member
Taste and smell loss are from the previous strains, it’s very rare with omicron to have those happen.
T8SC
Member
Why is this discussion still going on? I don't mean the "news" or "updates to the pandemic" ... I mean the ongoing simmering discussions which involves the same few people, on both sides, arguing and getting nowhere.
Lets be clear here, there's the few people raging (usually) and calling people anti-vaxxers (or other insulting names, as evidenced above) -
FunkMiller
,
funkygunther
and some others, sorry if I forgot your usernames, I can always remember the funk bros.
Then there's those on the opposite side of the discussion who feel general health is as important as a quick fix vaccine and forcing people out of jobs due to no jabs is wrong etc, such as
Clear
&
Malakhov
plus others who, again, I forget the usernames of (or just cant be bothered tagging everyone ...)
Neither side is going to convince the others. Both sides have their reasons for their stance. Why does this discussion continue to repeat itself every, single, day?
Seriously, go look in other topics, stop being so addicted to Covid, move on, do other things, live your lives.
Lets be clear here, there's the few people raging (usually) and calling people anti-vaxxers (or other insulting names, as evidenced above) -
FunkMiller
,
funkygunther
and some others, sorry if I forgot your usernames, I can always remember the funk bros. Then there's those on the opposite side of the discussion who feel general health is as important as a quick fix vaccine and forcing people out of jobs due to no jabs is wrong etc, such as
Clear
&
Malakhov
plus others who, again, I forget the usernames of (or just cant be bothered tagging everyone ...)Neither side is going to convince the others. Both sides have their reasons for their stance. Why does this discussion continue to repeat itself every, single, day?
Seriously, go look in other topics, stop being so addicted to Covid, move on, do other things, live your lives.
FunkMiller
Member
Why is this discussion still going on? I don't mean the "news" or "updates to the pandemic" ... I mean the ongoing simmering discussions which involves the same few people, on both sides, arguing and getting nowhere.
Lets be clear here, there's the few people raging (usually) and calling people anti-vaxxers (or other insulting names, as evidenced above) -
Then there's those on the opposite side of the discussion who feel general health is as important as a quick fix vaccine and forcing people out of jobs due to no jabs is wrong etc, such as
Neither side is going to convince the others. Both sides have their reasons for their stance. Why does this discussion continue to repeat itself every, single, day?
Seriously, go look in other topics, stop being so addicted to Covid, move on, do other things, live your lives.
Mate... I’m just on here to entertain myself between fucking dull as shit Zoom meetings and phone calls
as soon as they tell me WFH is over, I’ll be gone!…and that’s Super Funk Bros, thanks very much. This is a gaming forum.
QSD
Member
eat some mushrooms and come back to post, I'll gladly call you super funk broMate... I’m just on here to entertain myself between fucking dull as shit Zoom meetings and phone calls
…and that’s Super Funk Bros, thanks very much. This is a gaming forum.
it will also be more entertaining!
T8SC
Member
Mate... I’m just on here to entertain myself between fucking dull as shit Zoom meetings and phone calls
…and that’s Super Funk Bros, thanks very much. This is a gaming forum.
Nah, you're still very much in the original non-super game.
No Tanooki suit for you. 
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Why is this discussion still going on? I don't mean the "news" or "updates to the pandemic" ... I mean the ongoing simmering discussions which involves the same few people, on both sides, arguing and getting nowhere.
Lets be clear here, there's the few people raging (usually) and calling people anti-vaxxers (or other insulting names, as evidenced above) -
Then there's those on the opposite side of the discussion who feel general health is as important as a quick fix vaccine and forcing people out of jobs due to no jabs is wrong etc, such as
Neither side is going to convince the others. Both sides have their reasons for their stance. Why does this discussion continue to repeat itself every, single, day?
Seriously, go look in other topics, stop being so addicted to Covid, move on, do other things, live your lives.
I take your point, but with respect I'd offer to you my opinion that this is a very important subject that is worthy of being hashed out publicly.
What's more its an evolving situation. Each day brings greater clarity in terms of understanding the epidemiology and pathogenicity of Covid, all the while the social/political pressure seems to me to be continually ratcheted up. Its why my focus has increasingly shifted towards the larger social and political ramifications of policy decisions, rather than strictly the medicene/virology itself.
Yesterday I read that I guy I worked with (semi famous here and in the games industry generally) 20 years ago had died at the age of 51 as a result of Covid. And of course both here and Resetera constantly bubbling up was the question was he vaccinated*, and the implication that if he wasn't he somehow deserved what happened to him.
That's fucking monstrous. Especially when there's a personal connection.
And you see this sort of thing online constantly, people gleefully taking validation when some notable "anti-vaxxer" dies.
This is why I'm harping on about society going on a "dark path". This is a demonstrably real phenomenon that we all should be aware of.
*Sidenote: Big ups to the mods here for squashing that real fast. Wish the same could be said for elsewhere.
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T8SC
Member
I agree but, on a forum such as this (gaming), this is just going to go around in circles and probably isn't going to achieve the results?(?) either side wants or expects.
Edit: I've been actively involved in this topic for months but it just feels like deja vu & treading water.
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