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[THE DUCK]

This always makes me laugh. Easily >90% of my time on Switch is docked, maybe >95%. It’s almost always for in person multiplayer gaming, or with my 3 year old cuddled up to me “helping” me play Mario. Only a tiny fraction of the time am I playing it as a portable. I can’t imagine this is terribly uncommon.

You can laugh if you want, I believe some polls indicated at least 50% used the switch primarily as a portable, others half and half. And you can bet that hybrid feature is of the reasons they decided to buy, if it had been tv only = less sales. So no, it's absolutely not right to consider the switch a regular home console.

 

[Marvel14]

Usual suspects with their Negative spin Nintendo Switch bingo cards, please feel free to cross any of the following off.

It's a handheld console
Failed because it has not outsold the Wii/DS
I don't get it myself
It's not going to outsell the PS2 (or at least I hope it won't)
It has only sold well because of the global pandemic
Sales are about to fall of a cliff
The Switch is doomed now the Steam deck is out
It's finished now the PS5 and Series X are out
Well it would have been if you could actually buy a PS5 or Series X
There was still stock available at launch in my local area
People will not put up with the sub par graphics forever
Has no games
Great handheld for Wii U ports
The graphical gap will only increase as the generation continues
Needs a price cut
Dead if Nintendo do not release a pro version soon
The mass market will buy anything


Pretty sure that's most of it covered, but any additions would be most welcome.

See my earlier post. Anyone good with jpegs who could create an actual bingo card with all these points? That would be golden. Then we can actually play bingo when the next sales milestone happens.

 

[Marvel14]

You can laugh if you want, I believe some polls indicated at least 50% used the switch primarily as a portable, others half and half. And you can bet that hybrid feature is of the reasons they decided to buy, if it had been tv only = less sales. So no, it's absolutely not right to consider the switch a regular home console.

You guys are soo precious! Everyone just has to know you still think its just not a home console don't they?
You tell'em!

Good for you!

 

[Kabelly]

I personally haven't taken my Switch out of my dock in months either. In summer I will play on my balcony because hey why not. But in general games like Splatoon are docked games for me.

I'm still on a 1080p Sony Bravia set and the switch looks good enough for me. I also own a PS4. Switch is HD enough for most people I imagine.

 

[THE DUCK]

You guys are soo precious! Everyone just has to know you still think its just a handheld don't they?
You tell'em!

Good for you!

Your inability to read is astounding, not once did I say it's just a handheld, but ok. But neither is it just a "home console". It's ok, try reading it again.

 

[Marvel14]

Your inability to read is astounding, not once did I say it's just a handheld, but ok. But neither is it just a "home console". It's ok, try reading it again.

There there I Edited it just for you.

Because of course "not a home console" is a million miles from "it's, it's a handheld"

 

[MrA]

That's a dumb argument, it doesn't make sense to discount performance. PS4/PS5 and so on are consoles, they have the form factor, performance and power consumption expected of consoles. They have games developed for them with around the same level of performance as a current mid range PC.

A home console is also not a PC, it doesn't have the OS to do what you can on a PC (I'm actually coding at the moment, just taking a quick break to reply here), such as running arbitrary applications that are designed to run on the windows x86-64 platform, and perform tasks such as spread sheet editing, coding, video editing and so on. You can game on PCs but they have a lot more uses than just gaming, so your comparison is also not correct on that front.

A feature that the Switch is missing? Performance to run home console games. It has the performance of a cheap handheld because it's designed as a cheap handheld with a cheap SoC, cheap plastic body and a cheap screen. The switch is very much a tablet SoC with detachable controllers bolted on and an HDMI output, that's why the twingo with a winch comparison works. The switch simply doesn't do what a home console should do, it looks like shit on a big screen because the performance just isn't there, and doesn't even have the performance to get ports of slightly demanding home console games because it simply doesn't have the performance to run them. It's a handheld and it's meant to be a handheld.

Is a cellphone on a dock a home console?

So you don't have an answer, so you have no argument, neat

 

[Marvel14]

That's a dumb argument, it doesn't make sense to discount performance. PS4/PS5 and so on are consoles, they have the form factor, performance and power consumption expected of consoles. They have games developed for them with around the same level of performance as a current mid range PC.

A home console is also not a PC, it doesn't have the OS to do what you can on a PC (I'm actually coding at the moment, just taking a quick break to reply here), such as running arbitrary applications that are designed to run on the windows x86-64 platform, and perform tasks such as spread sheet editing, coding, video editing and so on. You can game on PCs but they have a lot more uses than just gaming, so your comparison is also not correct on that front.

A feature that the Switch is missing? Performance to run home console games. It has the performance of a cheap handheld because it's designed as a cheap handheld with a cheap SoC, cheap plastic body and a cheap screen. The switch is very much a tablet SoC with detachable controllers bolted on and an HDMI output, that's why the twingo with a winch comparison works. The switch simply doesn't do what a home console should do, it looks like shit on a big screen because the performance just isn't there, and doesn't even have the performance to get ports of slightly demanding home console games because it simply doesn't have the performance to run them. It's a handheld and it's meant to be a handheld.

Is a cellphone on a dock a home console?

Go Azurro go! Slay them mate slay them!

P.S. for everyone else: that thing Azurro's holding is not a guitar...it's just a flame thrower.

 

[Azurro]

So you don't have an answer, so you have no argument, neat

I don't know, I was giving you a real answer. I really would like to know why you don't think performance is not a good way to discretise a market. There are multiple ways of doing it of course, but it's very commonly used in multiple markets from construction, automobiles, and so on. Technology and especially gaming has been using it for a long, long time.

I have a feeling it's mostly an emotional reason rather than a reasoned one.

Go Azurro go! Slay them mate slay them!

P.S. for everyone else: that thing Azurro's holding is not a guitar...it's just a flame thrower.

You are the ones that dragged me into this silly debate, but insults are always better than an articulated answer, right?

I'm happy to continue talking about this, I enjoy a good discussion and would like to hear a good argument as to why computational performance, cost and power consumption aren't a good way to create market segments in terms of consoles.

According to some of you the NES, SNES, PlayStation 1-4, Xbox, Xbox 360, MegaDrive and Dreamcast weren't consoles because their performance is, and I quote, 'shit'.

I love how you guys keep making shit up to invalid the Switch sales. Keep going, most entertaining thread in years.

I'm pretty sure that's a bad comparison, the consoles you listed were not limited in terms of performance compared to what was available on the market at the time. The NES was a generation ahead of the Atari 7200(? I always forget the Atari numbers), the SNES and Genesis were a generation ahead technologically from what came before and had comparable technology, PS2 and Dreamcast the same and so on.

The performance of the Switch is so low it prevents it from getting multiplatform releases, which only makes sense if it's seen as the next generation of the 3DS and hence not expected to have those games.

 

[Chastten]

I'm pretty sure that's a bad comparison, the consoles you listed were not limited in terms of performance compared to what was available on the market at the time. The NES was a generation ahead of the Atari 7200(? I always forget the Atari numbers), the SNES and Genesis were a generation ahead technologically from what came before and had comparable technology, PS2 and Dreamcast the same and so on.

The performance of the Switch is so low it prevents it from getting multiplatform releases, which only makes sense if it's seen as the next generation of the 3DS and hence not expected to have those games.

Plenty of games that ran perfectly fine on MegaDrive, ran like crap on SNES. And vice versa. Is one or the other not a console than? Or are they both no console? How do you measure that stuff? CPU? GPU? Loading times? What's the cutoff point to calling something a console?

Dreamcast, and to a lesser extent the PS2, were in no way in the same league as the GameCube and the Xbox were. The difference in that generation was just as big as it is now. Does that mean the DC and PS2 weren't consoles?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Yeah.

It's a portable console as you state.

Also one that you can play on a TV in your home like an xbox and playstation - thus it's a home console too.

It is what makes it great and why it deserves its sales numbers because it's great in both form factors.

It uses a built in screen,mobile chips and has a model that can only be played on the go.

MS and Sony don't sell versions of the XSX and the PS5 that use a built in screen,mobile chips and can only be played on the go.

 

[Marvel14]

It uses a built in screen,mobile chips and has a model that can only be played on the go.

MS and Sony don't sell versions of the XSX and the PS5 that use a built in screen,mobile chips and can only be played on the go.

Agreed. Switch-lite numbers are poor compared to PS and Xbox.

Judged by Switch-lite alone Switch is a failure on a par with Gamecube

 

[Marvel14]

Plenty of games that ran perfectly fine on MegaDrive, ran like crap on SNES. And vice versa. Is one or the other not a console than? Or are they both no console? How do you measure that stuff? CPU? GPU? Loading times? What's the cutoff point to calling something a console?

Dreamcast, and to a lesser extent the PS2, were in no way in the same league as the GameCube and the Xbox were. The difference in that generation was just as big as it is now. Does that mean the DC and PS2 weren't consoles?

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

are you guys still going on about this?
do you seriously think any customer goes "well ACtUalLy its a portable with a TV out, not a console" ... like who the fuck cares about this shit? it's a gaming device. it plays games and it does so very well. it can do it portable or on the TV.
that's all that matters.

 

[Elysion]

I agree with what several others have said, that a large part of the success of the Switch comes from the fact that there is no other product like it on the market. Of course, it certainly helps that it has a library of high-quality exclusive games that people want to play, but that alone is not enough – otherwise the Wii U wouldn’t have been such a flop. Since Nintendo hardware generally lacks a lot of 3rd party games, they need a ‚hook‘ to make up for it (some would call it ‚gimmick‘). The Wii had an incredible hook (motion controls), as did the DS (touch + dual screens), and of course the Switch (hybrid). The Gamecube on the other hand had no hook to differentiate itself, and the Wii U‘s hook just wasn’t interesting enough.

Make no mistake, if the Switch wasn’t a hybrid, but either just a normal home console, or just a handheld, it would not have been as much of a success as it is today. As a normal console it would’ve probably been another flop, while as a normal handheld it would’ve probably sold similar to the 3DS (which would‘ve still been pretty decent overall). And Nintendo is quite aware of that; they‘ve repeatedly made it very clear that to succeed they have to offer people experiences that they can‘t get anywhere else.

 

[Marvel14]

are you guys still going on about this?
do you seriously think any customer goes "well ACtUalLy its a portable with a TV out, not a console" ... like who the fuck cares about this shit? it's a gaming device. it plays games and it does so very well. it can do it portable or on the TV.
that's all that matters.

Well at least I am finding them entertaining....

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

are you guys still going on about this?
do you seriously think any customer goes "well ACtUalLy its a portable with a TV out, not a console" ... like who the fuck cares about this shit? it's a gaming device. it plays games and it does so very well. it can do it portable or on the TV.
that's all that matters.

Going by that we should include Apple and Android devices as they do all of the above and more than the Switch.

None of the above should be compared to the current gen home consoles.

 

[Azurro]

Plenty of games that ran perfectly fine on MegaDrive, ran like crap on SNES. And vice versa. Is one or the other not a console than? Or are they both no console? How do you measure that stuff? CPU? GPU? Loading times? What's the cutoff point to calling something a console?

Dreamcast, and to a lesser extent the PS2, were in no way in the same league as the GameCube and the Xbox were. The difference in that generation was just as big as it is now. Does that mean the DC and PS2 weren't consoles?

You have to elaborate, because your argument is pretty bad so far. SNES could display more colors and I believe larger pixels, however the CPU was slower than the Megadrive's. Regardless, multiplatform games looked from the same generation technologically speaking. As for your second comment, the Dreamcast in 1998, the PS2 in 2000 and Xbox in 2001 were very much cutting edge technology compared to their peers at the time of their release, GCN less so but it was a very efficient and well designed hw.

Switch is also a step forward compared to the 3DS, but it's a huge step backward if you want to compare it to an Xbox One. The difference in performance is vast, and it's not a fair comparison because you are trying to compare a mobile SoC, with low power ram, tablet bandwidth and only 4 low power cpu cores that's meant to be taken with you against a SoC designed for a console at higher power consumptions. It doesn't work, they are vastly different designs with different goals in mind, Nintendo was never thinking about competing in the same console space, that's their entire philosophy.

 

[gradient]

Jesus... someone resurrected the old "it's not as powerful so it's not the same and doesn't count as a console"

Thought that one died with the Wii/360/PS3 gen

Edit: seeing as we're back to the old wii era "it's not as powerful, so it's not the same thing or market"...

Behold the April 2008 NPD thread of all the same excuses, goalpost shifting and denial.

 

[Dr Bass]

Your inability to read is astounding, not once did I say it's just a handheld, but ok. But neither is it just a "home console". It's ok, try reading it again.

I don't mean this in a mean way, but I find it ironic you're blasting a guys "inability to read" when making your argument about the nature of the console, when the fact the device is ALSO a home console is right in the name of the device.

It's literally called ... the "Switch."

 

[THE DUCK]

I don't mean this in a mean way, but I find it ironic you're blasting a guys "inability to read" when making your argument about the nature of the console, when the fact the device is ALSO a home console is right in the name of the device.

It's literally called ... the "Switch."

Again, never said it can't operate as a home console.......just that many, many of its its purchases are based primarily on the fact that it's portable.

 

[Mozza]

.

That's a dumb argument, it doesn't make sense to discount performance. PS4/PS5 and so on are consoles, they have the form factor, performance and power consumption expected of consoles. They have games developed for them with around the same level of performance as a current mid range PC.

A home console is also not a PC, it doesn't have the OS to do what you can on a PC (I'm actually coding at the moment, just taking a quick break to reply here), such as running arbitrary applications that are designed to run on the windows x86-64 platform, and perform tasks such as spread sheet editing, coding, video editing and so on. You can game on PCs but they have a lot more uses than just gaming, so your comparison is also not correct on that front.

A feature that the Switch is missing? Performance to run home console games. It has the performance of a cheap handheld because it's designed as a cheap handheld with a cheap SoC, cheap plastic body and a cheap screen. The switch is very much a tablet SoC with detachable controllers bolted on and an HDMI output, that's why the twingo with a winch comparison works. The switch simply doesn't do what a home console should do, it looks like shit on a big screen because the performance just isn't there, and doesn't even have the performance to get ports of slightly demanding home console games because it simply doesn't have the performance to run them. It's a handheld and it's meant to be a handheld.

Is a cellphone on a dock a home console?

The console is called the Switch, because of it's ability to switch between T.V play and handheld, the power of the unit does not enter into it's overall definition, as high or low powered it's still a hybrid console.

 

[Mozza]

Again, never said it can't operate as a home console.......just that many, many of its its purchases are based primarily on the fact that it's portable.

Based on what sort of research, we just do not know either way.

 

[devilNprada]

Based on what sort of research, we just do not know either way.

Would someone really need to go out and take a formal poll on this?

Or would the fact that no-one I know connects their Switch to a TV; be enough to satisfy that "at least some people prefer it because it is portable"?

 

[Woopah]

I think your missing the point that they are two distinct and separate areas. The DS was not competing with anything really, nor was the 3DS. The wii wasn't either, it was fun novelty that went viral. Once you hit a true home console in the wii U, we see how that went, being massively underpowered and really offering nothing but just Nintendo exclusives. No usable gimic, and only a hardware disadvantage, and it was very clear that Nintendo Software alone would not drive sales. I.

The DS competed with the PSP, the 3DS with the Vita, the Wii with the PS3 and 360, and the Wii U with the PS4 and Xbox One. Both Wii and Wii U are home consoles ( or "true" home consoles if you prefer that term)

My point on the wii games was that it was the gimmick that was driving the massive hardware sales, not the nintendo AAA. The fact that those garbage games even existed is fuel to that. (I know every system has some, but that was extraordinary considering these were actual retail releases and not e-games.)

I think you overestimate the size of the Nintendo faithful. There is a group of say 10-15 million gamers who love nintendo games that will buy whatever they put out. Then there is the general public, they go by trend, price, brand name. MS or Sony would sway these people by the millions.

Gimmicks on their own don't do anything, not unless they have appealing software to push it. Wii was primarily pushed by Nintendo software, some of which used the motion controls extensively (like Wii Sports and Wii Party) and some of which did not (Super Smash Bros Brawl). Systems get thousands of games, some of which are garbage. A garbage game existing, or even 100s of garbage games existing, does not mean those games pushed hardware.

To go back to the original point, the success of Switch, Wii, DS, PS4, PS2 and other successful systems are driven by the appealing software available on those platforms. Hardware factors can also help drive sales, but they are not important as the games themselves.

But I did say that. They had to consolidate to survive. If they didn’t those numbers wouldn’t have gone back up.

And what was the second highest year? Oh yeah a Wii and DS year.

So you’re using literally a point that uses the same goal post and tell me not to do it too.

In the end it’s still way less PLAYERS. You cannot tell me the same number of people are using Nintendo machines than the Wii and DS days. That’s the metric for me. Players. People. Not money.

Yes they did it. By axing half their business and charging console game prices for games developed on the same budget as a 3DS game which would be $39.99 or less.

So yes it will make them more money especially when you have tons of ports and content already. Along with overcharging for games you would pay less for in the past.

To help me clarify you position, lets look at Sony as a different example.

To you, the fact that Sony's gaming division just had their 2nd best ever quarter is irrelevant as it is money not people. Instead you judge Sony on their ability to reach the same number of players they had in the PS2/PSP days. So the sales of PS4 are not impressive, sales of PS5 are not impressive, and you will only be impressed when they have a machine which sells 235 million units.

Is that accurate?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

So earned.

The switch is the little console that could. A smashing success, great games and it resurrected Nintendo after the Wii U fiasco.

 

[Robb]

formal poll on this

I remember Nintendo providing figures on usage a while back;

Unsurprisingly a mix of both is how the majority uses the system.

 

[Chastten]

You have to elaborate, because your argument is pretty bad so far. SNES could display more colors and I believe larger pixels, however the CPU was slower than the Megadrive's. Regardless, multiplatform games looked from the same generation technologically speaking. As for your second comment, the Dreamcast in 1998, the PS2 in 2000 and Xbox in 2001 were very much cutting edge technology compared to their peers at the time of their release, GCN less so but it was a very efficient and well designed hw.

Switch is also a step forward compared to the 3DS, but it's a huge step backward if you want to compare it to an Xbox One. The difference in performance is vast, and it's not a fair comparison because you are trying to compare a mobile SoC, with low power ram, tablet bandwidth and only 4 low power cpu cores that's meant to be taken with you against a SoC designed for a console at higher power consumptions. It doesn't work, they are vastly different designs with different goals in mind, Nintendo was never thinking about competing in the same console space, that's their entire philosophy.

Nintendo might not compete in the exact same console space, but that doesnt mean the Switch is not a console. Is a €100 smartphone not a smartphone because it doesn't compete with a €1000 iPhone? Because that's what you guys are saying.

A Ford might not compete with a Ferrari, but that doesn't mean they're not both cars.

Also, saying stupid stuff like 'It needs to have components comparable to midrange PC's to be considered a console' is beyond crazy, cause that would mean the PS4 and Xbone werent consoles either. Both had trash CPU's and slow harddrive making them infinitely inferior to my midrange PC at the time.

 

[Mozza]

Would someone really need to go out and take a formal poll on this?

Or would the fact that no-one I know connects their Switch to a TV; be enough to satisfy that "at least some people prefer it because it is portable"?

So myself and everybody I know play mainly docked, does that now make me correct and you mistaken, of course not, but as I said in the absence of any real data on the subject it just down to personal opinions.

 

[Walter Matthau]

Nintendo's competitors' sales analysts: Should we be concerned that the Switch is literally taking away billions of dollars that could be going towards our products?

Nintendo's competitors' management: It's a handheld.

Nintendo's competitors' sales analysts: Not really sure what that means. Are you implying that consoles with portability features have some advantage? If so, shouldn't we also make them?

Nintendo's competitors' management: It's a handheld.

Nintendo's competitors' sales analysts: Ok. Heard you the first time, but globally the Switch has been outselling our products for years now. Shouldn't we do something?

Nintendo's competitors' management: It's a handheld.

Nintendo's competitors' sales analysts: Alright. It's a "handheld". It seems very important to you that I acknowledge this. It still sold 100m faster than any other gaming device. Now what?

Nintendo's competitors' management: It's a handheld.

 

[Azurro]

Nintendo might not compete in the exact same console space, but that doesnt mean the Switch is not a console. Is a €100 smartphone not a smartphone because it doesn't compete with a €1000 iPhone? Because that's what you guys are saying.

A Ford might not compete with a Ferrari, but that doesn't mean they're not both cars.

Yup, that's exactly true, the €100 smartphone does not compete with a €1000 iPhone. A person in the market for an iPhone will never buy a €100 smartphone and vice versa. That's why companies release smartphones targeting low end, mid range and high end parts of the market.

Also, saying stupid stuff like 'It needs to have components comparable to midrange PC's to be considered a console' is beyond crazy, cause that would mean the PS4 and Xbone werent consoles either. Both had trash CPU's and slow harddrive making them infinitely inferior to my midrange PC at the time.

Why is it dumb? The consoles had the hardware expected from a generational leap in them, with the power requirements usual for a console plus 8 GBs of GDDR RAM, a big jump at the time. The GPUs were midrange but they were able to provide visuals and support projects much larger and visually more complex than what was possible with the previous generation.

The difference in performance between the Switch and the last gen consoles that released 4 years earlier is vast, to the point that John at DF calls the heavily cut down and performance constrained ports "a miracle". I don't know why this is controversial.

If anything, I think Nintendo was very smart after the Wii U to unify all their game production behind their new handheld and add a dock with HDMI output, it resurrected them.

Walter Matthau , it doesn't really work that way. Do you know what a supplemental and complementary products are? A supplemental product is a direct competitor, for example a person that might buy a PS5 is most likely not going to buy an Xbox and vice versa, whereas a supplemental product is one that complements an existing product in the market and can be bought alongside it without being in direct competition.

The type of customer that only buys a switch is unlikely to be the type of customer that buys an Xbox/PS or builds a gaming PC. On the other hand, plenty if not most of the people that own a Switch usually own a console or a PC as well, because they offer different types of games on each platform.

 

[watdaeff4]

It uses a built in screen,mobile chips and has a model that can only be played on the go.

MS and Sony don't sell versions of the XSX and the PS5 that use a built in screen,mobile chips and can only be played on the go.

I agree with you

Nintendo is more innovative and made a home console that can be played on the go

 

[Chastten]

Yup, that's exactly true, the €100 smartphone does not compete with a €1000 iPhone. A person in the market for an iPhone will never buy a €100 smartphone and vice versa. That's why companies release smartphones targeting low end, mid range and high end parts of the market.

Yeah, but thats irrelevant. If your point is that Nintendo doesn't compete with Sony or Microsoft, then sure, I can live with that. Nintendo's console serves a different audience then Sony's. Sure. I'm fine with that. But Nintendo's console is still a console. Power has nothing to do with that. Power is irrelevant to if something is a console or not.

A €100 smartphone is just as much a smartphone as a €1000 one. Even if they target different audiences.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

A €100 smartphone is just as much a smartphone as a €1000 one. Even if they target different audiences.

A $100 smartphone is just as much a console as the Switch.

Sounds pretty silly eh?
But it's just as if not more capable as the Switch.

 

[JimboJones]

Could open a salt mine in this thread.

 

[AREYOUOKAY?]

Could open a salt mine in this thread.

 

[IFireflyl]

For people saying the Switch is a home console, I have two questions:

Do you agree that the Switch Lite is not a home console?

Would you call this a home console?

I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely curious, so please respond as if I'm not treating you or Nintendo like garbage.

 

[Rykan]

Oh hey look. Nintendo just announced yet another first party title that you can't play in handheld mode. That's their 6th or 7th one?

But by all means keep insisting that it is just a "Handheld console with a HDMI out" ya clowns.

 

[Meesh]

Remarkable.... surely they won't misfire with Switch 2? The first one seems to be setting the standard.

 

[Chastten]

A $100 smartphone is just as much a console as the Switch.

Sounds pretty silly eh?
But it's just as if not more capable as the Switch.

And the PS5 is just as much a console as a dishwasher is. Or something? I really have no clue what kinda point you're trying to make anymore. But yeah, keep being salty.

 

[Chastten]

For people saying the Switch is a home console, I have two questions:

Do you agree that the Switch Lite is not a home console?

Would you call this a home console?

I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely curious, so please respond as if I'm not treating you or Nintendo like garbage.

First, to clarify, I'm not a native English speaker and console isn't a word we use. In Dutch, the word classically used is 'spelcomputer' which basically translates to 'gamecomputer'. As such, a 'console' is any piece of hardware that is primarily used to play games on/with and has the ability to switch games. Now, if you wish you could divide it into 'mobile' and 'home' console and if you do that, the Switch Lite would be a handheld console, while the regular Switch would be a hybrid home/handheld console.

A phone, even if it has gaming features isn't primarily used as a gaming device. Same for a gaming PC or calculator, even if they can actually play games much better than a console.

According to the English dictionary a console is "a piece of electronic equipment for playing computer games", so that's what I'll go with. I mean, you guys can add requirements about mobility, power, weight, or even color, for all I care, if that what makes you happy, but you'd still be wrong on all accounts.

 

[Mozza]

I agree with what several others have said, that a large part of the success of the Switch comes from the fact that there is no other product like it on the market. Of course, it certainly helps that it has a library of high-quality exclusive games that people want to play, but that alone is not enough – otherwise the Wii U wouldn’t have been such a flop. Since Nintendo hardware generally lacks a lot of 3rd party games, they need a ‚hook‘ to make up for it (some would call it ‚gimmick‘). The Wii had an incredible hook (motion controls), as did the DS (touch + dual screens), and of course the Switch (hybrid). The Gamecube on the other hand had no hook to differentiate itself, and the Wii U‘s hook just wasn’t interesting enough.

Make no mistake, if the Switch wasn’t a hybrid, but either just a normal home console, or just a handheld, it would not have been as much of a success as it is today. As a normal console it would’ve probably been another flop, while as a normal handheld it would’ve probably sold similar to the 3DS (which would‘ve still been pretty decent overall). And Nintendo is quite aware of that; they‘ve repeatedly made it very clear that to succeed they have to offer people experiences that they can‘t get anywhere else.

Yes the unique selling point is the hybrid nature of the console, and the lite is just to entice the 3DS customers that did not want or need the full Switch experience.

 

[Mozza]

For people saying the Switch is a home console, I have two questions:

Do you agree that the Switch Lite is not a home console?

Would you call this a home console?

I'm not trolling. I'm genuinely curious, so please respond as if I'm not treating you or Nintendo like garbage.

You could label the Lite as a dedicated handheld device, but it only makes up a small proportion of the overall Switch sames, the majority come from the hybrid consoles which is handheld or home console depending on how you use it.

 

[IFireflyl]

First, to clarify, I'm not a native English speaker and console isn't a word we use. In Dutch, the word classically used is 'spelcomputer' which basically translates to 'gamecomputer'. As such, a 'console' is any piece of hardware that is primarily used to play games on/with and has the ability to switch games. Now, if you wish you could divide it into 'mobile' and 'home' console and if you do that, the Switch Lite would be a handheld console, while the regular Switch would be a hybrid home/handheld console.

A phone, even if it has gaming features isn't primarily used as a gaming device. Same for a gaming PC or calculator, even if they can actually play games much better than a console.

According to the English dictionary a console is "a piece of electronic equipment for playing computer games", so that's what I'll go with. I mean, you guys can add requirements about mobility, power, weight, or even color, for all I care, if that what makes you happy, but you'd still be wrong on all accounts.

I think the problem with that simplistic definition you're using is that cell phones would be considered consoles. I appreciate your input, but saying everyone is wrong by adding more requirements to "console" is pretty harsh, and in my opinion that isn't a good definition because it is extremely vague. That definition was made prior to cell phones being invented, and I feel like the definition needs to be updated.

You could label the Lite as a dedicated handheld device, but it only makes up a small proportion of the overall Switch sames, the majority come from the hybrid consoles which is handheld or home console depending on how you use it.

That's the problem I have though. The Switch overall is considered a home console, but the Switch Lite is included in that, and it is obviously a handheld console. What that tells me is that the primary function of the Switch is to be a handheld, and the secondary function is to act like a home console.

I say "act like" because by that same standard you could label a cell phone a home console, and I think we all agree that even if it has similarities to a home console a cell phone is still a cell phone. I can hook up my Samsung phone to the Samsung Dex and game with it on my PC just like with the Switch.

An argument could be made that the Switch docked is different because the CPU speed is increased while docked, but that's only because it's intentionally limited while in handheld mode, and docking it just gives you it's full power. The ROG phone I linked let's you decide when to use it's full CPU power, whether docked or in handheld mode.

Maybe you disagree with my perspective. In fact, you probably do. That's certainly alright. I don't think one of us is right while the other is wrong. I think the real problem is that there isn't a clear-cut modern definition that makes sense, so this whole argument is pretty subjective.

And as always, props to Nintendo for creating this thing. I'm not diminishing it's success in any way. They definitely succeeded with this device, and they deserve credit for it. I am just arguing that it should be succeeding in the handheld category versus the home console category. Not that that truly matters.

 

[Musashipan]

Impressive!
I have faith that the Switch will be the best selling console ever.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

And the PS5 is just as much a console as a dishwasher is. Or something? I really have no clue what kinda point you're trying to make anymore. But yeah, keep being salty.

See now that makes no sense.

 

[Chastten]

I think the problem with that simplistic definition you're using is that cell phones would be considered consoles. I appreciate your input, but saying everyone is wrong by adding more requirements to "console" is pretty harsh, and in my opinion that isn't a good definition because it is extremely vague. That definition was made prior to cell phones being invented, and I feel like the definition needs to be updated.

The problem with adding requirements is that everyone can do it according to their own agenda. I could say that I dont think the PS5 is a console because it has a terrible symmetric controller, or because it's black, or because it's too heavy, or whatever shit I make up. That doesn't make me right, though. According to the very definition of the word as it is right now, both the PS5 and the Switch are consoles. It's as simple as that.

Even in this topic we went from 'The Switch isnt a console because you can use it in handheld' to 'the Switch isn't a console because it's not powerful enough'. If Nintendo were to release a powerful docked Switch Pro running games at 8K than there would still be people claiming its not a console because reasons.

See now that makes no sense.

Cool, cause that's how most of your posts in this topic read. Glad we agree!

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The problem with adding requirements is that everyone can do it according to their own agenda. I could say that I dont think the PS5 is a console because it has a terrible symmetric controller, or because it's black, or because it's too heavy, or whatever shit I make up. That doesn't make me right, though. According to the very definition of the word as it is right now, both the PS5 and the Switch are consoles. It's as simple as that.

Even in this topic we went from 'The Switch isnt a console because you can use it in handheld' to 'the Switch isn't a console because it's not powerful enough'. If Nintendo were to release a powerful docked Switch Pro running games at 8K than there would still be people claiming its not a console because reasons.



Cool, cause that's how most of your posts in this topic read. Glad we agree!

 

[IFireflyl]

The problem with adding requirements is that everyone can do it according to their own agenda.

The problem with not adding requirements is that a smart refrigerator actually is considered a home console based on your verry narrow definition. The fact that the definition you're using says a smart refrigerator is a home console should tell you that the definition is wrong. How you can't see that is beyond me. We might disagree on what the requirements SHOULD be for how a home console is defined, but we should be able to agree that a refrigerator isn't a home console. And yet, you can't do that with your definition.

 

[jdforge]

Jesus Christ this thread is embarrassing.

It’s a fucking console.