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[Swift_Star]

Just wanted to say I hate when any game does this, be Souls or any other game. I feel like it’s just padding the game length by making you face the same challenges over and over to get to the boss, it’s really frustrating and adds nothing, really, to the game.
It’s pretty telling that DS1 and BB had shortcuts close to the bosses, and that DS3 has bonfires close to the bosses, ultimately they realized this is boring af. I hope Elden Ring preserve this. Once you conquered the level, there’s no need to force us to “run to the boss”.

 

[Kuranghi]

Multi-use gif, this is OP dealing with the ire of Soul's fans AND running back to the boss:

 

[TintoConCasera]

I don't mind them as long as they aren't very long or make me do some boring stuff over and over.

If it's just walking and killing some common enemies, it's fine imo. You are at least earning experience and might get some sick drops.

 

[Honey Bunny]

How many other games do this? Barely any. Let us have this.

 

[Swift_Star]

OP dealing with the ire of Soul's fans:

I’m a souls fan myself. Like I said, even Miyazaki realized this is boring design and they mitigated it in the more recent games.

 

[Swift_Star]

How many other games do this? Barely any. Let us have this.

Don’t think you’ll be getting this on more games tbh. Sekiro AFAIK barely have it and DS3 doesn’t either. It’s an archaic mechanic with the purpose of padding the game and making the player frustrated.

 

[Randall365]

Depends on the boss doesn’t it and whether the run makes you learn something or is just a chore?

 

[Swift_Star]

Depends on the boss doesn’t it and whether the run makes you learn something or is just a chore?

Most time it’s just a chore. In DS3, before the tree boss (forgot its name) there’s nothing to learn really. You just run from the sewer rats, the dogs and the fat magician. What’s to learn? To run? It adds 100% nothing to the game.

 

[tommib]

 

[Con-Z-epT]

It's super hardcore and you just can't appreciate it!

Spoiler: ...

I hate it too but it depends on the game.

 

[rofif]

horsefuck valley

 

[Warablo]

Meanwhile Resident Evil has a run away from the boss mechanic

 

[The artful mincer]

Just wanted to say I hate when any game does this, be Souls or any other game. I feel like it’s just padding the game length by making you face the same challenges over and over to get to the boss, it’s really frustrating and adds nothing, really, to the game.
It’s pretty telling that DS1 and BB had shortcuts close to the bosses, and that DS3 has bonfires close to the bosses, ultimately they realized this is boring af. I hope Elden Ring preserve this. Once you conquered the level, there’s no need to force us to “run to the boss”.

I agree. It's seems From does as well sekiro had barely any long run to bosses as far as I can remember.

Running to the boss is just dead gameplay its boring, time consuming and has almost zero challenge.

Saying that there's nothing wrong with enemy gauntlets and having to start over as that's part of the challenge

 

[Gaelyon]

We already knows thanks to hours long network open beta and the recent previews that Elden Ring has special revive totems/statues (in addition to the bonfires) near each challenging area to allow respawning near the boss. So no worries about that.

 

[AmuroChan]

It is, and that's why it's an archaic design and you see it less and less in recent Souls games.

 

[Magic Carpet]

When you die in a 4 man firefight and have to run through a maze to get back to the action. Yea that kind of sucks.
Best to have an invincibility mode and avoid all that player dying mechanic.

 

[Mr Hyde]

I kinda enjoy it, especially if the level or run is fun. For example, 1-2 in Demon's Souls is a fun gauntlet that I'm happy to redo if I get killed. The same apply to Hemwick Charnal Lane that had quite a long path towards the boss, even with shortcuts. So no, I don't really think it's a chore.

 

[Certinty]

One of the reasons I gave up on Bloodborne. Got tired of having to go through the same area again and farm resources just to be killed by the same boss and do it all over again. If I could just restart the boss battle without all the added effort I would have stuck with it longer.

 

[bender]

Most time it’s just a chore. In DS3, before the tree boss (forgot its name) there’s nothing to learn really. You just run from the sewer rats, the dogs and the fat magician. What’s to learn? To run? It adds 100% nothing to the game.

To get good.

 

[The artful mincer]

When you die in a 4 man firefight and have to run through a maze to get back to the action. Yea that kind of sucks.
Best to have an invincibility mode and avoid all that player dying mechanic.

If the game wants you fight through multiple enemies including a boss fight at the end that's fine combat is fun and the game design should accommodate this.

What's not fun is mindlessly running for 30 seconds to a minute every time you die. Like I said there no challenge and it's time wasting. It's especially annoying against hard bosses that may take 10 to 20 tries. Time spent learning boss is wasted on rubbish gameplay

 

[Aion002]

Just..

 

[Holammer]

I don't think it's bad, but done wrong it wastes the players time and it's just an annoyance.
Hollow Knight did this too, but it eventually gave you the dream gate thing and I think Blasphemous had some too.

But if you want the Dark Souls of Corpse runs? Play some OG Everquest. That's the stuff of nightmares.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I noticed the difference recently when I was fighting a boss in Dying Light 2 and I respawn within the same area as the boss with half his health depleted. I see how the journey there can be annoying, but what did I accomplish if my retry recharges my health and I also have an advantage with the boss having half his health bar?

I wouldn’t make it a point to give up on a game due to this if the game is worth it. It’s irritating, but at the same time once I accomplish the task of defeating that boss. It was all worth it.

 

[V4skunk]

I fight my way to the boss every time. I eventually git gud enuf to cut my way through with out even using a flask...

 

[Kenneth Haight]

 

[The artful mincer]

To get good.

Just..

Ain't that the point though? It's not helping you get good it's wasting your time. If the checkpoint was right next to the boss you can learn to get good quicker and more efficiently

 

[existensmaximum]

Yeah it's bullshit and I hate it. To make things even worse, throw in a long unskippable cutscene too that you need to ensure after that long run why don't you .. Really makes it cumbersome to kill hard bosses.

 

[Hugare]

You may think this is a Sould thread, but its actually a Returnal one

Specially the 3rd boss, its infuriating

But I wouldnt have it any other way. Finally beating it is so rewarding. Its all about the journey.

The 4th boss is easy, but getting to him is an experience

If you know, you know

 

[Jennings]

I still hate unskippable cutscenes before bosses even more.

 

[The artful mincer]

I noticed the difference recently when I was fighting a boss in Dying Light 2 and I respawn within the same area as the boss with half his health depleted. I see how the journey there can be annoying, but what did I accomplish if my retry recharges my health and I also have an advantage with the boss having half his health bar?

I wouldn’t make it a point to give up on a game due to this if the game is worth it. It’s irritating, but at the same time once I accomplish the task of defeating that boss. It was all worth it.

Well this is the other extreme and equally sucks. Having appropriate length checkpoints is important for the game to have a satisfying challenge, teach you to play the game better and force you to make decisions you wouldn't usually make.

The issue here is souls games allow you to run past standard enemies to the boss which is just boring time wasting gameplay.

 

[Aion002]

Ain't that the point though? It's not helping you get good it's wasting your time. If the checkpoint was right next to the boss you can learn to get good quicker and more efficiently

It's actually making you get good.


Souls bosses are not about reflexes and learning patterns (you can play like that, but it's not the point), the point is to learn how to use the mechanics and learn your own limitations and play style.


Iframes, when to retreat, heal, push the offensive and change tactics are things that you can only learn by playing.

The game is not punishing you, the game is just giving you a chance to improve, rather than memorize some patterns and exploit them...

 

[Northeastmonk]

I completely understand why accessibility options are there and why easy mode is still beating the game. It all depends on what the person wants. Yeah, Elden Ring has fixed that whole trot back to the boss thing.

 

[Kiddo Cabbusses]

I don't get how this is a Souls thread when the "run to the boss" sounds vague enough to describe nearly every 2D or 3D platformer or action game in existence.

 

[The artful mincer]

You may think this is a Sould thread, but its actually a Returnal one

Specially the 3rd boss, its infuriating

But I wouldnt have it any other way. Finally beating it is so rewarding. Its all about the journey.

The 4th boss is easy, but getting to him is an experience

If you know, you know

I have yet to play returnal so do correct me if I am wrong but isn't the game designed around this properly.

The game is more about preparing for each run getting the right gear playing well so you have more health etc?

This is all good is beacause the game tuned properly to accommodate this. Where is just running mindlessly to a boss doent add anything of value.

 

[bender]

Ain't that the point though? It's not helping you get good it's wasting your time. If the checkpoint was right next to the boss you can learn to get good quicker and more efficiently

Sometimes it's best to sit back and think rather than to run head first back into that brick wall. Maybe you just need to be a thoughtful as Lord Miyazaki.

 

[The artful mincer]

It's actually making you get good.


Souls bosses are not about reflexes and learning patterns (you can play like that, but it's not the point), the point is to learn how to use the mechanics and learn your own limitations and play style.


Iframes, when to retreat, heal, push the offensive and change tactics are things that you can only learn by playing.

The game is not punishing you, the game is just giving you a chance to improve, rather than memorize some patterns and exploit them...

How? I am not practising any of these things when just running to the boss.

I don't mind a game forcing me to fight enemies I ve already defeated (Within reason I am not playing a perma death game anytime soon).

I don't like a game forcing me to do boring stuff completely unrelated to the challenge I am trying to overcome.

 

[Swift_Star]

I noticed the difference recently when I was fighting a boss in Dying Light 2 and I respawn within the same area as the boss with half his health depleted. I see how the journey there can be annoying, but what did I accomplish if my retry recharges my health and I also have an advantage with the boss having half his health bar?

I wouldn’t make it a point to give up on a game due to this if the game is worth it. It’s irritating, but at the same time once I accomplish the task of defeating that boss. It was all worth it.

I’ve never seen this before. Pretty weird if you ask me.

 

[Swift_Star]

It's actually making you get good.


Souls bosses are not about reflexes and learning patterns (you can play like that, but it's not the point), the point is to learn how to use the mechanics and learn your own limitations and play style.


Iframes, when to retreat, heal, push the offensive and change tactics are things that you can only learn by playing.

The game is not punishing you, the game is just giving you a chance to improve, rather than memorize some patterns and exploit them...

And how does making you run the whole level like in DeS helps with that? It doesn’t. It’s why a lot of people save scum that game.

 

[Swift_Star]

I don't get how this is a Souls thread when the "run to the boss" sounds vague enough to describe nearly every 2D or 3D platformer or action game in existence.

Mega Man got really boring really fast because of it. I’m glad we have “cheat” options in the modern ports so we can skip this.

 

[Thief1987]

It's actually making you get good.


Souls bosses are not about reflexes and learning patterns (you can play like that, but it's not the point), the point is to learn how to use the mechanics and learn your own limitations and play style.


Iframes, when to retreat, heal, push the offensive and change tactics are things that you can only learn by playing.

The game is not punishing you, the game is just giving you a chance to improve, rather than memorize some patterns and exploit them...

Did you even read the OP or you came here just to insert your stupid git gud gifs?

 

[Spaceman292]

Just wanted to say I hate when any game does this, be Souls or any other game. I feel like it’s just padding the game length by making you face the same challenges over and over to get to the boss, it’s really frustrating and adds nothing, really, to the game.
It’s pretty telling that DS1 and BB had shortcuts close to the bosses, and that DS3 has bonfires close to the bosses, ultimately they realized this is boring af. I hope Elden Ring preserve this. Once you conquered the level, there’s no need to force us to “run to the boss”.

Just stop losing to the bosses bro

 

[The artful mincer]

Sometimes it's best to sit back and think rather than to run head first back into that brick wall. Maybe you just need to be a thoughtful as Lord Miyazaki.

Think about what? How I can get behind him and poke him in the butt with a sword maybe I could do it with a spear this time whoo!

I will give you one thing keeping the checkpoint far away can raise the stakes and tension but that's about it

 

[Aion002]

And how does making you run the whole level like in DeS helps with that? It doesn’t. It’s why a lot of people save scum that game.

Well, the more you play the better you get.

At least that's how I improved on them.

Save scum on a Souls game... I had to google what was it...

Do you even read the OP or you came here just to insert your stupid git gud gifs?

Well, both. Also...

 

[bender]

Think about what? How I can get behind him and poke him in the butt with a sword maybe I could do it with a spear this time whoo!

I will give you one thing keeping the checkpoint far away can raise the stakes and tension but that's about it

Time and thinking led you to the real reason why the mechanic is there in the first place. A game about consequences should have consequences. Maybe that same time and thinking could you lead you to better strategies for beating the boss or the path to the boss let's you explore more and discover something you missed in the first place or make you come to the realization that your character and equipment aren't at an appropriate level.

 

[MastAndo]

Did I read that Elden Ring is more generous than its predecessors with checkpoint locations closer to bosses, or am I imagining that?

 

[skit_data]

The only souls-game that has a unbareable boss run up is NG+ and above Demon’s Souls when trying to get past those fucking Mindflayers on the way to Maneater and Golden Monk. Those fuckers always feel like a chore because you lose your patience and make a stupid rush towards em and then they one-shot your ass.

Edit: Ah, also the run up to Old Hero sucks.

 

[mcjmetroid]

Hallow Knight is VERY bad for this I feel.

But in souls games it's also true but not as bad. There is a slight element of strategy in how you get to the boss in souls games. You can find "secret" bonfires that are satisfying as fuck to find.

In general though OP I agree, the challenge should be IN the boss fight not testing your endurance by making you run to the boss over and over again.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

In Demon's Souls the challenge is often the level itself, not the boss. That's why this mechanic makes sense in that game. The boss is just last opportunity for you to choke and fail.

As the games have focused more on challenging boss fights they've phased out this mechanic

 

[Randall365]

The only souls-game that has a unbareable boss run up is NG+ and above Demon’s Souls when trying to get past those fucking Mindflayers on the way to Maneater and Golden Monk. Those fuckers always feel like a chore because you lose your patience and make a stupid rush towards em and then they one-shot your ass.

Edit: Ah, also the run up to Old Hero sucks.

Having completed that recently, that boss run (the last mindflayer in particular) helped me for three reasons:

1. It taught you that you had to equip the Thief Ring before the boss.

2. It forced you to have a really good range weapon.

3. It exposes under-powered weapons/under levelling.

In my case, the first couple of times, the run seemed like hell and maneater x 2 was impossible. After equipping thief ring and powering up my compound longbow/levelling up my health/stamina, the run was trivial and the boss fight do-able.

 

[WitchHunter]

Just wanted to say I hate when any game does this, be Souls or any other game. I feel like it’s just padding the game length by making you face the same challenges over and over to get to the boss, it’s really frustrating and adds nothing, really, to the game.
It’s pretty telling that DS1 and BB had shortcuts close to the bosses, and that DS3 has bonfires close to the bosses, ultimately they realized this is boring af. I hope Elden Ring preserve this. Once you conquered the level, there’s no need to force us to “run to the boss”.

What a load of crap. You have time to think or it could drive up your anger. It might compel ppl to chill and think, before dying again. While you run you can reevaluate things. Ofc fullly retarded people need to die 110 times the same way and whine about "running back".