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[Sony]

Phil said they lost the Xbox One generation and said there is no great solution or win for us when it comes to competing against Sony and Nintendo.

That very much sounds like Phil is admitting defeat against Sony and Nintendo in the console space.

This is a very different mindset from nearly 10 years ago.

http://[URL]https://www.destructoid...xbox-one-to-win-this-generations-console-war/

[/URL]


They also talked about being more competitive (which also refers to the console space) within the past year while trying to get this ABK deal approved and now things seem to be changing again.

Phil does in fact sound defeated.

Phil literally said: "I see commentary that if you just build great games, everything would turn around. It's just not true that if we go off and build great games, all of a sudden you're going to see console share shift in some dramatic way".
The only thing this refers to is outselling Sony or gaining a significant marketshare in consoles sold. Nothing less, nothing more.
Do you really think they'd spend $7.5billion on Zenimax and $70 billion if they didn't want to compete?

I really, really want NeoGAF to grow again as a community but the level of discourse here is so mind numbingly weak. It's insane.

 

[feynoob]

You haven't heard yet?

Did he really bought stocks? I thought it was just a meme

He bought stocks. But that still doesn't explain his behavior.

 

[feynoob]

Do you really think they'd spend $7.5billion on Zenimax and $70 billion if they didn't want to compete?

That is not competition, I am sorry man.

Xbox can't fix their issues with money like that. They need to fix their management first and invest heavily on their studios. Not spend that big amount of money for console competition.

 

[Thabass]

Not something I want to hear from someone who sold me a $500 console with the promise of great games either. His goal should not be to make PS5 owners sell their consoles. His goal should be to make gamers buy Xbox. Now he is doing the opposite and making Xbox customers like me think I made a mistake.

Unfortunately, I no longer think I did, with comments like this, I am now sure of it.

 

[Tomi]

Phil Spencer just sold 1 million ps5 consoles with one sentence

Congrats Sony

 

[Desprado123]

Wow. People are dumb or at least not capable of comprehension. If your takeaway from this comment is that Xbox is giving up on trying to make quality games, maybe work on active listening skills.

It was a well thought out point that is true. If XBox releases a GOW/TLOU/Uncharted equivalent, even with critical acclaim, they aren't going to go from 3rd place to 1st place. They can't compete using strictly SONY's business model. Their path is through innovation and different services. People (as incredibly obvious viewing NeoGaf) are entrenched in their preference. If the quarterly quality games into Gamepass improving the cost/benefit ratio starts hitting, then that is a possibility but in terms of tactics for competing, it is self aware to admit that traditional console tactics aren't going to pay that many dividends in improving Xbox's foothold in the market.

Dam he clearly said that they are not making any type of Sony or Nintendo exclusive. He clearly said that they are not going to follow Sony or Nintendo exclusive and said that our goal is more diverse games in simple more MP games.

 

[RGB'D]

Xbox has to improve outside of US and UK. That means more 3rd party partnership and not just delivering great games.

MS fucked up badly by sticking with him. They need a new guy at this moment. Phil cant lead Xbox anymore. He had a whole gen and half. His time is done.

The division needs fresh people and new ideas.

Which is fine. They can simultaneously benefit from different leadership and also have everything he said about competition be true. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts. At the end of the day if Xbox works the PS methodology to perfection, they still are not overtaking PS. SONY is too entrenched.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Quite telling.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Working over time to try and recoup his stock market losses I guess, hopefully hes on the $200/hr package.

Honestly, I want someone to love me and defend me as SenjutsuSage loves and defends Xbox

 

[feynoob]

Not something I want to hear from someone who sold me a $500 console with the promise of great games either. His goal should not be to make PS5 owners sell their consoles. His goal should be to make gamers buy Xbox. Now he is doing the opposite and making Xbox customers like me think I made a mistake.

I am glad I didn't buy xsx. There was no reason for me to buy it, as my Xbox one s is still working.

Plus it's better investment for me to invest on my PC, rather than buy Xbox, which I can play their games on my PC.

I will buy it when it's cheap in 2-3 years from now.

 

[onQ123]

Plot twist I'm Phil Spencer & it really isn't the games unless they can also stop Sony from getting good games lol

 

[Sony]

Did it shift though? PS3 outsold 360 worldwide 2007, 8, 9. The only year 360 did better was 2010 or 2011 with Kinect mania.

Exactly. PS3 launched a year later than 360 and in its launch year in launched in less markets than 360 did. It also had no in-game XMB, it had objectively the worst versions of multiplat games, had less first- and thirt party excusives, was significantly more expensive than 360 and on top of that, had all doom and gloom vibe for Sony in online blogs and message boards. Yet it outsold the 360 wordwide.

 

[DosGamer]

I just did a quick look online. MS has roughly 24 Microsoft exclusives for the Xbox. Of those 24, 4 are Halo games, 3 are Gears of War and 3 are Forza. That is 10 of 24 games. Add in Sea of Thieves and Flight Simulator.... (2 of the biggest games on xbox in my opinion). That is roughly 12 unique games. Anyway you put it.... its unacceptable.

Forgive me if my numbers are off, but the issue is clear.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

Anyone know how is SenjutsuSage coping? I'm really worried about him.

Can someone close to him tell him not to commit sudoku please?

Hes a paid shill. He probably games on a PS5

 

[feynoob]

Which is fine. They can simultaneously benefit from different leadership and also have everything he said about competition be true. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts. At the end of the day if Xbox works the PS methodology to perfection, they still are not overtaking PS. SONY is too entrenched.

Sony has Japan and EU locked for a long time.
I agree with the rest.

 

[Darsxx82]

You are ignoring a ton of shit that he said. He said there isn't a "solution or win" as far as "out-consoling" Sony or Nintendo and that led into this absurd whine that building great games isn't going to change their market share. That's admitting defeat.

It's funny because it's the same thing that SONY said to the CMA when they stated that without COD their console business would fall and that their first party games do not have the power by themselves to sell consoles today.....

I just read and listened to the interview and there are several things that I can conclude:

1 P. Spencer is correct in what he says. Whoever denies it is self-deceived. MS is not going to sell more consoles than NiN and Sony just releasing great first party games. Which is exactly what Sony itself asserted to the CMA and FTC.
Many more things are needed if XBOX want compete in sales. Those other things, in my opinion, are advertising and agreements with the large 3rd parties, which are the ones that most effectively change the mindshare of the majority of potential users.

2- MS is not managing to comply with this aspect of marketing and agreements with Big third parties Studios and IPs.
The question is what is the reason. Gpass takes everything to the investment in advertising?? MS cuts in console advertising?? Sony's dominance makes agreements with 3rd party difficult and expensive? All of that at once ?
What matters in the end is that if XBOX does not invest in these aspects, it will have an impossible time against SONY and, of course, only on the basis of first party, it will not be able to improve the results of XBO, for example.

3- As much reason as it may have, those words cannot be publicly affirmed by the leader of a business. The mistake he make is such that I can expect a clarification soon because it does not do the image of your product or the trust of your users any good.

It's strange to see how he try to encourage and sell that the future in first party and content is going to shine and at the same time deny that this is going to have any effect in attracting new people to your platform...

Seeing the success of this thread and the reactions on twitter and forums... it is clear that this interview has not helped to clear up doubts, quite the contrary.

 

[newtypepilot]

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Wow. People are dumb or at least not capable of comprehension. If your takeaway from this comment is that Xbox is giving up on trying to make quality games, maybe work on active listening skills.

It was a well thought out point that is true. If XBox releases a GOW/TLOU/Uncharted equivalent, even with critical acclaim, they aren't going to go from 3rd place to 1st place. They can't compete using strictly SONY's business model. Their path is through innovation and different services. People (as incredibly obvious viewing NeoGaf) are entrenched in their preference. If the quarterly quality games into Gamepass improving the cost/benefit ratio starts hitting, then that is a possibility but in terms of tactics for competing, it is self aware to admit that traditional console tactics aren't going to pay that many dividends in improving Xbox's foothold in the market.

Okay.

Which is why the statement can have a worrying implication that he's actually referring to Microsoft's wider stance of pushing through on gaming acquisitions as a means for the growth in the console market (and cloud and mobile markets) they seek. Because through any observation since 2014 we can see that when Xbox had spikes in gaming revenue, it was after a major acquisition. Mojang, Zenimax...and I'm sure they're hoping for similar with ABK though the path for that one is closing rapidly.

Personally I'm not a fan of mass consolidation, and Microsoft need to focus on what's already on their plate, rather than dumping more onto it. There's some stuff Phil says in this interview which suggest he knows that, but whether Microsoft people at the top (Satya Nadella, Brad Smith etc.) see it that way, or if Phil Spencer can somehow sell them on a different growth strategy with Xbox/Game Pass/xCloud that doesn't rely on publisher acquisitions, remains to be seen.

Realistically MS should not be trying to release GOW/TLOU caliber games to expect they suddenly catch up to Sony. They should be doing that just out of passion for creating games, and to rebuild Xbox's reputation over a period of time and gradually build it into a more appealing brand. Doing that and marketing that the right way will naturally have the market share growth follow, they just have to be consistent and patient about it. And make sure the hardware is quality, keep the features strong and improving, get more creative about how to differentiate yourself in the market that (preferably) doesn't rely on needing to acquire more major 3P publishers.

 

[Sony]

That is not competition, I am sorry man.

Xbox can't fix their issues with money like that. They need to fix their management first and invest heavily on their studios. Not spend that big amount of money for console competition.

That's not competition in your opinion. I'm not saying it will fix their issues, I'm refuting the claim that they gave up. Read.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Plot twist I'm Phil Spencer & it really isn't the games unless they can also stop Sony from getting good games lol

Yet look at the splits. Great exclusives drive people to your console in which they are more than likely to purchase third party on as well. But when you condition your base to sub instead of buy the last 5+ years... well...

 

[Elios83]

Is he on his way out after the Activision debacle?
I remember when Ken Kutaragi was talking around PS3 launch about Sony's decreased strength in electronics causing the high costs and poor yields of Blu Ray. He didn't last long before retirement.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Exactly. PS3 launched a year later than 360 and in its launch year in launched in less markets than 360 did. It also had no in-game XMB, it had objectively the worst versions of multiplat games, had less first- and thirt party excusives, was significantly more expensive than 360 and on top of that, had all doom and gloom vibe for Sony in online blogs and message boards. Yet it outsold the 360 wordwide.

This is fact, Sony is in a whole different league when it comes to mindshare. They literally failed in every way for a majority of a generation and it still sold a shit load of consoles.

I don't think MS is giving up on consoles but it is just a part of their wider business, which is services and PC allows them to avoid all the nastyness of hardware losses and still make bank.

 

[Beastclaw Raider]

Sad, very sad... I was working at a toysrus in the videogames section, wearing my sony provided tshirt when the xbox launched because I was young and a ps2 fanboy. By the end of that generation, I was an xbox fan and it was my favorite console of that gen, because of the games.

Oh well

 

[Danjin44]

 

[Punished Miku]

Phil literally said: "I see commentary that if you just build great games, everything would turn around. It's just not true that if we go off and build great games, all of a sudden you're going to see console share shift in some dramatic way".
The only thing this refers to is outselling Sony or gaining a significant marketshare in consoles sold. Nothing less, nothing more.
Do you really think they'd spend $7.5billion on Zenimax and $70 billion if they didn't want to compete?

I really, really want NeoGAF to grow again as a community but the level of discourse here is so mind numbingly weak. It's insane.

It's just gaslighting nonstop.

 

[Drew1440]

Pronouns and virtue signaling don't sell consoles, I think he knows that Microsoft needs to to for the Xbox to succeed, but feels Microsoft's company structure holds or even prevents that from happening.
This does sounds a lot like Sega in 1997 when Bernie Stolar declared the Saturn was not their future, despite the Dreamcast not being ready to launch in the US for another two years.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Just some gamming t-shirts

 

[Germuso]

But is he saying the true?

 

[feynoob]

Realistically MS should not be trying to release GOW/TLOU caliber games to expect they suddenly catch up to Sony. They should be doing that just out of passion for creating games, and to rebuild Xbox's reputation over a period of time and gradually build it into a more appealing brand. Doing that and marketing that the right way will naturally have the market share growth follow, they just have to be consistent and patient about it. And make sure the hardware is quality, keep the features strong and improving, get more creative about how to differentiate yourself in the market that (preferably) doesn't rely on needing to acquire more major 3P publishers.

MS combined both pc and Xbox, which killed Xbox in the process.

As long as day1 pc exist, Xbox will be a doubt.

I still don't have xsx/s because there is no need to buy them. My Xbox one s is enough, and I can stream their exclusives through xcloud, plus most games are still cross gen.

 

[Topher]

Exactly. PS3 launched a year later than 360 and in its launch year in launched in less markets than 360 did. It also had no in-game XMB, it had objectively the worst versions of multiplat games, had less first- and thirt party excusives, was significantly more expensive than 360 and on top of that, had all doom and gloom vibe for Sony in online blogs and message boards. Yet it outsold the 360 wordwide.

The worldwide sales ratio between PS3 and 360 was nearly 50-50. Also, the last official numbers between Microsoft and Sony was like four years apart.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is shoking they need to change their quality/review team

If this is genuinely true at MS (and to be fair I dont think any company wants to purposely release crap products unless its some noname company trying to sell dollar store items that will break on first use... it's happened to me), it goes to show their standards in game quality is way lower than the average gamer or game critic.

Maybe all the people saying wokeism is bad for gaming isnt that exaggerrated after all. Hire people who dont know what they are doing and they wont know what's a good or bad product.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

They have a $300 console that was on sale many times and GP for $1. I think they're just admitting what is plain to see. They're obviously never going to be able to displace them in the console space.

I’m sure there were many people saying the same thing about Nokia. Or Atari.
Ridiculous thing to say from a chief executive from one of the worlds largest corporation with a market cap many times that of Sony.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

How does he know if releasing consistently good games wouldn't garner market share though when he hasn't done that while being boss of Xbox ?
Sony did it in the PS3 era while ms was doing all the deals and had all the advertising for the biggest games and came out fine , they didn't need to buy the biggest gaming ip to compete with ms .

Sony was always on track to outsell the Xbox in that generation, from the day the PS3 launched. Even launching at $600 or whatever and having bad games and a system that third parties struggled with. You’re just proving his point here. They were also coming off the PS2 which sold over 100,000,000 IIRC. Actually just looked it up, sold almost 160,000,000 Yeah go ahead and compare Xbox to that.

Again, he’s not saying they aren’t trying to make great games. He’s not saying they need to try and outsell Sony and since they can’t, what’s the point. He’s saying a string of great titles wouldn’t make them the #1 console and he’s right, it wouldn’t. They simply don’t have the worldwide brand the others do. Now, we can talk all day and night about WHY they don’t, about mistakes made in every single generation, but it doesn’t matter in context of what he said. And he even admits this is all on them, so we don’t have to even talk about why.

 

[feynoob]

That's not competition in your opinion. I'm not saying it will fix their issues, I'm refuting the claim that they gave up. Read.

They gave up the day they did pc day1, and xcloud.
Xbox console at this point is after thought for MS.

The writing was on the wall, since they started their cloud gaming promotions.

 

[RGB'D]

Dam he clearly said that they are not making any type of Sony or Nintendo exclusive. He clearly said that they are not going to follow Sony or Nintendo exclusive and said that our goal is more diverse games in simple more MP games.

So your first part is 100% correct. Their strategy is not to release one killer ap like PS/Nintendo. Which is what I said.

The MP games portion is not even remotely correct and your own opinion. He didnt say that and that is just your assumption. They could have a diverse portfolio of strictly single player games and that would mean the same. Most likely it is hybrid between MP and SP. The point is that traditionally competing with killer releases in the PS business model wouldn't change the market.

 

[El Pistolero]

This is surreal...

 

[Cyberpunkd]

If this is genuinely true at MS (and to be fair I dont think any company wants to purposely release crap products unless its some noname company trying to sell dollar store items that will break on first use... it's happened to me), it goes to show their standards in game quality is way lower than the average gamer or game critic.

Maybe all the people saying wokeism is bad for gaming isnt that exaggerrated after all. Hire people who dont know what they are doing and they wont know what's a good or bad product.

Or maybe nobody wanted to say the truth that many were thinking when they tested the game internally?

 

[Jigsaah]

So I went ahead and watched the whole interview and Phil is PISSED.

It was almost scary too watch, but at the same time...I think this is a prime opportunity to really pivot. Maybe he'll start putting some feet up people's asses now, who knows?

 

[TexMex]

He said all the right things. His messaging here is delivered perfectly.

But that’s what it always is. It’s always all talk, no action. It is a little odd to see him basically throwing in the towel on year 3 tho.

 

[feynoob]

This is surreal...

It feels like a nightmare. Nobody expected that.

Pelta88 can you wake us up?

 

[RGB'D]

Sony was always on track to outsell the Xbox in that generation, from the day the PS3 launched. Even launching at $600 or whatever and having bad games and a system that third parties struggled with. You’re just proving his point here. They were also coming off the PS2 which sold over 100,000,000 IIRC. Actually just looked it up, sold almost 160,000,000 Yeah go ahead and compare Xbox to that.

Again, he’s not saying they aren’t trying to make great games. He’s not saying they need to try and outsell Sony and since they can’t, what’s the point. He’s saying a string of great titles wouldn’t make them the #1 console and he’s right, it wouldn’t. They simply don’t have the worldwide brand the others do. Now, we can talk all day and night about WHY they don’t, about mistakes made in every single generation, but it doesn’t matter in context of what he said. And he even admits this is all on them, so we don’t have to even talk about why.

How is this concept so hard for people to understand? Legitimately. It boggles my mind.

 

[Sony]

The worldwide sales ratio between PS3 and 360 was nearly 50-50. Also, the last official numbers between Microsoft and Sony was like four years apart.

If that was the worldwide sales ratio, PS3 would have never overtook the 360's one year lead on the market in more regions. So
(a) it's false and
(b) if it was 50/50, that would still imply the 360 didn't outsell the PS3.

They gave up the day they did pc day1, and xcloud.
Xbox console at this point is after thought for MS.

The writing was on the wall, since they started their cloud gaming promotions.

What exactly did they give up on according to you?

 

[Desprado123]

So your first part is 100% correct. Their strategy is not to release one killer ap like PS/Nintendo. Which is what I said.

The MP games portion is not even remotely correct and your own opinion. He didnt say that and that is just your assumption. They could have a diverse portfolio of strictly single player games and that would mean the same. Most likely it is hybrid between MP and SP. The point is that traditionally competing with killer releases in the PS business model wouldn't change the market.

Yes i miss typed it. I mean more Redfall games he meant maybe.

 

[DenchDeckard]

He said all the right things. His messaging here is delivered perfectly.

But that’s what it always is. It’s always all talk, no action. It is a little odd to see him basically throwing in the towel on year 3 tho.

I think his intentions were good, but it's all probably a bit too much for him now. Guys been through the ringer. They tried to give studios freedom but it's bitten them in the ass. Peeps are fed up and theres only one thing thats going to fix it...Games and firm release dates with great looking products. If they dont have that, or anything to show in the next month...Might as well give up entirely and let someone else have a crack at it.

 

[LRKD]

How to make Xbox competitive. 1 stop putting games on pc. 2 release good, must have games

Done, Xbox won’t be king overnight but eventually it’d be in a competitive spot.

 

[N30RYU]

At this point... if they have adquired activision I wonder if they would have done a 6/10 Call of Duty out of it to just release another gamepass game on schedule tbh

 

[feynoob]

The worldwide sales ratio between PS3 and 360 was nearly 50-50. Also, the last official numbers between Microsoft and Sony was like four years apart.

But Sony mistake allowed that to happen.

If PS3 didn't have development issues, we wouldn't see that x360 side.

 

[LectureMaster]

"We have a plan and we feel very solid about it. I believe we have a plan that can win [the next generation.]"

Sigh, I guess things have certainly changed. Determined Phil to crestfallen Phil.

 

[feynoob]

Sigh, I guess things have certainly changed. Determined Phil to crestfallen Phil.

Reality hit him hard.

 

[ComputerBlue]

This is likely the first time where I’ve listened to Phil and thought wow he’s actually speaking honestly, and it makes me wonder, what’s the catch? I immediately put my guard up and think, who is he trying to bullshit, because that’s what he does. Is this their ploy to convince people that purchasing Activision isn’t a juggernaut acquisition and won’t hurt their competitors? I just don’t trust this guy to say shit like this and take it at face value.