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[Forth]

He's talking rubbish. If you make great games then people will buy your console.
Xbox hasn't been lead properly since kinect happened, they're a joke at the moment.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

There's always an ulterior motive with quotes like this, so there's two ways to look at what he's saying.

1: He knows MS has plans to shift Microsoft Gaming towards a full 3P publisher model, and shift the Xbox hardware into a PC gaming line of products running Windows

2: He knows MS are planning to fight the CMA's decision and try their damnedest to continue this publisher acquisition strategy to "compete"

Yes on the surface Phil's words are rather honest because no one amazing game or series of them will help Xbox gain back big market share from a competitor who's releasing just as many if not more great, amazing games at the exact same time, and has a much better track record to boot. But, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, this also seems like a coded statement for "Can't you see why we need this acquisition? Making games with what we have won't let us "compete" on its own.".

But again it could also be him pointing towards (1), which I think is looking like an increasingly favorable proposition for Microsoft's gaming division, for a lot of reasons. It would upset the console warriors who want the 360 days back, who want so badly for PS to be toppled by Xbox, but the reality is Xbox is at a crossroads where the only way they can really do that (in MS's eyes) is through a consolidation strategy that's being rightfully scrutinized and closed in on. So if they can't rely on that, and they feel what they have isn't enough to compete (it is, and would be if management at the top were stronger, IMO), and Xbox profits aren't looking so hot...why not just change up the business model into something that would actually work?

This comment of his from that interview is very telling one way or another beyond just the "We can't catch PlayStation!" statement it wants to make.

 

[adamsapple]

Pray tell - what message do you think Phil was trying to express in that interview?

The same thing he's said before about not being in direct competition with Sony, not that they've 'admitted defeat' like the OP headline implies. Those are two different statements.

 

[PropellerEar]

Kinda surprised no one has latched onto him saying he gets paid too much for what he does. There's some more stuff in there guys you can use to keep this party going.

Noted...

 

[sainraja]

The Gamecube got demolished as well. They make great games.

You guys are not acknowledging the brand consolidation consumers are demonstrating.

The GameCube looked like a toy at a time when the other consoles were trying to appeal to the teens/older crowd. I think that definitely did not help Nintendo.

 

[OuterLimits]

I preferred them at the start of that gen.

I will agree with you on this. I much preferred the Sony in the second half of the PS3 generation and early years during the PS4.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Phil isn't admitting defeat in the console space, but it's evident they realized a while ago that it's unlikely to ever outsell Playstations in the near future.

The reason anyone says he's admitting defeat in the console space is specifically because he is saying `we can't out console sony and Nintendo`. You can`t more clearly admit defeat than that.

Hence why Phil came up with the idea of expansion and disruption to put Xbox in a place where they will eventually outgross Sony and Nintendo in the videogame market, even if they may never outsell them console-wise.

And this is no surprise to anyone here either, a lot of us has said many times over, that MS focus is not on consoles anymore, but on gamepass. And a lot of xbox fans would even denounce that and point out how GP is only responsible for 15% of Xbox revenue. So which is it? We are hearing from him here that they are trying to do their own thing, and that `own` thing is gamepass. Plain and simple.

It's the reason why Microsoft has finally given Xbox it's full backing, elevated them to being a pillar of the company, and invested billions of dollars including acquisitions to make it come to fruition.

Yes, its also the reason why MS is trying to acquire as many IPs and publishers as they can.... while simultaneously championing this fake rhetoric of gaming for everyone yet being the single biggest offender when it comes to putting games out of the hands of gamers. Sony pays for timed exclusives, but that doesn't mean the games won't come to other platforms,MS on the other hand, just want to prevent the games from being on other platforms period. And yet are the ones taking the most about inclusion. Their idea of games being on everything is actually you buying into their service. And that some cant see how two-faced that is is shocking to me.

At the end of the day, anyone that buys an xbox, buys it to play games, would want to see that the primary focus of the platform is on games. It would (or at least should)be very unsettling to hear the head of xbox say, making great games isn't the solution to their problem, then start talking about gamepass... cause it is like they are saying our initiative is to push for quantity over quality.

What dug both Nintendo and Sony out of their holes, were great games, great first-party output.... and that is the one thing MS is still refusing to prioritize. That Xbox still clearly doesn't get this.... should be very concerning to any Xbox fan.

 

[Topfuel]

How hard is it to make an 7/10 + game with the library MS have access to? This is just like how Disney handle their Star Wars and Marvel library after The Force Awakens and Phase 3.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The same thing he's said before about not being in direct competition with Sony, not that they've 'admitted defeat' like the OP headline implies. Those are two different statements.

Bullshit.

 

[Topher]

"I see the commentary that if you just build great games everything will turn around. It’s just not true that if we go off and build great games all of a sudden you’re going to see console share shift in some dramatic way."

 

[X-Wing]

Dear Mr. Spencer,


I understand you are frustrated about the place Xbox finds itself at the time but let's be honest, what you claim is incorrect.

You claim that some competitors make it very difficult for Xbox to be Xbox, but Xbox started failing when it stopped being Xbox to be just another Microsoft product.

The console you now claim cannot beat Sony's nor Nintendo's offerings did just that by being just Xbox with the original Xbox and with the Xbox 360, and all it had to do back then to conquer its place was to have great games.
Something you somehow now don't believe to be an option?

Remember Halo, Fable, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Blinx, Midtown Madness, Gears, Forza, Kameo, Blue Dragon and many, many, many other games that gave Xbox an identity that gamers could identify with?
That was what made Xbox great and made people like myself enjoy it.

Then Microsoft saw that Xbox could be successful and turned it into Microsoft's Xbox. Wanting to screw consumers over like Microsoft had been doing for decades on the PC segment. DRM, data collection and selling it for ads instead of games.
Gamers walked away because they wanted an Xbox and not a Microsoft Xbox, when you saw that this was failing you doubled down on your efforts to keep gamers on your ecosystem so Xbox could contribute to the Microsoft ecosystem by creating Gamepass.
A loss leader kind of business that only Microsoft has the money to participate in. Unfortunately, it also lacked the games and gamers don't seem that thrilled about it anymore.

It is frustrating to me as a gamer to see the company with the most resources constantly failing, you have more studios, more developers and more money than the competion. Yes, great games take a long time to make, but you've had 20+ years, so come on!
Instead of trying to change the industry with your endless money to buy your place into it, regain focus, look at what made Xbox great in the past and learn from it. Your fans are telling you your approach is wrong, consumers are walking away from your product because your approach is wrong, then change your approach!

Everyone wins if Xbox can be a strong competitor in the industry but when you seem to not even be trying and to only be able to resort to dick moves that make the industry worse to everyone, why the hell do you come to the public to portray yourself as a victim when the lack of identity and soul of your brand is entirely your responsibility?

Sincerely yours,

 

[Max_Po]

He is basically admitting that the only solution is to acquire and take away from SONY to be relavant in console space.

 

[GHG]

He never said making great games wouldn't help. He said making great games wouldn't cause someone to drop PS and go to MS. Watch the video .

And why exactly does someone need to drop Playstation and go to Xbox?

Nintendo have carved out a healthy market for themselves as a supplementary console, wherein a huge proportion of their customers also own another system. There are plenty of other examples of this across various industries. It doesn't need to be one or the other, especially not when gamepass seems to be their primary value proposition. Consumers are not binary.

The problem is that he's not delivering in a way that enough people even want to go out and purchase an Xbox in addition to anything else, let alone as a stand alone purchase. The primary way to do that in the gaming industry is to ensure the business is delivering must have/play games/experiences and he doesn't seem to be interested in doing what's necessary to deliver on that.

So in light of all that, what exactly is their purpose at the moment?

 

[Saber]

He never said making great games wouldn't help. He said making great games wouldn't cause someone to drop PS and go to MS. Watch the video .

So what dude? Why does he cares if he beats Sony or Nintendo? This is console warrior territory.
He should be worried about selling his consoles and games. Great games sells, as proved by Nintendo when it was on bad times and it still didn't matter because it still sells.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

I remember Gary Whitta - ACE and The One.

And fuck me round about 14 mins just STFU!!

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The same thing he's said before about not being in direct competition with Sony, not that they've 'admitted defeat' like the OP headline implies. Those are two different statements.

He literally said they can't out console Sony or Nintendo which to me implies they are trying and he knows they can't

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

He's still downplaying making great games and as a platform owner, that's a ridiculously stupid thing to say.

Not to mention he's crying about sony paying for third party exclusives when his approach was to buy the game, the developer and the publisher then proceed to shutdown all playstation development. See zenimax.

This interview is not sincere, it's just more PR lines from him.

 

[Simpkin92]

Phil has finally lost my support. He needs replaced. Been a rough past decade and we need someone new to right the ship. His comments seem half ass backwards. Hello to my first playstation console purchase since 2001. Ill still keep my xbox but screw this guy

 

[DForce]

Yep, it just highlights even more that the topic title is not something in the interview at all and a heavily skewed statement to give off a whole different message.

Thread title is embarrassing. Did some of y'all skip elementary school or something? That's not at all what he said and what he said he's right about. This place is a mess.

"We're not in the business of out-consoling Sony or out-consoling Nintendo. There really isn't a great solution or win for us. I know that will upset a ton of people, but it's just the truth of the matter is that when you're third place in the console marketplace and the top two players are as strong as they are and have in certain cases very, very just discrete focus on doing deals and other things that will kind of make being Xbox hard for us as a team. That's on Us and not anybody else."

"I see the commentary that if you just build great games everything will turn around. It’s just not true that if we go off and build great games all of a sudden you’re going to see console share shift in some dramatic way. We lost the worst generation to lose in the Xbox One generation, where everybody built their digital library of games. We want our Xbox community to feel awesome, but this idea that if we just focused more on great games on our console that somehow we’re going to win the console race doesn’t really lay into the reality of most people. There is no world where Starfield is an 11 out of 10 and people start selling their PS5s, that’s not going to happen."

Phil said they lost the Xbox One generation and said there is no great solution or win for us when it comes to competing against Sony and Nintendo.

That very much sounds like Phil is admitting defeat against Sony and Nintendo in the console space.

This is a very different mindset from nearly 10 years ago.

“At some level, it is a competition, and I’ve said before I want to win,” he explained. “I’m not going to duck that. I want to win. I want to win this generation, but I want to win more than I want the other guy to lose.” Logically, yes, Microsoft is a business in competition with Sony and Nintendo and yes, you want to have the drive to outperform your rivals. It’s just that every month or so we get a batch of sales figures and the console makers all spin them in to make it sound like they’re “winning.”

Phil Spencer wants the Xbox One to 'win' this generation's console war

www.destructoid.com

They also talked about being more competitive (which also refers to the console space) within the past year while trying to get this ABK deal approved and now things seem to be changing again.

Phil does in fact sound defeated.

 

[FunkMiller]

The same thing he's said before about not being in direct competition with Sony, not that they've 'admitted defeat' like the OP headline implies. Those are two different statements.

Phil literally brought both Sony and Nintendo up and said he can’t compete. My paraphrasing for the title was perfectly in keeping with both the words he said, and the way he said it. Stop deflecting.

 

[Dr_Ifto]

There's always an ulterior motive with quotes like this, so there's two ways to look at what he's saying.

1: He knows MS has plans to shift Microsoft Gaming towards a full 3P publisher model, and shift the Xbox hardware into a PC gaming line of products running Windows

2: He knows MS are planning to fight the CMA's decision and try their damnedest to continue this publisher acquisition strategy to "compete"

Yes on the surface Phil's words are rather honest because no one amazing game or series of them will help Xbox gain back big market share from a competitor who's releasing just as many if not more great, amazing games at the exact same time, and has a much better track record to boot. But, and maybe I'm reading too much into it, this also seems like a coded statement for "Can't you see why we need this acquisition? Making games with what we have won't let us "compete" on its own.".

But again it could also be him pointing towards (1), which I think is looking like an increasingly favorable proposition for Microsoft's gaming division, for a lot of reasons. It would upset the console warriors who want the 360 days back, who want so badly for PS to be toppled by Xbox, but the reality is Xbox is at a crossroads where the only way they can really do that (in MS's eyes) is through a consolidation strategy that's being rightfully scrutinized and closed in on. So if they can't rely on that, and they feel what they have isn't enough to compete (it is, and would be if management at the top were stronger, IMO), and Xbox profits aren't looking so hot...why not just change up the business model into something that would actually work?

This comment of his from that interview is very telling one way or another beyond just the "We can't catch PlayStation!" statement it wants to make.

I got that as well from the interview, but you dont come out and say what he said. It turns off buyers. Who wants to buy into that ecosystem? Who wants to get gamepass later if they know they make shit products for it?

 

[Metnut]

Phil saying that he doesn’t think great games will help is the most disturbing thing I’ve heard in a while.

Hey Phil, how about you try the great game strategy for once? Everything else you’ve tried hasn’t worked!

 

[KXVXII9X]

Well something I've argued before and just been laughed at is that we passed the time when you can just catch up. How long do you think it would take XBG Studios to get to the level of TLOU2 graphically? The big advantage that Nintendo has is that they have continuity of staff and studios dating back to the 1970s. They all still work there and their development culture was never interrupted. Sony has that to a lesser extent (20 years less) but still plenty of continuity. Sucker Punch wasn't amazing. But they got to make multiple trilogies of games that were AA games, well liked but no ground breaking. They got better at finishing projects and scaling up over a long period of time when you could put out a trilogy in 5 years. Now 1 game takes 6 years if you're good. How does a new studio catch up in experience when a trilogy would take 18 years? They literally can't. This is why everyone is pursuing acquisitions, because now it is a finite resource that can't be easily recreated.

If people are fine with Xbox making more AA style games and slowly getting better, then it makes sense. I'm fine with that, but the vast majority of people aren't.

This is a very realistic take and I mainly agree. I was always okay with them putting out strong AA games and growing their studios organically. This site knows how enthusiastic and in love I was with Hi-Fi Rush. Both Ori games and Psychonauts 2 are also great as well as Obsidian. I think Xbox should have pushed these a lot harder. I don't even think they did much marketing with Ori and the Will of the Wisp which was a damn shame. I do think two generations so far with very little strong AAA output is still a big issue.

 

[killatopak]

This is something I DO NOT want to hear as someone who will be buying Starfield day one.

 

[Topher]

The same thing he's said before about not being in direct competition with Sony, not that they've 'admitted defeat' like the OP headline implies. Those are two different statements.

You are ignoring a ton of shit that he said. He said there isn't a "solution or win" as far as "out-consoling" Sony or Nintendo and that led into this absurd whine that building great games isn't going to change their market share. That's admitting defeat.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

.......Lift the emulation ban, it'll help

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I’m really conflicted if we should be excited or depressed for the upcoming game showcase on Xbox

Phil has been saying for a decade how exciting each year is. However, he was very reserved in this interview

It may just be that Phil doesn’t understand what a good game or showcase actually is I honestly am starting to think that’s the case. Redfall was his mic drop reveal two years ago.

But if he’s already trying to downplay the hype, maybe he’s just clueless and actually does have great content to show and just doesn’t know it?

A showcase that featured 4-6 Hi Fi Rush quality reveals would beat anything they’ve done this past decade

 

[Bragr]

I'm sorry what?

You have

Halo
Gears
Forza
Elder scroll
Fallout
Starfield
Doom
Fucking cod
All the blizzard stuff (you know, small stuff like warcraft, starcraft, overwatch, diablo etc.)



You have more stuff than sony and N combined dude, it is not sony or N faults if they fumbled halo and gears and you need time for the game from the new studios like fable, hellblade 2 etc.

All of those are on PC. Xbox has stepped away from console exclusives completely.

And why are you including franchises from the potential Activision deal lol.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Full of shit. If you had a string of great games, the market share WOULD change. A year or two of solid hits.

 

[FrankWza]

Phil saying that he doesn’t think great games will help is the most disturbing thing I’ve heard in a while.

Hey Phil, how about you try the great game strategy for once? Everything else you’ve tried hasn’t worked!

He doesn't think Them making great games will work or it's too hard. So we'll just buy everything. Here, have some Redfall.

 

[Thabass]

I see the commentary that if you just build great games everything will turn around. It’s just not true that if we go off and build great games all of a sudden you’re going to see console share shift in some dramatic way.

Uhh, Sony did this with the PS3 and then with the PS4.

Throwing in the towel much?

 

[BennyBlanco]

He makes a good point about last gen being the worst one to lose because people built big digital libraries that carried over. I haven’t owned an Xbox in years but I hope they stick around next gen. Sony running unopposed in the console space would be a disaster.

 

[RAIDEN1]

For me personally I am thankful that we get the extensive catalogue we do get to play some great backward compatibility games....something Sony doesn't believe in considering some of their titles from the PS1-3 era haven't been bettered to this day....had it not been for that ability and Gamepass I probably would have ended up buying a PS5....but even to this day since its release I don't regret not purchasing the PS5...

 

[TheTony316]

Never expected him to say this. I thought he would pull his usual PR line and damage control.

I think it's time for Microsoft to pull a Sega and go third party.

Now watch idiots like Crapgamer trying to spin this into a positive.

 

[feynoob]

You are ignoring a ton of shit that he said. He said there isn't a "solution or win" as far as "out-consoling" Sony or Nintendo and that led into this absurd whine that building great games isn't going to change their market share. That's admitting defeat.

It's accepting reality.
Both these companies have Asia and Europe locked. Have history compared to Xbox. Have SP games that people are interested.

Xbox on other hand have MP games, which are outdated in current market and 2 racing Sims. They failed to build history with OG Xbox and X360 in terms of SP games.

All this could have been prevented, had MS invested in their first party studios during OG Xbox and X360.

No matter what Xbox does, it won't catch up to these guys now. It's better for them to look at other avenue, instead of trying to claim spot 1.

 

[killatopak]

He makes a good point about last gen being the worst one to lose because people built big digital libraries that carried over. I haven’t owned an Xbox in years but I hope they stick around next gen. Sony running unopposed in the console space would be a disaster.

Why do people ignore Nintendo as if they don't exist with zero digital library carry over from the Wii U and 3DS to the Switch. Why do you think people buy their console?

 

[Desprado123]

This will make some xbox fan but AAA games are now selling more on PC than Xbox series.

 

[yurinka]

How does he know a steady stream of great games wouldn`t help?

He didn't say that it wouldn't help.

He said that it that the sentence 'if you just build great games things will turn around' is not true, that wouldn't all of a sudden make the console share shift in some dramatic way.

And he's right, because as he said this generation people did choose their console dependind on where they did build their catalog in the previous one, and on top of that isn't only the first party games that Sony or Nintendo make and the legacy from previous generations that they have, but also a ton of 3rd party games they have moneyhatted out of Xbox.

Also, all their games are day one on PC. Which means people doesn't need to buy a console to play them. In fact, they don't need even to buy the games on PC because they play them on GP -even in mobile-, and a new user can get a GP trial for almost free.

 

[RedC]

In other words, he just wants to play takeaway because he lost generation after generation and was consistently out maneuvered by PS and Nintendo. And now, instead of making games and creating and cultivating studios he wants to buy up publishers and IPs. I feel like someone has said that before. That's not what I would classify as an idea.

Acquisitions should not be childishly viewed as takeaways but as investments in strengthening their vision. Not to mention they are not simply competing with Sony or Nintendo in the videogame market but also tech giants like Google, Apple, and Facebook.

Xbox isn't doing just one thing. They're building studios, supporting and expanding existing studios, as well as acquiring studios. No different than their vision in the videogame market as they expand into, console, PC, mobile, and cloud.

 

[feynoob]

Never expected him to say this. I thought he would pull his usual PR line and damage control.

I think it's time for Microsoft to pull a Sega and go third party.

If you want to handle Song PS3, you are welcome.

Xbox going 3rd party is bad for everyone. Even for Nintendo fans.

 

[Nitty_Grimes]

Honest question - has Phil taken too much on? Should he go / resign / step down?

 

[FunkMiller]

Full of shit. If you had a string of great games, the market share WOULD change. A year or two of solid hits.

There’s absolutely no evidence to suggest that making the best exclusive games for your console is the way to win a console generation...

Except for every single other console generation.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

He makes a good point about last gen being the worst one to lose because people built big digital libraries that carried over. I haven’t owned an Xbox in years but I hope they stick around next gen. Sony running unopposed in the console space would be a disaster.

Nintendo didn’t carry digital libraries over via backwards compatibility , they repackaged certain games to sell at retail and on the digital store.

 

[Jigsaah]

No matter what, it's always going to boil down to playing great games. They don't necessarily have to be AAA bloclkbuster titles every rip, but there is a level of quality and passion that gamers should expect from first party experiences.

Look at Sony...I mean come on, let's be real....they're assholes for the most part. Jim's an asshole, eh, Shuhei is cool...but in general, Sony is cutthroat as fuck, but you know what. They release some banger experiences and people suck that shit up like a cat who just found a whole bottle of spilled cream.

$70? Bitch Please, hurt me more.

Gotta pay for next gen upgrades? Oooh Daddy, can I have another?

Crossplay-Tax? Who da fuck remembers that kinda shit when Kratos is bitchslapping Valkeries like it's his job.

Make great games and you'll be surprised how much people will give a pass to.

 

[Kacho]

Ultimately, if you create an expectation for customers that they can expect quality games on the regular, you will improve your position in the market. It's really that simple.

 

[Topher]

This is something I DO NOT want to hear as someone who will be buying Starfield day one.

Not something I want to hear from someone who sold me a $500 console with the promise of great games either. His goal should not be to make PS5 owners sell their consoles. His goal should be to make gamers buy Xbox. Now he is doing the opposite and making Xbox customers like me think I made a mistake.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

He is basically admitting that the only solution is to acquire and take away from SONY to be relavant in console space.

That is one of two implications, I agree. But it could also be them hinting towards a big shift with the Xbox business model. Taking XGS & Zenimax studios fully multiplat, focusing on the mobile storefront, moving Xbox hardware to the Surface division and developing Xbox-style NUC mini-PC devices at scale, full Windows support by default, good profit margins on the hardware, etc.

They might be waiting to see how Starfield and a couple other games perform critically & commercially with their current strategy before going for such a change. But if they make that change, it would be within the next 12 - 24 months. How things go with ABK will also influence such a decision.

 

[Robins]

I mean, content is king.

Sony spent the entire PS3 generation rectifying their first party output. When PS4 launched that investment paid off.

 

[GustavoLT]

reboot the branding!

stop calling stupid names
one console model only (4-5 year cicle)
stop buying studios and start investing in making games
cancel this Activision deal once for all
give the trinity (halo/gears/forza) a "playstation quality" treatment
singleplayer experiences (market is full of multiplayer shi*)

 

[Sorcerer]

Noted...

I think he is trying to say "I love games, I love what I do" but saying you get paid too much is not the best way to do it. Your bosses will scrutnize you and reevaluate you, and people jealous or underneath your status in life will just hate you.