Support NeoGAF

[Dr. Suchong]

What will Phils next business venture be?
A Supermarket without food?...

 

[flying_sq]

Decent PR stuff, but hey I was shocked he mentioned AOE2 on Xbox having more players right now that Hi Fi Rush

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

I appreciate his honesty but dude needs to take some pride in his work. Just because they can’t win a console war doesn’t mean they shouldn’t bother releasing great games. Not winning a console war doesn’t give them the right to put out garbage like Redfall. They need to respect their customers’ intelligence. The people defending garbage like Redfall are the problem here.

Phil is basically admitting defeat and saying the blame for Redfall flopping falls on him and his team and people should stop defending horseshit games and demand better. Phil needs to release better games even if they can never win a console war. It’s not about the console war, it’s about respecting the art-form and respecting your customers when you release a great game worth their money.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

It’s clear this is a very different Xbox division than from 2001 thru 2011. The attitude and focus is too broad, and without a solid vision they will continue to flounder.

Thru the beginning of the Xbox all the way thru 360 their focus was on games and it showed. Despite having obvious gaps in their lineup it was clear they wanted a quality line-up of games you could only get on Xbox. From launching with the likes of Halo, Dead or Alive 3, and PGR. To securing games like Ninja Gaiden, Gunvalkyrie, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Yakuza Missions, JSRF, Shenmue II, Morrowind, Dead to Rights, Otogi, Splinter Cell, and others. The original Xbox had a very solid backing of 3rd party games that were either exclusive, timed exclusive, or just were made for Xbox in mind and showed. On top of this Microsoft created juggernauts like Halo 2 and Fable.

This continued into the 360 generation with Dead or Alive 4, Call of Duty, Ninja Gaiden II, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Oblivion, Condemned, and Resident Evil 5. Though this was this generation had a lot ending up on PS3, many games showed they had the 360 in mind. Microsoft continued to enhance their first party, with Gears of War and Forza. Halo 3 was mind blowingly good, Fable 2 was a smash hit (despite not being as good as its predecessor. Perfect Dark Zero despite its messy quality was nonetheless a game people wanted in the beginning. They had variety.

But it seems when Bungie left, MS has been in a rut since. Xbox One was not a bad console, but it lacked the splash of the other 2. It’s biggest saving grace came in GamePass and the revisions which lead to a beautiful feature of somewhat curating the past console’s line ups.

Series Consoles have all the pieces except the biggest one, the games. While GamePass is a strong feature, and backwards compatibility upgrades have never been better, where is the line-up? When they decided to have everything day one with PC, Xbox lost its identity. GamePass is now unfortunately the primary focus, and the console is a secondary.

Without Activision balloning up the GamePass library, Microsoft is left in a position they have tried to ignore for almost 2 generations. What does Xbox have that other platforms don’t? What is the purpose of buying an Xbox if everything is on PC? They backed themselves into this corner, now and have bought up multiple studios. I sincerely hope not just for console gamers, but for all those people working for this company that there is a vision for having a quality library.

Because these things take time, and they have more than enough to create something akin to the 360 era, or even OG Xbox era. To put all your eggs in a basket and hope 1 game saves the day is foolish, and he’s right about that. Starfield will not save Xbox alone.

But look at Nintendo. The Switch launched with 3 games, Zelda started the spark despite being on 2 consoles. Mario Kart and Splatoon followed, with Mario Odyssey and Xenoblade 2 finishing. There was more sprinkled in thru out, but 2017 was a very carefully put together year that bought Nintendo some time to release more new games later in 2018. It’s the solid continuation of games that creates the fire. You need a big one to start a spark, and they should be looking at Starfield to do that if they had a road map or game plan to follow after.

We will really see where Microsoft stands, the months after Starfield.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

This maybe sets a new record for the amount of spin and doom people put on things Phil says. He literally says the console will always be the focus, they still intend to provide the best games possible. Somehow his (true) admission that Sony and Nintendo have too strong of a foot hold in the industry for MS to make some miracle recovery and win the sales war is being twisted into the idea that they are giving up competing or making good games.

He didn’t say consistently good games wasn’t their goal or that it wouldn’t help sales. He said it wouldn’t make a dramatic shift in market share, and he is right.

I doubt he has any worries about being fired. The division still makes profits. But if FM and Starfield both launch to poor reception and are half baked, then some big heads need to roll.

 

[FrankWza]

Acquisitions should not be childishly viewed as takeaways but as investments in strengthening their vision

Right, vision. This brilliant idea came to him in a dream. Let's use Microsoft's money to buy everything. How inspired

They're building studios, supporting and expanding existing studios, as well as acquiring studios.

Where's the games he's looking for then? How did redfall release to these reviews? They're an already established studio with more than a few acclaimed games under their belt.

 

[hyperbertha]

Great games aren't enough. More live service and gamepass shovelware is needed.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Oh Phil.... Just stfu. Always talks to much and end up with tons of construed statements on forums lol

Stfu and get on that mountain of studios to start pumping out content.

 

[March Climber]

What makes you think everyone wants to game on PC?

I think both Xbox and Sony console owners should eventually be worried about either Steam Deck Gen 2 or Gen 3. Steam Deck is now the 4th console and it has access to the libraries of both. Right now it’s a tiny worry, but it will grow into a monster years from now.

 

[reksveks]

What is the definition of 'dramatically'?

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

How disappointing...

Nintendo came back from the Wii U Phil. Yes, Nintendo has always been somewhat apart, but if you have a good hardware and you make GREAT GAMES, you can compete.

You gave me no reason to buy an XSX so far, where are the great exclusives games like in the awesome Xbox 360 Era ? Where ?!

I don't give a shit about games pass and your cloud computing, I want to own my things.

 

[Evil Calvin]

Phil's Don Mattrick moment.



Although, arguably this is worse.

Props to Geoff for the follow up question " So that's your message? Stay with 360 if you don't have connectivity?"

 

[gaming_again]

W
T
F

He has to lose his job over this, surely?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Nintendo didn’t carry digital libraries over via backwards compatibility , they repackaged certain games to sell at retail and on the digital store.

Nintendo’s situation is different. They made a handheld hybrid and completely own the JP market. They have the most popular evergreen exclusives and control the most profitable IP in the world, Pokemon. Also very popular console for young kids. You arent gonna play old assasins creeds or CODs on a switch.

 

[Sanepar]

This maybe sets a new record for the amount of spin and doom people put on things Phil says. He literally says the console will always be the focus, they still intend to provide the best games possible. Somehow his (true) admission that Sony and Nintendo have too strong of a foot hold in the industry for MS to make some miracle recovery and win the sales war is being twisted into the idea that they are giving up competing or making good games.

He didn’t say consistently good games wasn’t their goal or that it wouldn’t help sales. He said it wouldn’t make a dramatic shift in market share, and he is right.

I doubt he has any worries about being fired. The division still makes profits. But if FM and Starfield both launch to poor reception and are half baked, then some big heads need to roll.

With people like u defending this guy. He will always have a safe pass and Xbox will be on this situation forever.

 

[N30RYU]

Honest question - has Phil taken too much on? Should he go / resign / step down?

 

[Deerock71]

Making great games is exactly what they need to do.

 

[shaddam]

Seriously, how much is he being paid to gobble the goo?

Free socks if he is an xbox ambassador

 

[GymWolf]

All of those are on PC. Xbox has stepped away from console exclusives completely.

And why are you including franchises from the potential Activision deal lol.

Not everyone play on pc, plenty of people who would buy a console to play these games if the entries are good enough.

I'm not up to date with the deal, i thought it was almost done.

 

[N30RYU]

Seriously, how much is he being paid to gobble the goo?

Just some gamming t-shirts

 

[feynoob]

W
T
F

He has to lose his job over this, surely?

He had enough.
He is looking at his exist right now.

He is reminding me of this quote.

 

[Braag]

I think both Xbox and Sony console owners should eventually be worried about either Steam Deck Gen 2 or Gen 3. Steam Deck is now the 4th console and it has access to the libraries of both. Right now it’s a tiny worry, but it will grow into a monster years from now.

This is where we go back to digital libraries which Phil mentioned in his interview with Xcast. Steam deck is handheld which immediately makes it more niche. Also it mainly locks you into Steam (there are workarounds) so again, the chances of someone with a ton of games on PS suddenly shifting to go full on with Steam Deck is very small.

 

[StealthGoblin]

This makes me feel like the CMA read Microsoft’s intentions perfectly well.

Console focus was a red herring and it’s all about subs and cloud.

Maybe that’s why Microsoft’s PR after the CMA block was childish and embarrassing - they’d been sussed.

 

[Heisenberg007]

He is not in left field when he points out that the digital libraries we all started assembling last generation gave our existing platform(s) a leg up on keeping us in their ecosystem(s). But it was nothing more than an advantage. It was not the beginning and end, and if Halo (or anything really) hit the ground in proper shape in 2020 the advantage would have been neutralized.

Second, the claim they weren't trying to win the console sales race reeks of BS. They released the lowest common denominator just for console sales. They literally spent billions of dollars on a publisher, and then cancelled all plans to release certain games on the biggest install base, to sell consoles.

Now for the fun part. What the hell was the intended purpose of this interview? Why did the top guy in MS gaming go out and essentially claim defeat at this juncture in terms of console market share? Are we really to believe it was off the cuff because he's just like one of us and likes talking video games? Or do we believe a trillion dollar entity plans virtually all of their messaging, especially in times of crisis?

Some might say the answer to that is they are throwing up another hail mary pass to the CMA. I won't dismiss that, but it feels more like consumer conditioning to me. As in getting people in a better state to accept some future news.

Spot on.

Absolutely, it's bullshit, and some people are eating up.

If they believed that consoles sales are not important or that chasing the win in the console sales market was futile, why was Nutella claiming XBS wins just 12 months ago?



And why did Microsoft launch 2 consoles this gen to cover both price points and sandwich the PS5?

And why did Phil Spencer said that they feel confident in their games lineup and hardware advantages against the PS5?

Phil Spencer: No Worry After PS5 Reveal, Feels Good About Xbox Series X Hardware Advantages And Lineup

gamingbolt.com

And why did they announce Bethesda's acquisition a day before Xbox Series X|S preordered went live?

The plan was always to defeat Sony in console sales. Phil Spencer just realized that he failed, threw the towel, and blamed Don Mattrick once again for losing the last generation and claiming that's the big reason why they couldn't succeed in this generation.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Nintendo’s situation is different. They made a handheld hybrid and completely own the JP market. They have the most popular evergreen exclusives and control the most profitable IP in the world, Pokemon. Also very popular console for young kids. You arent gonna play old assasins creeds or CODs on a switch.

I know but Spencer brought them into the conversation.

I think he forgets there are many people who will start gaming this or the next generation , make Xbox their first choice to carry digital library over future generations. They don’t shut up about a digital rental service so you would want to keep people and attract new ones going forward

 

[Demon2blades]

This maybe sets a new record for the amount of spin and doom people put on things Phil says. He literally says the console will always be the focus, they still intend to provide the best games possible. Somehow his (true) admission that Sony and Nintendo have too strong of a foot hold in the industry for MS to make some miracle recovery and win the sales war is being twisted into the idea that they are giving up competing or making good games.

He didn’t say consistently good games wasn’t their goal or that it wouldn’t help sales. He said it wouldn’t make a dramatic shift in market share, and he is right.

I doubt he has any worries about being fired. The division still makes profits. But if FM and Starfield both launch to poor reception and are half baked, then some big heads need to roll.

How does he know if releasing consistently good games wouldn't garner market share though when he hasn't done that while being boss of Xbox ?
Sony did it in the PS3 era while ms was doing all the deals and had all the advertising for the biggest games and came out fine , they didn't need to buy the biggest gaming ip to compete with ms .

 

[K2D]

WHAT DID I BUY A SERIES X FOR..?

About time this dude takes his hat and leaves!

 

[feynoob]

This makes me feel like the CMA read Microsoft’s intentions perfectly well.

Console focus was a red herring and it’s all about subs and cloud.

Maybe that’s why Microsoft’s PR after the CMA block was childish and embarrassing - they’d been sussed.

Considering the future will be controller and internet, that was their intention.
Gain as much control as you can on cloud gaming.

 

[touchfuzzy]

Previous nintendo console sold 13 million units. Solidly third place.

Just saying.

And it's not the first time, they've gone from worst to first twice in the last 20 years!

 

[Desprado123]

The same thing he's said before about not being in direct competition with Sony, not that they've 'admitted defeat' like the OP headline implies. Those are two different statements.

You are too emotional man. No Management will directly say that they are defeated. It is a acceptance of defeat.

More worse than this was that he said there is no quality check assurance of their games, there is no communication with the management and if you feel that game is ready we will not check it and we trust you, he also said that every studio are there own when they are hired by MS and no major studio or other MS studio is going to come help them with the game development. He also indirectly said that we are not invested in single player story base games like Nintendo or Sony, so our game is more diverse and for other audience. In short, he says that they are not competing with Sony or Nintendo.

 

[Mossybrew]

See guys, they're just a scrappy underdog, struggling in third place, it would be perfectly fair to the market to let them acquire Activision Blizzard!

 

[Aaron Olive]

Figured this should probably have its own thread, given the implications of what Spencer is saying.

Timestamped video from Kinda Funny Xcast:




Here, Spencer basically says there's no way the Xbox can compete with Sony and Nintendo, and then goes on to say that making great games wouldn't help Xbox compete.

I find this attitude utterly baffling, and I think we're now at the point where this dude needs to step away.

Whole quote here, provided by Heisenberg007 :

Well it’s time for your ass to go then you just there to collect a paycheck.

“Phil- I don’t know what I’m doing or why they keep me here but imma keep collecting them checks into the quicksand.”

 

[feynoob]

And it's not the first time, they've gone from worst to first twice in the last 20 years!

They lost a lot of good games in the process from 3rd party studios.

 

[Sorcerer]

Cmon Guy's. Phil is tired, he can't run from one studio to the next minute to minute to check up on things. He will wear out his sneakers. Its only going to get worse for him once/if he acquires Activison.

Arkane: Tighten up the graphics in level 3. See you in a half an hour.
343: Give me a weapon with real power behind it for Master Chef. See in you at 3
Bestheda: Okay I need you to fix 50 more bugs. See you at 6

 

[azertydu91]

What is the definition of 'dramatically'?

Is said about something dramatical....Damn my dictionary is about as useful as Greenberg.

 

[FrankWza]

Free socks if he is an xbox ambassador

You haven't heard yet?

 

[64bitmodels]

it's a self fufilling prophecy


He admits he can't win against sony and NIntendo because he just doesn't fucking try. He's got a golden parachute at the end of all this and he has no clue what a good game is, same for the rest of Xbox's upper management. Claims to be a 'gamer' and namedrops older franchises to create hope but in reality he's just some old dude who got this job and doesn't know any way on how to go about it besides "let's sell people on sub services"

Xbox will never change so long as he's on top

 

[RGB'D]

Wow. People are dumb or at least not capable of comprehension. If your takeaway from this comment is that Xbox is giving up on trying to make quality games, maybe work on active listening skills.

It was a well thought out point that is true. If XBox releases a GOW/TLOU/Uncharted equivalent, even with critical acclaim, they aren't going to go from 3rd place to 1st place. They can't compete using strictly SONY's business model. Their path is through innovation and different services. People (as incredibly obvious viewing NeoGaf) are entrenched in their preference. If the quarterly quality games into Gamepass improving the cost/benefit ratio starts hitting, then that is a possibility but in terms of tactics for competing, it is self aware to admit that traditional console tactics aren't going to pay that many dividends in improving Xbox's foothold in the market.

 

[shaddam]

You haven't heard yet?

Did he really bought stocks? I thought it was just a meme

 

[Punished Miku]

How disappointing...

Nintendo came back from the Wii U Phil. Yes, Nintendo has always been somewhat apart, but if you have a good hardware and you make GREAT GAMES, you can compete.

You gave me no reason to buy an XSX so far, where are the great exclusives games like in the awesome Xbox 360 Era ? Where ?!

I don't give a shit about games pass and your cloud computing, I want to own my things.

Nintendo gave up on the home console and relied on portable.

Nintendo also had two failed consoles in GameCube and Wii U. Both had some of the best exclusives ever made.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

This maybe sets a new record for the amount of spin and doom people put on things Phil says. He literally says the console will always be the focus, they still intend to provide the best games possible. Somehow his (true) admission that Sony and Nintendo have too strong of a foot hold in the industry for MS to make some miracle recovery and win the sales war is being twisted into the idea that they are giving up competing or making good games.

Don't know who's saying that, but when I read that quote I saw it as a subtle suggestion that perhaps him feeling that way about Sony & Nintendo (and we have seen Microsoft as a whole express this feeling...can you guess where?) is the reason why they may feel publisher acquisitions are a valid option for them to "compete". Obviously he doesn't mention anything about acquisitions in the quote, but we've seen Microsoft use explanations like Sony having too much market share in Japan, too much leverage with 3P publishers on marketing deals etc. as justifications for acquiring ABK with regulators.

Referring to Sony & Nintendo's strong market positions and insinuating just making great games wouldn't be enough to compete is colored in that same language MS used with regulators, at least IMO, whether or not that was Phil's intention with the quote. Which is why I feel said quote could be interpreted as alluding towards the feeling they need acquisitions to catch up to and 'compete' with the likes of Sony & Nintendo's offerings.

He didn’t say consistently good games wasn’t their goal or that it wouldn’t help sales. He said it wouldn’t make a dramatic shift in market share, and he is right.

I doubt he has any worries about being fired. The division still makes profits. But if FM and Starfield both launch to poor reception and are half baked, then some big heads need to roll.

The problem is Xbox division doesn't make great profits; their gaming profits are quite lower than PlayStation's and much lower than Nintendo's, and they haven't made enough to make up for the various debts, sunk costs and investments MS have made into the division since the launch of the OG Xbox. Whereas PlayStation and Nintendo have covered all of that through net profits over the console generations (that even despite PS3 costing Sony all their PS1 & PS2 profits early on).

 

[Katatonic]

How are the narrative police gonna spin this one?

 

[Edmund]

Anyone know how is SenjutsuSage coping? I'm really worried about him.

Can someone close to him tell him not to commit sudoku please?

 

[Nankatsu]

"I see the commentary that if you just build great games everything will turn around. It’s just not true that if we go off and build great games all of a sudden you’re going to see console share shift in some dramatic way."

They should build a wall on their HQ entrance with those exact same words.

 

[64bitmodels]

W
T
F

He has to lose his job over this, surely?

Nadella doesn't give a shit

 

[feynoob]

Wow. People are dumb or at least not capable of comprehension. If your takeaway from this comment is that Xbox is giving up on trying to make quality games, maybe work on active listening skills.

It was a well thought out point that is true. If XBox releases a GOW/TLOU/Uncharted equivalent, even with critical acclaim, they aren't going to go from 3rd place to 1st place. They can't compete using strictly SONY's business model. Their path is through innovation and different services. People (as incredibly obvious viewing NeoGaf) are entrenched in their preference. If the quarterly quality games into Gamepass improving the cost/benefit ratio starts hitting, then that is a possibility but in terms of tactics for competing, it is self aware to admit that traditional console tactics aren't going to pay that many dividends in improving Xbox's foothold in the market.

Xbox has to improve outside of US and UK. That means more 3rd party partnership and not just delivering great games.

MS fucked up badly by sticking with him. They need a new guy at this moment. Phil cant lead Xbox anymore. He had a whole gen and half. His time is done.

The division needs fresh people and new ideas.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

That's an OOOOF.

But maybe it's the light Xbox player base needs to see.

 

[Topher]

What is the definition of 'dramatically'?

I think I get where you are going with this, but let's be clear: he is still downplaying the impact of making great games on the heels of making a shitty game. And he wasn't even asked anything about console wars at all. He was asked about Xbox getting more love such as the home page update, achievements, etc. He went on this console war tirade all on his own. None of this was doing himself any favors.

 

[Unknown?]

How did the PS3/360 generation shift? That at least had something to do with content, right? As Sony kept hammering "core" gamers while MS went off on their Kinect misadventures.

People aren't going to sell their PS5 for Starfield NOW, because PS5 has a lot of games and it is years in. The generation isn't starting today. The big problem for Microsoft is that Halo Infinite was delayed a year and came out in shabby shape. It reviewed well, yes, but we all know that is not the game it should have been. But waht if 343 actually delivered a complete, Halo 3-like package at launch? I would argue that things have gone differently.

Did it shift though? PS3 outsold 360 worldwide 2007, 8, 9. The only year 360 did better was 2010 or 2011 with Kinect mania.

 

[TheGodfather07]

The solution? Go 3rd party and sell games on every platform. Microsoft need to pull the plug on xbox hardware. Its time. Theres no where else to go.