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[Nydius]

I‘m catching up on the pages I missed since last night and I still see people claiming Spencer isn’t conceding. I’ve listened to the whole thing so it’s not like I‘m missing context: He outright said that he doesn’t believe Xbox will out console their competitors even if Xbox makes great games.

How is that NOT admitting defeat? Especially when the history of this industry is full of examples that prove him wrong?

I worked for Gateway from 1997-2003, when they closed the Virginia plant. That was during the heyday of the PC marketing wars between Gateway, Dell, and HP/Compaq. If Ted Waitt or Jeff Weitzen, the two CEOs during my time there, had publicly said something like this (“We’ll never out PC Dell or HP”), I would have been sending out resumes the next day. That is a culture of defeat from the very top and it inevitably permeates all other levels of the company.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Phil basically said we want to do things differently, we want to do it our way!

Fuck your way. Your way sucks and nobody wants it. Even the regulators can see thay your way sucks and is anti competitive! Do it the traditional way! How hard is it? Make a good console with good software! Why is that so hard for you arrogant fuckers!? You want to change the entire market instead?

They want to change the industry rules to their favor.

 

[Sinfulgore]

You still should want to be the top if you actually care about your company. Phil basically throwing the white flag is super beta mentality.

I disagree. Phil is just being realistic, the Xbox will never outsell Playstation consoles just like macOS will never have more market share than Windows. The only people who care about being at the top are fanboys.

 

[lachesis]

The problem is that by the time they got the DC and killer software out, they had already shot themselves in the foot with the Saturn and nobody had faith in them anymore.

Very true - but I also find that also similar (in some ways) situation as current XSX/XSS... The sales momentum, coming from previous gen is quite important.. just like Saturn.

The gap, is not just how bad Xbox One was, but also contrasted by how good PS4 was compared to. If XSX's starting point was -2, PS5s starting point was +2, essentially creating 4 point different to begin with. Even though Xbox One X fueled the enthusiasts with its powerful hardware late in the game last gen, the whole market shifted quite too much to turn around quickly with just a few good games in a short (2yr) period of time. MS has to look into their general strategy and learn from their competition to survive current gen - while slowly pushing their long term goal.

But who am I kidding? It's freaking M$... so I'm not worried whether they'll go belly up. Just disappointed that they cannot deliver like they promised even with all that money. I was hoping for some genuinely good competition between Sony and MS this gen, because competition creates good times for us gamers...

 

[Nydius]

The only people who care about being at the top are fanboys.

… and Microsoft. One doesn’t offer to spend $70 billion to acquire a mega publisher group and all their development assets if they're not trying to be a market leader.

Unless, of course, the reason was never about being a market leader and was, instead, about limiting competition in their favor.

Either way, Phil’s attitude is defeatist and only reinforces that the CMA made the right decision.

 

[aygomyownroad]

Gamepass is great for the games you’ve missed or are unsure about.
But I am seriously considering just moving solely to my PS5 now. My Xbox is usurps mostly for B/C games

 

[ADiTAR]

Very true - but I also find that also similar (in some ways) situation as current XSX/XSS... The sales momentum, coming from previous gen is quite important.. just like Saturn.

Wii coming off the GameCube and Switch coming off the WiiU are an indication that it is possible. That's why I also think the next Nintendo console will have a gimmick, hopefully it's a simple one.

 

[mckmas8808]

Everyone needs to watch Jaffe's take on this interview

Starts at around 18 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/live/LIzDva3fxQQ?feature=share

Again it's the best take I've heard. Jaffe is 100% on point here. And he'd know more than literally anybody.

 

[lachesis]

Wii coming off the GameCube and Switch coming off the WiiU are an indication that it is possible. That's why I also think the next Nintendo console will have a gimmick, hopefully it's a simple one.

Agreed as well, but let's also not forget that Nintendo is the longest mainstream "brand" for gaming consoles/handhelds. They already have such loyal fan base, and they are literally sitting on ton of cash with very little debt. (Their debt vs asset/cash at hand ratio is pretty absurd, last time I checked) - so as a hardware enthusiast... I would love to see some crazy/experimental stuff on next Switch 2 - as long as it does its basic gaming functionality well covered - including a proper D pad!

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Again it's the best take I've heard. Jaffe is 100% on point here. And he'd know more than literally anybody.

What did he say?

 

[mckmas8808]

First statement is rather bland.

Second statement I would go with the quotes in the OP.



There is a disconnect between those two and "at this point not even 11/10 games will move market share". Obviously great games will increase market share but how much is an unknown and it's why I asked what is dramatic.

I think his frustration is more about the console focus of the general gaming discourse.


I do agree that's probably the bigger frustration. The rise of big GAAS that span gens I think is having impacts on the industry that's may be unseen, both on PS and Xbox. Obviously more so on xbox cause of the lack of a "killer app" which again is Xbox's and Phil's responsibility.

GAAS has had zero negative impact on Playstation though. And why should anybody ever believe that focusing on the "console" for our discourse is bad? It's the foundation on all video gaming.

 

[XXL]

Either way, Phil’s attitude is defeatist and only reinforces that the CMA made the right decision.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is from the Xcast interview.

Does this mean that Starfield was behind Redfall in terms of production milestones? But it's releasing only 4 months after Redfall.

Am I reading this correctly, as in this is a big slip/deal and can indicate that Starfield is also likely coming hot? Or am I totally misreading it and this bears no importance?

You're not misreading this at all! Its saying exactly what you see it saying.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

I disagree. Phil is just being realistic, the Xbox will never outsell Playstation consoles just like macOS will never have more market share than Windows. The only people who care about being at the top are fanboys.

You don't invest billions only to be content with 3rd place. That is not how businesses operate.

 

[reksveks]

GAAS has had zero negative impact on Playstation though.

Cause Sony has killer apps. I do think there is also some consumers that are just playing the same fortnite/fifa games that they are used to.

And why should anybody ever believe that focusing on the "console" for our discourse is bad? It's the foundation on all video gaming.

1) i didn't say it was bad. I don't think it is bad but maybe a bit narrow sighted given the size of the total gaming market.
2) imo it's the foundation for certain genre of videos games, not all. It's also really rather subjective and arbitrary.

 

[FrankWza]

He's explaining that it isn't enough, they need to do their own thing to stand up.

They have been. They are the first to introduce 2 different spec systems at launch. They release games on PC day one. The first to include first party games on their sub service day one. It was never going to work and was first guessed by a lot of people. It's just an excuse to point the industry towards consolidation where they buy pubs and IPs

 

[mckmas8808]

I think what a lot of people miss is that first party exclusives and console sales profit just isn't enough for MS. They want netflix of gaming. They want consistent online engagement, not one and done high budget affairs. They want MTX live service money at a large scale. They want constant growth. And they want to own most studios that put out games so they can make use them to make more online live service games, with COD at the forefront.

But why do they want this? They don't need to be the Netflix of gaming.

 

[AGRacing]

Microsoft doing well has ONLY made Sony be better. Anyone crossing their fingers to see them fail is daft beyond help.

Sony has always been my main console since 1995. But I've always made a point to support Xbox. I'm old enough to have been with them at their absolute cockiest and it's pretty easy to draw a lot of parallels to those days.

With an $800 CAD VR2 , a Premium subscription that is loaded with "buyers remorse" afflicted subscribers, every major exclusive being a 3rd person action game with a lesbian in it, their total lack of effort with State of Play presentations (remember the PS4 E3 presentations?!) ....

I'm always wishing for a stronger positioned Xbox.

 

[mckmas8808]

What did he say?

Jaffe ripped Phil a new one. He said so much that I couldn't type it all up if I tried.

- Jaffe was shocked that when MS bought Bethesda\Zenimax that they didn't take control of the development right then and there. Phil said they let Arkane just continue doing what they were doing.
- He said Phil makes why too much money to have "JUST" learned the lessons that he's learning now.
- He talked about Sony's process to greenlighting games and the execs play testing them throughout the whole process.
- Said Phil isn't the right guy for the job. Said that Phil is perfect for marketing overall ideas and a vision. But needs help with the execution side of things.
- He said that he's worried about Phil's mental health.
- And he talked about how scary Shu is when he comes to your office to see your game. I'll time-stamp that here.


Jaffe's explanation of what it's like when Shu walked into your office
Youtube Link

 

[Captain Toad]

Even IF you put out hit after hit, it’s extremely difficult to change public perception because always remember the memes or the failures the most. Especially on the internet.

Could not disagree more.

 

[Gorgon]

Jaffe ripped Phil a new one. He said so much that I couldn't type it all up if I tried.

- Jaffe was shocked that when MS bought Bethesda\Zenimax that they didn't take control of the development right then and there. Phil said they let Arkane just continue doing what they were doing.
- He said Phil makes why too much money to have "JUST" learned the lessons that he's learning now.
- He talked about Sony's process to greenlighting games and the execs play testing them throughout the whole process.
- Said Phil isn't the right guy for the job. Said that Phil is perfect for marketing overall ideas and a vision. But needs help with the execution side of things.
- He said that he's worried about Phil's mental health.
- And he talked about how scary Shu is when he comes to your office to see your game. I'll time-stamp that here.


Jaffe's explanation of what it's like when Shu walked into your office
Youtube Link

Link doesn't work.

 

[jonnyp]

You damn right, a plethora of gaming goodness right at your fingertips, cross-platform, cloud saving, styling, and profiling.

I think we've found one of MS' internal game reviewers....

Oh god, he reproduced.

Poor kid growing up with a cultist.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Jaffe ripped Phil a new one. He said so much that I couldn't type it all up if I tried.

- Jaffe was shocked that when MS bought Bethesda\Zenimax that they didn't take control of the development right then and there. Phil said they let Arkane just continue doing what they were doing.
- He said Phil makes why too much money to have "JUST" learned the lessons that he's learning now.
- He talked about Sony's process to greenlighting games and the execs play testing them throughout the whole process.
- Said Phil isn't the right guy for the job. Said that Phil is perfect for marketing overall ideas and a vision. But needs help with the execution side of things.
- He said that he's worried about Phil's mental health.
- And he talked about how scary Shu is when he comes to your office to see your game. I'll time-stamp that here.


Jaffe's explanation of what it's like when Shu walked into your office
Youtube Link

Sometimes Shu can make mistakes like what he did with Demon Souls. But you need someone that will give an incentive for developers to make good games. That doesn't necessarily mean a person that will enjoy everything that he plays. Just someone that will shut something down if they don't like it.

 

[chromatic9]

Quite a sob story from Phil, perhaps with an appeal in mind over ABK.

MS were going great with the 360, they paid Epic for the Gears Trilogy and was selling 6 million plus, they bought Bioshock and Mass Effect, had exclusive DLC for GTA IV, Tomb Raider Underworld, COD marketing. Xbox was the toast of the US and the gaming media, they seemed savvy in what they bought and people loved Xbox Live. PS3 was a no games meme with Heavenly Sword and Lair, bland no friends/chat poor online joke, so much negativity surrounding the PS3 and $600 but did Sony cry about it in public and say we can't compete with Xbox buying games like Gears Bioshock etc, did they try to buy the huge third party publishers to keep COD Skyrim off of Xbox, no they turned it around with very good games. You need better than Quantum Break.

MS have been poor since the later stages of 360

Back when they were flying in the mid-late 2000s, the even had a strong foot in the door of Europe with a big marketing campaign and pushing GTA IV, then suddenly gave up.

Trying to buy COD is such a low move in my opinion, it's already on your system, has been multiplat for decades. Do something better with 70bn.

 

[jroc74]

Jaffe ripped Phil a new one. He said so much that I couldn't type it all up if I tried.

- Jaffe was shocked that when MS bought Bethesda\Zenimax that they didn't take control of the development right then and there. Phil said they let Arkane just continue doing what they were doing.
- He said Phil makes why too much money to have "JUST" learned the lessons that he's learning now.
- He talked about Sony's process to greenlighting games and the execs play testing them throughout the whole process.
- Said Phil isn't the right guy for the job. Said that Phil is perfect for marketing overall ideas and a vision. But needs help with the execution side of things.
- He said that he's worried about Phil's mental health.
- And he talked about how scary Shu is when he comes to your office to see your game. I'll time-stamp that here.


Jaffe's explanation of what it's like when Shu walked into your office
Youtube Link

Exactly.

Shu whiffed on Demon's Souls...and I heard it wasn't in a great state when he first saw it.

But that description of Shu is not micro managing. That's....managing. Or a part of managing. Or one way to manage.

Its a thin line between being to the point, straight shooter vs being a mean, horrible boss. Constructive criticism, something that some ppl mistake for hating.

"Its not what you say, but how you say it"

So the million dollar question for Xbox....whose the equivalent of Shu there?

 

[U n i o n 0015]

oooh gotta say I think dc failed partially because the game library was not good. As far as heavy hitters, there was soul calibur, code veronica, 2k sports games, and....? A lot of stuff that was a feast for enthusiasts like jsr and f355 and 2d fighters and bangai-o etc. But really sonic adventure was their headliner and that wasn't good.

The problem is that by the time they got the DC and killer software out, they had already shot themselves in the foot with the Saturn and nobody had faith in them anymore.

Stealth DC thread? I'm in.

Working game retail at the time, I can tell you that PS2 hype was probably the biggest Dreamcast killer. Customers didn't really see the point in buying a DC when they knew the PS2 was coming out a year later and came out with a DVD drive (which was a huge benefit at the time).

I also think Sega bet too much on arcade-at-the-home experiences, and consumers from like '95 onwards wanted deeper experiences. Games like Skies of Arcadia were a step in the right direction, but too little too late.

 

[FrankWza]

Microsoft doing well has ONLY made Sony be better. Anyone crossing their fingers to see them fail is daft beyond help.

Sony has always been my main console since 1995. But I've always made a point to support Xbox. I'm old enough to have been with them at their absolute cockiest and it's pretty easy to draw a lot of parallels to those days.

With an $800 CAD VR2 , a Premium subscription that is loaded with "buyers remorse" afflicted subscribers, every major exclusive being a 3rd person action game with a lesbian in it, their total lack of effort with State of Play presentations (remember the PS4 E3 presentations?!) ....

I'm always wishing for a stronger positioned Xbox.

So you want Sony to release a cheaper console option, release games day one on their sub and spend 80 billion dollars on games they were already going to have instead? That's been xbox strategy this gen.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think the same too. either step down or out. depending on EU as well.

The way he said " I am overpaid for my job anyway " and how he is like "Even if we make great games we won't win, and that our only way of being in the market is by doing something else "

and how he pretty much says how Sony is been trying hard for the Xbox not to get games and how hard is it for them, makes you wonder if he is having a fuck it a moment or just gave up. either way, it really doesn't look good on him.

BUTTT. for whats is said or done, this is really the only time I actually got respect for him on what he said. before that Interview, he was just a snake, like sony and any other corp to be honest.

Yeah, he showed his human side and I think he's done. He looks like he's ready to retire.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I‘m catching up on the pages I missed since last night and I still see people claiming Spencer isn’t conceding. I’ve listened to the whole thing so it’s not like I‘m missing context: He outright said that he doesn’t believe Xbox will out console their competitors even if Xbox makes great games.

How is that NOT admitting defeat? Especially when the history of this industry is full of examples that prove him wrong?

I worked for Gateway from 1997-2003, when they closed the Virginia plant. That was during the heyday of the PC marketing wars between Gateway, Dell, and HP/Compaq. If Ted Waitt or Jeff Weitzen, the two CEOs during my time there, had publicly said something like this (“We’ll never out PC Dell or HP”), I would have been sending out resumes the next day. That is a culture of defeat from the very top and it inevitably permeates all other levels of the company.

Its 100% a concession but also him just facing the facts as he even said Xbox lost the worst generation to lose and those who view it differently are just wearing green tinted goggles

Jaffe ripped Phil a new one. He said so much that I couldn't type it all up if I tried.


- He said Phil makes why too much money to have "JUST" learned the lessons that he's learning now.



Jaffe's explanation of what it's like when Shu walked into your office
Youtube Link

People would be shocked at Phil's salary well at least what it was a few years ago and they usually sign contracts so probably still close to the same

 

[XXL]

I think we've found one of MS' internal game reviewers....

Check this guy's ban reasoning.
https://www.neogaf.com/bans/

To the one that banned him

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Check this guy's ban reasoning.
https://www.neogaf.com/bans/

To the one that banned him

 

[Humdinger]

I‘m catching up on the pages I missed since last night and I still see people claiming Spencer isn’t conceding. I’ve listened to the whole thing so it’s not like I‘m missing context: He outright said that he doesn’t believe Xbox will out console their competitors even if Xbox makes great games.

How is that NOT admitting defeat? Especially when the history of this industry is full of examples that prove him wrong?

Well, to play Phil's Advocate for a second, he admits that Xbox is going to remain in third place for console sales -- but third place isn't defeat; it's third place. If they're still profitable, and their customers are happy, then that isn't defeat. That's serving a smaller market.

Also, it has been clear for years that MS does not measure success primarily by console sales. They measure it in terms of GamePass. If Phil isn't measuring success primarily in terms of console sales, then he isn't "admitting defeat" by referencing console sales. He is acknowledging a painful reality, but he is not admitting defeat. His target ambition is somewhere else.

I'm no fan of either Phil or the Xbox, but I think some people are misunderstanding what he's saying (from his perspective).

 

[AGRacing]

So you want Sony to release a cheaper console option, release games day one on their sub and spend 80 billion dollars on games they were already going to have instead? That's been xbox strategy this gen.

Nope. I want Sony to be more like Sony when they slimmed the PS3 down, dropped it's price and launched (and strongly backed) games like like LittleBigPlanet. Or maybe holiday 2001 Sony. You know.... Hungry Sony. Not "just ate 3 Taco Bell big boxes" Sony.

Never ONCE said I want them to BE Microsoft. Although I'd take their backward compatibility strategy over Sony 1000%.

 

[TLZ]

Same lol. Here is mine:

People call us Sony fanboys or what, but we just followed the games. PS4 and PS5 offer better games, so we went there. 360 offered better games at one point, so I had that. If Xbox offers me better games again, I'll buy that.

Brand loyalty is stupid if you're not getting the very thing you need from it.

لا تحرك وحدة التحكم اثناء وجود قرص في العلبة

Great arabic translation there

And take that damn sticker off

 

[Sinfulgore]

… and Microsoft. One doesn’t offer to spend $70 billion to acquire a mega publisher group and all their development assets if they're not trying to be a market leader.

Unless, of course, the reason was never about being a market leader and was, instead, about limiting competition in their favor.

Either way, Phil’s attitude is defeatist and only reinforces that the CMA made the right decision.

I don't think the acquisition has anything to do with Microsoft trying to be the market leader. Activision-Blizzard doesn't make enough games for that and Blizzard is mostly a PC developer already so the benefit of these games being owned by Microsoft isn't as big as people think it is. And this wouldn't limit competition, the reason Call of Duty is so successful now is because it has no real competition. If Call of Duty became exclusive it would force Sony or other third parties to finally make a game to compete with it. Microsoft and Sony aren't even going after the same market and are after different things. Sony wants you to buy their hardware and first-party games, Microsoft just wants you to subscribe to gamepass.

You don't invest billions only to be content with 3rd place. That is not how businesses operate.

Only fanboys think there are "places" especially if you think hardware sales determine each company's place. You don't seem to understand how businesses actually operate. Xbox is just one division within Microsoft, and its only goal is to make money for its parent company.

 

[FrankWza]

.

Nope. I want Sony to be more like Sony when they slimmed the PS3 down, dropped it's price and launched (and strongly backed) games like like LittleBigPlanet. Or maybe holiday 2001 Sony. You know.... Hungry Sony. Not "just ate 3 Taco Bell big boxes" Sony.

Never ONCE said I want them to BE Microsoft. Although I'd take their backward compatibility strategy over Sony 1000%.

Well you're pointing to recent strategy. There were no subs,vr headsets or lower spec launch consoles in 2001.

Microsoft doing well has ONLY made Sony be better. Anyone crossing their fingers to see them fail is daft

$800 CAD VR2 , a Premium subscription that is loaded with "buyers remorse" afflicted subscribers, every major exclusive being a 3rd person action game with a lesbian in it, their total lack of effort with State of Play presentations

 

[kikonawa]

so they stop with xbox consoles

 

[Slikk360]

… and Microsoft. One doesn’t offer to spend $70 billion to acquire a mega publisher group and all their development assets if they're not trying to be a market leader.

Unless, of course, the reason was never about being a market leader and was, instead, about limiting competition in their favor.

Either way, Phil’s attitude is defeatist and only reinforces that the CMA made the right decision.

To add to that why build the world's most powerful console and advertise it as such if your not going to compete if you don't think you can become the market leader or win the current console generation.

 

[wipeout364]

I worked for Gateway from 1997-2003, when they closed the Virginia plant. That was during the heyday of the PC marketing wars between Gateway, Dell, and HP/Compaq. If Ted Waitt or Jeff Weitzen, the two CEOs during my time there, had publicly said something like this (“We’ll never out PC Dell or HP”), I would have been sending out resumes the next day. That is a culture of defeat from the very top and it inevitably permeates all other levels of the company.

Maybe if they had admitted they needed to pivot to a new direction instead of telling themselves they are going to kick Dell’s ass Gateway might still be in business. Not sure how this is a good criticism of Microsoft’s recognition that they need a new strategy and they can’t beat Nintendo and Sony on the terms defined by Sony and Nintendo.

 

[semiconscious]

Quite a sob story from Phil...

i was very touched. came this close to selling my ps5...

 

[hyperbertha]

But why do they want this? They don't need to be the Netflix of gaming.

Because money. Sony levels of profit is chump change for a company like ms.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Because money. Sony levels of profit is chump change for a company like ms.

and how do they achieve that?

 

[DenchDeckard]

Not sure about what games Jim Ryan brought but he definitely ensured the production of the system. Also Sony did buy several devs with him incharge so there's that as well.

I wouldn't dismiss what he's done if I were you. PlayStations hardware and software numbers seem pretty solid IMO.

I thought he became president in like 2019, a year and a half before ps5 launched. He won't have anything to do with the ps5s design or its production or any of the games that have launched on the ps5 so far. I don't think so anyway. Its far too early for that.

Maybe he was involved in negotiations on wafer deals and buying bungie through covid though.

 

[hyperbertha]

and how do they achieve that?

They are banking on gamepass and heavy hitting live service games like cod on gamepass.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Only fanboys think there are "places" especially if you think hardware sales determine each company's place. You don't seem to understand how businesses actually operate. Xbox is just one division within Microsoft, and its only goal is to make money for its parent company.

All three of the big three want to sell the most consoles per generation, it is totally disengenious to believe it does not matter to these companies. Nobody wants to be in third place of a generation.

I wouldn't want to be part of any company who doesn't believe they could be #1 in their field.

 

[bitbydeath]

He’s not “admitting defeat”.

He’s saying Xbox is never going to overtake PlayStation.

 

[Nydius]

I'm no fan of either Phil or the Xbox, but I think some people are misunderstanding what he's saying (from his perspective).

A fair counterpoint, to which I say: Then the very next question the KF interviewers should have asked is this, "If you don't believe you can grow the Xbox hardware business, where do you see the Xbox brand's core competencies in the next five or ten years?"

If Game Pass, that's great; But as Jaffe rightfully points out, even Game Pass requires marquee games to drive people to want to subscribe to it.
If xCloud, well, then he'd inadvertently be confirming the concerns the CMA had about Microsoft's position with regard to Cloud Gaming.

One of my issues with his perspective is it's based on a flawed "either PS5 or Xbox" dichotomy. In the interview he says that even if Starfield was great it wouldn't make people sell their PS5s. He's right, of course, as I can't think of a single time where I sold a console mid generation just to buy the competitor's console instead. But I have bought those consoles for games. For example, if I only owned a PS5 and Starfield turned out to be a "11/10" experience, I'd sure as shit go out and buy a Series S or Series X in addition to the PS5 I already owned.

The notion that making great games won't shift the needle is very defeatist.
Maybe they won't overtake Sony, but they can sure as shit close the gap.
People who have no interest in Xbox might end up buying one for the right "great game".

Besides, I also tend to agree with S Slikk360 's post above: You don't spend millions on marketing -- including repeatedly saying things like "The World's Most Powerful Console™" -- if you're not interested in console sales numbers.

Maybe if they had admitted they needed to pivot to a new direction instead of telling themselves they are going to kick Dell’s ass Gateway might still be in business.

For a while Gateway did outperform Dell both in sales and customer service metrics. You know when that went to shit? When Waitt and senior management decided to try to pivot directions from being a PC sales company to an "information and services" company in 1999/2000. When they stopped focusing on making quality PCs with quality support and started peddling crap like Gateway.net and opening retail stores. And then the dot-com bust happened, Waitt stepped down, Weitzen started a PR and price war with Dell that was unsustainable, and then the company made a series of failed acquisitions trying to -- gasp -- get back to the business of making quality PCs. But it was too late. They got sidetracked by too many other irrelevant projects.


But none of this is relevant. The point I made remains: If either of the CEOs had stood up and said "we can't out perform our competitors" when I was there during the height of the PC market battle, I would have been looking for a new job the next day. Because if your CEO concedes defeat like that publicly on the heels of underperforming for several years, it poisons the entire company.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I thought he became president in like 2019, a year and a half before ps5 launched. He won't have anything to do with the ps5s design or its production or any of the games that have launched on the ps5 so far. I don't think so anyway. Its far too early for that.

Maybe he was involved in negotiations on wafer deals and buying bungie through covid though.

Well supply did improve all of a sudden with him in charge. I wouldn't be surprised if he pushed it since he wanted to get those numbers. Saying that he didn't do anything especially after being in the company for so many years isn't correct.

 

[Kacho]

 

[ToadMan]

If a major, otherwise successful company with an extremely large war chest is completely unable to compete with competition that has less resources, then the problem must inevitably be the people in charge.

I think the warchest is part of the problem. MS aren’t hungry - not to the same extent as a company which depends on gaming revenues. It’s left xbox flacid and unfocused too many paets pulling in different directions. They’re not really a first party anymore - they’ve been saying since xbone times that consoles are just a part of their gaming involvement and the decline in console focus has accelerated with the series.

Also, MS aren’t interested in “normal” gaming profits - they want domination that leads to multiples of ROI. Phil alluded to this many times in this interview - especially at the end saying people won't sell their PS5s even for an 11/10 Starfield... But MS's goal shouldn't be for people to sell their PS5- they just need people to purchase Starfield on a suitable platform. Why is it necessary to "defeat" PS5 and Sony or Nintendo? It's only necessary if your goal is to dominate the market rather than coexist in it.

But MS is failing to dominate, and they don’t understand why. No surprise - MS isn’t a media company, it’s a business software and service company dabbling in a market they’re not equipped for. I think this latter point is why they’re not already third party. If they just wanted to make decent returns from gaming they’d be third party already now, and specifically working with Sony and Nintendo to get the games out there and make solid returns. They're at a tipping point - just a push and they'd be over the edge and fully third party.

But that model doesn’t get them domination of the market. While trying to dominate they cannot be a successful third party either - and here we are with the xbox division succeeding in neither.

The only question is whether MS does eventually dominate with some post-console platform - PC/cloud/mobile - or just end up going third party and perhaps even selling off the parts of gaming that don’t fit for them.

The sooner MS starts collaborating with gaming companies on either (or both) of these outcomes, the sooner Xbox becomes relevant in gaming again.