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[01011001]

PC is a different beast, and generally does not get the same level of optimisation as consoles get.
This game will be hard on RAM and CPU. If you look at the game you can tell it isn't using ultra high textures, or crazy polygon numbers.

One interesting thing is that if Bethesda can get the biggest open world game to run fine on XSS with its RAM, then it makes Balders Gate look inept.

Everything here is still pure speculation. I'll wait till mods are out and PC tests are done. if modders can't get it to 60fps then fine... but if modders get better performance out of it than Elden Ring on console, then locking it to 30fps with no options to unlock was a shitty choice by the devs

 

[DemonGamerTTT]

What year is it again? XD people denying 60 + fps saying that 30 is "artistic vision" or "cinematic vision"... WTFF

 

[genesisblock]

Times have changed. we are in the third year of this generation, about to hit the mid way point and everyone is still making cross gen trash. Those same execs forced talented first party devs to slave away on last gen machines to maximize profits. Are you telling me that the execs prioritized graphics over framerate in Diablo, SF6, RE4, Harry Potter?

What about Spiderman 2? Why didnt execs step in and say hey this game barely looks better than the PS4 game, wtf are you guys doing?

Way to dismantle your own argument. Cross-gen has been a thing since forever since no executive would want to miss the consumer revenue from the previous generation just because they released a new console. I blame studios for making over-exaggerated claims and false promises. Insomniac are never the guys to push the top-end of the system, that is reserved mostly for Guerilla/SSM/ND. If you played their previous games, you'll notice that Resistance 3 looks worse than Resistance 2 even though it has more variety. So, it's not the first time they've disappointed in graphics.

What do they care about is online controversies. its why Phil and Jimbo have both done 180s on several of their bs moves. they dont give a shit about the pushing fidelity anymore. they know their games will sell.

Sell by what quota? We're not talking PS3 level sales requirements anymore. These studios face the axe if they are not performing as expected and Spiderman 2 better sell exceedingly well if they are to justify Sony's purchase on their studio.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Its so weird that games can scale on PC to accommodate different hardware levels, but Starfield can't scale on fixed hardware to accommodate a higher frame rate. Is the hardware of the series x below the minimum requirements of the game? It's not any setting that can be adjusted??

 

[Rykan]

Edit: Saw the poster in question. Completely clueless about game design and I'm not going to waste the effort.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Everything here is still pure speculation. I'll wait till mods are out and PC tests are done. if modders can't get it to 60fps then fine... but if modders get better performance out of it than Elden Ring on console, then locking it to 30fps with no options to unlock was a shitty choice by the devs

Do we know if MS is going to be as friendly to modders as Bethesda were?
MS generally dont like anyone touching their code on anything.

 

[01011001]

Do we know if MS is going to be as friendly to modders as Bethesda were?
MS generally dont like anyone touching their code on anything.

let's hope they are

 

[In Cold Blood]

So marking objects to be interacted with CPU is still reserved data to be called from CPU but until they are, that data should be stored in a table to be accessed from RAM or fast SSD so it looks like an engine problem, one they should've built from the ground up.

The only REAL argument for CPU overhead is the Real Time Global Illumination (RTGI) as light is constantly being tracked across planets, indoors and tracking shadows. Interestingly, none of these 30fps bozos ever considered that possibility. If Bethesda decided that RTGI cannot be disabled in favour of baked lighting then I can believe they have deliberately capped their requirements at to maintain a minimum stable frame rate which is 30fps.

I'm sure that their engine could be revamped to make it far more efficient on CPU than it is.
To do so is a pretty decent sized job, and as Bethesda are slow in getting games out as it is, I don't know if we want to add another 2 years longer before we get Elder Scrolls 6.

 

[Geruda065]

For me input lag at 30fps is a huge problem. When console generation starts 30fps-ing games that console generation is over for me.

 

[alienator]

So, whats the ETA and timeline on the Redfall 60fps patch, which was clearly not a creative choice, and added a sticker to the boxart for it??

i honestly doubt that patch will ever be made.

 

[Vlodril]

Do the gamepass games on pc allow for mods now?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Leave muh game aloooone ! Pathetic

What's happened here is that you assume a commentary on the culture of this thread is someone feeling attacked. This is incorrect.

Have a lovely day.

 

[Sorcerer]

So, whats the ETA and timeline on the Redfall 60fps patch, which was clearly not a creative choice, and added a sticker to the boxart for it??

i honestly doubt that patch will ever be made.

I heard a rumor the entire Redfall team has been moved on to a more ambitious project. Good chance Phil just wants to sweep this one under the rug, 60fps isn't going to bring anyone back to this game. Even the Gamepass number of players are abysmal from what I understand.

 

[amigastar]

Do the gamepass games on pc allow for mods now?

Thats a good question, if gamepass does not allow for mods i will have to buy it sooner or later on Steam.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Do we know if MS is going to be as friendly to modders as Bethesda were?
MS generally dont like anyone touching their code on anything.

I don’t think Microsoft would be that stupid to buy a publisher famous for heavily modded games, and take that appeal away.

They’d be hurting themselves.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Tbh they were always inept as developers. All the featured bugs and robotic animations and, I don't know what they called it, but even for npcs they were a disgrace. Their games are usually being held together with duct tape and the likes.

The only reason I'm hype af for starfield is sci fi. I hope the use stronger glue this time.

Honestly looks like Serenity not sci-fi.

To each their own but "the future is 19th century American mining towns" doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I believe the correct excuse response was "filmic".

These incredibly linear games are "filmic"...
so it's OK to be 30fps.
But your huge open-world space exploration game with branching choices, etc. at 30fps is utter shit and sad joke.

ehhh, i can't even think of a 30fps linear game. No idea what you're talking about.
Starfield looks like PS3 era meh with about as much scope as NMS. We should expect better. They need to ditch this crap engine they're still using.

 

[Tomeru]

Honestly looks like Serenity not sci-fi.

To each their own but "the future is 19th century American mining towns" doesn't make sense to me.

Wdym? It looks pretty contemporary to me.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I don’t think Microsoft would be that stupid to buy a publisher famous for heavily modded games, and take that appeal away.

They’d be hurting themselves.

MS loves 18 month contractors... they love free work even more.

They will not give up the mod scene, because the community has shown they love to fix and vastly improve upon Bethesda games for them.

 

[DaGwaphics]

What year is it again? XD people denying 60 + fps saying that 30 is "artistic vision" or "cinematic vision"... WTFF

Luckily Spencer never said that, nor has anyone else. LOL

They built the game they wanted to make, and at this point it can only run 30fps on the console hardware. They could have removed features/mechanics from the game to get a higher fps, but they made the creative decision to not make those cuts. Disingenuous arguments aside, it's obviously a very common situation. Apparently they also decided to avoid adding that 60fps performance mode that really isn't 60fps and fluctuates wildly.

When you look at games like Jedi Survivor and all the negative criticism that game got for that performance mode, where it was that mode and not the quality mode that garnered the attention (mostly negative), you can see where they might be coming from on that.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Honestly looks like Serenity not sci-fi.

To each their own but "the future is 19th century American mining towns" doesn't make sense to me.

I don't know, do you really think a mining colony built in a hostile environment on another planet/moon would focus a lot on aesthetics or would it be more function over form?

 

[dcx4610]

30fps is a hardware limitation plain and simple. If we could run all games at 120hz with high fidelity we would. Almost every NES game was 60fps. Those that aren’t, is due to horsepower.

People like to bring up film being 24fps and having a 30fps game makes it cinematic. Well, 24fps is also a format limitation and it’s just one of those weird things that we got used to seeing and anything above that looks off putting. With video games, gameplay factors in and 60fps makes a huge impact on controls.

There is not a single game ever made that is better at 30fps vs. 60fps if the graphic fidelity is equal. Spencer is just playing damage control because 4k/60fps is still hard to hit. Just admit it.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

So DF says its running at 1296p upscaled to 4k

 

[DeepEnigma]

So DF says its running at 1296p upscaled to 4k

Give us chiplet stacked equivalent 5800X (or higher) CPU Pro consoles, STAT!

 

[mansoor1980]

i dont believe the 1296p number

 

[DeepEnigma]

i dont believe the 1296p number

They probably received an internal bullet point list from MS/Bethesda. They strangely used the same "creative choice" right off the rip.

 

[JackMcGunns]

That's the dumbest shit I've heard in a long time. Nobody intentionally makes an FPS 30fps if they could make it 60. Bethesda's engine is just garbage, the game is not technically impressive at all. Stop lying, Phil.

This is quite literally what was done for the entire PS4/XBO generation. Games were designed around a 30fps target even though the console was well enough capable of 60fps for certain designs, but that design meant massive compromize because of the Jaguar CPU was a massive bottleneck. When balancing the best possible scenario, it was best to run the game at 30fps because the visual cuts were just too great.

With PS5/XBX going with a Zen 2 CPU, that problem was fixed, there's no longer that massive imbalance where the GPU could muster 60fps, but the CPU couldn't keep up, now we have a powerful CPU and GPU which has allowed for 60fps for most games and even 120fps for a select few, so it's understandable why people are spoiled and expect everything to run 60fps and you could scale back the game's design and achieve that, but if Starfield is anything like Skyrim, we're looking at a 10+ year run, you have to be much more ambitious, the scope of the game is something we have to consider, also the fact that this game will span across multiple hardware, including the Pro consolese and even next gen, I think going with the absolute maximum is the smarter choice, and if you really need 60fps, then go with the PC version or wait for the Pro consoles, but that's just my opinion

Not that hard to understand. 120fps is also a creative choice, it's not like it suddenly dawned on them. OMG! Series X/S is a beast!!! I just propped this game in there at it's magically 120fps. Awesome! leave it like that

 

[oji-san]

We would know for sure when the game is released on PC, and then we can see what a PC with similar hardware like the Series X can do.
Gotham Knights been said it's can't run on PS5/XSX at more then 30fps (So did A Plague Tale Requiem which eventually got a performance mode on consoles), yet my PC with RX 590 and R5 3600 can run GK at 60fps with FSR 2, so it's for sure can run better on current gen consoles. Lets see about Starfield.. not that it will matter anyhow.

 

[Kvally]

So DF says its running at 1296p upscaled to 4k

In "one shot".

 

[SmokedMeat]

MS loves 18 month contractors... they love free work even more.

They will not give up the mod scene, because the community has shown they love to fix and vastly improve upon Bethesda games for them.

Right? Who else is going to fix their games? Lol

 

[recursive]

They increase the complexity with every game.
If you have an open world like Rage 2, most of everything is static. You shoot a garbage bin and all that happens is some generic bullet holes appear on it. Starfield and Bethesda games are on a different level. Every single object is individually made up and reacts to being shot, picked up, moved somewhere else etc. If you are on one planet today, shoot a bin and sent it flying to the otherside of the room, you can come back to that exact same place 6 months later and that bin will be in the exact same place you shot it to when you were last there. It's stuff like that which makes their games so CPU heavy. So yes, they can cut all that back to be like Rage 2 and then get 60fps, but it would not be the open world that they want to create.
It's on another level, and I'm glad they didn't wind back the game.

This has nothing to do with resolution, shadows, lighting etc, it's all CPU.
Making the game 1440P won't give you any real increase in frame rate.

Maybe they can work on a 40fps upgrade performance down the track.

I have to say that if they are using cpu cycles to track the state of a trash bin on another planet you are not currently on the engine is not efficient at all. I would hope there is some culling.

 

[Xenon]

All this concern for Xbox owners frame rate is overwhelming me.

Edit: I'm pretty sure he means going for visual fidelity over frame rate was an artistic choice, which is true and I'm fine with.

 

[ReBurn]

I have to say that if they are using cpu cycles to track the state of a trash bin on another planet you are not currently on the engine is not efficient at all. I would hope there is some culling.

What are you even talking about? It takes CPU cycles to drive the object permanence systems at play along with any other systems running at the same time. It's not just tracking the trash bin on another planet, it's tracking every item in every place on every planet. How do they do that without using part of the CPU budget?

 

[01011001]

Edit: I'm pretty sure he means going for visual fidelity over frame rate was an artistic choice, which is true and I'm fine with.

I'm not

 

[In Cold Blood]

30fps is a hardware limitation plain and simple. If we could run all games at 120hz with high fidelity we would. Almost every NES game was 60fps. Those that aren’t, is due to horsepower.

People like to bring up film being 24fps and having a 30fps game makes it cinematic. Well, 24fps is also a format limitation and it’s just one of those weird things that we got used to seeing and anything above that looks off putting. With video games, gameplay factors in and 60fps makes a huge impact on controls.

There is not a single game ever made that is better at 30fps vs. 60fps if the graphic fidelity is equal. Spencer is just playing damage control because 4k/60fps is still hard to hit. Just admit it.

It's of course a hardware limitation. If the consoles had threadrippers then it would easily hit 60fps.
However, it's still a design choice as well.
They could have chosen to make the world less dynamic and interactive, and made it more static and they could have hit 60fps. So they made a creative choice as well to have it at 30fps and keep the world interactive, instead of the other way around.
Two things can be right at the same time.

 

[Xenon]

I'm not

That's fine, it's your prerogative. But I'm not sure what in the history of gaming makes you think that Bethesda would release a new IP with a larger scale than anything they've done before at 60fps?

 

[Chechack]

Why does everyone give Tears Of The Kingdom a break then? According to reviews and common sentiment it is one of the greatest games ever made. I mainly play on PC at 4k 60+ fps and used my Switch for the first time in years when that game came out. It honestly wasn't that bad and I didn't even notice after a few minutes. I've played a bunch of games at 30fps on my Steam Deck too. It's not ideal but not really a big deal once your eyes get used to it. Fun games are still fun.

I think they mean creative in a sense that they didn't want to launch a 1080p game in 2023 so it could lock to 60. 4k is a marketing term too. Sure only being 30fps is a huge deal on a gaming dedicated message board but many casuals probably won't care as long as it looks good.

Totk wasnt backed by PR like "switch is the most powerful console" ,didnt have PR media boasting their console "output 60hz to 120hz blabla aaron greenberg crap"

Plus TOTK prelaunch didnt come with any sort of PR,they jusy announced "hello theres a zelda sequel" and then launched the game.

 

[adamsapple]

Do we know if MS is going to be as friendly to modders as Bethesda were?
MS generally dont like anyone touching their code on anything.

They don't interfere in Zenimax's projects, see Redfall.

 

[recursive]

What are you even talking about? It takes CPU cycles to drive the object permanence systems at play along with any other systems running at the same time. It's not just tracking the trash bin on another planet, it's tracking every item in every place on every planet. How do they do that without using part of the CPU budget?

What are you talking about? Why should the state be updated continously for an object not currently on the planet you are on? Other planets should have saved states which perform simulation when loaded. That is why there are loading screens......

 

[Painskiller]

Yes ofcourse.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Surely a 60 fps will come down the pipe. They can have another creative choice and do that. I can wait

 

[LRKD]

He's right, it could definitely be 60fps, whether it came down to time, budget, or a lack of software talent to pull it off is anyone's guess. So yeah, it was a 'creative choice' to achieve what they wanted on xbox series x, with compromise, so they wouldn't have to put in the extra work.

 

[Bernardougf]

What year is it again? XD people denying 60 + fps saying that 30 is "artistic vision" or "cinematic vision"... WTFF

The year that xbox is finally releasing a expected goty flagship game at subpar fps ...so... time to defended it at all costs

 

[YeulEmeralda]

What year is it again? XD people denying 60 + fps saying that 30 is "artistic vision" or "cinematic vision"... WTFF

When Horizon Zero Dawn was 30fps everyone knew it was because the PS4 wasn't powerful enough nobody talked about creative vision.

 

[X-Wing]

I see people saying that the frame rate limitation is CPU bound and not GPU bound and this has to do with tracking the position and status of all the created objects at all time... I don't get this. I don't believe that when you leave a planet that there will still be CPU time dedicated to any thread/process tracking anything in there, that will most likely all be swapped from RAM to the SSD and again loaded when you come back to said planet with several status changed based on the calculated amount of time that passed since the last time you were presente - this is also the reason why you have a cutscene that represents the travel - it gives the Xbox time to load/unload and calculate everything it needs to the planet you are arriving. The Xbox Series supposedly also has a massive amount of cache that should be able to quickly load all this from the SSD to make it quickly available to the CPU... Tracking routines of NPCS isn't new, it's been happening for a long time (for instance - Shenmue on the Dreamcast)... Anyone else with a bit of programming knowledge wanna chip in?

 

[Fredrik]

When Horizon Zero Dawn was 30fps everyone knew it was because the PS4 wasn't powerful enough nobody talked about creative vision.

60fps games has always existed, 30fps is always about a creative choice. They try to fit what they want to achieve within the frame budget and if they can’t do it they have to make the choice to scale something back and go with 60 or stay on course and lock it down to 30 and maybe be able to scale something up instead.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

60fps games has always existed, 30fps is always about a creative choice. They try to fit what they want to achieve within the frame budget and if they can’t do it they have to make the choice to scale something back and go with 60 or stay on course and lock it down to 30 and maybe be able to scale something up instead.

Why not just say it's a hardware limitation? Why the word games?

 

[vkbest]

I can’t stop to be surprised how many people defends bad optimization in games for consoles. The last was Plague tale, some months after the game is running at 80fps in the same hardware some people said was not powerful enough to run at constant 40fps because CPU.

so many multi million lazy companies lamers.

 

[darrylgorn]

Just seeing this now but apparently the faces got downgraded and the site claims it's not an artistic choice.

Starfield 2022 vs 2023 Video Graphics Comparison shows noticeable downgrades

YouTube's 'Cycu1' has shared an early graphics video comparison between the 2022 and 2023 demos of Starfield.

www.dsogaming.com

 

[Bernardougf]

[

I see people saying that the frame rate limitation is CPU bound and not GPU bound and this has to do with tracking the position and status of all the created objects at all time... I don't get this. I don't believe that when you leave a planet that there will still be CPU time dedicated to any thread/process tracking anything in there, that will most likely all be swapped from RAM to the SSD and again loaded when you come back to said planet with several status changed based on the calculated amount of time that passed since the last time you were presente - this is also the reason why you have a cutscene that represents the travel - it gives the Xbox time to load/unload and calculate everything it needs to the planet you are arriving. The Xbox Series supposedly also has a massive amount of cache that should be able to quickly load all this from the SSD to make it quickly available to the CPU... Tracking routines of NPCS isn't new, it's been happening for a long time (for instance - Shenmue on the Dreamcast)... Anyone else with a bit of programming knowledge wanna chip in?

The same things where done in past bethesda games with worst cpu .. a lot worst... the its obviously not ONLY cpu bounded... optimization and an old ass engine is holding this game back to better perfomance.. same with fromsoft and that old engine as well

What I dont understand is why not offer the s version on the X .. this version surely can run with better fps and the vrr can take care of the rest ... if not ? Well...is shit optimization all around and the pc version will show it