• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Ahsoka |OT| Ezra's out there somewhere, and it's time to bring him home.

Deanington

Member
I am enjoying this so far. However, I nitpick (bad character trait). Turbo lasers and that quick change Dragon Ball Z/space outfit to defend against three ships was not good. It just ruins intense scenes and crushes any intelligent/interesting outs. When somebody calls for a devastating attack, I didn't expect turbo lasers to be the command. A child thinks of that when they are explaining a drawing. It was like a Power Ranger scene or something. The space battle scenes while Ahsoka was outside of the ship was hard to watch. Defending the ship while in space? The baddies only concentrating on her forward facing stance/limited movement, not other angles on her, or areas of the ship? That was just bad/lazy writing to get them out of an interesting position that the writer put them in. Why have any of that at all if you're going to cheapen the outcome? I don't know, again I am only nit picking and I do like the show overall. The way of the world/SW fan, shit on it instead of expressing what I like I guess?
 
Last edited:

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Btw, is there anything incoming from the High Republic era they seem to be pushing?
There's the Acolyte show which takes place in High Republic but that's going to be awful considering everything I've heard about the director and what she wants.

There's Star Wars Eclipse, a video game that might not see the light of day at all.
 

Mattdaddy

Gold Member
I am enjoying this so far. However, I nitpick (bad character trait). Turbo lasers and that quick change Dragon Ball Z/space outfit to defend against three ships was not good. It just ruins intense scenes and crushes any intelligent/interesting outs. When somebody calls for a devastating attack, I didn't expect turbo lasers to be the command. A child thinks of that when they are explaining a drawing. It was like a Power Ranger scene or something. The space battle scenes while Ahsoka was outside of the ship was hard to watch. Defending the ship while in space? The baddies only concentrating on her forward facing stance/limited movement, not other angles on her, or areas of the ship? That was just bad/lazy writing to get them out of an interesting position that the writer put them in. Why have any of that at all if you're going to cheapen the outcome? I don't know, again I am only nit picking and I do like the show overall. The way of the world/SW fan, shit on it instead expressing what I like I guess?

Man I felt the same way... its been a problem that has plagued almost all of the Disney+ Star Wars content imo. I think Andor is the only thing they've put out that was consistently high quality and lacked an abundance of eyerolling idiocracy.

Its like all these shows have a mixture of badass Star Wars moments versus insanely bad ultra cringe. They are just really inconsistent moment to moment. And then how good the show is overall depends on how that mixture of awesome vs cringe plays out.

IMO:

Andor - best content so far. Mature, intelligent, kinda gritty, well written and thought out, lack of cringe.
Mando 1 & 2 - Pretty awesome for the most part, but scattered elements of cringe. 85% awesome, 15% cringe.
Ashoka - Still early obviously but 70% cool, 30% cringe. Good but could be better. What you described is great example.
Boba Fett - You can cherry pick some very cool moments out of this. But there is a vast abundance of ultra-cringe that takes the whole ship down. The kid biker gang, my god. The general character assassination of Boba. 85% ultra cringe, 15% ultra cool.
Kenobi - Worst of the worst, I cant believe this even got okay'd during production. Some of the Vader scenes were cool I guess like the final battle... but thats it. 99.9% hyper cringe. Youre right, built by kids is the best way to describe it. That Leia chase scene in the woods... how do adult production professionals write that, shoot it, watch it, and then go "yep... send it". Mind blowing. The Vader/Kenobi firewall escape. The "how to get past the parking garage arm" scene. The interrogation with inquisitor lady and Leia. The great escape under the trench coat. The inquisitor showdown with the Hoth speeder (a mirror of what you talked about with Ashoka in space). Just scene after scene was mind-bendingly idiotic.

Mando 3 I havent watched yet so I'll omit, but from what Im hearing sounds like it falls somewhere in between Ashoka and Boba Fett maybe.

Fuck now im worked up lol.

Edit - I would love to be wrong, but I'd bet the fuckin farm Acolyte blows Kenobi out of the water for king of utter trash. Plus whatever that movie is gonna be with the activist documentarian at the helm. Race to the bottom.
 
Last edited:
I am enjoying this so far. However, I nitpick (bad character trait). Turbo lasers and that quick change Dragon Ball Z/space outfit to defend against three ships was not good. It just ruins intense scenes and crushes any intelligent/interesting outs. When somebody calls for a devastating attack, I didn't expect turbo lasers to be the command. A child thinks of that when they are explaining a drawing. It was like a Power Ranger scene or something. The space battle scenes while Ahsoka was outside of the ship was hard to watch. Defending the ship while in space? The baddies only concentrating on her forward facing stance/limited movement, not other angles on her, or areas of the ship? That was just bad/lazy writing to get them out of an interesting position that the writer put them in. Why have any of that at all if you're going to cheapen the outcome? I don't know, again I am only nit picking and I do like the show overall. The way of the world/SW fan, shit on it instead expressing what I like I guess?
It was stupid as hell and a waste of time in a wasted episode.

This entire episode should've been 15 minutes added to the beginning of another episode. Keep the training/character development scenes, then Ahsoka/Sabine get shot down onto the planet by Shin Hati. The dogfight was way too long and boring since there were zero stakes involved. The Ahsoka spacewalk bullshit added nothing - it weakened the competency of the villains in service of smooth-brained SW fans.

Episodes like this remind me Star Wars is just straight up moronic. Nothing matters or makes any sense. Good writing gives audiences the illusion that characters have their own agency in the story - whereas in Star Wars every character is a slave to whatever agency the writers have. Shin Hati is a perfect example - the show has now undermined her twice for no apparent reason at all. She's given two opportunities to shine but lazy, inept writing keeps her as an impotent stooge.

The music continues to deliver and is far and away the best part of the show. Other than that, making audiences wait a week for that episode is insulting.
 

Deanington

Member
Man I felt the same way... its been a problem that has plagued almost all of the Disney+ Star Wars content imo. I think Andor is the only thing they've put out that was consistently high quality and lacked an abundance of eyerolling idiocracy.

Its like all these shows have a mixture of badass Star Wars moments versus insanely bad ultra cringe. They are just really inconsistent moment to moment. And then how good the show is overall depends on how that mixture of awesome vs cringe plays out.

IMO:

Andor - best content so far. Mature, intelligent, kinda gritty, well written and thought out, lack of cringe.
Mando 1 & 2 - Pretty awesome for the most part, but scattered elements of cringe. 85% awesome, 15% cringe.
Ashoka - Still early obviously but 70% cool, 30% cringe. Good but could be better. What you described is great example.
Boba Fett - You can cherry pick some very cool moments out of this. But there is a vast abundance of ultra-cringe that takes the whole ship down. The kid biker gang, my god. The general character assassination of Boba. 85% ultra cringe, 15% ultra cool.
Kenobi - Worst of the worst, I cant believe this even got okay'd during production. Some of the Vader scenes were cool I guess like the final battle... but thats it. 99.9% hyper cringe. Youre right, built by kids is the best way to describe it. That Leia chase scene in the woods... how do adult production professionals write that, shoot it, watch it, and then go "yep... send it". Mind blowing. The Vader/Kenobi firewall escape. The "how to get past the parking garage arm" scene. The interrogation with inquisitor lady and Leia. The great escape under the trench coat. The inquisitor showdown with the Hoth speeder (a mirror of what you talked about with Ashoka in space). Just scene after scene was mind-bendingly idiotic.

Mando 3 I havent watched yet so I'll omit, but from what Im hearing sounds like it falls somewhere in between Ashoka and Boba Fett maybe.

Fuck now im worked up lol.

Edit - I would love to be wrong, but I'd bet the fuckin farm Acolyte blows Kenobi out of the water for king of utter trash. Plus whatever that movie is gonna be with the activist documentarian at the helm. Race to the bottom.

I agree with most of this. Not sure how I would rate based on percentages though. I think Andor and Mando 1&2 is spot on based just on ranking. Kenobi and Fett is so bad, I always looked at them being on equal footing with their cringe and bullshit writing. You make a hell of a point for Kenobi to be the worst though. Hmm, Mando 3 is a hard one to slot. You can say it would fit with Fett and Kenobi, but then it wants to be Andor. Ahsoka, I like. It just haves these bad scenes sprinkled here and there. There hasn't been an episode where it made me hate it yet.

I hope the High/Old Republic stuff doesn't turn out bad. That interests me the most out of anything SW.
 

Mattdaddy

Gold Member
I agree with most of this. Not sure how I would rate based on percentages though. I think Andor and Mando 1&2 is spot on based just on ranking. Kenobi and Fett is so bad, I always looked at them being on equal footing with their cringe and bullshit writing. You make a hell of a point for Kenobi to be the worst though. Hmm, Mando 3 is a hard one to slot. You can say it would fit with Fett and Kenobi, but then it wants to be Andor. Ahsoka, I like. It just haves these bad scenes sprinkled here and there. There hasn't been an episode where it made me hate it yet.

I hope the High/Old Republic stuff doesn't turn out bad. That interests me the most out of anything SW.

Agree, I dont want to let Fett off the hook. Its sucks haha. But I think I could at least pick a few moments out of it that I liked. I enjoyed some of the cameos that were done well. That western showdown sequence. Some of the fight scenes were cool. But yeah overall it was cringe city. And what they did to Boba Fett as a character was just pure blasphemy.

With you on Ashoka, theres been a couple eye rolls but nothing has made me hate it. I really like Ray Stevensons character so far, excited to get him more involved and see what his crew is all about. Other than some of the dumb situations the writers get them into, Im liking their characters.

And yeah the high republic stuff... I hope its good. Thats an era we dont see much of so it would be really cool to explore it. I dunno just not a good feeling.
 
Last edited:

Dural

Member
Wha wha whaaaaaa? Was this "known" before? What....HOW would that even work? Is he a green human, or a tan twi'lek or whatever hera is? I know they teased a similar inter-species kid with a clone trooper in one of the shows but I've always felt that Star Wars kinda delicately tread AROUND any idea that these races could, or would, shag each other and have babies.

He was shown in the final episode of Rebels. Seeing him here makes me think that maybe he will be used in the future, or just an easter egg for fans of Rebels.

 

Yerd

Member
Wha wha whaaaaaa? Was this "known" before? What....HOW would that even work? Is he a green human, or a tan twi'lek or whatever hera is? I know they teased a similar inter-species kid with a clone trooper in one of the shows but I've always felt that Star Wars kinda delicately tread AROUND any idea that these races could, or would, shag each other and have babies.
Hera's father was not green, so I guess they are like fur coats in that they can have different colors. Not sure why he doesn't have at least stunted head phallus.

When you mix Manx cats and any with a tail, the kittens usually have stubs.
 
Last edited:

ManaByte

Gold Member
He was shown in the final episode of Rebels. Seeing him here makes me think that maybe he will be used in the future, or just an easter egg for fans of Rebels.

Someone was piloting the Ghost in TROS.

Star-Wars-9-Final-Battle-Ghost-Ship.jpg
 

Toons

Member
That was a classic Clone Wars style sequence.

For real.

This epsidoe had space politics, lightsaber stuff, force lore, training, a dogfight, and character stuff in 30 minutes. Every single one of these is a hallmark of good star wars content.

Have some of yall just considered that you simply don't like star wars anymore? Turbolasers is literally day one, basic star wars type of stuff.

This franchise is NOT mature or gritty, and it never has been. Not in the OT, not in the PT, and certainly not in the ST. Occasionally it will venture into that territory but that isn't the norm. Phantom menace has "now this is podracing!!" And dancing frog ladies in a club. The OT is full of goofy stuff, even in ESB which is the most "serious" of the films tonally aside from TLJ.

When you guys start rejecting stuff that has been a part of the franchise since day one I seriously wonder where your preferences even lie anymore.

Also that final battle in kenobi was freaking awesome. Plain and simple. Anyone who even slightly enjoyed the prequels should be able to enjoy that. Yes it has floating rocks and magic powers. Welcome to star wars.
 
Last edited:

ManaByte

Gold Member
For real.

This epsidoe had space politics, lightsaber stuff, force lore, training, a dogfight, and character stuff in 30 minutes. Every single one of these is a hallmark of good star wars content.

Have some of yall just considered that you simply don't like star wars anymore? Turbolasers is literally day one, basic star wars type of stuff.

This franchise is NOT mature or gritty, and it never has been. Not in the OT, not in the PT, and certainly not in the ST. Occasionally it will venture into that territory but that isn't the norm. Phantom menace has "now this is podracing!!" And dancing frog ladies in a club. The OT is full of goofy stuff, even in ESB which is the most "serious" of the films tonally aside from TLJ.

When you guys start rejecting stuff that has been a part of the franchise since day one I seriously wonder where your preferences even lie anymore.

Also that final battle in kenobi was freaking awesome. Plain and simple. Anyone who even slightly enjoyed the prequels should be able to enjoy that. Yes it has floating rocks and magic powers. Welcome to star wars.
ford discussion GIF
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
He was shown in the final episode of Rebels. Seeing him here makes me think that maybe he will be used in the future, or just an easter egg for fans of Rebels.

Is being a jedi hereditary? Obviously the Skywalkers, Rey I guess? Seems like the jedi, with their oaths of celibacy would be better off breeding their own replacements if it was a consistent thing that midichlorians or whatever were passed on genetically.
 

Deanington

Member
For real.

This epsidoe had space politics, lightsaber stuff, force lore, training, a dogfight, and character stuff in 30 minutes. Every single one of these is a hallmark of good star wars content.

Have some of yall just considered that you simply don't like star wars anymore? Turbolasers is literally day one, basic star wars type of stuff.

This franchise is NOT mature or gritty, and it never has been. Not in the OT, not in the PT, and certainly not in the ST. Occasionally it will venture into that territory but that isn't the norm. Phantom menace has "now this is podracing!!" And dancing frog ladies in a club. The OT is full of goofy stuff, even in ESB which is the most "serious" of the films tonally aside from TLJ.

When you guys start rejecting stuff that has been a part of the franchise since day one I seriously wonder where your preferences even lie anymore.

Also that final battle in kenobi was freaking awesome. Plain and simple. Anyone who even slightly enjoyed the prequels should be able to enjoy that. Yes it has floating rocks and magic powers. Welcome to star wars.

How come when anybody is critical its must be because we don't like SW? Why does it have to be so black and white? Being critical on some things doesn't cancel the like of the franchise out. The shit that I don't like doesn't mean that I hate the entirety of it all. Some shit just stands out as really bad and cringey to me. Yes I nitpick, so what? Its deserved in my eyes.

Also, I personally am not rejecting stuff that has been a part of the franchise (admittedly I have never heard of the turrets to be called turbolasers, and I have been watching SW since a kid in the 80's. Excluding some of the animated stuff. So must have missed it somewhere). Regardless, I am being critical about the cringe deliveries, shit writing, whacky antics, and shit characters. Deliver this stuff in a better way and it would be judged less. On the flip side of this, even if I shit on some of this stuff, it also doesn't mean that I did not think that there was some good in it. Including the things I dislike the most.
 

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I hope the High/Old Republic stuff doesn't turn out bad. That interests me the most out of anything SW.
It also interests me quite a bit but unfortunately everything I heard about it makes it sound pretty and insufferable.
 
Man I felt the same way... its been a problem that has plagued almost all of the Disney+ Star Wars content imo. I think Andor is the only thing they've put out that was consistently high quality and lacked an abundance of eyerolling idiocracy.

Its like all these shows have a mixture of badass Star Wars moments versus insanely bad ultra cringe. They are just really inconsistent moment to moment. And then how good the show is overall depends on how that mixture of awesome vs cringe plays out.

IMO:

Andor - best content so far. Mature, intelligent, kinda gritty, well written and thought out, lack of cringe.
Mando 1 & 2 - Pretty awesome for the most part, but scattered elements of cringe. 85% awesome, 15% cringe.
Ashoka - Still early obviously but 70% cool, 30% cringe. Good but could be better. What you described is great example.
Boba Fett - You can cherry pick some very cool moments out of this. But there is a vast abundance of ultra-cringe that takes the whole ship down. The kid biker gang, my god. The general character assassination of Boba. 85% ultra cringe, 15% ultra cool.
Kenobi - Worst of the worst, I cant believe this even got okay'd during production. Some of the Vader scenes were cool I guess like the final battle... but thats it. 99.9% hyper cringe. Youre right, built by kids is the best way to describe it. That Leia chase scene in the woods... how do adult production professionals write that, shoot it, watch it, and then go "yep... send it". Mind blowing. The Vader/Kenobi firewall escape. The "how to get past the parking garage arm" scene. The interrogation with inquisitor lady and Leia. The great escape under the trench coat. The inquisitor showdown with the Hoth speeder (a mirror of what you talked about with Ashoka in space). Just scene after scene was mind-bendingly idiotic.

Mando 3 I havent watched yet so I'll omit, but from what Im hearing sounds like it falls somewhere in between Ashoka and Boba Fett maybe.

Fuck now im worked up lol.

Edit - I would love to be wrong, but I'd bet the fuckin farm Acolyte blows Kenobi out of the water for king of utter trash. Plus whatever that movie is gonna be with the activist documentarian at the helm. Race to the bottom.
Just slide Mando 3 right there in between Fett and Kenobi...
 

Mattdaddy

Gold Member
For real.

This epsidoe had space politics, lightsaber stuff, force lore, training, a dogfight, and character stuff in 30 minutes. Every single one of these is a hallmark of good star wars content.

Have some of yall just considered that you simply don't like star wars anymore? Turbolasers is literally day one, basic star wars type of stuff.

This franchise is NOT mature or gritty, and it never has been. Not in the OT, not in the PT, and certainly not in the ST. Occasionally it will venture into that territory but that isn't the norm. Phantom menace has "now this is podracing!!" And dancing frog ladies in a club. The OT is full of goofy stuff, even in ESB which is the most "serious" of the films tonally aside from TLJ.

When you guys start rejecting stuff that has been a part of the franchise since day one I seriously wonder where your preferences even lie anymore.

Also that final battle in kenobi was freaking awesome. Plain and simple. Anyone who even slightly enjoyed the prequels should be able to enjoy that. Yes it has floating rocks and magic powers. Welcome to star wars.

Gritty probably wasn't the right word for me to use. I dont need Saving Private Ryan out there haha.

But that general vibe of the original trilogy, whatever you want to call it. I mean even with Jedi, and the Force, space battles, etc... it was still grounded in reality within the world they built.

You didn't see Luke spacewalking across the top of the millennium falcon deflecting a barrage of high caliber laser blasts from a squadron of tie fighters. I mean my god... Rise of Skywalker had a cavalry charge across the deck of a star destroyer lmao. Like wtf??

To me, thats just jumping the shark territory. But when I think of Star Wars, Im also comparing back to the OT, thats the Star Wars that I grew up with and what kicked the whole thing off. And it never really got that dumb except Ewoks killing stormtroopers.

Like the battles at Hoth and the space battle at Endor, those felt like real badass military battles, but with a Star Wars coat of paint.

If they remade Hoth today, they would probably have some girl run out there in front of the AT-ATs dodging all their laser fire with jukes and flips and back handsprings, she'd scale it and then spray paint over the cockpit. The drivers would be like "Ohh noOooO!" and crash into another AT-AT. She'd fire off a Marvel one-liner.

Im not even saying its not okay to enjoy something like that lol. Im just saying its a very different vibe from OG Star Wars, which is what I like. Andor and Rogue One carry that original style more and I liked those a lot.

I mean think of the escape from the Death Star in A New Hope versus Kenobi. Can you imagine if Han just tucked Leia up under his trench coat and walked out the front door. That literally happened in Kenobi. Thats 3 Stooges. That is dumb and lazy as it gets. Thats bad.

Btw Im not even hating Ashoka, I said I liked it overall. Just pointing out theres some high level cheese that kinda irks me here and there.

But Im well into my 30s now and maybe that shit just aint cool anymore and its not coming back and I need to deal with it. Which is why Im here bitching :)

And yes agree, final battle in Kenobi was cool, I said it was the only good part. But imo the rest of that show is pretty indefensible. When you have 9 year old girl juking hardened mercs like she's fuckin Barry Sanders, cmon youre getting an eyeroll.

Edit - Fucking hell I literally almost typed out "This is starting to feel like a bunch of shit you'd find on the Disney channel." :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: . Well, maybe I found the root cause of my complaints lmao
 
Last edited:
When you guys start rejecting stuff that has been a part of the franchise since day one I seriously wonder where your preferences even lie anymore.
Disney has produced the dumbest "stuff" Star Wars has ever seen by a long shot.

Some people prefer the middle ground between suspension of disbelief and witless absurdity. Hell, last week I was willing to give a pass to yet another lightsaber gutshot survivor. At some point, it's just too much. This week's episode was space Leia levels of cringe.

I also hate that Disney can't seem to produce competent SW villains and they're continuing that trend apparently. Shin Hati and Marrok just unlocked the achievement of stupidest pilots in brand history. Excellent job, Dave - way to sacrifice character potential and good storytelling so your pet creation can have a "badass" moment. Thrawn doesn't stand a chance.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
it was still grounded in reality within the world they built.
A space fantasy series with space wizards, laser swords, and muppets inspired by Flash Gordon serials and intended to be enjoyed by 12 year olds was never “grounded in reality”. Trying to retcon Star Wars into something it never was means it probably isn’t for you any more. Perhaps Snyder’s R-rated Star Wars rip off on Netflix is more what you’re looking for.
 

BlackTron

Member
A space fantasy series with space wizards, laser swords, and muppets inspired by Flash Gordon serials and intended to be enjoyed by 12 year olds was never “grounded in reality”. Trying to retcon Star Wars into something it never was means it probably isn’t for you any more. Perhaps Snyder’s R-rated Star Wars rip off on Netflix is more what you’re looking for.

I'm making a mistake posting in this thread again, but...

Time traveling robots? Terminator was never grounded in reality...ETC ETC


The point he is making by saying "grounded in reality" is pretty obvious, no we don't have lightsabers IRL, but it was an easy to digest future tech presented in a plausible way, the vibe of old SW was carried over into Rogue One and Andor successfully, and that vibe is his preference (the vibe that made SW a success to begin with) now years later you just say "SW was never meant for you", you SW defenders are even bigger derps than SW complainers, like we have no grasp of what SW was for 30 years. Disney is retconning SW, when we don't like it you say "stop trying to retcon SW into something it never was", hilarious
 

Dural

Member
I'm making a mistake posting in this thread again, but...

Time traveling robots? Terminator was never grounded in reality...ETC ETC

The point he is making by saying "grounded in reality" is pretty obvious, no we don't have lightsabers IRL, but it was an easy to digest future tech presented in a plausible way, the vibe of old SW was carried over into Rogue One and Andor successfully, and that vibe is his preference (the vibe that made SW a success to begin with) now years later you just say "SW was never meant for you", you SW defenders are even bigger derps than SW complainers, like we have no grasp of what SW was for 30 years. Disney is retconning SW, when we don't like it you say "stop trying to retcon SW into something it never was", hilarious

Ahsoka is continuing the story of popular Star Wars animated series and isn't doing anything out of the ordinary for those series. Clone Wars has been around since 2008 and I thought was highly regarded by most fans. Honestly not sure what all the fuss is about with Ahsoka and I hated Obi Wan and Boba Fett (other than the Mandalorian episodes). Andor I enjoyed, but the first two episodes were a bore.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
I'm making a mistake posting in this thread again, but...

Time traveling robots? Terminator was never grounded in reality...ETC ETC

The point he is making by saying "grounded in reality" is pretty obvious, no we don't have lightsabers IRL, but it was an easy to digest future tech presented in a plausible way, the vibe of old SW was carried over into Rogue One and Andor successfully, and that vibe is his preference (the vibe that made SW a success to begin with) now years later you just say "SW was never meant for you", you SW defenders are even bigger derps than SW complainers, like we have no grasp of what SW was for 30 years. Disney is retconning SW, when we don't like it you say "stop trying to retcon SW into something it never was", hilarious
The real issue here is "suspension of disbelief" which is GREATLY helped by "internal consistency". Even wacked out fantasy worlds need a set of constraints, established rules for how things operate, and repeatability of effects. So if it is WELL ESTABLISHED that torse lightsaber strikes are fatal, and in all the films/shows up to Obiwan this is CONSISTENT, then to suddenly throw that out the window and have MULTIPLE characters take a center torso stab, largely for the lazy writer trick of setting up a "will she/won't she die" cliffhanger, then it violates internal consistency which then hurts suspension of disbelief.

THIS is what is triggering for most of these sci-fi shows. Just sloppy regard for precedent, dumping lore for the sake of a quick writing beat, and a general lack of understanding and/or respect for WHY things need to be a certain way and how delicate it is to change it.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Ahsoka is continuing the story of popular Star Wars animated series and isn't doing anything out of the ordinary for those series. Clone Wars has been around since 2008 and I thought was highly regarded by most fans. Honestly not sure what all the fuss is about with Ahsoka and I hated Obi Wan and Boba Fett (other than the Mandalorian episodes). Andor I enjoyed, but the first two episodes were a bore.
Animation allows for, or at least is much more forgiving of, a lot of stuff that live action just can't so. Rapidly establishing things via dialogue at a pace far faster than LA, dramatic physics defying stunts, implausible but cool looking aliens, these are things animation can do that LA struggles with. Blending the two is always rife with problems, just go watch that Star Trek:SNW and LD crossover to see how animated hyperactive characters work in one medium but are nigh insufferable in the other.
 

Trunx81

Gold Member
The real issue here is "suspension of disbelief" which is GREATLY helped by "internal consistency". Even wacked out fantasy worlds need a set of constraints, established rules for how things operate, and repeatability of effects. So if it is WELL ESTABLISHED that torse lightsaber strikes are fatal, and in all the films/shows up to Obiwan this is CONSISTENT, then to suddenly throw that out the window and have MULTIPLE characters take a center torso stab, largely for the lazy writer trick of setting up a "will she/won't she die" cliffhanger, then it violates internal consistency which then hurts suspension of disbelief.

THIS is what is triggering for most of these sci-fi shows. Just sloppy regard for precedent, dumping lore for the sake of a quick writing beat, and a general lack of understanding and/or respect for WHY things need to be a certain way and how delicate it is to change it.
Inconsistency isn´t even atypical for other movie genres. An enemies car will got out in flames when it crashes into a wall, but James Bond can make 7 turns in his Aston Martin in Casino Royal and Le Chiffre has him by his balls a few minutes later.

Also, it´s possible to use the same defence that was used for a black mermaid with a latino father in the life action Arielle movie: It´s a fantasy.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Inconsistency isn´t even atypical for other movie genres. An enemies car will got out in flames when it crashes into a wall, but James Bond can make 7 turns in his Aston Martin in Casino Royal and Le Chiffre has him by his balls a few minutes later.

Also, it´s possible to use the same defence that was used for a black mermaid with a latino father in the life action Arielle movie: It´s a fantasy.

I would argue this is not always the case



For example this scene is believable because it's a Ford Pinto, most people would be shocked if it didn't detonate. Audience expectations are important and play into this, you can subvert them but it needs to be done with care otherwise it feels forced, cheap and unsatisfying.
 
Last edited:

Trunx81

Gold Member
I would argue this is not always the case



For example this scene is believable because it's a Ford Pinto, most people would be shocked if it didn't detonate. Audience expectations are important and play into this, you can subvert them but it needs to be done with care otherwise it feels forced, cheap and unsatisfying.

I mean .. Christoph´s sled exploded in Frozen. It´s a common trope.
 

BlackTron

Member
The only thing “Disney” retconned was fixing George’s thinking that 12 parsecs was a measure of speed.

First, Disney retconned the entire EU so LOL. Second, this is one thing that Disney did not even retcon, they took the EU explanation, which was taken from George himself, and put it in the Han Solo movie.

In the commentary for the DVD release of A New Hope, George Lucas offers an alternative explanation. Lucas explains that Han Solo’s boast in the movie has less to do with the speed of the ship, and rather is bragging about how good the ship’s computer is. According to Lucas the Millennium Falcon’s advanced navigational computer is able to calculate much faster routes than other ships. Meaning that the Falcon was able to find a shorter and thereby faster path from point A to point B in the Kessel Run. This idea is seemingly backed up in a document from 1977, when Lucas began to put together a knowledge database of Star Wars in preparation for the expansion of the franchise beyond the first movie. When describing the Millennium Falcon, the ship is described as simple and economical, but modifications to the ship are extensive including to its navigational system.

The idea was further expanded upon in A.C. Crispin’s Han Solo trilogy of books, when the Kessel Run was expanded upon in greater detail. It turns out that the Kessel Run was a specific 20 parsec long smuggling route that was close to a cluster of black holes known as The Maw. Han’s famous Kessel Run involved Han flying closer to the black holes than other pilots would be comfortable with, thus cutting eight parsecs off of the standard run time. While this was part of the Legends timeline that was deemed non-canon after the Disney acquisition, this explanation was more or less reintroduced as the official explanation of the line in Solo: A Star Wars Story, when Han does successfully fly the Kessel Run, using what he describes in the movie as “A shortcut.”
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
First, Disney retconned the entire EU so LOL.
You can’t retcon something that wasn’t canon.

“I don’t read that stuff. I haven’t read any of the novels. I don’t know anything about that world.” -George Lucas, Starlog #337.

9aPzEVg.jpg
 
Last edited:

jason10mm

Gold Member
Inconsistency isn´t even atypical for other movie genres. An enemies car will got out in flames when it crashes into a wall, but James Bond can make 7 turns in his Aston Martin in Casino Royal and Le Chiffre has him by his balls a few minutes later.

Also, it´s possible to use the same defence that was used for a black mermaid with a latino father in the life action Arielle movie: It´s a fantasy.
You can violate internal consistency, but you should be DELIBERATE about it. The best films do this. A car crashes and explodes when shot, but JAMES BOND'S car does NOT. A plane crashes and explodes when shot, but JAMES BOND'S plane does NOT. The consistency here is that JB can do things mere mortal men CAN NOT, so it IS internally consistent and aids in suspension of disbelief that a car/plane could do that in the first place. But if a lazy writer ignores that and just has cars randomly explode or not explode for other people, or pushes the number of cars that DON'T explode with JB at the wheel, it strains SoD.

And of course if there is NO CHANCE that JBs car might explode, because of the way the actor fails to sell the risk, the editing/music fails to deliver, or the writing undercuts it with too many glib quips, then the audience also tends to bail out. It is a balance that isn't that hard to achieve, but you have to be aware of maintaining it in the first place.

This is a common issue with girlboss films. They want to establish the girl as a dominate player, but they fail to get an actress that can sell it and fail to back her up with the script. Take usual scene of the hero walking into a bar, getting some douchebag to accost him over some perceived slight, then a beatdown occurs to show how much the hero knows kung-fu. This is often framed over the hero defending some womans honor, a classic and well established reason to get to punching. But with a heroine, its usually some personal sexist insult and ends up with a 250 pound bruiser allowing some 120 pound waif to slap him around in an inadvertently comical fight scene. See, the internal consistency isn't selling it and the suspension of disbelief doesn't hold up.
 

Mattdaddy

Gold Member
A space fantasy series with space wizards, laser swords, and muppets inspired by Flash Gordon serials and intended to be enjoyed by 12 year olds was never “grounded in reality”. Trying to retcon Star Wars into something it never was means it probably isn’t for you any more. Perhaps Snyder’s R-rated Star Wars rip off on Netflix is more what you’re looking for.

Lol is this generic OT thread version of "Oh you have a complaint about Elden Ring? Maybe just go play Call of Duty sounds more your speed mmmkayy *daenerys smirk gif* "

(n)

The original trilogy never ventured into this level of ultra cheesy stupid shit. I mean my dude we had a cavalry charge across the deck of a capital ship. What? Why? Why even write that in? We didn't see horses assaulting the death star in a new hope. That is fucking stupid. The new stuff just has "Wtf was that? Why?" moments everywhere.

I mean look at this. This is amateur hour. There is nothing this fucking stupid in the OT. The new stuff is just riddled with this:




Cmon what is that scene. Why do we have adult soldiers acting completely flabbergasted on how to grab a 9 year old girl. Its not even necessary. Whats the point of this scene? Leia needs to get captured to move the plot along. Ok fine, just fucking snatch her. Have Red Hot Chili Peppers there just grab her and she screams and lets move on. Why do we have a completely nonsensical scene of a little girl awkwardly stunting on people parkour style through the woods. Its stupid. So much of Disney + content is just chock full of shit like this, some shows more than others but theres a constant stink of it and Kenobi was the worst offender by far.

Ewoks killing Stormtroopers with sticks is about as low as the OT gets. But it was the exception not the norm.


It would be like if you enjoyed Jurassic Park. Then you watch Jurassic Park 3 and you see the scene of the little girl actually killing velociraptors with a gymnastics routine. And you go "Well that was fucking stupid". Its not a valid counter-argument to go "Well its a show about dinosaurs it was never real."
 
Last edited:

Trunx81

Gold Member
You can violate internal consistency, but you should be DELIBERATE about it. The best films do this. A car crashes and explodes when shot, but JAMES BOND'S car does NOT. A plane crashes and explodes when shot, but JAMES BOND'S plane does NOT. The consistency here is that JB can do things mere mortal men CAN NOT, so it IS internally consistent and aids in suspension of disbelief that a car/plane could do that in the first place. But if a lazy writer ignores that and just has cars randomly explode or not explode for other people, or pushes the number of cars that DON'T explode with JB at the wheel, it strains SoD.

And of course if there is NO CHANCE that JBs car might explode, because of the way the actor fails to sell the risk, the editing/music fails to deliver, or the writing undercuts it with too many glib quips, then the audience also tends to bail out. It is a balance that isn't that hard to achieve, but you have to be aware of maintaining it in the first place.

This is a common issue with girlboss films. They want to establish the girl as a dominate player, but they fail to get an actress that can sell it and fail to back her up with the script. Take usual scene of the hero walking into a bar, getting some douchebag to accost him over some perceived slight, then a beatdown occurs to show how much the hero knows kung-fu. This is often framed over the hero defending some womans honor, a classic and well established reason to get to punching. But with a heroine, its usually some personal sexist insult and ends up with a 250 pound bruiser allowing some 120 pound waif to slap him around in an inadvertently comical fight scene. See, the internal consistency isn't selling it and the suspension of disbelief doesn't hold up.
That´s what I loved about Supernatural: In the end, the boys had plot armor because God willed it so. First time I´ve seen a show take note on that issue.

But, to get back to Star Wars: It was established that a light saber stab wound can kill you, like the Golden Gun in N64s Goldeneye: Instant kill.
Later on, other Star Wars media established that this hasn´t to be true - and right so, as it is a hot plasmasword that cauterizes the wound. With many examples out there now (heck, even Anakin was hit by Obi Wans lightsaber and didn´t die) - isn´t Qui Gons death the inconsistent one?
 

sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
Episode 3 can be summed up into a boring space scene.....pretty yawn worthy episode.

And Wish.com Miley Cirus is becoming the Reeva of this series. Everytime you see her, your eyes roll involuntarily because she's annoying as fk, and you know deep down that as much as you want her to be killed off quick, they're going to keep her alive all the way to the end.

And keeping with the Katheen Kennedy trash style, i can see them doing a redemption angle with her too where her and Sabine finally square off and Sabine doesn't kill her when she has the chance, and then Miley Cirus Jr ends up helping the Rebels before she's killed off

Best thing about this series so far is the music. Very well done!
 
Last edited:

Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
People really praise Andor. I watched two episodes I was bored to death but I also admit I watched them about a week or so after my father passed away so I was definitely affected.

Still though, I don't remember any decent action scenes and just a lot of talking and a lot of still scenes. I felt really weird for Star Wars show.
 

Mattdaddy

Gold Member
People really praise Andor. I watched two episodes I was bored to death but I also admit I watched them about a week or so after my father passed away so I was definitely affected.

Still though, I don't remember any decent action scenes and just a lot of talking and a lot of still scenes. I felt really weird for Star Wars show.

Its a slower burn for sure, the pacing I think is a fair complaint people have. But I ended up really enjoying it, the sum of all the parts felt amazing. It picks up once they get closer to the heist. But there is definitelay a bigger focus on the origins of the alliance and a little more spywork and politcial intrigue.

It was kinda like Breaking Bad for me, Breaking Bad took me like 5 attempts to get into. I would get so bored right out of the gate and quit, but I finalized just pushed through and by the end I was like "This was the best shit ever."
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
That´s what I loved about Supernatural: In the end, the boys had plot armor because God willed it so. First time I´ve seen a show take note on that issue.

But, to get back to Star Wars: It was established that a light saber stab wound can kill you, like the Golden Gun in N64s Goldeneye: Instant kill.
Later on, other Star Wars media established that this hasn´t to be true - and right so, as it is a hot plasmasword that cauterizes the wound. With many examples out there now (heck, even Anakin was hit by Obi Wans lightsaber and didn´t die) - isn´t Qui Gons death the inconsistent one?
I can recall lots of limb chopping with lightsabers but no torso hits with someone living outside of Maul. And Maul was already a big WTF???? moment that took a couple eps of Clone Wars to wrap my head around, but at least he was an alien so maybe thats why. But these human mofos shrugging off torso piercings........yeah no. What REALLY gets me is that they frame it as if the person is thought to be dead (at least in Obiwan, not seen Ahsoka yet) and then SURPRISE she lived! TWICE!
 

Toons

Member
Disney has produced the dumbest "stuff" Star Wars has ever seen by a long shot.

Some people prefer the middle ground between suspension of disbelief and witless absurdity. Hell, last week I was willing to give a pass to yet another lightsaber gutshot survivor. At some point, it's just too much. This week's episode was space Leia levels of cringe.
Jedi in space isn't new.

No, this isn't too much.

EU did more than this 25 years ago. Much more.

And star wars has always had dumb stuff. We got two ewok films and a holiday special before we got any backstory on the main villain of the OT.

I also hate that Disney can't seem to produce competent SW villains and they're continuing that trend apparently. Shin Hati and Marrok just unlocked the achievement of stupidest pilots in brand history. Excellent job, Dave - way to sacrifice character potential and good storytelling so your pet creation can have a "badass" moment. Thrawn doesn't stand a chance.

How were they not competent exactly?

Exactly what I'm talking about.

Were now at the point of shitting on stuff even the OT introduced.

This is why I ask... what is it you guys are actually upset about? Because if its the mention of turbolasers than maybe star wars isn't your forte anymore.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Why set up yourself for disappointment too - why does every show have to be the best show it could possibly be? Sometimes perfectly average (or even below average) shows and can super enjoyable. Guilty pleasures and all!
 

Toons

Member
Gritty probably wasn't the right word for me to use. I dont need Saving Private Ryan out there haha.

But that general vibe of the original trilogy, whatever you want to call it. I mean even with Jedi, and the Force, space battles, etc... it was still grounded in reality within the world they built.
In what way?

You didn't see Luke spacewalking across the top of the millennium falcon deflecting a barrage of high caliber laser blasts from a squadron of tie fighters. I mean my god... Rise of Skywalker had a cavalry charge across the deck of a star destroyer lmao. Like wtf??

I dont see the problem? Luke fought a giant dinosaur monster while leaving chokes out a giant toad frog thing who has enslaved her in the OT. He ends the second movie by falling down a random shift in a floating building, and lands on top of the falcon.

Don't even get me started on the stuff introduced in the PT. The force speed that is never used again. The clone wars had anakin fight in space as did rebels.

To me, thats just jumping the shark territory. But when I think of Star Wars, Im also comparing back to the OT, thats the Star Wars that I grew up with and what kicked the whole thing off. And it never really got that dumb except Ewoks killing stormtroopers.

Like the battles at Hoth and the space battle at Endor, those felt like real badass military battles, but with a Star Wars coat of paint.

If they remade Hoth today, they would probably have some girl run out there in front of the AT-ATs dodging all their laser fire with jukes and flips and back handsprings, she'd scale it and then spray paint over the cockpit. The drivers would be like "Ohh noOooO!" and crash into another AT-AT. She'd fire off a Marvel one-liner.

We've gotten battles much more intense than anything from the OT in the Disney era. the final epsidoe of andor. Its grittier and more grounded than anything we've ever had in star wars. Civilian deaths, riots, mass destruction and chaos. Far cry from the OT... but in the opposite direction.

Im not even saying its not okay to enjoy something like that lol. Im just saying its a very different vibe from OG Star Wars, which is what I like. Andor and Rogue One carry that original style more and I liked those a lot.

I think OT star wars had a lot of various tones and vibes and all of them are valid for star wars. It doesn't make it bad when a particular show highlights one over the other.
I mean think of the escape from the Death Star in A New Hope versus Kenobi. Can you imagine if Han just tucked Leia up under his trench coat and walked out the front door. That literally happened in Kenobi. Thats 3 Stooges. That is dumb and lazy as it gets. Thats bad.

The first thing Leia does when released from imprisonment in the OT is to quip about the height of her rescuers.

They end up in a pile of sludge with a random tentacles monster attacking them after getting through down a garbage chute.

They take the costumes of two stormtroopers and blend in perfectly without notice, Luke and Leia then outgunned two trained stormtroopers(this is Luke's first time off world keep in mind). But guy hiding a girl under his coat is too much?

That's not even that far fetched lol. Eeoks killing stormtroopers is much sillier.

Btw Im not even hating Ashoka, I said I liked it overall. Just pointing out theres some high level cheese that kinda irks me here and there.

But Im well into my 30s now and maybe that shit just aint cool anymore and its not coming back and I need to deal with it. Which is why Im here bitching :)

And yes agree, final battle in Kenobi was cool, I said it was the only good part. But imo the rest of that show is pretty indefensible. When you have 9 year old girl juking hardened mercs like she's fuckin Barry Sanders, cmon youre getting an eyeroll.
And if you were a 9 year old watching it it would be fine snd you're gonna love it and shit on everything else not like it in 30 years when the new star wars thing is out, just like you did for the Ewoks.

Star wars has both, like I said. Theres room in this universe for both but generally the jedi based stuff is always more fantastical and lighthearted. And the franchise as a whole has a ton of cheese and goofy silly Looney tunes type s*** on occasion. Its not just for 30 year olds. Primarily the franchise is a child like fantasy, which is prone to stuff like that.

Obi wan has nothing that the fra chose hasn't already displayed in one form or another. I'll call out the lacking production values but everything else is a disconnect between the primary audience and being older, more cynical and more jaded in my eyes. Not saying you have to like it but I sure did.
 

Toons

Member


To drive this point home watch this.

Within 10 seconds we have Leia s*** on hans ship(she busts his balls the entire time), like ten armored stormtroopers show up; Han shoots ONE and they all start running in the opposite direction while he chases them screaming like a mad man. He turns a corner to see like 50 troopers waiting for him and still shoots another one before he is shot at, escaping snd running backwards down the exact same hallway he just chased them down.

Now, some of yall forgive this, might not even remember it, because it's in the originals. If this happened in a modern stat wars show some of you would say its the dumbest thing ever filmed and you probably wouldn't even be wrong.

So where is the disconnect here? This is GOOFY ass s***, straight out of Looney tunes. This has been a part of the franchise since day one. Incompetent villains, visual and physical gag humor, and general silliness whilst trying to save a captured table from an imperial regime.

Why is it people are so cynical now that star wars being star wars is now anti star wars? Folks are s***ing on turbolasers, visual gags, and slapstick bit those are NOTHING new here. Some of you guys have rose tinted goggles, or have forgotten the target demographic of this franchise. It was THIS before it was ever gritty or serious.
 
Last edited:

jason10mm

Gold Member
Why set up yourself for disappointment too - why does every show have to be the best show it could possibly be? Sometimes perfectly average (or even below average) shows and can super enjoyable. Guilty pleasures and all!
Damn, hope your doctor, firefighter, policeman, civil engineer, or aircraft pilot doesnt share a "hmmm, let's just be mediocre today" attitude :p
 

Mattdaddy

Gold Member


To drive this point home watch this.

Within 10 seconds we have Leia s*** on hans ship(she busts his balls the entire time), like ten armored stormtroopers show up; Han shoots ONE and they all start running in the opposite direction while he chases them screaming like a mad man. He turns a corner to see like 50 troopers waiting for him and still shoots another one before he is shot at, escaping snd running backwards down the exact same hallway he just chased them down.

Now, some of yall forgive this, might not even remember it, because it's in the originals. If this happened in a modern stat wars show some of you would say its the dumbest thing ever filmed and you probably wouldn't even be wrong.

So where is the disconnect here? This is GOOFY ass s***, straight out of Looney tunes. This has been a part of the franchise since day one. Incompetent villains, visual and physical gag humor, and general silliness whilst trying to save a captured table from an imperial regime.

Why is it people are so cynical now that star wars being star wars is now anti star wars? Folks are s***ing on turbolasers, visual gags, and slapstick bit those are NOTHING new here. Some of you guys have rose tinted goggles, or have forgotten the target demographic of this franchise. It was THIS before it was ever gritty or serious.


Im with you, everyone has the right to like whatever they like. For me though in this example, this is the kinda of suspension of disbelief I can handle. Is this goofy and would Han actually get smoked here? Yeah of course. But it's not jump the shark levels of ridiculous, imo.

It's like ok, so we know Stormtroopers are incompetent. Hans going to startle them here and scare the shit out of them and get them running. Then they realize hes alone and so he starts running. Goofy sure, but not so insanely dumb its distracting. And the way its executed its actually pretty funny. People can get startled and freaked out for a second.

Theres a scene in Band of Brothers where this squad of American soldiers are trying to deliver a message to the other parts of the village and they have German soldiers in between them. They dont have any ammo, but the guy is like "They dont know that"... and he charges this German position while theyre eating or something screaming like a maniac and holding his gun up. All the Germans shit their pants and freak out and drop their guns and run or try to surrender... and the American dude just runs right past them untouched and delivers the message. I mean thats a stone cold serious WW2 series, but the scene still works.

And I dont even mean to say everything needs to be based on hyper realism... the context around the Star Wars example is way sillier than band of brothers, for sure. Im just saying that scene in Star Wars, while goofy, doesn't make me roll my eyes for being overly dumb. I still feel like Han can be shot and killed, he just got the drop on them and spooked them and a funny scene played out.

But now imagine that as they start to escape in the millenium falcon after that, all the Death Star weapons target them and unleash a massive laser barrage. Luke Skywalker goes out into space... stands on the top of the ship as they fly away, and deflects an onslaught of laser bolts as big as he is away with his lightsaber. Its just... odd lol. Doesnt fit the feeling of how the rest of the movie treats itself at all.

Maybe we just interpret it different and thats cool... but to me that is a far cry different than Han scaring stormtroopers. Thats next level ridiculousness and doesn't really play along with the rules they already established for their universe. And I feel like a lot of the Disney stuff starts to lean way more that way than the spirit of the originals.

Even just how they build out their basic logic trees of making a coherent story, even disregarding the actual moment to moment dialogue for a second.

OG: "We need to blow up the Death Star" -> "It seems impenetrable, we need spies" -> "Spies found secret plans" -> "We gotta steal those plans" -> "A strike team stole the plans" -> "We have a politician on our side, she'll deliver the plans under disguise" -> "We got the plans, we identified a weakness, lets attack"
Okay, fine. Makes sense. Seems logical enough for a military operation, Ill play along.

New Series: "We need to blow Death Star 2" -> "Finn - I WORKED THERE AS A JANITOR. THEY TELL JANITORS HOW TO BLOW IT UP."
I mean holy shit, we even trying anymore?

In my opinion.... its just way too dumb. Its just has a dumb and lazy overall aura to it that feels way inferior. And I dont think its rose tinted goggles cause I dont feel that way about all of it. I mentioned quite a few times that Andor and Rogue One I thought were great.

Back to the Jurassic Park example. Original Jurassic Park is a classic. Are we suspending disbelief... yeah for sure. We have fuckin dinosaurs running lmao. But people still act and behave somewhat like you might imagine if they were being terrorized by dinosuars. They can't physically compete with a dinosuar in hand to hand combat. Cause that would be dumb, even within this world we are operating in.

Flash forward to Jurassic Park 3. A 14 year old girl kills a velociraptor with a Gymnastics routine. BZZZZZZZZZT. Wrong. Dumb. We have flown past the acceptable limits. Shut it down. Lmao thats what we are dealing with now. Imho.
 
Last edited:

jason10mm

Gold Member
Within 10 seconds we have Leia s*** on hans ship(she busts his balls the entire time), like ten armored stormtroopers show up; Han shoots ONE and they all start running in the opposite direction while he chases them screaming like a mad man. He turns a corner to see like 50 troopers waiting for him and still shoots another one before he is shot at, escaping snd running backwards down the exact same hallway he just chased them down.
I'll debate this. That scene is a classic because it is the culmination of Han's TOTALLY misbegotten Death Star "heist". This roguish character, played by an INCREDIBLY charismatic actor, has been bouncing back and forth from success and failure the entire time, his smug cocky attitude is completely crumbling. Then, in the middle of this disaster of a rescue, he gets the drop on some stormtroopers and in a moment of excess, chases them down a hallway. Then he runs smack into an ENTIRE room of troopers and has to tuck tail and run away. This illustrates the highs and lows of the character in 1 quick scene and he pulls it off EFFORTLESSLY. It is a bit of slapstick, yes, but it FEELS organic to the world and his response FEELS genuine. A modern girlboss version of this would have her yell some catchphrase as she knocks over a conveniently located rack of thermal detonators, blowing the entire room because SHE CAN NOT LOOK WEAK......EVER.

And I saw this scene on TV with pan n scan where they only show like 2 troopers in the room. It was YEARS until a widescreen version or the special editions came out that showed the room was full.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom