ChorizoPicozo
Member
plot twist: The games they have is a sign of 8 years behind the curve of what they need as a brand
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Why XBOX lost the war - according to Laura Fryer
- Thread starter dDoc
- Start date
Mibu no ookami
Member
Console sales did actually jump. It never was ahead of the PS5, but there were times where it was in the top 20 of units sold. Amazon also doesn't actively push the Series S. It's never in the top sales for games or even xbox related items. So either they're hiding it or they just don't stock it much for obvious reasons.
Ultimately, amazon charts aren't the best view into actual sales, but it should be worth noting that really any place that shows sales or sales positioning has shown Starfield drop off significantly.
It's funny that you draw that conclusion from a video where it is stated that the arrival of P. Spencer is good and that he is the right person to try/manage to reverse those errors and loss of the original Xbox culture that have condemned Xbox these years .....
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
You’re not wrong in that Xbox has more original game releases than the others - who are largely sequel/remaster machines.
Thing is Microsoft only has this by default because they bought the publisher/studios that were making those new ip.
The new problem is of quality though. They may own Arkane, but they’re not the Arkane that made the games Arkane is known for. They’re just Arkane in name only, shipping an mismanaged embarrassment to customers.
Mikami left Tango Works, so God knows if their future games will go downhill.
Starfield stumbled out of the gate and is largely disappointing. Even Forza disappointed, and that franchise used to be one that you could depend on being solid.
So really a diverse selection of games is great. But if talent leaves and management continues to bumble around cluelessly, then it’s meaningless. Just fodder to feed the Game Pass machine, which in itself is gaining a reputation of offering low quality games.
Mephisto40
Member
I draw that conclusion from what I've seen with my own eyes for the past 10 yearsIt's funny that you draw that conclusion from a video where it is stated that the arrival of P. Spencer is good and that he is the right person to try/manage to reverse those errors and loss of the original Xbox culture that have condemned Xbox these years .....
Mibu no ookami
Member
Microsoft is less reliant on sequels and remasters because they have weaker IP to rely on.
What they could/can sequel and remaster they have or are going to.
The biggest problem is as you put it, it's very difficult to just buy your way into an industry or industry position. People leave, especially if you've dropped big sums of money on them. I doubt many people in the industry want to tie their long term career goals to GamePass when everyone knows it is doomed to fail. Even Bobby Kotick knows this.
Topher
Gold Member
I'd generally agree that Microsoft has done really well with the smaller, more unique experiences. Sony used to do that with games from Japan Studio like The Last Guardian and Gravity Rush. Now it seems all we get going forward are the Team Asobi's Astro games. A shame. On the flip side, Sony continues to excel with their AAA games while Microsoft hasn't been nearly as successful and it ain't just Redfall. Even with a game like Starfield, which I love, the reviews on Steam that continue to drop largely due to performance issues which can be traced back to MS deal with AMD to prioritize FSR. Stupid and needless. Even Halo Infinite didn't meet expectations and resulted in 343 being gutted and the studios leader leaving. And now Forza is apparently not nearly as well received as some though it would be. The exception in all this is Playground Games' Forza Horizon......but if we are going to point to games that "play the same as the last two" well.....that applies here as well. So I'd say MS has been a mixed bag overall.
killatopak
Gold Member
Because people cheer on mediocrity.
You know when Sony and Nintendo does something wrong, their fans actually lit their ass on fire. Verbally and with actions as well in a form of sales.
When’s the last time you saw Xbox fans actually demand competence from the platform. No, it‘s always the blame game. Everyone except themselves.
You know when Sony and Nintendo does something wrong, their fans actually lit their ass on fire. Verbally and with actions as well in a form of sales.
When’s the last time you saw Xbox fans actually demand competence from the platform. No, it‘s always the blame game. Everyone except themselves.
Topher
Gold Member
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I got the Series S with that Verizon $150 deal, and I still feel ripped off. haha.Why they lost?
They promise things they dont hold
They own brands they dont use
Homemade Problems
My XSX is covered in dust. I have to clean it on the Weekend. Havent it turned on since I played GE Remake on it.
What a waste of Money.
I'm only using it every blue moon to play some of the xbox backlog of when they made good games. I got MCC for $10 and Fable 2 for $10. This is the first xbox console I ever owned.
ulantan
Member
Thats the problem with CEOs trying to be your friend it drives criticism away and defense forces grow. It's one of the only things I respected about Jim is that he's an evil suit first that made it easy to critique him. Everyone is more vocal no matter what he does. It's a way healthier environment.
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Sounds like they are, and in the case of Forza their opinions are being deleted.
Redfall was a massive stinker that stirred up a hornets nest as well. Seemed like even the boot lickers weren’t happy.
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Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
He's cheapened the brand and permanently damaged the value proposition of their games.
I think that's the real truth behind his "if we just make great games, things will turn around just isn't true" . . . he's blaming the generation they lost with the digital libraries but that's bullshit. Nintendo tells all of us fuck your digital libraries every gen, yet it still sells like hotcakes due to their games. He's damaged the brand in peoples minds too much for just a great game or two turning things around.
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onnextflix5
Member
Phil spencer has joined the chat.
cireza
Member
So basically, we should all love having a tyrannical neighbor that decides for us why and how our house should be, because he is the guardian of good taste and knows better than us.
Mediocrity is right there on PS and Switch, but I am not pretentious enough to tell you what you should do about these consoles.
Xbox will stop "losing the war" when people who don't give a fuck about Xbox will stop talking about Xbox. Until then, it will continue losing a non-existant war in the mind of these people.
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hououinkyouma00
Member
I'll check this out. Will be nice to have a video from somebody that actually has insight.
Microsoft on the other hand have released disappointing titles in big franchises alongside a few good small titles. Most recently FM is disappointing and broken, Redfall was a complete disaster, Starfield was good but disappointing to basically every BGS fan I know, and the biggest of them all Halo Infinite was also a disappointment. On a personal note even FH5 was a disappointment with the direction it went. They definitely have some good stuff out there like Hifi Rush but their platform has been dominated by disappointment and mediocrity.
OG Xbox started amazing and existed mostly as a Halo machine but still had reasons to own it. 360 was amazing until like 2009 (?) ish where it became nearly useless outside of COD, Xbox One started off terribly but grew into itself and had some landmark titles for me like FH3/4 and MCC (after launch of course), and I was excited for the Series X/S but I just don't see the point. That's after owning a Series X twice, and a Series S twice (luckily I didn't really loose much money, maybe $100 total?).
Over reliance on GP, broken and mediocre releases in HUGE franchises, and day and date PC releases got rid of any reason for me to own one at this point outside of 360 BC which just isn't enough.
I disagree. I don't care for the direction that PlayStation has gone recently but I would in no way say that Microsoft has better games this gen. Sony doesn't have a ton of new games this gen but stuff like Returnal, Ragnarok, R&C, and Horizon are all great if not amazing games that released in good states. That isn't including ports/remakes/remasters and stuff like MLB.
Microsoft on the other hand have released disappointing titles in big franchises alongside a few good small titles. Most recently FM is disappointing and broken, Redfall was a complete disaster, Starfield was good but disappointing to basically every BGS fan I know, and the biggest of them all Halo Infinite was also a disappointment. On a personal note even FH5 was a disappointment with the direction it went. They definitely have some good stuff out there like Hifi Rush but their platform has been dominated by disappointment and mediocrity.
OG Xbox started amazing and existed mostly as a Halo machine but still had reasons to own it. 360 was amazing until like 2009 (?) ish where it became nearly useless outside of COD, Xbox One started off terribly but grew into itself and had some landmark titles for me like FH3/4 and MCC (after launch of course), and I was excited for the Series X/S but I just don't see the point. That's after owning a Series X twice, and a Series S twice (luckily I didn't really loose much money, maybe $100 total?).
Over reliance on GP, broken and mediocre releases in HUGE franchises, and day and date PC releases got rid of any reason for me to own one at this point outside of 360 BC which just isn't enough.
GHG
Gold Member
It should be a 2 way dialogue though. The fact that they are deleting things shows that they are not in fact open to criticism from their customers and that they would rather push them away.
When you do that all you get left with is a bunch of yes men, and thus begins the cycle of the negative feedback loop.
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GHG
Gold Member
Be honest, did you even bother to look into who is doing the critique here?
Vroadstar
Member
Neo account plus that short but embarrassing post history...who's alt x account is this?
Del_X
Member
Your constant intellectually dishonest gaslighting while pretending not to be a warrior yourself has not gone unnoticed. Tighten up.
No, just the parade of usuals in this thread. I don’t really think there’s a console war when Xbox still makes more per unit sold. All the platform holders are chasing different vectors for revenue.
GHG
Gold Member
Ok, as you will. How you think it's appropriate to comment in a thread when you're not even going to bother to afford yourself the opportunity to watch the content in the OP I'll never know.
You've come here wanting to make it about the people posting in the thread rather than the subject at hand. Sad.
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Sethbacca
Member
The problem is, that even being someone who is ambivalent about Xbox, they're buying all of the big IPs in the industry. Wanting to have a healthy competitive gaming industry should be a priority for all of us as gamers. The alternative is that we just have to write off all of these classic IPs as lost to the incompetence of people clearly unqualified to deliver on them.
kirby007
Member
pass me what you are smoking bro, the last time any of these have been innovative is never. The combination already shows you what they want consumers eating A.S.S
Del_X
Member
Man you are just on a mission. Thanks for fighting the very good very virtuous fight, brother!
Ok, as you will. How you think it's appropriate to comment in a thread when you're not even going to bother to afford yourself the opportunity to watch the content in the OP I'll never know.
You've come here wanting to make it about the people posting in the thread rather than the subject at hand. Sad.
I watched the video. She makes great points. I’m also 100% confident this patronage culture has found its way into Bungie, Naughty Dog, and a multitude of other studios. AAA output has been abysmal outside of a select group of 3rd parties and Nintendo IMO.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Phil isn't the worst. Matt Booty is the one who needs to get canned. Adam Greenberg is not far behind that. Phil has had SOME good ideas and is at the very least good at PR. I can't think of a single first party game that has come out under Booty that is worth a damn other than the usual Forza and Gears games, especially when you look at Sony and Nintendo. The Gears games benefitted from having Rodd Fergusson (I have little faith in Gears 6 now that he is gone) at the helm and Forza has always been good, never really needing to re-invent the wheel. Sony always has SOMETHING ready to go. Whether it's a 3rd party exclusive like Death Stranding or Last of Us Remastered or the big guns like Spiderman 2. MS ignores too many good franchises. Would anyone REALLY complain about Fallout New Vegas getting remastered to pad out Gamepass? I sure as hell wouldn't be upset.
GHG
Gold Member
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
They have been plenty innovative in the past, genius. Are they innovative NOW? Not so much.
Xbox Live was innovative for Microsoft and bought online gaming to consoles.
Cyberpunkd
Member
I would say it's because people always thought Microsoft can bail out at any point they decide it's not worth it. In fact the emails submitted in ABK acquisition proceedings say they are STILL considering exiting the market if they can't scale GP fast enough in the next few years.
Whereas nobody will ever suggest Sony and Nintendo exiting gaming market, it's integral part of who they are as a company and have been for decades. That gives them enormous consumer confidence:
Microsoft fucks up: "Man, I wonder if there will be another Xbox, I don't want to invest in the ecosystem"
Nintendo fucks up: "Man, I can't wait what will be their next console they will release to try and do better!"
A lot of weird takes in this topic, including the usual obsessive "blame diversity" comment, but people are always saying Nintendo should go third party and stop making hardware.
Ansphn
Member
I said innovation and creativity fool.
ComputerBlue
Member
Xbox will never win the so called war unless they do what they’re trying to do, strong arm everybody under their umbrella or out of business. Like Apple said years ago, Microsoft has no taste, they lack creativity, they have no imagination, they just churn out uninspired mediocrity in everything they do. Nearly everything that is successful is because they bought it while it was already successful, and so much of it got worse under their control.
Microsoft on a hole might be a well oiled corporation, but everything they do is just so mid because there’s no individuality, it’s just this large beast. Most of all, they don’t innovate shit, this goes well beyond gaming but let’s just stick to that, how much have their game studios innovated? Hardy at all. Compare their very first console to the series X, the only difference is the power inside the box and what the box looks like, other than that nothing has changed. Not from a hardware perspective, not from a software perspective. Nintendo on the other hand has brought so much innovation in the hardware space, Sony a little bit as well. When it comes to games Nintendo and Sony absolutely shit on nearly anything Microsoft puts out.
Microsoft on a hole might be a well oiled corporation, but everything they do is just so mid because there’s no individuality, it’s just this large beast. Most of all, they don’t innovate shit, this goes well beyond gaming but let’s just stick to that, how much have their game studios innovated? Hardy at all. Compare their very first console to the series X, the only difference is the power inside the box and what the box looks like, other than that nothing has changed. Not from a hardware perspective, not from a software perspective. Nintendo on the other hand has brought so much innovation in the hardware space, Sony a little bit as well. When it comes to games Nintendo and Sony absolutely shit on nearly anything Microsoft puts out.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I'll save y'all some time.
XBox lost prior battles (not the war) because they consistently operated on a significantly smaller budget than their direct competitor. PlayStation historically dwarfed XBox in terms of output.
That is no longer the case and the war still rages on. Good clickbait video though.
XBox lost prior battles (not the war) because they consistently operated on a significantly smaller budget than their direct competitor. PlayStation historically dwarfed XBox in terms of output.
That is no longer the case and the war still rages on. Good clickbait video though.
Banjo64
cumsessed
I disagree with her when she says Phil is trying to reverse the culture (to be more open door). The culture at Xbox seems as bad as it’s ever been, but now they know to say the right thing publicly and keep their true plans to their private emails.
Just look at the poor Zenimax guy who had to testify in court and his email evidence where he’s asking senior leadership why they can’t release games on PS anymore when ABK can and see how they essentially shut him down.
Pete Hines I think. Was the decision made with Zenimax’s contribution?
The two were messaging about a recent monthly business review meeting between Xbox and ZeniMax, where Spencer apparently made the call to make all ZeniMax games exclusive going forward, not just new IP. Stuart was asking Booty about what happened during the meeting.
"All games going forward?" Stuart asked. "Not just new IP, but ALL games going forward? Wow."
Just look at the poor Zenimax guy who had to testify in court and his email evidence where he’s asking senior leadership why they can’t release games on PS anymore when ABK can and see how they essentially shut him down.
Pete Hines I think. Was the decision made with Zenimax’s contribution?
The two were messaging about a recent monthly business review meeting between Xbox and ZeniMax, where Spencer apparently made the call to make all ZeniMax games exclusive going forward, not just new IP. Stuart was asking Booty about what happened during the meeting.
"All games going forward?" Stuart asked. "Not just new IP, but ALL games going forward? Wow."
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Interfectum
Member
Interfectum
Member
The war will rage on until MS gets bored of video games then bails out. Phil promised a billion gamers and is currently lingering in third place with competitors a fraction of MS' size.
DrFigs
Member
My issue is this... yes Phil was right to buy Bethesda and Obsidian. I think ultimately it's a good thing for Xbox, of course. To what extent does his management skills get credit for those studios making Hi-Fi Rush, Pentiment, etc. These games were already being made. They would have come out if Phil had done nothing. How is this a sign that he did something right? Meanwhile, he was hands on with Redfall and instead of cancelling the game, he just asked the studio to cancel the ps5 version. That's a sign of a bad manager.
edit: I got my response confused because of the discussion of Phil Spencer above.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
As long as Xbox is in the game, they're losing. Period.
People should listen to what even Spencer himself said:
They already lost last-gen, especially with the rise of digital libraries.
Most people went to Playstation and built a digital library they don't want to lose. They're already invested into the Playstation-ecosystem.
This gen, it'll get even worse.
That's why Spencer threw in the towel and said he reads all the discussions and comments online, but it isn't just a matter of releasing good games. Not even 11/10.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Their behavior over the last few years suggests they've increased their interest in the market substantially, nay, exponentially. Being in 3rd place now was expected. Being in 3rd place by 2030 is unlikely.
Topher
Gold Member
I get what you are saying, but I have the mindset that if the game is published under Microsoft's name then they get both the credit or the blame, whichever is deserved. Spencer could have killed the smaller games like Hi Fi Rush and Pentiment but didn't. He could have delayed Redfall but didn't. So to me, it works both ways.
Killjoy-NL
Member
They'll be a 3rd party publisher by then.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Press F to doubt.
DrFigs
Member
I see what you mean. I think you are right when you put it that way
Killjoy-NL
Member
Their console installbase will dwindle further and GamePass isn't going anywhere without Playstation and Nintendo.
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graywolf323
Member
I mean look at the one user who liked the post
Moriarty1889
Member
They lost the war by not trying to create solid new IP consistently. Also, making the Xbox console irrelevant by pushing their play anywhere initiative and releasing games on PC. Lastly, they are more focused on being a service with Gamepass and devaluing their first party games by dropping them day one on the service. That only ruins any chance of those games selling en masse and recouping ample amounts of money for devs to make proper sequels. It also waters down the quality of those games and they are often sparse of content and drip fed to keep people subbed. Most of this by the way has been pushed and established under Phil Spencer.
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