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[MidGenRefresh]

You say let's be real and then post some cherry picked crap. gtfo man.
This is trolling territory.

Complete delusion. First shot is from the very start of the game when you can see Jackson in the distance. How is that cherry picked, it’s literally the first 5 minutes of the game. This is how Joel looks when in game. Always. I suggest to play the game again, because your memory is failing you big time.

 

[Vick]

Problem is only amateurs or full retards would aim for the same exact result in-game vs cutscenes close-ups. Wasting precious resources for no reason whatsoever aside for even more retarded debates on forums/socials is not something to be expected from an experienced studio working with limited resources.

This is how characters look when playing, wanting more is necessarily asking for less elsewhere.






If anything this getting the most out of different circumstances should be an additional reason to admire Naughty Dog.

 

[rofif]

Problem is only amateurs or full retards would aim for the same exact result in-game vs cutscenes close-ups. Wasting precious resources for no reason whatsoever aside for even more retarded debates on forums/socials is not something to be expected from an experienced studio working with limited resources.

This is how characters look when playing, wanting more is necessarily asking for less elsewhere.






If anything this getting the most out of different circumstances should be an additional reason to admire Naughty Dog.

Before you get countered with "small gifs", I have some shots.

Fully in-gameplay:

(tlou2 ps4 slim shot)

And one to see Nate face. Photo mode is used but this is gameplay paused. photo mode does not replace assets!!!

(this lower one is also from ps4 slim)

 

[ChiefDada]

What game at the VGAs could top gta6? We are hitting the second Gen period of this Gen and lots of AAA studios are due for their first game. Its possible everyone from naughty dog to Kojima and Crystal dynamics turn up.

But will they top gta6 in terms of visuals? Not taking into account physics and npc simulations. Purely visuals.

I'm not sure why you doubt DS2 graphics potential against GTA 6 but I would say the art styles and environment are simply too different for effective comparison. They will both look VERY good.

Back on topic, I really don’t see any upcoming superhero game impressing graphically. Insomniac is a joke and wolverine will simply look “aight” I’m sure.

This is such an objectively insane thing to say. The developers who made your beloved Arkham games are coming out with a title with similar environmental and artistic approach to SM2 and it looks like utter dogshit in comparison.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Problem is only amateurs or full retards would aim for the same exact result in-game vs cutscenes close-ups. Wasting precious resources for no reason whatsoever aside for even more retarded debates on forums/socials is not something to be expected from an experienced studio working with limited resources.

Faces during gameplay in TLOU could look better because of the jarring difference between gameplay and cinematics. They look like different people. And the reason why we bring it up because people are posting screens from non-interactive cinematics and pretend like these are representative of gameplay or that character models in-cinematics and in-gamplay are 'not that far off', heh.

And yeah, I absolutely agree that having the same models during gameplay is a waste of resources on consoles but there should be an option to use them on PC and of course the upcoming TLOU2 remaster should aim to boost in-game character models.

TLOU2 still the king of character models during cinematics. No doubt about it.

 

[Msamy]

The reason that naughty dog characters models looks Better in real time cutscencs is simply because they have full control on lighting , camera and using highest quality of the models (because its scripted and they have full control on what will happen later ) while in gameplay they don't have full control in lighting , camera and characters models LOD (which increased or decreased according to many factors) also they close the gab between cutscencs models quality and gameplay models quality in last of us remake and I think they will do the same in part2 remaster , and finally I want to say that those difference between realtime cutscencs and gameplay are in most games and naughty dog games gameplay graphics are actually on top by the time of it's release while their realtime cutscencs for last of us part 2 are unmatched or on top graphically until now even with cutscencs of games that use path tracing ,( that's show how high efforts they put into their games at least in past gen) , I really want to see their true showcase theis gen

 

[Hugare]

It's depressing sometimes that the discussion can get so dumb in a thread like this. People should know better.

Even when it launched, TLOU Part II didnt have ground breaking tech. The eyes tech and animation tech were a cut above the rest, but it used many techniques that were commonly used for other games (watch the DF video)

And yet, it's still one of the best looking games on the market. Why?

'Cause games nowadays need 3 things to stand out: talent, budget and dev time. Few studios can have all 3. Talent is the most important one, and hard to come by.

You could give 10 years of dev time, the best tools and infinite budget to a good but not great dev and they would still not make a better looking title than TLOU Part II. The same way you could give the best tools to a mid artist and he wouldnt come up with the Sistine Chapel.

Just like in Robocop, it may look photorealistic in some shots, but animations and models are worse. Just like despite having "old" tech, some people consider 2018's RDR 2 to be the best looking open world game ever still. HFW looks amazing, but as a whole, is it as immersive and detailed as RDR 2?

This is why people are hoping that R* will surpass RDR 2 with GTA VI. They have money, time, and the best artists in the industry to accomplish it.

It's not all about tech anymore.

 

[nemiroff]

Yup posted it already on the OT, they have improved the RT reflections range and overall clarity/resolution. Also they made some adjustments to the white balance and soem extra track details. And they fixed tons of missing/buggy stuf on cars and tracks. Its still not perfect but a solid set of improvements for the second patch.

I didn't know they had made these adjustments when I randomly booted up the game yesterday, and it was immediately noticeable for me, it looks pretty damn great now. The milky haze I had (and couldn't be adjusted in the brightness option) is mostly gone (thank god).

 

[arkhamguy123]

This is such an objectively insane thing to say. The developers who made your beloved Arkham games are coming out with a title with similar environmental and artistic approach to SM2 and it looks like utter dogshit in comparison.

Yes and?

 

[SlimySnake]

Problem is only amateurs or full retards would aim for the same exact result in-game vs cutscenes close-ups. Wasting precious resources for no reason whatsoever aside for even more retarded debates on forums/socials is not something to be expected from an experienced studio working with limited resources.

By that logic, Guerrilla Games is retarded.

Or KojiPro

or SSM.

Or maybe just maybe it is important to have GREAT looking character models in a THIRD PERSON game.


This is from photo mode, with depth of field applied, zoomed in to get the highest LOD for their character model. looks nothing like the cutscene model.

This is what she looks like most of the time because of poor texture work on her clothes, aggressive LODs on her character model as she moves away from the camera, and lack of hero lighting.

This is Joel.

Sorry, but they gotta do better than this next gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

The reason that naughty dog characters models looks Better in real time cutscencs is simply because they have full control on lighting , camera and using highest quality of the models (because its scripted and they have full control on what will happen later ) while in gameplay they don't have full control in lighting , camera and characters models LOD (which increased or decreased according to many factors)

But this is true for pretty much every game, but the gulf between gameplay models vs cutscenes model is the largest in naughty dog games. the LODs in other games arent as aggressive. Even in the tlou remake, you really have to go zoom in right at their face to get those cutscene quality character models and in real gameplay you will never see that. I think musilla posted some shots of joel by a lamp which made him look great, but 99% of the game is not lit like that.

Uncharted 4 also suffers from the same issue. That gif vick posted of drake holding a torch illuminates him and he honestly looks great. But 99% of the time, you dont have that kind of lighting being applied to him and he looks really average. Uncharted 4's FOV is also much larger than TLOU2 and TLOU1 so with the character model being farther away from the camera, he looks really ordinary 99% of the time.

 

[Represent.]

As for what can top GTA6 visuals?

Naughty Dog end of gen game will do it

Guerilla Games new single player project.

Thats about all I am confident in.

GTA6 is going to be a monster. Even if it doesn’t have insane fidelity, it will be doing other next gen stuff that will make the project impressive on a whole. And in motion, taking in the entire scope of the game, it’s gonna be hard to beat

 

[Vick]

By that logic, Guerrilla Games is retarded.

Or KojiPro

or SSM.

Or maybe just maybe it is important to have GREAT looking character models in a THIRD PERSON game.


This is from photo mode, with depth of field applied, zoomed in to get the highest LOD for their character model. looks nothing like the cutscene model.

This is what she looks like most of the time because of poor texture work on her clothes, aggressive LODs on her character model as she moves away from the camera, and lack of hero lighting.

This is Joel.

Sorry, but they gotta do better than this next gen.

Well two are Decima games, and one with character models never looking as good as ND cutscenes.
All three with severe/noticeable downgrades/inconsistencies compared to ND titles, Decima (which you know better than me being a whole decade newer than the ND Engine) in the lighting department, with complete lack of dynamic GI, lack of capsule AO etc., and GoW in animations, AI, vegetation and again lighting.
Nothing is free on Consoles.

If you think those games could have had better gameplay models and ND simply decided for no reason to downgrade aspects of them compared to the real-time cutscenes they made, not sure what kind of discussion we can have here.

On a next-gen title I would much rather have full Nanite-like geometry and inclusion of those wonderful secondary shadows from bounce light seen on Lumen GI to say one, than better looking models only seen by accessing Photo-Mode and zooming in.
But that's just me.

 

[Msamy]

But this is true for pretty much every game, but the gulf between gameplay models vs cutscenes model is the largest in naughty dog games. the LODs in other games arent as aggressive. Even in the tlou remake, you really have to go zoom in right at their face to get those cutscene quality character models and in real gameplay you will never see that. I think musilla posted some shots of joel by a lamp which made him look great, but 99% of the game is not lit like that.

Uncharted 4 also suffers from the same issue. That gif vick posted of drake holding a torch illuminates him and he honestly looks great. But 99% of the time, you dont have that kind of lighting being applied to him and he looks really average. Uncharted 4's FOV is also much larger than TLOU2 and TLOU1 so with the character model being farther away from the camera, he looks really ordinary 99% of the time.

I agree with you in the difference between real time cutscencs and gameplay are higher than other games but not in most games for example guardians of galaxy have same differences betwen cutscenes and gameplay ) also i think ND gameplay graphics are also in top compered to other games in last gen , I know there are some other developers use same assets of gameplay in cutscencs as guerilla and Ssm but I think you agree with me that naughty dog cutscencs are higher graphically than guerilla and SSM cutscencs ,saying that I am 100% agree with you that ND need to upgrade their tech and use similar tech like hero lighting and higher assets in gameplay like what you said above , but in the past gen i think there use max power from those machines which not the case with their current games in ps5 , I truly hope and think that they took this long to show true ps5 showcase title because they developing new graphics engine for current gen and onward which will have graphics features similar to Lumen, Nanite , hero lighting and maybe new unknown graphics tech.

 

[Msamy]

As for what can top GTA6 visuals?

Naughty Dog end of gen game will do it

Guerilla Games new single player project.

Thats about all I am confident in.

GTA6 is going to be a monster. Even if it doesn’t have insane fidelity, it will be doing other next gen stuff that will make the project impressive on a whole. And in motion, taking in the entire scope of the game, it’s gonna be hard to beat

I agree with you but it won't be easy task for naughty dog and guerilla ,i hope they can up to our expectations.

 

[Vick]

Might as well post the rest of gameplay shots from the same Album as the previous ones:

 

[Represent.]

Might as well post the rest of gameplay shots from the same Album as the previous ones:

Still looks fantastic, in fact, this looks better than most PS5 games still. Obviously its been surpassed by the best of this gen, but by and large, this is still one of the best looking games ever, nearly 4 years later. And the character models look good too. The remaster should be right up there with the best of this gen. maybe a step below the very best like AW2/Burning shores, etc

 

[Falc67]

New gameplay footage for Project M

Watched this in 4K on my TV, and this looks insane. This is next gen for me; however, as Slimy mentioned. This will probably never see the day of light. And probably just as fake as Spider-Man 2 reveal.

But this looks better than even Alan Wake 2 to me.

 

[Turk1993]

If you are factoring animations in graphics than Ryse and Spiderman are up there at the top. Imo animations are a different topic compared to pure visuals. Sure it makes it better and more believable, but that doesn't mean the graphics are better. Resolution, textures, reflections, shadows, lighting,.... are always the main discussion point in graphics not animations. But im all for better animations, its also one of the reason why Sony games look soo good in motion. They have that cinematic flavor and quality that other studios lack most of the time.

 

[alloush]

But this is true for pretty much every game, but the gulf between gameplay models vs cutscenes model is the largest in naughty dog games. the LODs in other games arent as aggressive. Even in the tlou remake, you really have to go zoom in right at their face to get those cutscene quality character models and in real gameplay you will never see that. I think musilla posted some shots of joel by a lamp which made him look great, but 99% of the game is not lit like that.

Uncharted 4 also suffers from the same issue. That gif vick posted of drake holding a torch illuminates him and he honestly looks great. But 99% of the time, you dont have that kind of lighting being applied to him and he looks really average. Uncharted 4's FOV is also much larger than TLOU2 and TLOU1 so with the character model being farther away from the camera, he looks really ordinary 99% of the time.

Or… OR their cutscene game is top fucking notch which renders their realtime models ugly. Was actually wondering if this was the case with ND!

 

[RaduN]

cutscene with insane production values, tlou2 would go toe to toe with it and easily top the dice games from last Gen.

Maybe in a world where Death Stranding doesn't exist.
Take the intro, first BT encounter, hospital scene, any Cliff intro, the 90 minutes ending, hell, take your random pick, in terms of direction, framing, mo-cap direction, scene composition, Death Stranding is in a different league entirely.
As good as the characters are rendered in Tlou and Tlou2, the cutscene direction is 1st year film school student level at best.

Bonus game that destroys Tlou in terms of cinematic direction in every concievable way: DMC5.

 

[Masterofchapter]

Do people forget ubisoft

As for what can top GTA6 visuals?

Naughty Dog end of gen game will do it

Guerilla Games new single player project.

Thats about all I am confident in.

GTA6 is going to be a monster. Even if it doesn’t have insane fidelity, it will be doing other next gen stuff that will make the project impressive on a whole. And in motion, taking in the entire scope of the game, it’s gonna be hard to beat

 

[Vick]

It's not just animations but visual feedback to me.

I wouldn't say ND games animations are better than say Rockstar's RDR2 for instance, at all, but they feel a million times more responsive/player driven and that makes all the difference in making you feel you're really into that world.
This is the reason I preferred Spyro to Crash in those days, but ever since the first Jak that's been one of the most important factors for Naughty Dog.

You feel in complete control of your characters little movements analog stick in hand, whereas Spider-Man or Ryse are QTE-like in this sense.

Of course the fact games like Uncharted and TLOU also have to work perfectly as competitive multiplayer titles plays a huge role in this, but I'm sure this level of motion blending on the fly doesn't come for free in terms of resources.

Again, personal preferences, but knowing how this feels to control while looking as seamless as it does, makes it better than the rest.

 

[Represent.]

Do people forget ubisoft

No ubisoft game will look better than GTA6

 

[ChiefDada]

Now these are the types of conversations that I love here. Solid points on all sides.

 

[rofif]

It's not just animations but visual feedback to me.

I wouldn't say ND games animations are better than say Rockstar's RDR2 for instance, at all, but they feel a million times more responsive/player driven and that makes all the difference in making you feel you're really into that world.
This is the reason I preferred Spyro to Crash in those days, but ever since the first Jak that's been one of the most important factors for Naughty Dog.

You feel in complete control of your characters little movements analog stick in hand, whereas Spider-Man or Ryse are QTE-like in this sense.

Of course the fact games like Uncharted and TLOU also have to work perfectly as competitive multiplayer titles plays a huge role in this, but I'm sure this level of motion blending on the fly doesn't come for free in terms of resources.

Again, personal preferences, but knowing how this feels to control while looking as seamless as it does, makes it better than the rest.

I can't stop looking at this water. It's so damn good.
I've noticed it in part 1 also (not my vid)

 

[SlimySnake]

Well two are Decima games, and one with character models never looking as good as ND cutscenes.
All three with severe/noticeable downgrades/inconsistencies compared to ND titles, Decima (which you know better than me being a whole decade newer than the ND Engine) in the lighting department, with complete lack of dynamic GI, lack of capsule AO etc., and GoW in animations, AI, vegetation and again lighting.
Nothing is free on Consoles.

If you think those games could have had better gameplay models and ND simply decided for no reason to downgrade aspects of them compared to the real-time cutscenes they made, not sure what kind of discussion we can have here.

On a next-gen title I would much rather have full Nanite-like geometry and inclusion of those wonderful secondary shadows from bounce light seen on Lumen GI to say one, than better looking models only seen by accessing Photo-Mode and zooming in.
But that's just me.

Of course, it's a balancing act. Thats why I excused the character models and other inconsistencies in shadows and level of detail back in 2020 when I rated it higher than cyberpunk for best graphics in 2020. I also consistently rate it higher than GOW 2018, HZD and Death Stranding. Because overall, I agreed that the compromises made were for the right reasons.

That said, its been 3 years, and we are now getting a next gen remaster. We just got a full blown next gen only remake where they did have the extra horsepower and did nothing with it to improve the character models. Again, all i wanted them to do was match the original gameplay trailer which did have great character model LODs for both Ellie and enemy NPCs. We didnt get it with TLOU1 and dont seem to be getting it now. They have no excuse today.

This is what she looked like during gameplay at the E3 2018 trailer.

This is the final game. Why not update this to have the hero lighting that was clearly being faked in the E3 2018 trailer with way higher fidelity character models?

, I truly hope and think that they took this long to show true ps5 showcase title because they developing new graphics engine for current gen and onward which will have graphics features similar to Lumen, Nanite , hero lighting and maybe new unknown graphics tech.

Same. I had hoped that we would see some of that tech in the TLOU remake a la the Spiderman remaster which was a test bench of sorts, but maybe by the time they took over the project from VSG it was too late.

And yes, their cutscenes are a league ahead of every else aside from kojiPro which had insane character models in cutscenes especially Diehardman and Mads in the final few cutscenes. However, I didnt feel the same jarring transitions for Death Stranding like I did with TLOU2 and especially TLOU1 which has some of the best cutscene graphics ive ever seen. I swear they felt like they were done by a different team. they look better than anything ive seen this gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

Maybe in a world where Death Stranding doesn't exist.
Take the intro, first BT encounter, hospital scene, any Cliff intro, the 90 minutes ending, hell, take your random pick, in terms of direction, framing, mo-cap direction, scene composition, Death Stranding is in a different league entirely.
As good as the characters are rendered in Tlou and Tlou2, the cutscene direction is 1st year film school student level at best.

Bonus game that destroys Tlou in terms of cinematic direction in every concievable way: DMC5.

Nah, while kojima's cutscenes are up there with the best, TLOU2 cutscene direction is absolutely fantastic. It's by no means amateurish.

In fact, the biggest praise i will give it is that they do several one shot takes in the game, but you hardly ever notice it like you do in gow, mgsv and most movies that completely take you out of it. the one shot cutscenes are used to immerse you into the story, not to have film school students jizz all over your movie game.

They have gotten a lot better with their framing and scene composition. TLOU remake uses pretty much the same scene composition and framing as the first game and you can see just how much better TLOU2's cutscenes look in comparison. they learned a lot in 7 years and it feels like a very tightly shot big budget tv show. And thats by design. The game's narrative is character focused, not setpiece focused. They purposefully keep the camera close to the characters at all time and that might fool some people into thinking its low budget or whatever, but its by design a la game of thrones or mad men where the characters are the star. Kojima goes for the movie feeling with his wide shots and hollywood/anime scene composition, but ND is no slouch and is simply going for a different feel. You can see the in the cinematography which rivals the biggest HBO shows.

 

[Vick]

I can't stop looking at this water. It's so damn good.
I've noticed it in part 1 also (not my vid)

Yeah it's much better than previous titles, but not quite yet the proper simulation as you can see it's flat at the end of the day.

I think I personally prefer RDR2 water interaction simply because of how massively displaced it gets, despite it being obviously much less refined. Some Ubisoft games also look legit amazing in this regard.

This is the final game. Why not update this to have the hero lighting that was clearly being faked in the E3 2018 trailer with way higher fidelity character models?

I guess because it's an absolutely insane amount of work for a Remaster like this to create thousands of iterations of semi-accurate looking hero lighting for thousands of variables, like the super specific example provided.
Also remember those discussions about Forbidden West we had at the time, many players absolutely hate hero lights.

About directing, those games including the 2013 OG shit all over the awarded HBO series in my opinion.
They just piss all over the series in just about every way to me, but whatever.

 

[Msamy]

Of course, it's a balancing act. Thats why I excused the character models and other inconsistencies in shadows and level of detail back in 2020 when I rated it higher than cyberpunk for best graphics in 2020. I also consistently rate it higher than GOW 2018, HZD and Death Stranding. Because overall, I agreed that the compromises made were for the right reasons.

That said, its been 3 years, and we are now getting a next gen remaster. We just got a full blown next gen only remake where they did have the extra horsepower and did nothing with it to improve the character models. Again, all i wanted them to do was match the original gameplay trailer which did have great character model LODs for both Ellie and enemy NPCs. We didnt get it with TLOU1 and dont seem to be getting it now. They have no excuse today.

This is what she looked like during gameplay at the E3 2018 trailer.

This is the final game. Why not update this to have the hero lighting that was clearly being faked in the E3 2018 trailer with way higher fidelity character models?

Same. I had hoped that we would see some of that tech in the TLOU remake a la the Spiderman remaster which was a test bench of sorts, but maybe by the time they took over the project from VSG it was too late.

And yes, their cutscenes are a league ahead of every else aside from kojiPro which had insane character models in cutscenes especially Diehardman and Mads in the final few cutscenes. However, I didnt feel the same jarring transitions for Death Stranding like I did with TLOU2 and especially TLOU1 which has some of the best cutscene graphics ive ever seen. I swear they felt like they were done by a different team. they look better than anything ive seen this gen.

I am 100 % with you let's hope that they will deliver what we expect from them and don't disappointed us in their next unannounced single player project .

 

[Turk1993]

You feel in complete control of your characters little movements analog stick in hand, whereas Spider-Man or Ryse are QTE-like in this sense.

Of course the fact games like Uncharted and TLOU also have to work perfectly as competitive multiplayer titles plays a huge role in this, but I'm sure this level of motion blending on the fly doesn't come for free in terms of resources.

Again, personal preferences, but knowing how this feels to control while looking as seamless as it does, makes it better than the rest.

Bruh did you play Spiderman 2? And in which world are TLOU and UC multiplayers competitive lol, TLOU 2 doesn't even have a multiplayer.


Also ND is not the only studio that have those type of cutscenes, there are lots of games that have similar quality cutscenes. Even GOW:R which got shit on in this thread have one of the best cutscenes which looks incredible. Yet we never claimed that it looked better than anything else. And that game has alot more going on in the cutscenes than TLOU 2 with even no camera cuts.

I know you guys are ND fanboys but come on man be realistic. You and ROFIF are always bringing up those games as if they are unbeatable or not been surpassed. You are even downplaying high quality charachter models in other games and calling people retards that expect them during gameplay in a graphics thread.

And yes, their cutscenes are a league ahead of every else aside from kojiPro which had insane character models in cutscenes especially Diehardman and Mads in the final few cutscenes. However, I didnt feel the same jarring transitions for Death Stranding like I did with TLOU2 and especially TLOU1 which has some of the best cutscene graphics ive ever seen. I swear they felt like they were done by a different team. they look better than anything ive seen this gen.

Slimy the second part is also for you.

 

[SlimySnake]

If you are factoring animations in graphics than Ryse and Spiderman are up there at the top. Imo animations are a different topic compared to pure visuals. Sure it makes it better and more believable, but that doesn't mean the graphics are better. Resolution, textures, reflections, shadows, lighting,.... are always the main discussion point in graphics not animations. But im all for better animations, its also one of the reason why Sony games look soo good in motion. They have that cinematic flavor and quality that other studios lack most of the time.

Yep. its a huge reason why Rockstar games and especially RDR2 were so well received. Animations to me are a huge part of the graphics going back to the very first uncharted. I remember ND talking about their animation blending system for Drake going from climbing to running then shooting and melee seamlessly and even back then, I was like this looks and feels so much better than Gears, Mass Effect and other third person games. They took it to another level with TLOU series while Ubisoft went in the complete opposite direction. AC2-AC Unity had some stunning animation work. They set that aside for the reboots and while they still had amazing vistas, ancient cities and some beautiful grass fields in Valhalla, they just are no longer thought of as the best of the best. And i think a lot of that has to do with how their animations are basically PS2 era nowadays.

I think cutscenes, setpieces, animations, production values, all matter when it comes to discussing graphics fidelity. Part of the reason KZ2 blew so many away were the gun sway and enemy animations. That gif of that helghast soldier reacting to bullets has an almost legendary status. Everything counts.

And yes, thats why i hold something like Spiderman 2 to such high regard. The setpieces are awe-inspiring and yes, no matter what Gymwolf says, they definitely count. Just like how the unfinished cutscenes and facial animations took away from the game's visuals. Everyone was in agreement that the cutscenes were unfinished, even Chiefdada. So if we are going to criticize a game for bad cutscenes and animations in a graphics thread then we should praise it when it does them right.

 

[Turk1993]

Yep. its a huge reason why Rockstar games and especially RDR2 were so well received. Animations to me are a huge part of the graphics going back to the very first uncharted. I remember ND talking about their animation blending system for Drake going from climbing to running then shooting and melee seamlessly and even back then, I was like this looks and feels so much better than Gears, Mass Effect and other third person games. They took it to another level with TLOU series while Ubisoft went in the complete opposite direction. AC2-AC Unity had some stunning animation work. They set that aside for the reboots and while they still had amazing vistas, ancient cities and some beautiful grass fields in Valhalla, they just are no longer thought of as the best of the best. And i think a lot of that has to do with how their animations are basically PS2 era nowadays.

I think cutscenes, setpieces, animations, production values, all matter when it comes to discussing graphics fidelity. Part of the reason KZ2 blew so many away were the gun sway and enemy animations. That gif of that helghast soldier reacting to bullets has an almost legendary status. Everything counts.

And yes, thats why i hold something like Spiderman 2 to such high regard. The setpieces are awe-inspiring and yes, no matter what Gymwolf says, they definitely count. Just like how the unfinished cutscenes and facial animations took away from the game's visuals. Everyone was in agreement that the cutscenes were unfinished, even Chiefdada. So if we are going to criticize a game for bad cutscenes and animations in a graphics thread then we should praise it when it does them right.

WTF the quality of those gifs look better than most youtube video's of SM2 lol.

 

[SABRE220]

Of course, it's a balancing act. Thats why I excused the character models and other inconsistencies in shadows and level of detail back in 2020 when I rated it higher than cyberpunk for best graphics in 2020. I also consistently rate it higher than GOW 2018, HZD and Death Stranding. Because overall, I agreed that the compromises made were for the right reasons.

That said, its been 3 years, and we are now getting a next gen remaster. We just got a full blown next gen only remake where they did have the extra horsepower and did nothing with it to improve the character models. Again, all i wanted them to do was match the original gameplay trailer which did have great character model LODs for both Ellie and enemy NPCs. We didnt get it with TLOU1 and dont seem to be getting it now. They have no excuse today.

This is what she looked like during gameplay at the E3 2018 trailer.

This is the final game. Why not update this to have the hero lighting that was clearly being faked in the E3 2018 trailer with way higher fidelity character models?

Same. I had hoped that we would see some of that tech in the TLOU remake a la the Spiderman remaster which was a test bench of sorts, but maybe by the time they took over the project from VSG it was too late.

And yes, their cutscenes are a league ahead of every else aside from kojiPro which had insane character models in cutscenes especially Diehardman and Mads in the final few cutscenes. However, I didnt feel the same jarring transitions for Death Stranding like I did with TLOU2 and especially TLOU1 which has some of the best cutscene graphics ive ever seen. I swear they felt like they were done by a different team. they look better than anything ive seen this gen.

Thats where im at aswell, there should be absolutely no excuse for the e3 trailer graphics to not be achieved on the ps5. There is more than enough power here, the assets are mostly available and all they need to is do more than the bare minimum of increasing the resolution...I mean look at what they did with the witcher 3 and this wouldnt need to be as comprehensive.

This would also be a good challenge and working experience for the so-called newbie team that ND apparently put on this.

 

[SlimySnake]

Slimy the second part is also for you.

Which part lol

 

[Turk1993]

Which part lol

Cutscenes in GOW:R

 

[SlimySnake]

Thats where im at aswell, there should be absolutely no excuse for the e3 trailer graphics to not be achieved on the ps5. There is more than enough power here, the assets are mostly available and all they need to is do more than the bare minimum of increasing the resolution...I mean look at what they did with the witcher 3 and this wouldnt need to be as comprehensive.

This would also be a good challenge and working experience for the so-called newbie team that ND apparently put on this.

yeah, the witcher 3 upgrade is amazing. sadly, its too amazing and it does not run well even on a 3080. its fine out in the open world and ray traced foliage is godly, but the cities and even small villages are straight up broken on modern cpus because they went too far with the enhanced NPCs. I had to downgrade it to medium but it really cuts down on the npc count and makes the world feel dead. it might run well on a 5090 and some 10 ghz CPU from the future so maybe they designed it knowing its not ready for modern hardware.

WTF the quality of those gifs look better than most youtube video's of SM2 lol.

its from sony's e3 trailer. just captured the gifs a few minutes ago. the trick is to capture them at a higher fps.

our uploads to youtube are destroyed upon uploading to youtube. my guess is sony's official channel is allowed a higher bitrate.

Cutscenes in GOW:R

Yeah, this shot of Ragnorak has been my wallpaper since last year so i hold it in high regard. However, id put it in the bottom half of my top 10 for best cutscenes. i think cutscenes in TLOU2, TLOU1, death stranding, alan wake 2, FF16, horizon fw, detroit, the quarry, ratchet rift apart, are all ahead of cutscenes in games like ragnorak, guardians of the galaxy, FF7, spiderman2 and re4. Stunning, but others are better.

 

[SlimySnake]

I guess because it's an absolutely insane amount of work for a Remaster like this to create thousands of iterations of semi-accurate looking hero lighting for thousands of variables, like the super specific example provided. Also remember those discussions about Forbidden West we had at the time, many players absolutely hate hero lights.

Nah, GG said its basically a rig that is on Aloy at all times. of course, its dynamic and not hand baked in. I know a few people dislike it but a few people dislike everything.

About directing, those games including the 2013 OG shit all over the awarded HBO series in my opinion.
They just piss all over the series in just about every way to me, but whatever.

This i agree with. The show was fucking awful in every way, but they ruined key moments with poor framing and terrible cinematography. Not to mention the delivery was all off. I hate that show for a passion. I have said this before, but it didnt feel like an HBO show to me. It felt very amatuerish and netflix-ish. And thats probably because it was a Sony show first and foremost so HBO likely just bought it. house of dragon shits on it from every angle. Whats funny is that the episode Neil himself directed was the best directed one. So he's clearly better than the directors Sony pictures hired to make this show.

 

[Vick]

Bruh did you play Spiderman 2?

No, but played the shit out of the first one. Transitions between animations/input are super jarring, not even near ND titles. You have no control whatsoever for the in-between animations.

Now if this changed in the second, I don't know. Nor care, not interested in the game.

And in which world are TLOU and UC multiplayers competitive lol

Huh?

Are you trolling or is this urge of yours to downplay ND messing with your brain?




Uncharted 4 multi is still played to this day because no third person controls like this.

TLOU 2 doesn't even have a multiplayer.

Again, what the hell?
The first does, still played after ten whole fucking years. And the second shipped with full intentions and promise to add the Factions portion later on. Which would be of course built on top of the single player mechanics, as always with ND multiplayer components.

I know you guys are ND fanboys but come on man be realistic. You and ROFIF are always bringing up those games as if they are unbeatable or not been surpassed. You are even downplaying high quality charachter models in other games and calling people retards that expect them during gameplay in a graphics thread.

Buddy, I don't really think you're familiar with me by calling me a ND fanboy.. all I did for the past four years is shitting on basically everything this studio did.
I don't think there's a single user on this Forum who dedicated as many detailed posts with the sole purpose of shitting and criticizing Part II in particular and his writer/director, even making multiple Threads with this sole purpose..

Fuck it man, people like you are the reason I stopped discussing "exclusives" on this Forum.
Stupid me for forgetting such a fundemental rule of GAF.

 

[Represent.]

Yep. its a huge reason why Rockstar games and especially RDR2 were so well received. Animations to me are a huge part of the graphics going back to the very first uncharted. I remember ND talking about their animation blending system for Drake going from climbing to running then shooting and melee seamlessly and even back then, I was like this looks and feels so much better than Gears, Mass Effect and other third person games. They took it to another level with TLOU series while Ubisoft went in the complete opposite direction. AC2-AC Unity had some stunning animation work. They set that aside for the reboots and while they still had amazing vistas, ancient cities and some beautiful grass fields in Valhalla, they just are no longer thought of as the best of the best. And i think a lot of that has to do with how their animations are basically PS2 era nowadays.

I think cutscenes, setpieces, animations, production values, all matter when it comes to discussing graphics fidelity. Part of the reason KZ2 blew so many away were the gun sway and enemy animations. That gif of that helghast soldier reacting to bullets has an almost legendary status. Everything counts.

And yes, thats why i hold something like Spiderman 2 to such high regard. The setpieces are awe-inspiring and yes, no matter what Gymwolf says, they definitely count. Just like how the unfinished cutscenes and facial animations took away from the game's visuals. Everyone was in agreement that the cutscenes were unfinished, even Chiefdada. So if we are going to criticize a game for bad cutscenes and animations in a graphics thread then we should praise it when it does them right.

how the fuck did you make these gifs lol

 

[ChiefDada]

how the fuck did you make these gifs lol

Slimy = Musilla confirmed lol

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Nah, GG said its basically a rig that is on Aloy at all times. of course, its dynamic and not hand baked in. I know a few people dislike it but a few people dislike everything.

This i agree with. The show was fucking awful in every way, but they ruined key moments with poor framing and terrible cinematography. Not to mention the delivery was all off. I hate that show for a passion. I have said this before, but it didnt feel like an HBO show to me. It felt very amatuerish and netflix-ish. And thats probably because it was a Sony show first and foremost so HBO likely just bought it. house of dragon shits on it from every angle. Whats funny is that the episode Neil himself directed was the best directed one. So he's clearly better than the directors Sony pictures hired to make this show.

Poor framing and cinematography.... we gotta a real Hitchcock here folks!] And it was 100% an HBO show from the ground up. It had a 200 million dollar budget and some of the best sets and practical effects of any show in recent memory

 

[Vick]

I remember ND talking about their animation blending system for Drake going from climbing to running then shooting and melee seamlessly and even back then, I was like this looks and feels so much better than Gears, Mass Effect and other third person games. They took it to another level with TLOU series while Ubisoft went in the complete opposite direction.

Days Gone of all games kinda got close to that kind of fluidity for the flow shoot-melee-roll to be fair. Just close though.

Poor framing and cinematography.... we gotta a real Hitchcock here folks!] And it was 100% an HBO show from the ground up. It had a 200 million dollar budget and some of the best sets and practical effects of any show in recent memory

The lamb PTSD scene in the second game is leagues above any single thing in the show. And many, but not all apparently, know how much I hate that fucking game.

 

[Masterofchapter]

No ubisoft game will look better than GTA6

I doubt gta 6 will looks anywhere as good as frontiers of Pandora or star wars outlaws, because of scope and complex ai, not to mention splinter cell remake linear game probably going to eat gta 6 out

 

[Turk1993]

No, but played the shit out of the first one. Transitions between animations/input are super jarring, not even near ND titles. You have no control whatsoever for the in-between animations.

Now if this changed in the second, I don't know. Nor care, not interested in the game.

So you call a games gameplay QTE like and you didn't even play it cool.

Huh?

Are you trolling or is this urge of yours to downplay ND messing with your brain?




Uncharted 4 multi is still played to this day because no third person controls like this.

Is that what you call competitive multiplayer, and than the audacity to call me trolling lol. The multiplayer was soo good and competitive that they have exluded it from the remaster in a time where multiplayer games are banging and Sony are heavily investing.

Again, what the hell?
The first does, still played after ten whole fucking years. And the second shipped with full intentions and promise to add the Factions portion later on. Which would be of course built on top of the single player mechanics, as always with ND multiplayer components.

So assumptions on empty promises, nice. The game launched in 2020 an we are almost 2024, yet have to see this "competitive multiplayer".

Buddy, I don't really think you're familiar with me by calling me a ND fanboy.. all I did for the past four years is shitting on basically everything this studio did.
I don't think there's a single user on this Forum who dedicated as many detailed posts with the sole purpose of shitting and criticizing Part II in particular and his writer/director, even making multiple Threads with this sole purpose..

You guys are spamming ND games left and right on this forum, don't act like that shit is not true. You did the same in CP2077 and RT thread. You think they are unbeatable and are leagues ahead of anybody. Bro you called people stupid and amateurs that wanted high quality characters.

Fuck it man, people like you are the reason I stopped discussing "exclusives" on this Forum.
Stupid me for forgetting such a fundemental rule of GAF.

What do you mean people like "you". Its actually because people like you we are getting lazy remasters from top devs with barely any improvements because you guys are happy with anything they throw at you.

 

[adamsapple]

I doubt gta 6 will looks anywhere as good as frontiers of Pandora or star wars outlaws, because of scope and complex ai, not to mention splinter cell remake linear game probably going to eat gta 6 out

They made GTA 5 come out, and look as good as it did, on the PS3 with 256MB VRAM, and RDR2 @ native 4K on One X which trumped most other games in that window with linear focuses. Enough time and budget is a great boon.

 

[Masterofchapter]

They made GTA 5 come out, and look as good as it did, on the PS3 with 256MB VRAM, and RDR2 @ native 4K on One X which trumped most other games in that window with linear focuses. Enough time and budget is a great boon.

And Assassin's creed black flag looks way better than gta 6 at time it released not to mention watch dogs we will see can it atleast match avatar

 

[ChiefDada]

Even GOW:R which got shit on in this thread have one of the best cutscenes which looks incredible.

GOW Ragnarok cutscenes are stunning and I personally would only place FFXVI above. We should not be underestimating what SSM can deliver with PS5 only DLC.

This game runs 1440p 80-90fps in performance mode and uncapped fidelity 1872-4k 40-50fps. The image quality difference between fidelity and performance mode is nearly imperceptible thanks to SSM superb TAAU and ML based texture upsampling. 80-90fps is roughly 11ms. Imagine what the PS5 CPU/GPU can render with 2-3x the frame budget if they targeted dynamic 1440p-4k 30fps in a PS5 only DLC or sequel? Certainly that is enough for high quality RT shadows and reflections.

Also, we were talking about art vs tech vs production value earlier. This scene (and most others in GoW Ragnarok) has it all.

 

[Vick]

So you call a games gameplay QTE like and you didn't even play it cool.

Whatever.

Not like I simply said the game controls are more "QTE-like in this sense" compared to a completely different apporach to animations/motion matching, after playing hundreds of hours of the first iteration. But let's play dumb.

Is that what you call competitive multiplayer, and than the audacity to call me trolling lol. The multiplayer was soo good and competitive that they have exluded it from the remaster in a time where multiplayer games are banging and Sony are heavily investing.

Yeah, not looking like you're scrambling to provide a somewhat coherent response after that bizzare reality-denying post. Not at all.

Command Mode, Ranked/Team Deathmatch, Plunder Mode:

"In which world are UC multiplayers competitive lol"

Whatever man.

So assumptions on empty promises, nice. The game launched in 2020 an we are almost 2024, yet have to see this "competitive multiplayer".

Completely irrelevant to what I actually said, as expected. They built the game mechanics expecting them to be used in the separate competitive Multiplayer portion, as every previous ND title since 2009.

You guys are spamming ND games left and right on this forum, don't act like that shit is not true. You did the same in CP2077 and RT thread. You think they are unbeatable and are leagues ahead of anybody. Bro you called people stupid and amateurs that wanted high quality characters.

Sure, let's pretend this studio isn't considered best in class by the damn industry and devs alike when it comes to elements such as the ones discussed here.

Now I know we shouldn't acknowledge ND accomplishments in graphics/tech inside of graphics/tech discussions.

What do you mean people like "you". Its actually because people like you we are getting lazy remasters from top devs with barely any improvements because you guys are happy with anything they throw at you.

Analysis - Not even Naughty Dog can Remaster their own games

Porting games like Uncharted 4 is not an easy task, to say the least. Especially in a relatively short time, and especially if bundled with titles such as The Lost Legacy. However, i find fascinating how nobody spotted the huge number of little downgrades the games got in the Legacy of Thieves...

www.neogaf.com

We can end this discussion here as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SlimySnake]

Poor framing and cinematography.... we gotta a real Hitchcock here folks!] And it was 100% an HBO show from the ground up. It had a 200 million dollar budget and some of the best sets and practical effects of any show in recent memory

The first season of The Last of Us was filmed in Alberta from July 2021 to June 2022, while the second season is set to begin filming in British Columbia in January 2024. It is the first HBO series based on a video game, and is a joint production by Sony Pictures Television, PlayStation Productions, Naughty Dog, the Mighty Mint, and Word Games.

he show was announced as a joint production of Sony Pictures Television, PlayStation Productions, and Naughty Dog;[70] it is the first show produced by PlayStation Productions.[61][71] It is produced under the company name Bear and Pear Productions.[

HBO bought it and financed it. but its a sony pictures and PlayStation productions show.

And this final shot shows just how poor the framing is compared to the games. The poor girl already has a big forehead and isnt the most attractive girl on the block and they shoot her from that terrible angle.

the david scene is the same. the game has better cinematography.

the cinematography is excellent at times, and really bad other times. if its a $200 million show, it doesnt show it. The episode Neil directed felt like an expensive show, but the other episodes felt like a amazon studios show. the show peaked at the big setpiece at the end of the sam and henry episode, and simply didnt have the budget to do anymore big setpieces. what was worse was that they couldnt even get the cinematography right in the crucial ranch scene and the winter setpieces.

This doesnt look like a $200 million show to me.