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[Represent.]

I doubt gta 6 will looks anywhere as good as frontiers of Pandora or star wars outlaws, because of scope and complex ai, not to mention splinter cell remake linear game probably going to eat gta 6 out

You're wrong, but honestly if you were right about this I'd probably quit gaming. at least for a bit. Avatar looks good, but GTA6 will have no problem blasting it to bits with a Kamehameha wave

Visually, scope, ai, physics, textures, lighting, weather systems, you name it, GTA6 will do it better than avatar

 

[SlimySnake]

how the fuck did you make these gifs lol

Im just the messenger. Insomniacs made the game look this good. Just think. If they were given enough time, every cutscene wouldve looked this good.

 

[Masterofchapter]

You're wrong, but honestly if you were right about this I'd probably quit gaming. at least for a bit. Avatar looks good, but GTA6 will have no problem blasting it to bits with a Kamehameha wave

Visually, scope, ai, physics, textures, lighting, weather systems, you name it, GTA6 will do it better than avatar

We will see when game releases, and ask rockstar to make water half as good as ubisoft, make combat actually engaging and oh for make sure characters are good to control

 

[arkhamguy123]

Im just the messenger. Insomniacs made the game look this good. Just think. If they were given enough time, every cutscene wouldve looked this good.

And if they were given even more time it could’ve looked like a generational leap

They’re reputation as “woah they’re so quick” “wow they’re so fast” is becoming a double edged sword

 

[Balducci30]

There is no crazy gulf. Vick posted screenshots. Game looks just as good in gameplay with some obvious lod tricks which might get fixed and worse models which are usually less detailed around the face which barely matters in gameplay

Idk I’m watching the trailer they used to advertise the remaster - the gameplay sections look decidedly last gen. The lighting and character models just aren’t there - not that we’ve gone that far this gen - but it actually illustrated to me seeing that trailer that we have at least made some progress cus it doesn’t look like a ps5 game in the gameplay sections.

Animation is great tho still (although not the level of the reveal trailer).

 

[SlimySnake]

lol callisto looks great but the character model is just insane. Both during cutscenes and gameplay. Iut sucks that they gave him a prison haircut after the intro because he looked way better with hair.

Second shot is gameplay. Had to record in photomode because motion blur kept activating when i would take screenshots. But it really goes look like this during gameplay.

Here are some other games character models during gameplay.

ND really needs to step their game up when it comes to character models during gameplay.

 

[Vick]

Callisto Protocol looks great in general. Before I actually played I remember even agreeing with someone calling its Resolution Mode the best graphics so far because the DF video impressed me so much.
After trying it though I think something's off with their PBR as it gave me a next-gen version of the "UE3 look" vibe where every surface/material looks and behaves similarly.

ND really needs to step their game up when it comes to character models during gameplay.

No need to get so comically disingenuos though..

It's a 2016 Eighth Generation Custom Built Model vs 2023 Ninth Generation Scanned Actor afterall.

 

[ChiefDada]

Kratos in game character model is fantastic.

 

[ChiefDada]

Finally got around to Immortals of Aveum via game trial. It looked mediocre. The image quality was surprisingly not bad at all. But for all the talk about lumen and nanite implementation in this game from the developers.... man I don't care what buzzword tech it's using the game's visuals were very meh. I can't believe DF hyped this game up so much.

 

[SlimySnake]

Callisto Protocol looks great in general. Before I actually played I remember even agreeing with someone calling its Resolution Mode the best graphics so far because the DF video impressed me so much.
After trying it though I think something's off with their PBR as it gave me a next-gen version of the "UE3 look" vibe where every surface/material looks and behaves similarly.


No need to get so comically disingenuos though..

It's a 2016 Eighth Generation Custom Built Model vs 2023 Ninth Generation Scanned Actor afterall.

I literally took that screenshot yesterday along with the others. How is that disingenuous? My entire point is that their lods are too aggressive for what feels like 99% of the time during normal gameplay. We did this yesterday my man. During normal gameplay when you are not zooming in the character models simply don’t look good. That’s not the case for other games. This is not that hard.

 

[Vick]

I literally took that screenshot yesterday along with the others. How is that disingenuous? My entire point is that their lods are too aggressive for what feels like 99% of the time during normal gameplay. We did this yesterday my man.

It's disingenuos because you're comparing a close shot of a literal dark corridor to a distant shot of a daylight open world level in Uncharted..
Games seven years apart and from different generations at that. In similar circumstances to Callisto Protocol Uncharted 4 looks obviously drastically different as evidently shown.

Were the machines more performant in 2016 or Naughty Dog Engine differently wired you'd get the same level of detail on the model independent of how taxing the rest is.
Common sense man.

This is not that hard.

Not that hard indeed.

 

[SlimySnake]

It's disingenuos because you're comparing a close shot of a literal dark corridor to a distant shot of a daylight open world level in Uncharted..
Games seven years apart and from different generations at that. In similar circumstances to Callisto Protocol Uncharted 4 looks obviously drastically different as evidently shown.

Were the machines more performant in 2016 or Naughty Dog Engine differently wired you'd get the same level of detail on the model independent of how taxing the rest is.
Common sense man, not that hard indeed.

No i am comparing what it is like to play these games 99% of the time while you are zooming into their faces which almost never happens.

I literally went in and took those screenshots yesterday by starting each of those games and talking the screenshot from whatever level loaded. I don’t have tlou2 installed so used the screenshot i had on file. All i did was turn the camera around for each game. Tlou2, gow and callisto have characters closest to the camera but u can tell that gow and callisto have far more detail than abby. Drake vs aloy isn’t even close.

What’s disingenuous is what you and musilla do which is to put Drake and Ellie right up there with the camera next to lamps or torches to give them hero lighting which is absent 99% of the time. Which is hilarious because that’s exactly what i want. I want that lod at all times with that kind of hero lighting. That’s my entire point but you can’t seem to get it.

 

[Hugare]

Of course, it's a balancing act. Thats why I excused the character models and other inconsistencies in shadows and level of detail back in 2020 when I rated it higher than cyberpunk for best graphics in 2020. I also consistently rate it higher than GOW 2018, HZD and Death Stranding. Because overall, I agreed that the compromises made were for the right reasons.

That said, its been 3 years, and we are now getting a next gen remaster. We just got a full blown next gen only remake where they did have the extra horsepower and did nothing with it to improve the character models. Again, all i wanted them to do was match the original gameplay trailer which did have great character model LODs for both Ellie and enemy NPCs. We didnt get it with TLOU1 and dont seem to be getting it now. They have no excuse today.

This is what she looked like during gameplay at the E3 2018 trailer.

This is the final game. Why not update this to have the hero lighting that was clearly being faked in the E3 2018 trailer with way higher fidelity character models?

Same. I had hoped that we would see some of that tech in the TLOU remake a la the Spiderman remaster which was a test bench of sorts, but maybe by the time they took over the project from VSG it was too late.

And yes, their cutscenes are a league ahead of every else aside from kojiPro which had insane character models in cutscenes especially Diehardman and Mads in the final few cutscenes. However, I didnt feel the same jarring transitions for Death Stranding like I did with TLOU2 and especially TLOU1 which has some of the best cutscene graphics ive ever seen. I swear they felt like they were done by a different team. they look better than anything ive seen this gen.

Their "excuse" is that hero lighting can look broken in some places, giving an unnatural look.

One example is that second Horizon shot that you posted here. It looks totally incorrect. Alloy is glowing indoors.

Since it's more of a fantasy game when compared to TLOU, with a more stylised look in terms of lighting and environments, its ok. But in TLOW those instances where it doesnt look right would look horrible.

In the 2018 demo they pulled it off 'cause it was a controlled environment. But making it work in a 25h with no faults would be a different story. Too many different lighting conditions to make it work.

You didnt feel the same with DS because that game has what, one time of day basically? I'm exaggerating, but lighting is very samey 'cause there arent many changes to lighting conditions. And Sam is the only character that you see outdoors. With the exception of enemies that are using hazmat suits

GOW Ragnarok, for example, also didnt have hero lighting on Kratos, and there are instances where he looks horrible lit under certain lighting conditions.

Its not as simple as flipping a switch. I doubt that even ND's next gen game will have hero lighting.

And would it need to? Alan Wake II, Cyberpunk, Spider-man 2, the best looking games of the gen doesnt have it and they are fine

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Its not as simple as fipping a switch. I doubt that even ND's next gen game will have hero lighting.

And would it need to? Alan Wake II, Cyberpunk, the best looking games of the gen doesnt have it and they are fine

I wonder how hero lighting in a first person game would look like.

 

[Vick]

No i am comparing what it is like to play these games 99% of the time while you are zooming into their faces which almost never happens.

I literally went in and took those screenshots yesterday by starting each of those games and talking the screenshot from whatever level loaded. I don’t have tlou2 installed so used the screenshot i had on file. All i did was turn the camera around for each game. Tlou2, gow and callisto have characters closest to the camera but u can tell that gow and callisto have far more detail than abby. Drake vs aloy isn’t even close.

But you chose that level of Uncharted for the screenshot while typing "ND really needs to step their game up when it comes to character models during gameplay." and that just seems hilarious to me when 70% of the game is spent in confined spaces much more similar to Callisto Protocol where the Nate model looks generations ahead.

It reads as if you were implying that's the max ND could achieve with their gameplay models, hence why I said disingenous.
But knowing you it was surely in good faith so whatever.

What’s disingenuous is what you and musilla do which is to put Drake and Ellie right up there with the camera next to lamps or torches to give them hero lighting which is absent 99% of the time.

No "hero lighting" whatsoever in the shots I posted though, just legit light sources present in the enviroment not different at all from your Callisto shot, not sure how on earth that would be disingenous..

Here no direct light source on faces at all:

Which is hilarious because that’s exactly what i want. I want that lod at all times with that kind of hero lighting. That’s my entire point but you can’t seem to get it.

I totally get it, just trying to explain to you that if that was possible or what ND agreed was prioritary you would have gotten that already..

Simply because they already made arguably some of the best models ever, and gave them to you in gameplay whenever it was possible.

 

[Hugare]

I wonder how hero lighting in a first person game would look like.

You see your character in some cutscenes, mirrors, while riding a bike and photo mode

Not to mention NPCs

People cared so much about how they look that CDPR introduced transmog in a patch, and removed stats from clothes so people could wear what they want in 2.0

 

[SlimySnake]

But you chose that level of Uncharted for the screenshot while typing "ND really needs to step their game up when it comes to character models during gameplay." and that just seems hilarious to me when 70% of the game is spent in confined spaces much more similar to Callisto Protocol where the Nate model looks generations ahead.

It reads as if you were implying that's the max ND could achieve with their gameplay models, hence why I said disingenous.
But knowing you it was surely in good faith so whatever.


No "hero lighting" whatsoever in the shots I posted though, just legit light sources present in the enviroment not different at all from your Callisto shot, not sure how on earth that would be disingenous..

Here no direct light source on faces at all:

I totally get it, just trying to explain to you that if that was possible or what ND agreed was prioritary you would have gotten that already..

Simply because they already made arguably some of the best models ever, and given them to you in gameplay whenever it was possible.

lol 70% of uncharted 4 isn’t in confined places. And even when it is set indoors the game’s fov remains the same. You still have to go up against the wall to get the highest lod models which is something that almost never happens.

And did you just say that the uncharted 4 models look generations ahead of callisto’s?

 

[Hugare]

If you are factoring animations in graphics than Ryse and Spiderman are up there at the top. Imo animations are a different topic compared to pure visuals. Sure it makes it better and more believable, but that doesn't mean the graphics are better. Resolution, textures, reflections, shadows, lighting,.... are always the main discussion point in graphics not animations. But im all for better animations, its also one of the reason why Sony games look soo good in motion. They have that cinematic flavor and quality that other studios lack most of the time.

They dont blend so good tho (specially in Rise)

These are combos that has zero input from the player. They are cutscenes in everything but name

During actual gameplay, Ryse is junky. It looks great in general, but animations are very stuttery and gamey

Spider-man 2 is better, much better, but I wouldnt put it nowhere near TLOU 2 in terms of blending and fluidity

Tons of instances where you are transported to a button that you have to press and etc.

 

[Vick]

And did you just say that the uncharted 4 models look generations ahead of callisto’s?

No.
I said that this:

Looks generations ahead of this:

But you just don't seem in great shape today so I'll leave you to it.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

You see your character in some cutscenes, mirrors, while riding a bike and photo mode

Not to mention NPCs

Well that would be a waste of time to implement. Also, shouldn’t hero lighting apply to the main character and not NPCs?

 

[Hugare]

Well that would be a waste of time to implement. Also, shouldn’t hero lighting apply to the main character and not NPCs?

Dont know why we are arguing about this when my whole point was that Cyberpunk didnt need this to look great

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Dont know why we are arguing about this when my whole point was that Cyberpunk didnt need this to look great

Because it’s w first person game so you couldn’t pick a worse example to prove whatever point you were making.

 

[SlimySnake]

Because it’s w first person game so you couldn’t pick a worse example to prove whatever point you were making.

Jesus christ lmao. Its just one example. hes picking what is arguably the best looking game this gen to show why hero lighting isnt a big deal in every game. i get what hes trying to say .... cut him some slack lol

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Jesus christ lmao. Its just one example. hes picking what is arguably the best looking game this gen to show why hero lighting isnt a big deal in every game. i get what hes trying to say .... cut him some slack lol

We were discussing importance of hero character lighting in 3rd person games so sorry but bringing first person game as an example is silly at best.

 

[Vick]

Just realized I typed "disingenuous" wrong four damn times in the span of three messages while accusing Snake of not being in good shape..

 

[analog_future]

The TLOU defense force in here is so weird.


No one is saying the game looks bad, ya'll. It's okay to admit that it's starting to be surpassed by modern games. That's a GOOD thing that we should celebrate.

 

[SlimySnake]

No.
I said that this:

Looks generations ahead of this:

But you just don't seem in great shape today so I'll leave you to it.

Ok i misunderstood what you were saying but here in lies the issue. By your own account, there is a generational gap between the two character models within the SAME GAME. That should never happen. I dont want Drake going from looking like a PS5 character model to a PS3 character model just because i am not next to a lamp or holding a flaming torch pressed up against a wall to get the highest quality LOD.

I want it to be consistent and while I was willing to let it slide last gen because they only had 1.8 tlfops to work with, these remasters and remakes have a lot more headroom to do what GG did. And I dont just mean hero lighting.

 

[Hugare]

We were discussing importance of hero character lighting in 3rd person games so sorry but bringing first person game as an example is silly at best.

Didnt know the discussion was this much specific

Ok, so ignore my bad example and consider all the other best looking 3rd person games on the market not named Horizon

 

[Vick]

Ok i misunderstood what you were saying but here in lies the issue. By your own account, there is a generational gap between the two character models within the SAME GAME. That should never happen. I dont want Drake going from looking like a PS5 character model to a PS3 character model just because i am not next to a lamp or holding a flaming torch pressed up against a wall to get the highest quality LOD.

But that simply happens because available resources change based on the circumstances.. that's the point I'm trying to make.

Drake model appearing less microdetailed while seen far away from the camera in an open driving level vs more linear sections/closer to the camera is pure optimization, as ND evidently decided that keeping the amount of idle animations, cloth/rope simulations, red GI bouncing from the ground and illuminating their model was more important than having max LOD for every aspect of the model in that particular instance.

But as you say compromises shouldn't be as noticeable on current gen machines.

I want it to be consistent and while I was willing to let it slide last gen because they only had 1.8 tlfops to work with, these remasters and remakes have a lot more headroom to do what GG did. And I dont just mean hero lighting.

Not so sure about that, if you remember this post:

I liked this post but only based on hopes and dreams.

I wish I could share your optimism about the bolded, and when you wish you had SlimySnake optimism you know something's fucking wrong.

In Part I they finally added PCSS-like shadows, and better shadows were the only noticeable visual element in need for a serious upgrade.
They also used a really, really good DoF in Part I.. I think they simply took advantage of PS5 extra power to fix their weaknesses and are now satisfied about how their games can look and run, also at 60fps.
I mean Druckmann literally just said about Part I "At times I'm thinking -I can't believe what I'm playing-".. just shut the fuck up Neil, have you missed UE5 on PS5?

And then there's the major thing: Naughty Dog engine has been just ported to PC after more than a decade. And we know it must have been a nightmare (partially confirmed by the consistent delay of the Legacy of Thieves collection), I can easily see them keep using it for the rest of the Gen. Especially considering the need for PC ports this time which is something they'll 100% keep in mind when designing new games.

A new Engine made specifically for the PS5 using "fancy tech like Lumens, nanite and ray tracing", later to be ported all over again on PC? I just don't see it at all.
And that's the same for every single Sony First Party with engines just landed on PC.
That's the main reason I haven't been over the moon about all this PC support, not because of the retarded "You just don't want others to enjoy the toys you enjoy" which if anything has been a blessing to read less salty trolling and constant downplaying of masterpieces by sad individuals, but because Sony focus on PC instead of a single, custom machine with single specs would have obviously led to this scenario.

I don't know, I hope I'm wrong of course. But not a single PS5 "exclusive" managed to impress me as much as launch or close to launch PS4 exclusives. Those were the best available at the time and then some, and that's not the case this time because we know more can be achieved on Cerny's machine.


Yep, that's the thing. I'd kill for another Uncharted, but it's really Drake or bust for me.
Or at the very least young Sully.

You know I'm not optimistic at all in regards to ND Engine supposed headroom.

 

[SlimySnake]

Their "excuse" is that hero lighting can look broken in some places, giving an unnatural look.

Thats because people have no idea how movies and video game cutscenes are made. Almost every movie has point lighting to illuminate characters. Artificial lights added to ensure you see the characters in the best light at all times. Games do this too. Its why cutscenes look so much better than gameplay. they add artificial hero lighting to the cutscenes, so why not during gameplay? Why should there be one rule for cutscenes and another for gameplay? Especially when the cutscenes look a generation ahead of gameplay like TLOU1.

BTW, ND had hero lighting during gameplay sections in their TLOU2 trailer. especially in this scene. No one cared or called it out as out of place.

One example is that second Horizon shot that you posted here. It looks totally incorrect. Alloy is glowing indoors.

Yeah, i believe thats from when i got the game to glitch and enabled the hero lighting. it happens only in certain spots. the rest of the time, the hero lighting isnt as obvious especially since they toned it down after fuckers like John and Alex complained.

Since it's more of a fantasy game when compared to TLOU, with a more stylised look in terms of lighting and environments, its ok. But in TLOW those instances where it doesnt look right would look horrible.

In the 2018 demo they pulled it off 'cause it was a controlled environment. But making it work in a 25h with no faults would be a different story. Too many different lighting conditions to make it work.

You didnt feel the same with DS because that game has what, one time of day basically? I'm exaggerating, but lighting is very samey 'cause there arent many changes to lighting conditions. And Sam is the only character that you see outdoors. With the exception of enemies that are using hazmat suits

But DS is mostly set under cloudy conditions just like TLOU2. Its also got baked lighting like DS1. Kojima has just always used higher quality models going all the way back to MGS2.

GOW Ragnarok, for example, also didnt have hero lighting on Kratos, and there are instances where he looks horrible lit under certain lighting conditions.

This is true but the character model still looks more detailed than uncharted 4, tlou2 and tlou1 remake. you can make out each individual textures on his suit where as in tlou2 and tlou1 remake especially they blend in. the shit blends in with the backpack and the jeans barely stand out.

Both screenshots below are in shadows. No sunlight or hero light. Kratos just has more character detail.

once you leave shadows, its a blowout in terms of level of detail.

Its not as simple as flipping a switch. I doubt that even ND's next gen game will have hero lighting.

And would it need to? Alan Wake II, Cyberpunk, Spider-man 2, the best looking games of the gen doesnt have it and they are fine

Hero lighting is only one thing. Alan Wake 2 doesnt use hero lighting. Callisto doesnt either. I want the remasters to have it because as you can see from Vick's and Musilla's screenshots, the character models look best. But if its computationally expensive then id just want them to include higher quality character models like we see in AW2, Callisto, and HFW without the hero lighting.

FF16 also has great character models that dont loo too different from cutscenes.

Meanwhile TLOU.... even when zoomed in.

Cutscenes:

They dont have to look identical. they just need to come close.

 

[GymWolf]

All gameplay.

From my last session. Yes, you can find areas that look stunning, especially some of the foliage in more closed-off sections. But more often than not it looks painfully last-gen during normal play.

Is there an official list of improvements that 'remaster' will have?

• A host of graphical improvements bring the beautiful-yet-dangerous world to life.

Not sure about your confusion.

 

[Vick]

This is a good example of what ND considered an appropriate use of PS5 extra power when it comes to gameplay model's fidelity, without bothing investing in major changes for their Engine.

Higher resolution, twice the framerate, more physics, better assets, PCSS. Not sure we could expect much more from their games this Gen but maybe I'm just pessimistic.

 

[GymWolf]

This looks hot!

Hot shit, i agree.

 

[amigastar]

Currently playing Half Life Alyx on VR. The graphics are amazing and so is are the physics. Never thought a VR game could look this good.

 

[GymWolf]

I know i'm a broken record, but whoever enjoy meaty gunplay (and melee) should REALLY play warhammer darktide.

I could not care less for the online part or the mission structure or anything else, it just feels incredible to kill stuff in this game.

This is even better than robocop feeling wise (except for the inferior blood effects)

 

[Vick]

• A host of graphical improvements bring the beautiful-yet-dangerous world to life.

Not sure about your confusion.

Jokes aside, this is the official list:

"Increased texture resolution, increased Level-of-Detail distances, improved shadow quality, animation sampling rate, and more."

An example of different LOD and shadows/occlusion can be seen here a bit:

Resolution, AF and textures bump here:



Nothing major at all so far.
No improved Nanite-like geometry is the biggest bummer but I highly doubt their Engine could be capable of something even close to that for a comparable performance hit, and for damn sure not while reatroactively working on a Remastered previous-gen code.

 

[rofif]

Jokes aside, this is the official list:

"Increased texture resolution, increased Level-of-Detail distances, improved shadow quality, animation sampling rate, and more."

An example of different LOD and shadows/occlusion can be seen here a bit:

Resolution, AF and textures bump here:



Nothing major at all so far.
No improved Nanite-like geometry is the biggest bummer but I highly doubt their Engine could be capable of something even close to that for a comparable performance hit, and for damn sure not while reatroactively working on a Remastered previous-gen code.

I am afraid they will make the same mistakes as they did in uc4.
That remaster is amazing 4k40, 60fps but imperfections you showed me... it's your fault. I now always see Nadine stupid broken hair
I want to replay it (I do it yearly or more) and next time I am considering ps4 pro version

 

[Vick]

I am afraid they will make the same mistakes as they did in uc4.
That remaster is amazing 4k40, 60fps but imperfections you showed me... it's your fault. I now always see nadide stupid broken hair

Let's hope they don't buddy.
Afterall I'm sure this game means alot more to current ND than the catholic straight masculine protagonist one..

I want to replay it (I do it yearly or more) and next time I am considering ps4 pro version

Well this time there's always the OG version already running at 60fps as a perfect backup in case of problems.

 

[GymWolf]

Jokes aside, this is the official list:

"Increased texture resolution, increased Level-of-Detail distances, improved shadow quality, animation sampling rate, and more."

An example of different LOD and shadows/occlusion can be seen here a bit:

Resolution, AF and textures bump here:



Nothing major at all so far.
No improved Nanite-like geometry is the biggest bummer but I highly doubt their Engine could be capable of something even close to that for a comparable performance hit, and for damn sure not while reatroactively working on a Remastered previous-gen code.

Night and day difference going by that gif...

 

[analog_future]

Jokes aside, this is the official list:

"Increased texture resolution, increased Level-of-Detail distances, improved shadow quality, animation sampling rate, and more."

An example of different LOD and shadows/occlusion can be seen here a bit:

Resolution, AF and textures bump here:



Nothing major at all so far.
No improved Nanite-like geometry is the biggest bummer but I highly doubt their Engine could be capable of something even close to that for a comparable performance hit, and for damn sure not while reatroactively working on a Remastered previous-gen code.

Eh, even in this one comparison gif I see a lot of significant improvements.

Shadows/ambient occlusion look significantly improved. Look at the rocks on the bottom right. Foliage/tree quality looks noticeably improved. Look at the trees in the distance on the middle/right side. Draw distance is noticeably better too.

I mean obviously it's not going to look like a different game altogether, but this looks like a game going from medium/low presets at a low resolution to ultra presets at a high resolution.

 

[Turk1993]

Whatever.

Not like I simply said the game controls are more "QTE-like in this sense" compared to a completely different apporach to animations/motion matching, after playing hundreds of hours of the first iteration. But let's play dumb.

Again, the combat in SM2 is as smooth as its gets for a fantasy super hero game. Its responsive and has incredible animations, you don't need to play dumb to understand that.

Yeah, not looking like you're scrambling to provide a somewhat coherent response after that bizzare reality-denying post. Not at all.

Command Mode, Ranked/Team Deathmatch, Plunder Mode:

"In which world are UC multiplayers competitive lol"

Whatever man.

Again nobody plays ND games for "comeptitive multiplayer". And just because a game features team death match doesn't mean its a competitive multiplayer game lol. Games like COD/FIFA/ACC/BF/RS are competitive multiplayer games, those are games that people buy to play the multiplayer. ND games are single player focused games that featured a very small multiplayer which was featured last in UC4 back in 2016.

Completely irrelevant to what I actually said, as expected. They built the game mechanics expecting them to be used in the separate competitive Multiplayer portion, as every previous ND title since 2009.

Again they didn't build the gameplay and animations for multiplayer. ND always aims at smooth animations and there gameplay mechanics where all used in there campaign. Multiplayer was not there focus with TLOU2. Otherwise they would launched it with a multiplayer or launched the multiplayer first. Its more than 3 years that TLOU2 launched and we have yet to see one frame of its multiplayer. If that was there focus it would already been launched. You think a studio like ND can't launch a multiplayer mode for a game thats already been out for 3+ years with a engine thats ready with all the tools and assets. But meanwhile they are fine releasing 3 remasters with no multiplayer and you think somehow they focus on the gameplay mechanics for competitive multiplayer.

Sure, let's pretend this studio isn't considered best in class by the damn industry and devs alike when it comes to elements such as the ones discussed here.

Now I know we shouldn't acknowledge ND accomplishments in graphics/tech inside of graphics/tech discussions.

Accomplishment they did last gen, all there new releases (remasters) are lackluster compared to what other devs achieved. When ND releases a game exclusive on the new console, that should blow away everything on that console and there previous old last gen game. This is not happening with there latest 3 remasters. The upgrades are smaller than free patches on some other games. Even in your own post with all those comparison you can clearly see that.

Analysis - Not even Naughty Dog can Remaster their own games

Porting games like Uncharted 4 is not an easy task, to say the least. Especially in a relatively short time, and especially if bundled with titles such as The Lost Legacy. However, i find fascinating how nobody spotted the huge number of little downgrades the games got in the Legacy of Thieves...

www.neogaf.com

We can end this discussion here as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah nice you point out some bugs in there remasters but are totally fine with a PS5 remaster that looks like a PS4 game running at a higher rez. You where also hating on the SM1 remaster which was one of the best remaster this gen yet you are fine with this. This is what you said in the TLOU2R thread


"Don't care if I'm in the minority, this is the only correct way to port a game like Part II: increase draw distance, AF, resolution, shadows and AO if needed. Don't mess with anything else, basically a PC port."

That's what they official announced as improvements so far:

"Increased texture resolution, increased Level-of-Detail distances, improved shadow quality, animation sampling rate, and more."

"Personally I'm fine with that. When you mess with elaborated visuals (lSpider-Man Remastered for instance) ruining things here in there is invevitable, and there's nothing I hate more."


"Man people in this Thread complaining about a $10 upgrade make me want to purchase the WLF version just out of spite, and God only knows how much I hated this fucking game..
All the more ridiculous considering the game received a free 60fps upgrade already."

"This game only really needed LOD improvements to fix the 60fps Patch issues, and they apparently did that along with other minor things here and there:"

"A complete "Remaster" with new assets/lighting/textures would only destroy the meticulously crafted visuals/aesthetic. Game already looks like this ffs:"

Jokes aside, this is the official list:

"Increased texture resolution, increased Level-of-Detail distances, improved shadow quality, animation sampling rate, and more."

An example of different LOD and shadows/occlusion can be seen here a bit:

Resolution, AF and textures bump here:



Nothing major at all so far.
No improved Nanite-like geometry is the biggest bummer but I highly doubt their Engine could be capable of something even close to that for a comparable performance hit, and for damn sure not while reatroactively working on a Remastered previous-gen code.

Wow amazing what a difference.

This is a good example of what ND considered an appropriate use of PS5 extra power when it comes to gameplay model's fidelity, without bothing investing in major changes for their Engine.

Higher resolution, twice the framerate, more physics, better assets, PCSS. Not sure we could expect much more from their games this Gen but maybe I'm just pessimistic.

If SlimySnake would have posted that TLOU2 screenshot you would have called him "comically disingenuos", yet you post that shit to make TLOU P1 look better lol. There are tons of other pictures where Joel looks alot better than that trashy capture from DF. Even you have posted better captures than that .

 

[Turk1993]

The TLOU defense force in here is so weird.


No one is saying the game looks bad, ya'll. It's okay to admit that it's starting to be surpassed by modern games. That's a GOOD thing that we should celebrate.

They really don't understand this. It was one of the best looking game when it launched but its been already surpassed. We are even arguing the lacking things in games like HFW and CP2077 in this thread and want even better looking games. Than you have those guys jumping in with last gen looking games like TLOU2 and the remaster with slight improvements claiming its the best looking thing ever.

 

[ChiefDada]

Eh, even in this one comparison gif I see a lot of significant improvements.

Shadows/ambient occlusion look significantly improved. Look at the rocks on the bottom right. Foliage/tree quality looks noticeably improved. Look at the trees in the distance on the middle/right side. Draw distance is noticeably better too.

I mean obviously it's not going to look like a different game altogether, but this looks like a game going from medium/low presets at a low resolution to ultra presets at a high resolution.

Considering the fact that PS4 Pro runs TLOU2 at 1440p/30fps and the remaster on PS5 has a 30fps mode as well, there has to/should be a MUCH MUCH more noticeable graphics improvement.

1. 2.5x theoretical compute advantage on top of Polaris to RDNA2 IPC gain.
2. 2x memory bandwidth (with more efficiency for PS5 with cache coherency engines)
3. Dedicated RT and geometry HW

And then there's jaguar vs zen 2 uplift..... I just don't see much of that boost in hw being presented in the trailer they released.

This is an amazing value at $10 price point for people who want more game content. But if you're just interested in graphics update I think even $10 is too much to ask considering all other available games. Just my opinion.

 

[CGNoire]

when 70% of the game is spent in confined spaces much more similar to Callisto Protocol where the Nate model looks generations ahead.

You have zero right calling someone disingenuous all while posting nonsense like this. I played through UC4 again recently and even if I hadent I would know that thatcomment is full of shit. You know exactly what your doing with those ultra closeups next to light sources. Disengenuous indeed.

 

[Trilobit]

Just realized I typed "disingenuous" wrong four damn times in the span of three messages while accusing Snake of not being in good shape..

To be fair I laughed when I read 'disingenuous' as I thought it surely couldn't be written like that. Whan an ugly looking word!

Disingenuououous

 

[Hugare]

This is a good example of what ND considered an appropriate use of PS5 extra power when it comes to gameplay model's fidelity, without bothing investing in major changes for their Engine.

Higher resolution, twice the framerate, more physics, better assets, PCSS. Not sure we could expect much more from their games this Gen but maybe I'm just pessimistic.

It was reported many, many times already that ND didnt develop most of Part I. It was a project developed by a support team inside Sony, and they weren't able to finish the game so ND just assisted them to finish the job.

If you think this is what ND will be able to accomplish on the PS5, get ready for a rude awakening when their next game comes out

I expect Factions to look better than this, but considering its a multiplayer game, the new IP will be the one to really melt people's eyes

 

[Balducci30]

Currently playing Half Life Alyx on VR. The graphics are amazing and so is are the physics. Never thought a VR game could look this good.

Haven’t been so impressed by a game as this one in like decades tbh

 

[Vick]

Oh my fucking God..

Again nobody plays ND games for "comeptitive multiplayer". And just because a game features team death match doesn't mean its a competitive multiplayer game lol. Games like COD/FIFA/ACC/BF/RS are competitive multiplayer games, those are games that people buy to play the multiplayer. ND games are single player focused games that featured a very small multiplayer which was featured last in UC4 back in 2016.

And that's just your opinion, ND games always had their dedicated Multiplayer communities ever since the Beta of Uncharted 2. What you personally think of them couldn't possibily be any less important nor relevant to what I said when mentioning them.

Again they didn't build the gameplay and animations for multiplayer.

No, but they also had to keep in my mind those mechanics were going to be used in such way, as common damn sense should suggest you.

ND always aims at smooth animations and there gameplay mechanics where all used in there campaign. Multiplayer was not there focus with TLOU2. Otherwise they would launched it with a multiplayer or launched the multiplayer first. Its more than 3 years that TLOU2 launched and we have yet to see one frame of its multiplayer. If that was there focus it would already been launched. You think a studio like ND can't launch a multiplayer mode for a game thats already been out for 3+ years with a engine thats ready with all the tools and assets. But meanwhile they are fine releasing 3 remasters with no multiplayer and you think somehow they focus on the gameplay mechanics for competitive multiplayer.

The games we were talking about all came out long before those Remasters and Remake you're now mentioning, so again I'm not sure what the fuck makes you think this is somehow relevant..

Uncharted 4 shipped with competitive Multiplayer and TLOU Part II Multiplayer component was developed in parallel to the Single Player game:



As we can see from this 2020 leak. End of the fucking story.

Accomplishment they did last gen, all there new releases (remasters) are lackluster compared to what other devs achieved. When ND releases a game exclusive on the new console, that should blow away everything on that console and there previous old last gen game. This is not happening with there latest 3 remasters. The upgrades are smaller than free patches on some other games. Even in your own post with all those comparison you can clearly see that.

Yeah and those posts you're talking about, often simply responding to frustrated idiots spewing nonsense, all referred to those.. so again I'm not sure whatever point you're trying to make.

Yeah nice you point out some bugs in there remasters but are totally fine with a PS5 remaster that looks like a PS4 game running at a higher rez. You where also hating on the SM1 remaster which was one of the best remaster this gen yet you are fine with this. This is what you said in the TLOU2R thread

Yes, because as that Thread should have made you understand there's nothing I hate more than artistic/technical downgrades when it comes to these "Remasters".
Spider-Man butched a literal million of little things here and there when it was quickly "Remastered", has a huge shadow pop-in in the city issues compared to the OG on PS4 where it's nowhere to be seen, features worse looking water, less realistic looking dusk setting, completely changed its protagonist model etc. and on top of that the OG game already was one of the most consistent and polished games of that generation.

I'm also luckily able to grasp the concept it's naive to expect a quick and cheap Remaster from a bunch of newbies:



To be able to drastically mess with every visual elements of a game like Part II and somehow not screw things everywhere.

You must be one of those preferring the Arkham Remasters to the originals on PC but thankfully I'm not. Give me the technical improvements you would see on a PC port and don't touch anything else unless you're 100% able to not compromise a single thing.
Which never happens.

If SlimySnake would have posted that TLOU2 screenshot you would have called him "comically disingenuos", yet you post that shit to make TLOU P1 look better lol. There are tons of other pictures where Joel looks alot better than that trashy capture from DF. Even you have posted better captures than that .

Fucking hell.. whatever you say man.

You have zero right calling someone disingenuous all while posting nonsense like this. I played through UC4 again recently and even if I hadent I would know that thatcomment is full of shit. You know exactly what your doing with those ultra closeups next to light sources. Disengenuous indeed.

Nonsense like saying this:

Looks generations ahead of this?

Something the person I was talking to agreed with?

It was reported many, many times already that ND didnt develop most of Part I. It was a project developed by a support team inside Sony, and they weren't able to finish the game so ND just assisted them to finish the job.

If you think this is what ND will be able to accomplish on the PS5, get ready for a rude awakening when their next game comes out

I expect Factions to look better than this, but considering its a multiplayer game, the new IP will be the one to really melt people's eyes

No, that's not what I think, and hopefully you're right.

 

[Turk1993]

Oh my fucking God..

And that's just your opinion, ND games always had their dedicated Multiplayer communities ever since the Beta of Uncharted 2. What you personally think of them couldn't possibily be any less important nor relevant to what I said when mentioning them.

No, but they also had to keep in my mind those mechanics were going to be used in such way, as common damn sense should suggest you.

Yeah thats why they haven't released any multiplayer game mode in 7 years which is a whole console generation lol.

The games we were talking about all came out long before those Remasters and Remake you're now mentioning, so again I'm not sure what the fuck makes you think this is somehow relevant..

Uncharted 4 shipped with competitive Multiplayer and TLOU Part II Multiplayer component was developed in parallel to the Single Player game:



As we can see from this 2020 leak. End of the fucking story.

Almost 4 years later still no official footage lol. 10sec random 360p clip that is actually almost 5 years old since everybody in the comments from 3 years ago say they saw it 2 years ago lol. Was this your proof that they are focusing on multiplayer.

Yes, because as that Thread should have made you understand there's nothing I hate more than artistic/technical downgrades when it comes to these "Remasters".
Spider-Man butched a literal million of little things here and there when it was quickly "Remastered", has a huge shadow pop-in in the city issues compared to the OG on PS4 where it's nowhere to be seen, features worse looking water, less realistic looking dusk setting, completely changed its protagonist model etc. and on top of that the OG game already was one of the most consistent and polished games of that generation.

I'm also luckily able to grasp the concept it's naive to expect a quick and cheap Remaster from a bunch of newbies:



To be able to drastically mess with every visual elements of a game like Part II and somehow not screw things everywhere.

You must be one of those preferring the Arkham Remasters to the originals on PC but thankfully I'm not. Give me the technical improvements you would see on a PC port and don't touch anything else unless you're 100% able to not compromise a single thing.
Which never happens.

Bunch of newbies my ass, its not my problem that ND and Sony let there biggest IP getting remaster by new people with no experience. Look at whose list those game appear

Naughty Dog - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And this shit is hilarious, you are calling Spiderman remaster "quickly remastered" and say that TLOU2R is better because it looks exactly the same as the PS4 version.

 

[Represent.]

The game is being remastered by newbies while the big dogs work on an original project that will undoubtedly look better than anything else this gen.

I dont get the complications here.

They are not even hyping it up as a visual remaster. It's quite literally bonus content and a 4K upscale being sold for 10 bucks made by people who have never made a game before.

You all want them to waste time putting RT in a 3 year old game I say fuck that.

Add an extra mode, release some deleted levels, add dev commentary, sell it for 10 bucks. Call it a day.

Insomniac wasted precious time and energy adding RT in Spider-Man: Remastered and look what happened with Spider-Man 2. They didn't have enough time. Unfinished, ABYSMAL facial animation in cutscenes, motion capture that looked unfinished.. and generally unpolished and buggy as hell by Sony 1st Party standards.

I guarantee you the next ND game will make the likes of Spider-Man 2, Avatar, Alan Wake 2, Starfield, Burning Shores, Ragnarok, etc look like AA games in comparison.

If we have to sacrifice RT on a remake by noobs then so fucking be it. Put your energy where it matters. New stuff.

TLOU 2 is 3 freaking years old. Give them time. Enjoy some bonus content in the mean time. That new SP game is cooking, it wont disappoint.