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[Ass of Can Whooping]

They're even anti-Semites over there too. I wonder if Druckmann felt this way after seeing all his colleagues cheer on Hamas and "free Palestine" "from sea to sea,"

Watching the left tear themselves apart has been a treat.

 

[Jigsaah]

"We are not making a game for black people."

Interesting how feelings would change with one swap of a color, innit?

No...because I understand it's overcompensating. Insomniac don't hate white people. They are just going about this wrong. There's nuance in this I don't think you and others are seeing.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Natural inclusivity looks more like a propaganda Like teaching about god or ideology.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No...because I understand it's overcompensating. Insomniac don't hate white people. They are just going about this wrong. There's nuance in this I don't think you and others are seeing.

The ideology does.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Giving me PTSD flashbacks of Take Two's horrid 2021 SGF conference. Anyone remember that?

Anyway, steering well clear of this thread, it's gonna be nothing but a disaster zone.

 

[Arsic]

Yikes.

I’ll never buy a game of theirs again.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

No...because I understand it's overcompensating. Insomniac don't hate white people. They are just going about this wrong. There's nuance in this I don't think you and others are seeing.

I think its done in good faith. It's unfortunately headed by bad actors. And I don't think this will ever change because the ones who can contribute positively will eventually get cancelled. Even Niel and Cory are going to fall victim to it eventually. They just need to disagree to the 1 percentile

 

[Woggleman]

The woke movement to me is like prohibition and the war on drugs in the sense that it makes the problem it claims to be solving worse. I think there are some people in it who mean well but all it has achieved is turning us against each other.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think its done in good faith. It's unfortunately headed by bad actors. And I don't think this will ever change because the ones who can contribute positively will eventually get cancelled. Even Niel and Cory are going to fall victim to it eventually. They just need to disagree to the 1 percentile

Neil, an Israeli Jewish man, deleted his tweet (post Oct 7th events) after the backlash from the machine. Fall in line.

 

[Jigsaah]

The ideology does.

The ideology says "We've been underrepresented for too long, let's make a (enter medium here) that is inclusive by catering to X,Y,Z communities".

The problem with this, is that you literally are being hypocritical by excluding any one group while attempting to be inclusive.

I don't understand why this is so hard. Like it's in the very definition and the antonym.

Here's what I think. The people deciding to this in the first place are probably white for the most part. However, they have no clue how to do this authentically. So what do they do? Hire some folks to go out and talk to people from those other groups, casually ignoring the plights and opinions of white people. It's still media-based apartheid. White people get their media here...and we'll make this one over here for everybody else.

Misguided, hypocritical, disingenuous and not necessarily bringing society together either.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Neil, an Israeli Jewish man, deleted his tweet (post Oct 7th events) after the backlash from the machine. Fall in line.

Always knew he was anti muslim

 

[DeepEnigma]

The problem with this, is that you literally are being hypocritical by excluding any one group while attempting to be inclusive.

The fuck I am!

If they came out and said, "we are not making a game for black or gay people." They would be considered bigots, racists, and forced to capitulate and apologize.

That is the point people are making. Let's not dance around it, at all. You don't need to put down one race or preference, in order to elevate another. The moment you start doing that, you lost the plot.

 

[Jigsaah]

I think its done in good faith. It's unfortunately headed by bad actors. And I don't think this will ever change because the ones who can contribute positively will eventually get cancelled. Even Niel and Cory are going to fall victim to it eventually. They just need to disagree to the 1 percentile

Exactly! They pick up these folks who are so desperate to make their mark that they shun anything that's not them. I don't even think they realize their doing it half the time. There's an entitlement I think that happens that creates this opportunity and it's like they just run with it rather than being mindful of how it may affect EVERYBODY.

 

[Jigsaah]

The fuck I am!

If they came out and said, "we are not making a game for black or gay people." They would be considered bigots, racists, and forced to capitulate and apologize.

That is the point people are making. Let's not dance around it, at all. You don't need to put down one race or preference, in order to elevate another. The moment you start doing that, you lost the plot.

I was referring to the developer when i said "you", not you specifically haha!

 

[kruis]

As someone who studied film history that drives me particularly insane. Gloria Swanson was fucking running Hollywood in the 20s and starring in everything she could put her hands on (including writing her characters):

Sadie Thompson (film) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gloria Swanson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

For modern activists saving the world isn't their real goal, it's what they do to get status in their social circles, it's what gives their empty lives meaning. But now imagine you're a modern day feminist fighting the patriarchy, you don't want to face the fact that you're really living in a post feminist world where every classic feminist goal you want to bring about has already been achieved. Pretty depressing stuff! So modern day feminists simply rewrite the recent past. so they can act out their fantasy of being the activist heroes who will finally achieve what previous generations couldn't: equal rights for women and the demolition of the patriarchy.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I was referring to the developer when i said "you", not you specifically haha!

My bad., bro! I should have known better. You have always been cordial and non-confrontational.

 

[Outlier]

Dear gods. Thank you for posting this. Looks like I won't be purchasing their games until they have no choice, but to behave like sensible people.

Not hard for me to do since their last game I bought was on PS3.

 

[angrod14]

The whole "need for representation" angle on minorities is plain retarded. You can't represent everyone, and why would you have to? You're just telling a fucking story.

Naughty Dog in TLOU2 "represented" lesbians, asians, mexicans, african-americans. Did they fail to "include" indigenous people? What about the mentally challenged, people with special needs, or other minorities? Should they feel "excluded" by ND?

It's just so freaking stupid.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

I consider the fact that for a century, there was very little representation for minorities. When there was some representation it was often negative or derogatory in some way. So I can appreciate the effort, though it's not perfect and sometimes it's implemented poorly, but I can appreciate the effort in SOME cases. I do not think that inclusivity should ostracize any race. It should not mean avoiding fanfare to white people. I think that's where a lot of these companies get it wrong. You can't exclude white folks and still be inclusive. It's almost like they are compensating for times before when that's not necessary.

I don't think it's ever cut and dry. There's always gonna be that one example people can lean on to "prove" their case.

For me, as a black man, I feel society is better than those days. But I'm viewing it from a different perspective. I was raised differently, had different life experiences than what I would imagine you've had.

Exactly! A great take on it

They've gone too far the other way and honestly, the writing is bloody awful in most of these projects and you can feel creativity was far down the page on what to make.

Nothing feels natural in most mainstream media these days, we're now seeing why

It's fake and forced as hell.

I said to my wife the other night I would love to watch an old show that I loved in the 90's and could never find on the Internet, oddly I just typed it in YouTube and all episodes were on there, I was over the moon. After rewatching a few episodes I turned to her and said "Why can't we just have shows like this anymore.."

Yeah, it was a bit cheesy, but I love it and no ones probably heard of it..



And guess what, as crazy as those hazy days were, the main characters were a black and white guy!

So, if we had good shows such as this and many others back in the 90's and 2000's where all races were in shows together then why are we being gas lit now that it's a 'problem' with race and young people need to see themselves in what they watch? (What even is that...)

It's all bollocks.

 

[Generic]

South Park once made a joke "make it more lame and gay"

That joke was actually mocking people who make these arguments.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What about the mentally challenged or other people with special needs? Should they feel "excluded" by ND?

I think the constant arguments around Abby and her diet/gains all these years later filled that slot, for sure. Well played, ND.

 

[MacReady13]

Were there not a few people in this very forum who claimed Spiderman 2 wasn't "woke"??? Wonder what their thoughts are regarding this leak...???

This is pathetic. Inclusion is fine but this bullshit is crazy. The fact these companies do it to try please a vocal minority is astounding. Sony just making me take more steps to leaving their ecosystem altogether.

 

[deriks]

That joke was actually mocking people who make these arguments.

Goes both ways

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I consider the fact that for a century, there was very little representation for minorities. When there was some representation it was often negative or derogatory in some way. So I can appreciate the effort, though it's not perfect and sometimes it's implemented poorly, but I can appreciate the effort in SOME cases. I do not think that inclusivity should ostracize any race. It should not mean avoiding fanfare to white people. I think that's where a lot of these companies get it wrong. You can't exclude white folks and still be inclusive. It's almost like they are compensating for times before when that's not necessary.

I don't think it's ever cut and dry. There's always gonna be that one example people can lean on to "prove" their case.

For me, as a black man, I feel society is better than those days. But I'm viewing it from a different perspective. I was raised differently, had different life experiences than what I would imagine you've had.

Well, I think even historically, it depends on where you looked. Asians might have had really stereotypical representation in Hollywood for decades (and in ways arguably still today, tho a lot less so), for example, but if you paid attention to film scenes outside of Hollywood, you'd of seen a much greater variety of stories and films from places like Japan, Korea etc. going on for decades. And in quite a few cases I'd say some of those were better than their Hollywood counterparts by magnitudes. Similar can be said for Latino representation: the stereotypical stuff was mainly a Hollywood problem, but you got much better rep in Latin American film scenes.

With African-Americans its a bit trickier but if just talking black people in general, there's always been the Nollywood (Nigerian film scene) stuff for decades and other African, Caribbean (such as Jamaica) etc. countries have had their own film and television scenes as well, with much better representation. So a big issue IMO is often when talking about poor representation for non-whites in entertainment going far back, it's usually a very American-centric viewpoint and even then, heavily Hollywood-centric. Hollywood's been corrupt since the get-go, look at who runs it and what groups/organizations (including literal criminal organizations)/financers run it...and that's all I'll say on that point because apparently people get pissy when you just want to mention an obvious (and not even in a hateful way whatsoever).

It's kinda why things like "OscarsSoWhite" annoyed me...people do know there are other award shows, right? Ironically that stuff put the Oscars on a pedestal of importance it otherwise likely didn't deserve, and once again, put Hollywood on a pedestal it also likely didn't deserve. When that energy could've gone towards giving a lift to foreign film markets and creators, award ceremonies for works outside of the Hollywood system, etc. It's why things like the people who got mad at Martin Scorcese's MCU comments years ago annoyed me, because they thought he was belittling representation for minorities in film, when he's done MORE work to preserve ACTUAL films from foreign countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America etc. than Disney ever will.

The fuck I am!

If they came out and said, "we are not making a game for black or gay people." They would be considered bigots, racists, and forced to capitulate and apologize.

That is the point people are making. Let's not dance around it, at all. You don't need to put down one race or preference, in order to elevate another. The moment you start doing that, you lost the plot.

Agreed. And the funny thing is, American entertainment was actually better at this inclusivity stuff back in the '90s and early '00s, IMO. Maybe that's because I was a kid back then, and saw things differently, I won't deny that part. And I'm not saying there wasn't questionable stuff being made back then either: there definitely was.

But I don't remember Power Rangers villainizing Jason (awesome), Billy (chill), Kimberly (beautiful) or Tommy (awesome; RIP) to prop up Zack (still awesome) and Trish (beautiful; RIP). I don't remember ABC trying to sideline or attack Boy Meets World just to give Family Matters some room. Disney is probably a great example here because they had stuff for basically everyone and they actually had shows with a healthy split of female AND male leads. Lizzy McGuire, Even Stevens, The Famous Jett Jackson, Johnny Tsunami, Luck of the Irish, That's So Raven, The Proud Family, Jake Long.

They even did movies like The Color of Friendship which touched on complicated topics but not in a way that villified the white girl simply for being white (or villified her at all actually...it actually considered nuances and the black girl's parents were a bit prejudiced to having the white girl stay with them at first, too). Stuff like that wouldn't get made today without being made "woke" (I hate this term but it's a quick go-to).

And look at modern Disney/Marvel now. "MSheU" didn't come out of nowhere, people noticed the pattern and called it out.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Exactly! They pick up these folks who are so desperate to make their mark that they shun anything that's not them. I don't even think they realize their doing it half the time. There's an entitlement I think that happens that creates this opportunity and it's like they just run with it rather than being mindful of how it may affect EVERYBODY.

Yeah the problem ultimately comes down to developer ignorance as wel imo. Most of them aren't well educated on these subjects so they can't openly speak out about it either even if it's sus so you're at the mercy of these people who think they have a higher level of authority than you just because they belong to said group.

I'm in a few of discord servers where we debate these things all the time. Loads of dumbass lefties that try to shut me down because I'm not trans or not palestinian. They're easy to combat if you just understand the subject.

 

[Gaiff]

What about the mentally challenged

I'd say Joel in TLOU2 was a good representation for a mentally challenged person.

 

[samoilaaa]

Were there not a few people in this very forum who claimed Spiderman 2 wasn't "woke"??? Wonder what their thoughts are regarding this leak...???

This is pathetic. Inclusion is fine but this bullshit is crazy. The fact these companies do it to try please a vocal minority is astounding. Sony just making me take more steps to leaving their ecosystem altogether.

even after this video people will still say that their games are not woke and you are homophobic , transphobic or a racist if you contradict them

but hey if saying that trans people are mentally ill then i guess im transphobic

 

[tommib]

For modern activists saving the world isn't their real goal, it's what they do to get status in their social circles, it's what gives their empty lives meaning. But now imagine you're a modern day feminist fighting the patriarchy, you don't want to face the fact that you're really living in a post feminist world where every classic feminist goal you want to bring about has already been achieved. Pretty depressing stuff! So modern day feminists simply rewrite the recent past. so they can act out their fantasy of being the activist heroes who will finally achieve what previous generations couldn't: equal rights for women and the demolition of the patriarchy.

Couldn’t have said it better. These people are depressed because they’re late to the empancipation. The French did it all in the 60s. Solution? Bring it all down, rebuild it in the most retarded way and get regressive trophies.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Exactly! They pick up these folks who are so desperate to make their mark that they shun anything that's not them. I don't even think they realize their doing it half the time. There's an entitlement I think that happens that creates this opportunity and it's like they just run with it rather than being mindful of how it may affect EVERYBODY.

Yeah the problem ultimately comes down to developer ignorance as wel imo. Most of them aren't well educated on these subjects so they can't openly speak out about it either even if it's sus so you're at the mercy of these people who think they have a higher level of authority than you just because they belong to said group.

I'm in a few of discord servers where we debate these things all the time. Loads of dumbass lefties that try to shut me down because I'm not trans or not palestinian. They're easy to combat if you just understand the subject.

It's when movements went form equality to "equity" where it all went downhill. Equity is good in theory, but in practice, it's just another "not real communism" repeated every so-called revolution.

And the massively wealthy and corrupt puppet master's are getting richer, as we stay stay divided on their great new grift. Unfocused on them and their fleecing. They know the power (they would stand to lose) is in the people united. All of these movements and narratives got pushed 100-fold into the MSM ether right at the time of Occupy Wall Street. And that occupy movement then died when all those very corporations started donning the immutable characteristics flags.

 

[The Stig]

I legit am surprised by this. I honestly thought the ballyhoo around "woke" in video games was being exaggerated.

I stand corrected.

 

[adamsapple]

The whole make her ugly to be relatable doesn't make sense either lol

That ain't what the cashiers in my local McDonalds look like lol

 

[angrod14]

It's also so ironic the fact that, in this search for "inclusivity" they end up discriminating more than everyone else. "We need more queer writers", so some writer is going to get selected based on his sexuality as a criteria instead of just his sheer writing ability or professionalism?

 

[Jigsaah]

Yeah the problem ultimately comes down to developer ignorance as wel imo. Most of them aren't well educated on these subjects so they can't openly speak out about it either even if it's sus so you're at the mercy of these people who think they have a higher level of authority than you just because they belong to said group.

I'm in a few of discord servers where we debate these things all the time. Loads of dumbass lefties that try to shut me down because I'm not trans or not palestinian. They're easy to combat if you just understand the subject.

Yea I don't know enough about the Israel-Palestinian conflict to have a strong opinion. Two of my best friends are Jewish and I've asked them what's going on, but they are really anti-Palestinian and I could tell I wasn't getting a level headed take on the situation. My brother's wife is Muslim and Egyptian and is the exact opposite and also, not level headed. I try to reconcile the two sides of this and just decided I'm not qualified to really have a take. I don't like the killings of innocents. Terrorism is wrong. Sounds like a copout, and honestly it is...because I'm just not knowledgeable enough to be given a say.

And yes, it's definitely just ignorance and I almost wanna say laziness. Like they could get out there and really involve themselves in other aspects of society. Get a true feel for it. However I also understand that would require stepping out of a comfort zone. When I visit different cultures, I try to integrate myself as best as I can. When I went to Japan the two times I did, I spent weeks researching customs, what to do, what not to do just to try and fit in a bit. When I got there, I bowed properly when I greeted people. I never put my chopsticks standing up in my rice...did not smoke outside unless I was in a designated area, kept all trash in my backpack. I just really tried not to offend the country I felt was my host. This is the kind of mindset I think devs need to take when attempting diversity. It would be easier even, because it's not a different country necessarily.

 

[MetalFreak]

Vomit inducing bullshit

 

[Calverz]

Embarrassing but they all have these sorts of inclusivity awareness/training videos.

 

[Nickolaidas]

I consider the fact that for a century, there was very little representation for minorities. When there was some representation it was often negative or derogatory in some way.

I wholly agree in that minorities were the butt jokes for racism-haha, dum dum Asian har har stupidity. No arguments there.

I have two issues, with today's woke attempt at inclusivity.

First off, it is the insanely hyperbolic numbers of minorities appearing in those stories. LGBTQ+ characters appear so often now, you'd think straight people are a minority. I mean, for fuck's sake, I don't think there is a single straight character in Baldur's Gate III. I think every single PC and NPC is at least bisexual, if not flat out gay. This isn't representation, this is literally a twilight zone episode where everything is upside down.

Second, and THAT's the biggest problem, in order to AVOID the racism of old depictions, right now they are afraid to make minorities look evil (by their own moral code, anyway), dumb, or flat out assholes. Russel T. Davis literally retconned Davros, a zombie-like evil genius in a hoverchair, one of the best villains of Doctor Who into a straight white Nazi-uniformed walking male, because he didn't want viewers to look at Davros and associate disability with evil. Who gives a fuck about Batman's Oracle or Professor Xavier.

So now, when you look at a crippled character, you know he's good because there's no way they would risk offending someone by making a handicapped person evil. If the villain is a woman, she's a victim lashing out, not an oppressor. If the final villain is a man, he'll be straight and white.

Fantasy settings? Even the most remote Scandinavian inspired village will now have blacks, asians and mexicans, despite being a small isolated settlement in a northern region.

Everything looks the same. Everyone acts the same. Black people cannot be pure villains, they must be tragic figures who were oppressed. Lesbians are pure as snow. Women are better than men. White males are addicted to power.

Every single time the SAME. FUCKING. BULLSHIT.

Directors afraid to take risks, writers too busy trying to show twitter they are allies instead of saying a fucking story, minorities too busy trying to one up each other in the oppression Olympics, straight white cucks too scared to say anything but apologize for existing, and everyone telling me I am a horrible person for not liking all this shit.

Go fuck yourselves, you woke cunts. You ruin everything you touch, you corrupt anything you put your ugly fingers to, you bankrupt the ENTIRE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY OF THE WEST, and now you're starting to look across to the East.

All that because you're pampered cunts who never worked a day in your lives and have no idea how the real world works.

 

[CatLady]

I never understood why women are supposedly so offended by good looking characters.

We're not. I think most normal women prefer attractive characters whether they're male or female. It's mostly the ugly purple-haired water buffalos that can't stand attractive women in games and in real life.

 

[John Bilbo]

Martin Luther King Jr 1963: I have a dream!

Insomniac 2023: Well fuck you the dream is dead!

 

[tommib]

They're even anti-Semites over there too. I wonder if Druckmann felt this way after seeing all his colleagues cheer on Hamas and "free Palestine" "from sea to sea,"

Druckmann was automatically bullied on Twitter after a harmless post showing support to the Jews in Israel. It was disgusting to see the post disappear in minutes.

I would love to see the behind the scenes intimidation process.

 

[Shakka43]

Disgusting indoctrination, I feel sorry for any normal person trying to get a job there. Spider-Man 2 was such a let down story wise it killed all hype I had for Wolverine or anything else they have coming.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It isn't money. Look at how Disney just keeps doubling down despite losing money hand over fist. It's about being a good person, doing the right thing, and sending the right message. And having your social group pat you on the back.

'The road to hell is paved with good intentions' is ancient wisdom.

And because Disney stuff is sinking lately in terms of quality and sales, Bob Iger is slowing down content. He couldn’t stop things in motion.

But we’ll have to see if their content changes or not in the future.

 

[sendit]

gross
Players ain't stupid

.

 

[Aenima]

That ain't what the cashiers in my local McDonalds look like lol

Go to Sweeden

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Druckmann was automatically bullied on Twitter after a harmless post showing support to the Jews in Israel. It was disgusting to see the post disappear in minutes.

I would love to see the behind the scenes intimidation process.

Probably got called a Zionist all the while getting lectured about how views come across as islamophobic

 

[jonnyp]

Playstation Japan need to fire all these activists at their studios.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Go to Sweeden

 

[Reallink]

In all seriousness, they probably paid $20+ million dollars to DEI consultants/firms for this on every game.

 

[adamsapple]

Go to Sweeden

Meanwhile in the US

 

[Woggleman]

Probably got called a Zionist all the while getting lectured about how views come across as islamophobic

He probably had flashbacks of 2020 and just decided to not say anything.

 

[Jayjayhd34]

I'm sorry but don't see problem I mean if was problem there games wouldn't sell,millions I platiumed spiderman 2 and most this went over my head because I don't let things like bother me it's only a problem if let it effect you. It does not effect core aspect of why we all play games, the gameplay. Some people are just to sensitive these days, triggered by the silliest of things.