Support NeoGAF

[twilo99]

There's still great stuff coming from Europe (CDPR, Larian, Remedy, etc) and smaller American teams

True, but it's only a matter of time...

 

[LastBattle]

Why is that a problem? The inverse is games that were made and appealed to mainly white males were intentionally made that way.

Please list said games.

 

[twilo99]

Like I've been saying, if you want your games back, the whole industry needs to be Elon Musked

 

[Fredrik]

It's indicative of a kind of low key paradox wherein the minorities end up dictating the discussion on minorities because they're minorities to the point that get to decide how "the real world," is represented for other minorities.

Makes me wonder, how can it even be talked about? Haven’t played Spider-Man 2 but in Starfield it feels like 95% of all citizens are prior classic minorities, which makes it odd to use the term minorities. But could I go to Twitter and scream about the lack of representation as a scandinavian? highly doubtful

 

[shamoomoo]

Please list said games.

So most lead game characters aren't white men? I didn't realize every game that come represent the population of every ethnic group in the U.S. Sorry people from Europe,I'm not from there so I can't speak for any of y'all.

 

[Twinblade]

Do all black people do the Wakanda salute now?

 

[Stuart360]

Man what a depressing video. This shit upsets me sometimes, even though we all know its infesting all walks of life.
I split up with my long time girlfirend a couple of years ago, but we had decided not to have kids because we didnt want to bring kids up in this loopy world. And i have said this before but i genuinely get scared when i think what the world will be like 30 or 40 years from now if this lunacy isnt got under control, and soon.
Thankfully i will probably be long gone by then.

 

[Schmendrick]

So we got "I look like I have a penis, now watch me fuck"-Abby, Kratos, who went from god of war to self loathing wimp-dad of war and Peter Parker who went from Hero to "I'm just a white male, please tell me what to do"-nobody...

Yeah, future is looking bright for Sony first party.

Thank god for Japanese developers, the west is turning into a looney bin.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

You might not be a bigot but you're probably a nazi

spank me moderators

 

[wvnative]

So we got "I look like I have a penis, now watch me fuck"-Abby, Kratos, who went from god of war to self loathing wimp-dad of war and Peter Parker who went from Hero to "I'm just a white male, please tell me what to do"-nobody...

Yeah, future is looking bright for Sony first party.

Thank god for Japanese developers, the west is turning into a looney bin.

I worry it will spread to japan eventually...

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

This shit is why Trump will win 2024.

 

[MarkMe2525]

For some reason it's particularly bad at Sony and Microsoft. The latter doesn't get nearly enough focus for how awful it is in this regard.

You may have missed the many threads/posts directly correlating MS's underpeforming games with their woke and diversified dev teams. My point is don't be fooled by the current news cycle, this criticism is equally levied on both companies on average.

 

[Fbh]

What I find funny is that almost nobody called Phantom Liberty woke when are main allies were a black man, a black woman an an asian woman. The president was also a woman and nobody made a big deal about it and is because it came across as natural and not done to appear anybody. Like it or not it was CDPR's baby just TLOU2 was ND's baby. Spiderman 2 is nobody's baby and it is clear it is done to appeal to twitter activists.

That's the thing though.
Having black characters or women in important roles isn't "woke".
"Woke" is when they are poorly written, when it feels like their inclusion is just to pander to a certain vocal minority online, when the writing often comes across as preachy or you get the feeling the writers are more concerned about pushing social messaging than telling a compelling story.

It's funny but in many ways I think Avatar The Last Airbender (from almost 20 years ago, you know when they'd have you believe everything was white and racist) is still one of the best examples of diversity done right.
On paper it's a woke wet dream: No white people, racially diverse cast, strong female characters (in both personality and fighting ability), etc. But it works because it was well written, the characters were fun and interesting beyond their physical traits, the diversity was integrated in a way that made sense, the story never feel preachy or like it had social messaging as a main objective, the women were cool and strong without needing to emasculate the male characters in the process, etc.

 

[Stuart360]

This shit is why Trump will win 2024.

Hopefully, he's one of the few people in a place of any kind of power that thinks this shit is just as ridiculous as a lot of the public do.

 

[Fredrik]

Man what a depressing video. This shit upsets me sometimes, even though we all know its infesting all walks of life.
I split up with my long time girlfirend a couple of years ago, but we had decided not to have kids because we didnt want to bring kids up in this loopy world. And i have said this before but i genuinely get scared when i think what the world will be like 30 or 40 years from now if this lunacy isnt got under control, and soon.
Thankfully i will probably be long gone by then.

Tbh kids are growing up with diversity all around them and it’s included in their education that we’re all different etc, I don’t think they care much. Biggest issue might be how they’re supposed to find someone they can make their own kids with if they can’t even know if someone is a man or woman.

 

[LastBattle]

So most lead game characters aren't white men? I didn't realize every game that come represent the population of every ethnic group in the U.S. Sorry people from Europe,I'm not from there so I can't speak for any of y'all.

No you said “made to appeal to white men”. So again which games are designed to appeal to white men? Give me some examples. It has to be easy.

 

[semiconscious]

… and yet y'all are still going to buy and play the games. Welcome to corporate America.

the truth? after being an insomniac fan since 2002, & after playing the r&c remake, & rift apart & attempting to play miles morales more than once (i thought spidey 1 was fine), i just no longer have the stomach to play their games. tho i do have access to the oldies, so all is well...

 

[Dice]

When you realize their existence depends on finding something to "correct" you realize there is no appeasement great enough. You meet one standard, they will suggest the next more extreme standard. If they came to a project and it was already diverse enough, they aren't going to get paid for saying "okay it's all good" so they literally have an agenda to push it further always.

 

[Stuart360]

Def wont be buying Spiderman 2 when it comes to PC. I regret buying Spiderman and Miles Morales anyway but at least i got both for less than £10 each on key sites.

Insomniac didnt make Ghosts of Tshushima right?, because i really want to play that when it comes to PC.

 

[Killer8]

This explains so much of Spider-Man 2. Unsurprising, really.

 

[semiconscious]

When you realize their existence depends on finding something to "correct" you realize there is no appeasement great enough. You meet one standard, they will suggest the next more extreme standard. If they came to a project and it was already diverse enough, they aren't going to get paid for saying "okay it's all good" so they literally have an agenda to push it further always.

& done...

when you're 'the solution', 'the problem' must continue to exist all the time, everywhere...

 

[balls of snow]

To people clamoring that ND/tlou2 is woke. It's not that. These are the staples I would consider for woke game:
-Characters exist JUST TO BE lgbtq+. No other traits are more important
-Old characters are replaced by those characters
-No traditional male/female roles allowed. At least not purely or if anything straight Man = bad
-Forced diversity
-usually game/character is woke where it absolutely doesn't matter and we don't need to know sexuality or political stances.
-Sweet baby inc - leading in woke writing. Slowly but surely manipulating the population to the point crap like Angrboda or playable atreus is acceptable. Nobody want to spend 2 hours with angrboda or play as atreus.... in gow game.

Some examples
-Saga is mild woke character. She would exist in the story no matter if she is white or black. Although we al know why she is black
-Female Ratchet only exists to have female in there. She has no purpose.
-Pregnant woman on battlefield in TLOU2? not woke. It's an apocalypse and their leader is an idiot. Could be bad writing
-Abby with huge gains in tlou2? not woke. there is a whole reason behind it. There are normal women too
-Trans kid in tlou2? Sure maybe but he serves purpose to show how religious that gang is which cast him away. Could be in any story. Seems believable.

Take off the blinders ffs. Saga is black because she is

Spoiler: Aw2 spoiler

Mr Door's daughter. The same character as Martin Hatch from Quantum Break as Lance Reddick was confirmed to be casted as Mr Door before he passed

.

 

[DeepEnigma]

These clowns are the custodians of Spider-Man in gaming for the far foreseeable future

Disney does own Marvel. You weren't going to get anything less than what they do in their own films and shows.

 

[Camreezie]

Def wont be buying Spiderman 2 when it comes to PC. I regret buying Spiderman and Miles Morales anyway but at least i got both for less than £10 each on key sites.

Insomniac didnt make Ghosts of Tshushima right?, because i really want to play that when it comes to PC.

No thats Sucker Punch

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Hopefully, he's one of the few people in a place of any kind of power that thinks this shit is just as ridiculous as a lot of the public do.

Lol we're so desperate we now think letting government dictate what should be in creative media is a good idea

 

[kruis]

That’s less cringeworthy. But who is asking video game developers about national policies?
Fucking USA was a mistake.

It's absolutely cringeworthy. Companies shouldn't take sides in political debates, it's not only bad for business, it also makes employees with quite different political ideas feel unwelcome and unsafe when the CEO goes on a rant and calls people who votes for the other party more or less evil.

 

[Camreezie]

Take off the blinders ffs. Saga is black because she is Mr Door's daughter. The same character as Martin Hatch from Quantum Break as Lance Reddick was confirmed to be casted as Mr Door before he passed.

Spoiler tags? Wtf dude

 

[Putonahappyface]

Wait what? I thought i hit the peak after I beat DenchDeckered???

Better get to work

Please don't you crazy mother fucker.

 

[rofif]

Take off the blinders ffs. Saga is black because she is Mr Door's daughter. The same character as Martin Hatch from Quantum Break as Lance Reddick was confirmed to be casted as Mr Door before he passed.

who cares for this game shitty story. That's just a theory anyway.
MR door can kiss my ass. I finished the game, there is nothing about him in the game really. I am sure they will retroactively explain it in the dlc

 

[balls of snow]

Spoiler tags? Wtf dude

Apologies. Was heated. Edited.

 

[Stuart360]

Lol we're so desperate we now think letting government dictate what should be in creative media is a good idea

To be fair he's not part of the 'establishment', that why they go after him so hard.
He's already said he will overturn a lot of woke shit thats already been brought into government.
I'm talking in general by the way, not videogames.

Anyway we shouldnt be talking about this on here anyway.

 

[Rocco Schiavone]

Nothing to see here, just woke American imperialism at work infesting the arts.



Insomniac if you're so principled then why did you remove all the pride flags and more from the Middle Eastern version of the game, rather than just not release the game in those territories like Square did with Final Fantasy 16?

Hypocrites like always. Just Like the car manufacturers during pride month. But No pride month in middle east twitter Channels.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why are people getting their knickers in a twist? A: isn't it a great game and B: isn't New York ethnically and racially diverse AF? Surely Insomniac Games are merely making sure that the New York in their game represents the actual New York and not some butt fuck Alabama hick town?? I don't get it

If Insomniac/Marvel actually represented the actual NYC, they'd be called racist, bigots, sexist, etc., etc..

Especially with all the anti-Semitism and Asian hate crimes by select demographics.

The awkward moment where an "Alabama hick town" has less racial crimes than the super progressive NYC melting pot.

 

[balls of snow]

who cares for this game shitty story. That's just a theory anyway.
MR door can kiss my ass. I finished the game, there is nothing about him in the game really. I am sure they will retroactively explain it in the dlc

Im sure Forspoken had the better story lol. And Mr Door is a big part of the story since he is reference in all 3 recent remedy properties. Try again. And no, its confirmed:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AlanWake/s/mB36l8GMGX

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Please don't you crazy mother fucker.

The revolution will only happen once I become a martyr

I'm sorry. It's already been prophesied

 

[DenchDeckard]

How do they make this video that's all about nuance and subtlety and not putting the characters ethnicity as the focul point of topic etc then the game is like..."hey help me ask my gay boyfriend out" "do you know you're black and here's a famous black saxophonists instrument you can save from the clutches of evil!"

Man, I wish I didn't watch that video. Turned it off after 3 minutes.

I'm sorry America and maybe the UK now...the west is fucked.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

To be fair he's not part of the 'establishment', that why they go after him so hard.
He's already said he will overturn a lot of woke shit thats already been brought into government.
I'm talking in general by the way, not videogames.

Anyway we shouldnt be talking about this on here anyway.

Fair. I want to be banned because of console wars. Not politics

 

[shamoomoo]

No you said “made to appeal to white men”. So again which games are designed to appeal to white men? Give me some examples. It has to be easy.

You can't be serious? Excluding all U.S base game companies,why are the non-Japanese types made by Capcom or most Japanese studios usually have white male leads? Resident Evil,most of dead rising series, MGS,most of the Silent Hill series, just to name view games.

If most gaming studio are created by white people,I wouldn't expect most of the leads to be non-white.

 

[rofif]

Im sure Forspoken had the better story lol. And Mr Door is a big part of the story since he is reference in all 3 recent remedy properties. Try again. And no, its confirmed:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AlanWake/s/mB36l8GMGX

of course forpoken got better story than alan trash 2. How is that even a question. And it got more believable characters than Saga Anderson, the most boring female protagonist with no character of her own whatsoever. People disliked Abby? She at least was someone with her own traits. Saga doesn't react to stuff, is not bothered by anything and overcomes her dark fears in 10 minutes.
That game is sam lake wankfest with simple story being so convoluted, like if king wrote it, ate it , threw up and said "here it is".

I don't care if mr door is refernced in their last 3 terrible games. Control is guilty of having bad-non story too. But at least it was fun to play. QB had the best story but was a joke to play. Remedy is not what it used to.
And MR DOOR is just some side character with only few mentions here and there. nothing major. Besides... I don't understand his importance here talking about saga. If she was white, he could also be. Whats the big deal.

 

[Fredrik]

Def wont be buying Spiderman 2 when it comes to PC. I regret buying Spiderman and Miles Morales anyway but at least i got both for less than £10 each on key sites.

Insomniac didnt make Ghosts of Tshushima right?, because i really want to play that when it comes to PC.

Sucker Punch made Ghost. But I bet this is industrywide, we just don’t know it, yet. Try to walk through Neon City in Starfield without thinking about this video now.

 

[Bruno_Arrais85]

fuck this "Latinx" shit

 

[Flutta]

So we got "I look like I have a penis, now watch me fuck"-Abby, Kratos, who went from god of war to self loathing wimp-dad of war and Peter Parker who went from Hero to "I'm just a white male, please tell me what to do"-nobody...

Yeah, future is looking bright for Sony first party.

Thank god for Japanese developers, the west is turning into a looney bin.

The ESG rating system has reached Japan. Not sure how woke their product will become but one thing is for sure things are changing over there too.

The people who are pushing this woke garbage are people with alot of power and influence in the world and any type of entertainment, organization or system
will be affected by it one way or another. These things have no border they want it to reach every corner of world.

From what i’ve seen games and movies from Korea are still not affected by any of this.

 

[Stuart360]

Sucker Punch made Ghost. But I bet this is industrywide, we just don’t know it, yet. Try to walk through Neon City in Starfield without thinking about this video now.

I remember walking around New Atlantis for the first time right after launch, and like 90% of the people were black, or none white.
I think they tried to pass it off as a bug though and i believe they patched it to be more mixed.

 

[DeepEnigma]

This shit is why Trump will win 2024.

Nah, they know what they can get away with. They've been doing it unabated in front of everyone's face now.

 

[John Bilbo]

No you said “made to appeal to white men”. So again which games are designed to appeal to white men? Give me some examples. It has to be easy.

Minesweeper. I love it, but only during winter. In the summer I get too tanned for that shit.

 

[GermanZepp]

To people clamoring that ND/tlou2 is woke. It's not that. These are the staples I would consider for woke game:
-Characters exist JUST TO BE lgbtq+. No other traits are more important
-Old characters are replaced by those characters
-No traditional male/female roles allowed. At least not purely or if anything straight Man = bad
-Forced diversity
-usually game/character is woke where it absolutely doesn't matter and we don't need to know sexuality or political stances.
-Sweet baby inc - leading in woke writing. Slowly but surely manipulating the population to the point crap like Angrboda or playable atreus is acceptable. Nobody want to spend 2 hours with angrboda or play as atreus.... in gow game.

Some examples
-Saga is mild woke character. She would exist in the story no matter if she is white or black. Although we al know why she is black
-Female Ratchet only exists to have female in there. She has no purpose.
-Pregnant woman on battlefield in TLOU2? not woke. It's an apocalypse and their leader is an idiot. Could be bad writing
-Abby with huge gains in tlou2? not woke. there is a whole reason behind it. There are normal women too
-Trans kid in tlou2? Sure maybe but he serves purpose to show how religious that gang is which cast him away. Could be in any story. Seems believable.

 

[lh032]

I mean its New York City man.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/newyorkcitynewyork/PST045222

yet the majority of the villains you fought on the street in the game are caucasians, weird.

 

[kyussman]

Why are people getting their knickers in a twist? A: isn't it a great game and B: isn't New York ethnically and racially diverse AF? Surely Insomniac Games are merely making sure that the New York in their game represents the actual New York and not some butt fuck Alabama hick town?? I don't get it

The irony is that if Insomniac did make a game set in a butt fuck Alabama hick town......it would look just like New York does,because these are the rules now.

 

[DeepEnigma]

yet the majority of the villains you fought on the street in the game are caucasians, weird.

That's where the NY Italian, Irish. Albanian, Russian and Jewish representation ended up.

 

[balls of snow]

of course forpoken got better story than alan trash 2. How is that even a question. And it got more believable characters than Saga Anderson, the most boring female protagonist with no character of her own whatsoever. People disliked Abby? She at least was someone with her own traits. Saga doesn't react to stuff, is not bothered by anything and overcomes her dark fears in 10 minutes.
That game is sam lake wankfest with simple story being so convoluted, like if king wrote it, ate it , threw up and said "here it is".

I don't care if mr door is refernced in their last 3 terrible games. Control is guilty of having bad-non story too. But at least it was fun to play. QB had the best story but was a joke to play. Remedy is not what it used to.
And MR DOOR is just some side character with only few mentions here and there. nothing major. Besides... I don't understand his importance here talking about saga. If she was white, he could also be. Whats the big deal.

I'll take your word for it since you are what, the one in 10 people to ever finish Forspoken. Now talk about race being a non-issue, if Frey was a hot white bimbo the game would sell millions.

As I said Mr Door was an established character beforehand since Quantum Break, so you would...whitewash him just to get a white Saga? Interesting.