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CNBC — Can The Sony PlayStation Remain The Top-Selling Gaming Console?

ManaByte

ManaByte

Member
tmlDan said:
How so? I really don't get this logic unless you only focus on static games and console (they're pretty equal in console sales) sales numbers. You have to look at Revenue, business acumen, and future proofing.

PS has cloud, a sub service, way more revenue, way more options to expand than Nintendo.
Click to expand...
Nintendo is the richest company in Japan with zero debt. They aren’t laying off a thousand people and closing studios.
 
thicc_girls_are_teh_best

thicc_girls_are_teh_best

Member
Gaiff said:
But Nintendo still makes more profits and has 1st-party sales that make Sony's top-sellers look like a bunch of indie games.
Click to expand...

Most of Nintendo's 1P best-sellers are about par with Sony's when it comes to units moved. I.e games like Fire Emblem and Metroid Dread are performing about as good if actually less unit-wise than Rift Apart despite being on a system with much higher install base.

Yes Nintendo has the Smash Bros. and Mario Karts doing 50+ million numbers but that's the exception among Nintendo's stuff. Most of their 1P that do big, which aren't BOTW/TOTK do between 10-20 million tops.

Gaiff said:
That they hopped out of the graphics arms race before inevitably crashing like Sony is about to might have been more foresight rather than an admission of defeat. Now, Sony are the ones producing games costing $200M+ with no end in sight. They even need to port them to PC to recoup their investments and effectively cannot turn back because it's their niche and they're the best at it.
Click to expand...

Who's making up this narrative that Sony "can't make smaller games"? Because their fans won't accept it? Who exactly among their fans? I'm pretty sure OG PlayStation fans would more than want AA smaller titles to come back. It's only the dudebro COD-obsessed newer hardcore who would probably be less accepting of those titles, but why should they matter?

If Sony made more of the less cinematic AA style games they'd still be appeasing a good chunk of their core fanbase and also attract new fans. There is arguably a more accepting and larger market for IP like Patapon, Gravity Rush etc. today than there was a decade ago or during the 7th generation.

Gaiff said:
Sony definitely beat Nintendo with the PS1 and PS2. Nintendo got smart with the Wii, bombed with the Wii U but came back stronger than ever with the Switch. Nintendo is in a better position now than they were with the DS and Wii.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this.
 
M

MisterXDTV

Member
SlimySnake said:
Yes. They locked them out of the console business forever. 125 million compared to the 150 ds + 100 million wii is not winning.

They no longer get cod, ac, battlefield, and any of the big third party games Sony gets 30% royalties from. Re4, Star Wars, Alan wake, avatar, cod, and even hogwarts which came out on ps5, pc and xs and sold a billion worth of copies before it was hastily ported to switch for a fraction of the sales.

Nintendo has effectively conceded the console space but i would give the credit to both ms and Sony for that. Not just Sony.
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Exactly, people seem to forget that to stay relevant Nintendo had to squeeze its "home+portable" console business. to just 1 console that does both

And that after they had already given up on the high-powered home console market after the GameCube flopped

Just compare that to the SNES+GameBoy era or even the Wii+DS era, I don't know how you can call that winning.

And we all know that the Switch successor won't repeat the same success of the original Switch, just like the Wii U flopped after the Wii
 
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StreetsofBeige

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Celine said:
Makes me laughs when clueless people says Sony caused Nintendo to steer away from traditional console.
Nintendo is a trend-setter by vocation, in fact their unique hardware/software integration is cited left and right when Nintendo explains why they are so successful.
Their business strives by introducing novel concepts that differ from the past.
When Nintendo imposed the d-pad with the introduction of the Famicom/NES what was perceived as the tradition was the crappy joysticks from Atari and others console makers of the time before.
Detractors use the term 'tradition' thinking to belittle Nintendo when Nintendo couldn't care less about previously set standards (instead Nintendo very much cares about 'legacy').


And yet Nintendo outprofiting PlayStation (SIE/SCE) is a constant through decades (with a couple exceptions) and not a spotty occurrence.


6lNmVEg.jpg
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Crazy. From PS1 start to around 2014, Sony's gaming division collectively was around breakeven eyeballing it. All the profits they made during PS1 and PS2 got drained by PS3. It wasnt until 2015 when things really picked up in terms of profits. That's when gamers started really transitioning to digital downloads, MTX hit gaming hard on every platform, and PS gamers paying for PS4 MP online was in full swing.

Since 2019 (before covid hit the fan skewing sales and profits for lots of companies), their annual profit has plateaued despite sales increasing. Going by the charts, Sony's gaming division was more profitable in 2019 than now.
 
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Loomy

Loomy

Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Sony and Nintendo do not directly compete. Most people who own a switch also own an Xbox or a Playstation.
 
Dorfdad

Dorfdad

Gold Member
Who can actually challenge Sony going forward? Nintendo do can to a degree but they won’t chase high end but Nintendo do having a 4k / 60 solutions would be a major player in converting AAA gamers. Mario/COD/GTA all on a single system would be hard to pass up.

Microsoft will come out with another generation of consoles / but I think they are going to become a developer/publisher like a bigger EA.
They have one console left in them just to appease current customers. But their future looks to be cloud based though they have t really shown us their cards yet.

Apple could be a player but apple much like Nintendo plays their own game and rules.
They could reposition the Apple TV into a media center / game console easily but I don’t feel they have anyone onboard who is vested in gaming or cares that much outside monetization.
With an M3 chip and storage the Apple TV could become a real gaming console, I just don’t see them caring enough to get AAA developers to invest in them.

So who does that leave? Tencent? They own a ton of IP’s but nothing that would make you only buy their platform.

This all is very bad for gaming as a whole as Sony will 100% not push for bleeding edge in consoles and instead become very Apple like. Minimal spec bump as they have no real competition.

Who can challenge them and how?
 
PleazureDome

PleazureDome

Member
Celine said:
And yet Nintendo outprofiting PlayStation (SIE/SCE) is a constant through decades (with a couple exceptions) and not a spotty occurrence.
Click to expand...

Of course Nintendo makes more money on their games because graphically it looks like it cost a $1.50 to make and I can play them on my Swatch. Candy Crush probably has more Fidelity.

* $1.50 USD = 1.37 EUR
 
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Impotaku

Impotaku

Member
Here's a thread full of GAF experts it got so embarassing with how spot on they all were they had to lock the thread.
www.neogaf.com

Betting time: Do you think the Switch will be a success?

I always love to retrospectively read GAF's prediction threads and see how many crows are being served, the thread placing WiiU/XB first and Sony disappearing or failing with the PS4 before this gen started is so much fun! So now that we have enough details about the price, specs, launch line...
www.neogaf.com www.neogaf.com
 
tmlDan

tmlDan

Member
LordOcidax said:
If is that easy… why Sony is not being as profitable as Nintendo?
Click to expand...
Where did i say it's easy, i said it's easier.

You can cut costs buy closing studios, reducing employee count, forcing a reduction in studio spending, reducing timelines with better production timelines and smaller games and still raking in third party revenue alongside subs and first party releases.

It's not easy, but its easier than convincing a younger, more casual audiences to spend more money on mtx and investing in games like Sony does. That's why third party games do pretty poorly (in comparison) on nintendo systems but mario kart sells 50 million. They also have a very poor online infrastructure and a poor sub service.
 
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Ogbert

Ogbert

Member
MisterXDTV said:
Exactly, people seem to forget that to stay relevant Nintendo had to squeeze its "home+portable" console business. to just 1 console that does both

And that after they had already given up on the high-powered home console market after the GameCube flopped

Just compare that to the SNES+GameBoy era or even the Wii+DS era, I don't know how you can call that winning.

And we all know that the Switch successor won't repeat the same success of the original Switch, just like the Wii U flopped after the Wii
Click to expand...
By the same logic, Nintendo eviscerated Sony in the handheld market such that Sony have all but left the market. They have brushed them aside in Japan and their first party games continue to dominate when rarely, if ever, discounted.

NeoGaf has this weird obsession with trying to claim that handhelds don't count.
 
Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
Ogbert said:
By the same logic, Nintendo eviscerated Sony in the handheld market such that Sony have all but left the market. They have brushed them aside in Japan and their first party games continue to dominate when rarely, if ever, discounted.

NeoGaf has this weird obsession with trying to claim that handhelds don't count.
Click to expand...

Sony left the handheld market because of Sony, not Nintendo
 
Gaiff

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Most of Nintendo's 1P best-sellers are about par with Sony's when it comes to units moved. I.e games like Fire Emblem and Metroid Dread are performing about as good if actually less unit-wise than Rift Apart despite being on a system with much higher install base.

Yes Nintendo has the Smash Bros. and Mario Karts doing 50+ million numbers but that's the exception among Nintendo's stuff. Most of their 1P that do big, which aren't BOTW/TOTK do between 10-20 million tops.
Click to expand...
I'm talking about Nintendo's top-sellers so why are bringing up Fire Emblem? Look at the 10 best-selling Nintendo 1st-party on Switch vs the top Sony's top 10 on PS4. Sony gets utterly embarrassed.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
Who's making up this narrative that Sony "can't make smaller games"? Because their fans won't accept it? Who exactly among their fans? I'm pretty sure OG PlayStation fans would more than want AA smaller titles to come back. It's only the dudebro COD-obsessed newer hardcore who would probably be less accepting of those titles, but why should they matter?
Click to expand...
When they actually make more smaller games, maybe this would be valid. As of now, Sony's budgets have ballooned up so much they're looking for more ways to monetize them and have taken to porting their games to PC, something Nintendo never even entertained. It's telling when Pokémon S/V was outselling Ragnarok, and Super Mario Bros Wonder was outselling Spider-Man 2. Nintendo's games probably had 10% of the budget of Sony's games.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best said:
If Sony made more of the less cinematic AA style games they'd still be appeasing a good chunk of their core fanbase and also attract new fans. There is arguably a more accepting and larger market for IP like Patapon, Gravity Rush etc. today than there was a decade ago or during the 7th generation.
Click to expand...
Then they need to bring more of them. Those $200M games taking 5-8 years to develop can't just keep increasing in time and money.
 
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Ogbert

Ogbert

Member
LordOcidax said:
Who is doing a better Job?
Click to expand...
Impossible to say.

From a purely financial point of view, I think Nintendo are in a more comfortable position.

Sony face more challenges, simply from how volatile and competitive their corner of the industry is. To say nothing of the eye watering cost of Western AAA game development.
 
Ogbert

Ogbert

Member
Ass of Can Whooping said:
Lol bullshit. Their strength was the same traditional console as Xbox and PS until it no longer wasnt
Click to expand...
Wrong, again.

Their strength has always been the best games. They've worked out the best way to get as many people as possible to play those games.

Sony conceded handhelds as their games require more power than on offer. It's why the portal is a streaming device.
 
Ass of Can Whooping

Ass of Can Whooping

Member
Ogbert said:
Wrong, again.

Their strength has always been the best games. They've worked out the best way to get as many people as possible to play those games.

Sony conceded handhelds as their games require more power than on offer. It's why the portal is a streaming device.
Click to expand...

We're talking about selling hardware, not games.
 
S0ULZB0URNE

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Ass of Can Whooping said:
We're talking about selling hardware, not games.
Click to expand...
As far as hardware...Sony whooped them so bad they had to start the gimmicks to be successful.

I wish Nintendo wasn't so scared and came back with a HOME CONSOLE that had comparable specs and a comparable online component.

I honestly rather the above than what Sony offers as I like Nintendo’s IP's more.
 
Ogbert

Ogbert

Member
Ass of Can Whooping said:
We're talking about selling hardware, not games.
Click to expand...
The two are inextricably linked.

No one buys MS consoles because their games suck ass.

Nintendo first party titles do not require the graphical horsepower that Sony titles do. The Wii was a toaster with a dildo wand attached to it, but you still got Mario Galaxy. Handhelds were clearly the natural place for their games, as the companies DNA rests in IPs that can take advantage of the format.

Sony IPs, in contrast, look to push technology as much as gaming. Hence their operating costs.
 
XXL

XXL

Member
The truth is....

- Playstation beat Nintendo in home consoles.

- Nintendo beat Playstation in handhelds.
Truth Lying GIF by Tangina Stone

They both forced the other to pivot.

I know its not as sexy as some fanboys of these two companies would like it to be.....

But that's the truth.
 
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M

MisterXDTV

Member
Ogbert said:
By the same logic, Nintendo eviscerated Sony in the handheld market such that Sony have all but left the market. They have brushed them aside in Japan and their first party games continue to dominate when rarely, if ever, discounted.

NeoGaf has this weird obsession with trying to claim that handhelds don't count.
Click to expand...

Absolutely true, Sony left the handheld market because Nintendo killed them with the 3DS vs Vita

But let's not rewrite history here

Nintendo has had the top selling portable console since 1989 and its importance in the Nintendo business was WAY more what it ever was for Playstation

To stay relevant they had to "merge" the home console with the portable console, something they never had to do from 1989 to 2017

You can say that it was because of the advancements in technology, but the reality is a dedicated Nintendo home console would have flopped hard compared to Playstation just like the GameCube and the Wii U did.

Now it will be interesting to see what happens with a Switch 2 or whatever it's called. But again, a lightning never strikes twice in the same place.....
 
Kings Field

Kings Field

Member
Give me a Sony console with their games, Xbox UI, high end PC power, and Nintendo Games and portability please and thank you.
 
T

T-0800

Member
MS essentially dropping out returns us to the glory days of Megadrive vs Super Nintendo. Throw in PC and mobile and I think that is a pretty good market.
 
Unknown?

Unknown?

Member
MisterXDTV said:
Absolutely true, Sony left the handheld market because Nintendo killed them with the 3DS vs Vita

But let's not rewrite history here

Nintendo has had the top selling portable console since 1989 and its importance in the Nintendo business was WAY more what it ever was for Playstation

To stay relevant they had to "merge" the home console with the portable console, something they never had to do from 1989 to 2017

You can say that it was because of the advancements in technology, but the reality is a dedicated Nintendo home console would have flopped hard compared to Playstation just like the GameCube and the Wii U did.

Now it will be interesting to see what happens with a Switch 2 or whatever it's called. But again, a lightning never strikes twice in the same place.....
Click to expand...
It wasn't 3DS that killed the Vita, it was mobile. 3DS didn't do anywhere near its predecessor and had to slash the price heavily or of would have suffered the same fate as the Vita.
 
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M

MisterXDTV

Member
Unknown? said:
It wasn't 3DS that killed the Vita, it was mobile. 3DS didn't do anywhere near its predecessor and had to slash the price heavily or of would have suffered the same fate as the Vita.
Click to expand...

Yeah Mobile was also a factor but not the main reason:

Mobile improved a lot from 2011 to 2017 but the Switch sold very well for Nintendo.

Now the interesting question becomes: what can Nintendo bring to the table in 2025 to push almost all the Switch users to upgrade to a new system?

My opinion is that software alone with the same IPs they have been selling for 40 years won’t be enough as the hybrid console concept is not as exciting as it was in 2017.
 
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M

mayham2199

Member
Mibu no ookami said:
I think we shouldn't try to forecast too much based off on fads or trends.

I was very much into PC gaming in 1997. Ultimately, I still found my way into consoles, because that's where the games I wanted to play were and how I wanted to play.

There are a lot of genres that just don't work as well on PC as well.

I think it is incumbent upon consoles to really re-focus on their own strengths. Consoles have mirrored PC for the last couple generations, but it doesn't mean that they have to.

You can do whatever you want with a console, PC doesn't have the same freedom in design language. You were never going to get a Wii style gaming on PC.

I think consoles will struggle to keep up with PCs if they just remain PCs, but we don't know the form factor going forward. You could have a console with a dedicated RTX chip or a dedicated AI chip. That's really difficult to replicate on PC at scale. Show me a Steamdeck or windows handheld the size of the Switch Lite.

Dedicated hardware features are how consoles need to differentiate themselves in the future.
Click to expand...
Yep I did the same thing.
 
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