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[LectureMaster]

 

[Kuwitzzer]

The pro is not meant to be a paradigm shit. games are not designed for the pro. they are designed for the base console.

Then what is even the point of releasing one. It does not need to shift anything but it needs to be a worthy upgrade. Otherwise, why even bother releasing a half-ass product.

 

[playsaves3]

The ps4 pro bumped the regs out of the $400 spot down to $300. If this could do that, it would definitely be a good upgrade. If this comes in at $600... it sounds borderline.

I'm not a computer scientist like many here though, so I don't know what it's really going to do. One factor is that when the ps4 pro came out, games were generally running very nicely on the base ps4. Right now, we are seeing games get a little raggedy on the base ps5. That makes this more appealing in an unfortunate way.

I think this is a poor upgrade for 600+ with what we know about the cpu and memory

 

[Audiophile]

You've all been duped. This was a controlled leak by Sony to root out leakers and get egg on everyone's face.

PSSR is real though, but it stands for "PlayStation Screen Space Reflections".

/s

 

[playsaves3]

big mistake Cerny made was to use zen2 when zen3 was coming along before ps5 launch. They should have gone with 6 cores zen3 for ps5 and then 8 cores zen3 for ps5 pro.

Learn this well Mark for ps6 design.

You got it man it’s horrific how downplayed it was the base model used zen 2 instead of 3 especially with what apparently is coming out of this pro model

 

[playsaves3]

1.2 GB extra ram confirmed.

This will help with the RT heavy workloads.

Should have been the full 16gb

 

[playsaves3]

Who are people you speak of?

Having the same CPU and a bigger GPU update sounds like what happened with the PS4 Pro. This will be all about better resolution, framerates, ray Tracing capabilities and that's it.

Which is not what people were expecting let alone wanted from the pro we wanted quality mode at 60 abd performance mode at 120 the former may still be possible but the latter definitely won’t happen what a joke

 

[Gaiff]

Should have been the full 16gb

Not possible.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

CPU also affects doing more raytracing… we have been through this bullcrap before when I was saying it was a travesty the base ps5 used zen 2 instead of zen 3 its gonna be even worse here

I told you for awhile in the other thread it was the Zen 2 CPU

 

[tmlDan]

What the hell am I even reading, do you not remember GTA V on release? It was a miracle that thing even ran on those butt-fuck old consoles from 2005. It was so, so impressive.

idk i thought it looked like ass, even on release. But i guess generic american city impresses people. Future updates and iterations def made it look significantly better, but at launch on consoles it was pretty bad

 

[Mr Moose]

VRS is, i guess, silently doing its job for Xbox, improving fps stability while staying invisible to us.





sony bespoke solutions always comes with a lot of buzz but turns out to be nothing above other solutions, such as vrs which sony now, as seen by DF, prouds to list down as a new ps5 pro capabilities....

PlayStation 5 has a new unit called the Geometry Engine which brings handling of triangles and other primitives under full programmatic control.

As a game developer you're free to ignore its existence and use the PlayStation 5 GPU as if it were no more capable than the PS4 GPU or you can use this new intelligence in various ways.

Simple usage could be performance optimizations such as removing back faced or off-screen vertices and triangles.
More complex usage involves something called primitive shaders which allow the game to synthesize geometry on-the-fly as it's being rendered.

It's a brand new capability.

Using primitive shaders on PlayStation 5 will allow for a broad variety of techniques including smoothly varying level of detail addition of procedural detail to close up objects and improvements to particle effects and other visual special effects.

 

[Gp1]

I'm sure everyone will sell their PS5 and move to the same PC you have

PS5 Pro will sell 0 units....

Happy now?

U mad at what bro?

I don't care how many units will be sold. I simply said i won't worry about changing my PC so soon with this specs.

 

[peish]

You got it man it’s horrific how downplayed it was the base model used zen 2 instead of 3 especially with what apparently is coming out of this pro model

5600x will dominate 3700x

 

[playsaves3]

We've discussed this before. The CPU will bottleneck the OTHER upgrades. Thats why its called a bottleneck.

Dont know how many different examples I have to give to show just how heavy RT is on the CPU. If they want to run RT at 30 fps then they will be fine. if they want to try 60 fps at decent resolutions, they will run into the bottleneck. if they want to run CPU bound games like Dragons Dogma and last years goty Baldurs Gate 3 at 60 fps, thats not going to happen. Point is that the best thing about the console which is the RT upgrades will be held back by the CPU.



Upscaling has a cost on the GPU. You can try this on PC any time you want. Reduce the resolution to 1440p or 1080p from 4k and compare the FPS gained to when you run the game with DLSS at 1080p or 1440p internally.

It's not freeing up anything. If anything, it will take most of that 45% extra power to achieve the upscaling. its also taking up an additional 250 MB of ram which thankfully got an 1.2GB upgrade, but it definitely didnt free up anything.

What it WILL do is give you a cleaner image that is comparable to DLSS rather than FSR2.

Ignore the guy above he said zen 2 over zen 3 was fine and overkill for the base model. What’s funny is rhe base model not using zen 3 at the start is even more damaging for this pro model we would at least have had zen 3 here. Really hope this changes for the ps6 zen 7 or even zen 8 will be out then depending on if it’s 2028 or 9 hopefully they don’t use zen 6

 

[Kings Field]

Give me all the gigabyts, teraflips, and whippleshits.

Give me a fucking release date.

 

[playsaves3]

5600x will dominate 3700x

If we had at least had zen 3 from the start we would have it here how awful. I hope no one cares about gpu benches against the pro we know it’s gonna be bottlenecked out the wazoo

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Then what is even the point of releasing one. It does not need to shift anything but it needs to be a worthy upgrade. Otherwise, why even bother releasing a half-ass product.

1.Keep the price up
2. Justify new marketing cycle
3. be competitive with PC Gaming (in a dumb way)


I wonder if PS is going to lean heavily on PSSR to do marketing wonders just like Nvidia and it's DLSS

 

[onnextflix5]

I know its 6nm, there Is not a lot of head room, but I was wondering if it was not possible to have mode where the gpu power is unchanged, but have the cpu clocked much higher, like 4.5ghz or so, u still have the bandwidth increase and pssr, and it would help cpu bound games.

 

[Kerotan]

They are saying this might be the most power hungry console ever made.

The most power twitter has ever seen.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I know its 6nm, there Is not a lot of head room, but I was wondering if it was not possible to have mode where the gpu power is unchanged, but have cpu clocked much higher, like 4.5ghz or so, u still have the bandwidth increase and pssr, and it would help cpu bound games.

Do we know it’s 6nm for sure?

It’s 70% more tflops.

That’s like 60% more power draw which is 350W

I just don’t think 350W in a console is realistic, that would be a first. Even MS has not gone that high

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

How do I know which games are made before ver.9? Sorry I’m a noob

You dont. And neither do I. A good way to look at it though, is that the PS5pro SDK starts from ver.9+, so a good way to look at it is everything released from the end of this year probably has full support for PS5pro, and everything up to that point, doesn't. Don't fret though. I am sure every dev that patches their game to support PS5pro would make some sort of announcement.

 

[playsaves3]

If they really are still 6nm, there is no way they could have got more performance , it’s literally at maximum power.

Maybe this is an indication we shouldn’t believe all the leaks

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I think this is a poor upgrade for 600+ with what we know about the cpu and memory

Obviously, you have still not learned. And now this with the $600+ nonsense again. Where are you getting that? I have been telling you that this thing would not cost more than $499. $549 at best. All you had to do was look at what they were making. I always said you were one of those people that just dreamed up specs and numbers without an inkling of an idea of how any of this works.

Should have been the full 16gb

Why? Again... do you not understand what the PS5pro is designed to do? Why would they need 16GB of RAM? or should I be asking you if you even know what they do with RAM? I told you specifically a while ago, that the PS5pro would not need more RAM per se, at most 1GB or so. Granted I was off by 200MB, but the point I made then still stands. It doesn't need more RAM because they are not really adding anything to what the game is on the PS5. They are just increasing framerates, and what you need for that is more bandwidth, not more RAM.

They RAM they did add, is only to allow for more RT cache and PSSR.

Which is not what people were expecting let alone wanted from the pro we wanted quality mode at 60 abd performance mode at 120 the former may still be possible but the latter definitely won’t happen what a joke

Don't group poor people into your fallacy. You are the one who was having all those head-in-the-sky expectations. A lot of us repeatedly tried to tell you that the things you were expecting simply were not possible. And not even necessary for something that would be a mid-gen refresh. Oh... and most importantly, for something that is supposed to cost around $499.

 

[playsaves3]

Obviously, you have still not learned. And now this with the $600+ nonsense again. Where are you getting that? I have been telling you that this thing would not cost more than $499. $549 at best. All you had to do was look at what they were making. I always said you were one of those people that just dreamed up specs and numbers without an inkling of an idea of how any of this works.

Why? Again... do you not understand what the PS5pro is designed to do? Why would they need 16GB of RAM? or should I be asking you if you even know what they do with RAM? I told you specifically a while ago, that the PS5pro would not need more RAM per se, at most 1GB or so. Granted I was off by 200MB, but the point I made then still stands. It doesn't need more RAM because they are not really adding anything to what the game is on the PS5. They are just increasing framerates, and what you need for that is more bandwidth, not more RAM.

They RAM they did add, is only to allow for more RT cache and PSSR.

Don't group poor people into your fallacy. You are the one who was having all those head-in-the-sky expectations. A lot of us repeatedly tried to tell you that the things you were expecting simply were not possible. And not even necessary for something that would be a mid-gen refresh. Oh... and most importantly, for something that is supposed to cost around $499.

Hug your last statement contradicts what you said for months yohr literally the person discussing quality mode at 60 and performance mode at 120 as the goal of the pro

 

[playsaves3]

Do we know it’s 6nm for sure?

It’s 70% more tflops.

That’s like 60% more power draw which is 350W

I just don’t think 350W in a console is realistic, that would be a first. Even MS has not gone that high

I refuse to believe half the leaks

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Hug your last statement contradicts what you said for months yohr literally the person discussing quality mode at 60 and performance mode at 120 as the goal of the pro

I was the one saying... and I quote, the PS5 is designed to take quality mode to up to 60fps and performance mode for games that have it to as high as it would go.

And that is exactly what they are doing with the PS5pro. They are attempting to accomplish this using PSSR. PSSR quality for most games would be targeting 60fps. While maintaining IQ akin to what you would find in the 30fps fidelity mode, and if they can do that with fidelity mode, the, PSSR performance mode will naturally run at something above 60fps. These are in games that will have both a 30fps and 60 mode on the base PS5.

I said they were not going to be adding higher rez textures, more geometry or anything. They were just going to do whatever they are doing with the rez and increase the framerate.

So I don't know how anything I said is being contradicted now? Is a framerate bump, not all we are really getting here?

 

[SlimySnake]

I will not get into any CPU stuff, cause we can at least agree that if a game is CPU bottlenecked on the base PS5, then ethere is little that can be done for the framerate on the PS5pro. Hell I have also been saying that for months now. My argument on that however was that we shouldn't act like EVERYTHING on the PS5 is CPU bottleneked and stuck at 30fps. I had also saiod that anything that has a 60fps mode on the PS5, will be cleaned up on the PS5pro.

Now as for the other stuff...


FSR2, DLSS and PSSR have a cost of about 2ms. That is NOT 20-30%. That is 2ms. If your render frame is 16ms, its about 15%. If its 33ms, its around 7%. And again, we are talking about a use case scenario here when these games are already suing some sort of reconstruction. Be that FSR, TAAU, TSR...whatever. So you are not adding much of anything to the render budget by adding PSSR to the frame time, because for the most part its replacing something that is already there.

If this was just about it beig free or not, I wouldn't be saying anything. Because you are right, there will be a cost. But my argument is that that cost has been accounted for. You can legit say, PS5pro is xxx more p[owerful than the PS5. So when it takes a PS5 game, drops the rez, then adds some RT and PSSR, are we still on a performance net positive? or have we suffered? You make it sound like we will be suffering when in reality, we will not. There will be a net performance and IQ gain.

All costs considered.

See my post above. I will run some tests in various games and report back.

The cost has been accounted for in current games that feature FSR2. I was still talking about that example in the sony doc which was talking about 1080p native game. hence the confusion.

And Ive already said several times in the other thread that PS5 will be able to improve an RT game like Avatar from 720p internal to 1080p due to the RT changes despite the meager 45% CPU thanks to the enhanced RT performance. Of course there will be a net positive. I even outlined why i believe it can do Path Tracing in cyberpunk. The thing is that Avatar is already 60 fps with RT on consoles and is one of the rare handful of games to do so. And cyberpunk is not going to run at 60 fps with RT on the PS5 Pro.

As promised, ran some tests on reconstruction. used both dss and fsr2 in various different games.

1) Suicide Squad - CPU bottleneck over 80 fps so couldnt test properly. with ray tracing on, it is still a CPU bottleneck even at around 60 fps with over 20% of the GPU remaining unutilized.
2) Alan Wake 2 - 1080p gives 65 fps maxed out in a gpu limited scenario. 4k fsr2 performance. 47 fps. thats 35% hit. Dont remember the exact numbers for the 1440p native vs 4k fsr quality test, but it was much lower around 15-20% like callisto below.
3) callisto protocol - 82 fps at native 1080p. 68 fsr2 performance. 20%. native 1440p 58 fps. fsr2 quality 52 fps. 11%. Only ray traced tests because in non-RT mode i was hitting my monitors 120 fps cap at 1080p.

it seems to be variable by games. but even if we go by best case scenario, 4k fsr performance is going to be a 20% hit compared to you doing native 1080p. Its definitely not free but if a game is already using fsr2, PSSR will have the same cost.

 

[Bernardougf]

I was 100% supportive of the ps5pro ... but a probably 600 dollar upgrade to have slightly better upscaled resolution and more puddle reflection at 30 fps ... it seems pointless... is time to wait for the release and reviews ... but what seemed like a insta buy now is on hold.

 

[asdasdasdbb]

No way is it on N6. I think it's more likely it's on N4P but it is also using the Slim's case and has similar system power draw.

Case in point, the 7900M is rated for 180 W whereas the Slim with everything is drawing 200 W at the wall.

 

[SlimySnake]

I honestly feel like a cache increase would have been worth more than the clock speed (when you look at the G models of Zen2 in comparison to the high cache models). It could have been transformative in ways that the 10% won't be, IMO.

I always thought that the one thing holding back zen 2 cpus was the lower clocks. My intel is now 3 gens old, same as zen 2, so i highly doubt it has all these new fancy IPC gains. the one thing it can do was hit 4.7 ghz all the time, going up to 5.0 ghz when needed. zen 2 CPUs with their sub 4.0 ghz clocks during games is likely holding them back in single threaded games which is basically every single UE4, UE5, and well, every RT game. Even the avatar devs who created a very well optimized game recently said that they are single threaded and thats the biggest issue with modern games.

So i figured, you go to 4.5 ghz even without zen 4 Ipc gains, and you get that single threaded boost i have been seeing on pc these past few years relative to zen 2 users. They wouldnt have to increase the chip size by adding extra cache, they wouldnt have to do extra r&d work to get zen 4 in their new APU, and the 30% higher clock speeds would be absorbed by the switch to 4nm. but i guess they didnt want to invest in a better cooling solution.

if this thing is $499 or $549 because they are afraid of hitting that ps3 $599 number then im gonna riot.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I always thought that the one thing holding back zen 2 cpus was the lower clocks. My intel is now 3 gens old, same as zen 2, so i highly doubt it has all these new fancy IPC gains. the one thing it can do was hit 4.7 ghz all the time, going up to 5.0 ghz when needed. zen 2 CPUs with their sub 4.0 ghz clocks during games is likely holding them back in single threaded games which is basically every single UE4, UE5, and well, every RT game. Even the avatar devs who created a very well optimized game recently said that they are single threaded and thats the biggest issue with modern games.

So i figured, you go to 4.5 ghz even without zen 4 Ipc gains, and you get that single threaded boost i have been seeing on pc these past few years relative to zen 2 users. They wouldnt have to increase the chip size by adding extra cache, they wouldnt have to do extra r&d work to get zen 4 in their new APU, and the 30% higher clock speeds would be absorbed by the switch to 4nm. but i guess they didnt want to invest in a better cooling solution.

if this thing is $499 or $549 because they are afraid of hitting that ps3 $599 number then im gonna riot.

Zen is crippled by the cache more so than most other architectures have been. At least for gaming. Look at the 5700x and the 5700g, in that instance the peak clocks are identical (base is actually higher on the g model) and just look at the gap in performance there from cache alone (often 20% sometimes much more). Zen 2 looked bad on the 8mb L3 models also.

Though I can see where a higher cache is expensive with Zen 2 since it wasn't designed to break any of that out from the die.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

As promised, ran some tests on reconstruction. used both dss and fsr2 in various different games.

1) Suicide Squad - CPU bottleneck over 80 fps so couldnt test properly. with ray tracing on, it is still a CPU bottleneck even at around 60 fps with over 20% of the GPU remaining unutilized.
2) Alan Wake 2 - 1080p gives 65 fps maxed out in a gpu limited scenario. 4k fsr2 performance. 47 fps. thats 35% hit. Dont remember the exact numbers for the 1440p native vs 4k fsr quality test, but it was much lower around 15-20% like callisto below.
3) callisto protocol - 82 fps at native 1080p. 68 fsr2 performance. 20%. native 1440p 58 fps. fsr2 quality 52 fps. 11%. Only ray traced tests because in non-RT mode i was hitting my monitors 120 fps cap at 1080p.

it seems to be variable by games. but even if we go by best case scenario, 4k fsr performance is going to be a 20% hit compared to you doing native 1080p. Its definitely not free but if a game is already using fsr2, PSSR will have the same cost.

Never said it was free. What i said is that it was always going to give you a net positive. Especially when you are looking at the subject matter. In this case, that subject matter is a 10TF console vs a 16TF console. So its not a direct apples-to-apples comparison. As in, you are not just trying to take 2160p@30fps on the ogPS5 and putting that on another ogPS5. You are taking that and putting that on a PS5Pro.

So right off the bat, you already are getting a performance advantage. Taking the 1.45x at face value, that means your 2160p@30fps PS5 game becomes a 43.5fps PS5pro game. Just by running it on the PS5pro. Then you are dropping the rez....bla bla bla... I am sure you get the point.

And yes, game by game it would always be different... and as I said elsewhere... (cant remember where) that has to do mostly with how the game's engine handles post-processing or all rendering after the reconstruction pass. Some games are top-heavy, so most of the rendering is done pre-reconstruction and the lower rez, in these cases you would notice there isnt that much of a hit/cost. Some games oin the other hand are bottom-heavy, with lots of post-processing that is done on the post-reconstruction output rez. As can imagine... that shit would be expensive.

But all that work was not necessary, all you have proved is that this thing varies on a game-by-game basis. What you needed to do was take the work of sony, Nvidia and AMD. And all parties have literally spelt out exactly what DLSS, FSR and PSSR cost. How devs use that... is a different matter entirely.

 

[leo-j]

I always thought that the one thing holding back zen 2 cpus was the lower clocks. My intel is now 3 gens old, same as zen 2, so i highly doubt it has all these new fancy IPC gains. the one thing it can do was hit 4.7 ghz all the time, going up to 5.0 ghz when needed. zen 2 CPUs with their sub 4.0 ghz clocks during games is likely holding them back in single threaded games which is basically every single UE4, UE5, and well, every RT game. Even the avatar devs who created a very well optimized game recently said that they are single threaded and thats the biggest issue with modern games.

So i figured, you go to 4.5 ghz even without zen 4 Ipc gains, and you get that single threaded boost i have been seeing on pc these past few years relative to zen 2 users. They wouldnt have to increase the chip size by adding extra cache, they wouldnt have to do extra r&d work to get zen 4 in their new APU, and the 30% higher clock speeds would be absorbed by the switch to 4nm. but i guess they didnt want to invest in a better cooling solution.

if this thing is $499 or $549 because they are afraid of hitting that ps3 $599 number then im gonna riot.

Tbh if they learned anything from the ps5 selling out for 2+ years at $499, I wouldn’t be surprised if they launch pro at as high as $699 with these specs, though I totally expect a $549-599 console. They tried it earlier in 2023 with the Spiderman 2 ps5 for $599 which sold out pretty quickly.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

No way is it on N6. I think it's more likely it's on N4P but it is also using the Slim's case and has similar system power draw.

Case in point, the 7900M is rated for 180 W whereas the Slim with everything is drawing 200 W at the wall.

Why does DF believe it’s 6nm?

They said N4P would be “too expensive” but this is a premium product with low volumes, I don’t see the issue

6nm seems impractical for a console solution based on power draw

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I always thought that the one thing holding back zen 2 cpus was the lower clocks. My intel is now 3 gens old, same as zen 2, so i highly doubt it has all these new fancy IPC gains. the one thing it can do was hit 4.7 ghz all the time, going up to 5.0 ghz when needed. zen 2 CPUs with their sub 4.0 ghz clocks during games is likely holding them back in single threaded games which is basically every single UE4, UE5, and well, every RT game. Even the avatar devs who created a very well optimized game recently said that they are single threaded and thats the biggest issue with modern games.

So i figured, you go to 4.5 ghz even without zen 4 Ipc gains, and you get that single threaded boost i have been seeing on pc these past few years relative to zen 2 users. They wouldnt have to increase the chip size by adding extra cache, they wouldnt have to do extra r&d work to get zen 4 in their new APU, and the 30% higher clock speeds would be absorbed by the switch to 4nm. but i guess they didnt want to invest in a better cooling solution.

if this thing is $499 or $549 because they are afraid of hitting that ps3 $599 number then im gonna riot.

Always wondered, wouldn't a sizeable clock boost for the CPU if it were possible also have necessitated a cache boost too? Or not you would just have CPU cores waiting for work to do.

 

[Loxus]

The Pro is still faster than PS5 when the PS5 hits it's worst case scenario in a complex game, which is a 10% loss.The PS5 is clocked at 2.23GHz and the Pro is 2.18,I person believe it's actual clock rate is 2.2GHz even.

It could be this scenario.
Normally the PS5 Pro runs at PS5's clocks of 3.5 GHz for CPU and 2.23 GHz for GPU.

Smartshift work as normal like the below image.

According to Tom Henderson. There is a High CPU Frequency Mode.

CPU​

The CPU is identical to the standard PlayStation 5, however, the Pro has a ‘High CPU Frequency Mode”, which takes the CPU to 3.85GHz – A 10% increase over the standard console.

In High CPU Frequency Mode, more power is allocated to the CPU and will downclock the GPU by around 1.5%, resulting in roughly 1% lower GPU performance.


This High CPU Frequency Mode is basically the opposite of how smart shift currently works on PS5. Instead of the CPU sending unused power to the GPU, the GPU sends unused power to the CPU.

2.23GHz - 2% max = 2.18GHz.
You were right on that part.
So the PS5 running in High CPU Frequency Mode is 3.85 GHz for CPU and 2.18 GHz for GPU.

What I don't understand is the 300 TOPS number.

Not to be confused with Int8.

• 8-bit integer (INT8)
• 8-bit floating point (FP8)

8-bit floating point format = FP8/FP32 = 1028 FLOPS.

Using 60CUs
60CU × 2 AI Accelerators × 1028 FLOPS × 2.23GHz = 275 TOPS.

Kepler = 60 × 2 × 1028 × 2.450 = 302 TOPS.


Could there also be a High GPU Frequency Mode as well?

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Tbh if they learned anything from the ps5 selling out for 2+ years at $499, I wouldn’t be surprised if they launch pro at as high as $699 with these specs, though I totally expect a $549-599 console. They tried it earlier in 2023 with the Spiderman 2 ps5 for $599 which sold out pretty quickly.

Not a chance lol. I fully expect them to sell it for $499. Without a disc drive. And probably have a $550 SKU bundled with a disc drive. If they really wanna push it, then they sell it for $550 without a disc drive and have a $600 SKU with a disc drive. Just don't see that happening though. I just don't see them selling it for anything more than a $100 over the base PS5.

Why does DF believe it’s 6nm?

They said N4P would be “too expensive” but this is a premium product with low volumes, I don’t see the issue

6nm seems impractical for a console solution based on power draw

My money is on 6nm. People seem to forget that the PS5 (6nm) was drawing 10% less power than the launch PS5. And the PS5 6nm draws a peak of around 225W under load. I can easily see this being like 280 - 300W for the PS5pro.

 

[playsaves3]

GASP! You mean the people who have been downplaying a PS5 Pro for months since they were desperately wanting a mid-gen Xbox Series Pro, are downplaying the improvements of the leaked specs for PS5 Pro?

I would have NEVER guessed Digital Foundry would do such a thing. Keep in mind, these are the same dudes constantly surprised when PS5 outperforms Series X in whatever multiplat 3+ years after release, like they could've never seen it coming.

I'd much rather wait for NX Gamer's take on the specs, if I'm looking for a professional tech-focused analysis. DF lost that credibility years ago.



The only really negative thing about Pro's specs IMO is no RAM capacity increase. Most of the other choices, I feel, can be rationalized easily.

RAM bandwidth? Better memory subsystem including the caches on CPU & GPU.

CPU clock? PS5 & Pro BC for PS6 has to be taken into consideration.

TF? They're not that important for game performance, plus code optimized for dual-issue will leverage a lot of the 33.5 TF number.

The real stuff of interest for PS5 Pro tech-wise, to me, is the PSSR upscaling. I feel like it's going to be thought of lightly like the PS5's I/O subsystem, because people are just looking at (generally very PC-centric) performance metrics and comparing the consoles to that. But like with base PS5, the actual games will punch above whatever paper specs people feel are disappointing.

I was really excited for the pro to the point I was ready to pay as much as 699 diskless I just wanted to know all games could guaranteed have a 60fps mode on it even if it had to be 720p and with these specs that can’t happen.

 

[playsaves3]

I was the one saying... and I quote, the PS5 is designed to take quality mode to up to 60fps and performance mode for games that have it to as high as it would go.

And that is exactly what they are doing with the PS5pro. They are attempting to accomplish this using PSSR. PSSR quality for most games would be targeting 60fps. While maintaining IQ akin to what you would find in the 30fps fidelity mode, and if they can do that with fidelity mode, the, PSSR performance mode will naturally run at something above 60fps. These are in games that will have both a 30fps and 60 mode on the base PS5.

I said they were not going to be adding higher rez textures, more geometry or anything. They were just going to do whatever they are doing with the rez and increase the framerate.

So I don't know how anything I said is being contradicted now? Is a framerate bump, not all we are really getting here?

So you agree with me then… how do you expect them to get the cpu limited performance modes up?

 

[MarkMe2525]

People might be underselling how much PSSR can free up resources for other things

Would the freed up resources be mostly limited to gpu compute oriented processes? In other words, is this greater gpu compute going to reduce cpu load?

 

[ZiggyPop1991]

Then what is even the point of releasing one. It does not need to shift anything but it needs to be a worthy upgrade. Otherwise, why even bother releasing a half-ass product.

Because you don’t have to buy it. The same with people who choose to upgrade their phones and pcs and they still work. We are literally seeing studios lay off, close, etc due to these high developing cost. Devs keeps chasing graphics and pretty things yet aren’t focused on things like ai and other under the good stuff. There will be people out there who will buy this once it’s marketed as the “best place to play” games.

 

[Kuwitzzer]

Because you don’t have to buy it. The same with people who choose to upgrade their phones and pcs and they still work. We are literally seeing studios lay off, close, etc due to these high developing cost. Devs keeps chasing graphics and pretty things yet aren’t focused on things like ai and other under the good stuff. There will be people out there who will buy this once it’s marketed as the “best place to play” games.

I actually want to buy it even at a high price if the specs are impressive but these look really meh and frustrating.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I actually want to buy it even at a high price if the specs are impressive but these look really meh and frustrating.

PC

 

[Crayon]

I think this is a poor upgrade for 600+ with what we know about the cpu and memory

I don't think we know as much as we think we know, because we have a tendency to talk out of we's ass. The performance will be born out by what we get on screen, and in what games.

These specs are interesting, but the best piece of info I'm working off of is that Sony seems to have been getting what they want out of their console hardware since PS4. Whether what they want is what I want, idk. But it's unlikely they actually fuck something up like oops we forgot to put more memory.

 

[Kuwitzzer]

PC

It's not like I have not been gaming on PC the last few years.

 

[Bulletbrain]

Why does DF believe it’s 6nm?

They said N4P would be “too expensive” but this is a premium product with low volumes, I don’t see the issue

6nm seems impractical for a console solution based on power draw

They believe it's because of two main reasons: (1) clock speed changes and; (2) architecture size.

”PS5 Pro only has limited clock speed increases (or actual decreases potentially) and the size of the GPU architecturally has not doubled in the way it did with PS4 Pro”

CPU clock uplift is just 0.3ghz while calculated GPU clock speed (via stated TF figures) may actually be lower than standard PS5.

"What's curious is that Sony's stated teraflops figure suggests a peak GPU clock speed of 2.18GHz - which is actually a touch slower than the 2.23GHz in the standard PS5. Again, this does suggest either a conservative power limit, retaining the 6nm silicon process technology - or both"

 

[MarkMe2525]

Also amusing that Alex goes off on a "TFs are not everything speech" (exact opposite message being conveyed 4 years ago when 12 TF Xbox Series X was obviously > PS5 - even when everyone with half a brain could see that raw theoretical compute of a GPU is a meaningless measurement).

If I recall correctly, DF shied away from the "TF's mean everything" sentiment as well. Idk, maybe I missed a certain video where they proclaimed "Series X is better because it has more teraflops". What I do recall them often talking about was that they believed the wider gpu compute capabilities would lead to better results in "next gen" engines, that were geared to take advantage of the extra CU's (This didn't really turn out to be the case as often as they speculated) They were looking at (along with many in the gaming community) a spec sheet that showed a stronger cpu and gpu on the Series X, it isn't surprising that they came to those conclusions.

After all the dust has settled, I think it is obvious that Sony made some good decisions in the design of the PS5, internally anyways. The PS5 has hosted some of this gens best looking games.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It's not like I have not been gaming on PC the last few years.

It's like being frustrated knowing that developers are not taking advantage of a 4090 to design a game around its capabilities

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

They believe it's because of two main reasons: (1) clock speed changes and; (2) architecture size.

”PS5 Pro only has limited clock speed increases (or actual decreases potentially) and the size of the GPU architecturally has not doubled in the way it did with PS4 Pro”

CPU clock uplift is just 0.3ghz while calculated GPU clock speed (via stated TF figures) may actually be lower than standard PS5.

"What's curious is that Sony's stated teraflops figure suggests a peak GPU clock speed of 2.18GHz - which is actually a touch slower than the 2.23GHz in the standard PS5. Again, this does suggest either a conservative power limit, retaining the 6nm silicon process technology - or both"

The clock decrease is tiny though

 

[mckmas8808]

That means we won't see you any more in these threads right?

Those of us who care and may even be hearing all the good stuff about this from industry folk will continue to be excited about this. And to be clear, that's what I got from pre PS5 launch as well as PS5 Pro dev opinion. It's very good and a step in the right direction.

Exactly. If the PS5 Pro isn't for you then I hope they don't come back to the thread.