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[-PXG-]

The thought of iOS games bullshit gaining market share makes me sick.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I've become quite out of touch with the mainstream. I can't tolerate the wireless data and texting fees so I've never bothered with a smartphone. The pervasiveness of all this extra functionality just astounds me.

The ideal setup these days would be to have a portable 3G device and use a VOIP service for voice. Your effective bill would be as low as a dumbphone but you'd get the functionality of a smartphone. The problem is that most providers have minimum monthly bill commitments to get the subsidized contract.

 

[Lonely1]

Does it really count, though? In both instances, a good deal of people bought a Wii for Wii Sports and MAYBE a few other offshoot Wii -whatever- titles, and then never really branched beyond. For smart phones, I guess the equivalent would be Angry Birds. Are these people actually into gaming or are they just playing some games?

Is there a difference?

Except, Wii had software sales that surpassed the other consoles during its time of dominance.

 

[Lonely1]

True, but that's also true of phones.

Edit:

And tablets while we're on the subject.

Actually, they do. At least Apple won't let their product to "devaluate" by letting old hardware in the channel for long.

 

[Nekofrog]

Except, Wii had software sales that surpassed the other consoles during its time of dominance.

But that's the point; the Wii did. But will the Wii act as that "gateway" that Nintendo was hoping for in getting those people to continue to be customers, 4, 5, 6, 10 years down the line?

 

[Londa]

Does it really count, though? In both instances, a good deal of people bought a Wii for Wii Sports and MAYBE a few other offshoot Wii -whatever- titles, and then never really branched beyond. For smart phones, I guess the equivalent would be Angry Birds. Are these people actually into gaming or are they just playing some games?

Is there a difference?

I would assume so. I have heard of people in their 50s+ owning a Wii and having regular Wii Sports parties on weekend nights. Why would they never go buy another game if they regularly game? There are plenty of games that fall under casual on the Wii.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If you want to get technical The various I devices pose a threat to every hardware maker in the game industry. You already get people saying I rather pay a dollar for some rip off flash game than pay whatever amount for a normally developed game.

How long before that starts happening for console titles? Its not just a Nintendo issue.

I don't think that they pose any threat to consoles to be honest. Those iPhone games are appealing because they're largely made up of pick and play type games. And those are what many people argue handheld games should be. The fact that they're cheap and many people have access to them because they own an iPhone only make them that much more appealing in comparison to the PSP, 3DS or DS. Another factor is that people are always going to carry their phone around with them while that probably won't be the case for a traditional handheld system.

That's why I don't think that they're a threat to consoles. You generally buy a console for experiences that really can't be replicated on an iPhone.

 

[SmokyDave]

The thought of iOS games bullshit gaining market share makes me sick.

Me too. People either like exactly what I like or they can get off my lawn.

Fuckers.

Spoiler

The thought of paying £40 for a handheld game makes me sick.

 

[commish]

Me too. People either like exactly what I like or they can get off my lawn.

Fuckers.

Spoiler

The thought of paying £40 for a handheld game makes me sick.

Pretty much. I put in some quality time with Puzzle Quest 2 this weekend on my ipad, which cost $5.

 

[Interfectum]

That's why I don't think that they're a threat to consoles. You generally buy a console for experiences that really can't be replicated on an iPhone.

iPhone and iPad are very much a threat to consoles but only in the casual sector. The audience Nintendo was going after for the Wii is very much the same audience that would be happy with an iPad / Angry Birds.

The casual blue ocean is now red with Apple's carnage and it's time for the game industry to start focusing on making good, innovative games instead of dumbed down trash for the masses.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

In the end, more consumers playing games is a great deal better than where we were in the late 70's and early 80's. But if you have a lot of emotion tied into what they play, you may be disappointed. I kinda like the idea of playing small, quick fun games on the go with my phone. I do it now. I won't pay a lot of money for it. IOS and Android devs should be more worried about what happens when they try to make any real money off their games and not what Sony and Nintendo is doing. Cuz right now, I would limit my gaming to $1 or less. I'm not really into paying for half-baked games with no experience on how developed these gaming ideas are. Angry Birds is fun but I hear it doesn't seem fleshed out.

 

[Karma]

And while we do not include retail PC game revenue in our total snapshot, which we estimate was $700 million in 2010, it’s worth noting that smartphone and tablet game revenue surpassed the U.S. PC game category for the first time in 2010.

Had no idea it was that big already.

 

[Master Milk]

iPhone and iPad are very much a threat to consoles but only in the casual sector. The audience Nintendo was going after for the Wii is very much the same audience that would be happy with an iPad / Angry Birds.

The casual blue ocean is now red with Apple's carnage and it's time for the game industry to start focusing on making good, innovative games instead of dumbed down trash for the masses.

But, aren't casual console games and casual handheld games still different experiences?

Spoiler

I really hate the way gamers use the word casual

Do other types of handheld games eat into console sales? If anything, it seems like people would have a Wii and an Iphone instead of a Wii and a 3DS. I don't see someone wouldn't own and use both.

 

[Fredescu]

The audience Nintendo was going after for the Wii is very much the same audience that would be happy with an iPad / Angry Birds.

Nope. The Wii is for local multiplayer. App Store stuff is for quick play single player. The two easily co exist. It's the casual DS audience that the smartphones are eating into, and that the 3DS and NGP don't look like being aimed at picking up.

 

[dimb]

For now, and for at least the next 10 years, I forsee parents going in on a handheld before they do a smart phone for their 3-12 year old kid, all things considered (price especially).

For most parents, being able to be in contact with their child whenever needed is the main reason for getting a phone.

Pricing between handheld gaming devices and smartphones isn't even a very large gap, so I don't think that factors in as much anymore. If a parent can trust a kid with a 3DS they can trust with with a 3GS, the pricing of which can go down even further with a contract.

 

[m.i.s.]

I don't think that they pose any threat to consoles to be honest. Those iPhone games are appealing because they're largely made up of pick and play type games. And those are what many people argue handheld games should be. The fact that they're cheap and many people have access to them because they own an iPhone only make them that much more appealing in comparison to the PSP, 3DS or DS. Another factor is that people are always going to carry their phone around with them while that probably won't be the case for a traditional handheld system.

That's why I don't think that they're a threat to consoles. You generally buy a console for experiences that really can't be replicated on an iPhone.

Exactly.

The touchscreen functionality rumours for Nintendo's next home console would suggest that Nintendo are attempting to tie up portables with their home console in some way. Considering the limited success Nintendo has had in this area, I look on these rumours with some trepidation.

As regards their latest handheld, it also doesn't help that Nintendo have eliminated two distinct advantages with the 3DS that they have historically enjoyed. ie price (both hardware and software) and battery life. We'll almost certainly see a 3DS revision to address the latter but whether they're prepared to do anything about the former (particularly software), I don't really know.

It just shows how fast the industry is moving and constantly changing. At the height of the DS's success, many posters and observers were suggesting that handhelds would be the future of the dedicated videogame industry, now it appears that the opposite would appear to be the case.

 

[Ickman3400]

Had no idea it was that big already.

That's not that big of a deal as retail PC here might as well be completely dead outside of a couple games (wow, sims).

Now if it's bigger than DD that's really sad.

 

[mujun]

Spoiler

The thought of paying £40 for a handheld game makes me sick.

Haha, exactly what I was going to say. Gaming on the DS seems like such a rip off to me now.

 

[Boney]

Spoiler

The thought of paying £40 for a handheld game makes me sick.

I'd extend that sentiment towards console games as well.

That's my biggest problems in these type of discussions, people just compare ios and handhelds as time wasters, and put consoles in holy grails, instead of talking about the actual quality of games. Not talking about the usual "omg ios only has crap games", but that DS and PSP games most often than not, exceed console games in terms of design and originality.

I do agree that prices need to drop.

/rant

 

[Somnid]

It appears that app revenue didn't quite double even with the addition of the largest mobile operating system. Which either means Android doesn't mean shit or iOS growth is flat. The former seems the most likely.

 

[Prine]

Smartphones have the advantage as being devices central to people lives, inheriting the handheld market was just a matter of time. Next 5 years will be interesting.

 

[Tobor]

It appears that app revenue didn't quite double even with the addition of the largest mobile operating system. Which either means Android doesn't mean shit or iOS growth is flat. The former seems the most likely.

iOS app revenue more than doubled last year. You can figure it out from there.

http://www.bgr.com/2011/02/18/apple...0-nokias-ovi-store-revenue-ironically-up-719/

 

[jts]

iOS app revenue more than doubled last year. You can figure it out from there.

http://www.bgr.com/2011/02/18/apple...0-nokias-ovi-store-revenue-ironically-up-719/

Yup. Someone wants to piggy-back Android's name on iOS success as a gaming platform.

Well, just throw in WP7, Blackberry, Symbian and whatnot and instead of several irrelevant platforms and a relevant one, we'll have a "prospering mobile phone gaming market". Great success!

 

[Somnid]

iOS app revenue more than doubled last year. You can figure it out from there.

http://www.bgr.com/2011/02/18/apple...0-nokias-ovi-store-revenue-ironically-up-719/

This would mean game growth on iOS is significantly slower than overall app growth. Interesting.

 

[poppabk]

0.34 x 2.4 = $816million in 2010
0.19 x 2.7 = $513million in 2009

Games were 67% of app revenue in 2009 and only 45% in 2010. So games are becoming less important for iOS.

 

[SmokyDave]

0.34 x 2.4 = $816million in 2010
0.19 x 2.7 = $513million in 2009

Games were 67% of app revenue in 2009 and only 45% in 2010. So games are becoming less important for iOS.

Or non-games are becoming more important. What high profile non-games apps were released last year that might account for some of this? I can only really think of iMovie. I reckon that music creation apps (particularly the Korg stuff) have to be lucrative as well.

 

[poppabk]

Or non-games are becoming more important. What high profile non-games apps were released last year that might account for some of this? I can only really think of iMovie. I reckon that music creation apps (particularly the Korg stuff) have to be lucrative as well.

My guess is that the release of the iPad brought in a new customer base who are much less interested in games but who are interested in apps for recipes, writing documents etc etc.

 

[charlequin]

A $1 ios game would incur just a fraction of the development and publishing cost of Mario Kart: DS.

Well, right. iOS is a market that can be significantly more lucrative for small developers (because titles made by less than ten people can easily compete on a features-and-content basis with the other titles on the service and will sometimes go on to sell extremely well) but it currently scales up poorly to larger developers (because the model is hostile to higher prices and even with better returns per sale, developers would be hard-pressed to recoup on more ambitious projects.) Right now you see a lot of serious efforts at $1-6 from smaller devs (or small teams at big publishers) and then a lot of bargain-basement re-releases of content that already recouped at higher prices on other platforms.

How long before that starts happening for console titles? Its not just a Nintendo issue.

I don't agree with your apocalyptic implications (Bejeweled didn't kill higher-end gaming and neither will iOS) but this is a good point. Games on iOS are still in competition with console titles for consumer dollars as well as for attention -- even if something like Angry Birds is mostly getting played on phones while people are out, something like Infinity Blade on iPad is much more targeted at playing in the comfort of one's home.

I would love to see how many people smartphone have brought to gaming.

I'm going to guess "a whole heck of a lot." I would agree that pointing at "marketshare" is a really bad way to present the data when one set of products is finishing up a generational cycle while the other set are using an iterative release strategy and are part of a market that's exploding for non-gaming reasons; it'd be more helpful to look at annual revenue figures so we could see how much the pie is growing vs. being redivided.

I also wonder why these polls and articles didn't show up when cell phones first started having games on it?

Volume is way higher now.

Until smartphones are the only phones available, I don't see the 10 - 13 years olds having them.

Okay, so like five or six years.

 

[VitaminApple]

All of you are missing the big picture here. If a kid or teen was faced with the question of buying an iPod touch or a DS/3DS, they're going to go with the iPod touch.

Not only can it play games, it can surf the web, watch videos, video chat, email, instant messaging, and a whole lot more and it's cheaper than the 3DS.

Youre definition of a quality game is a case by case scenario and for most people Cut the Rope etc are sufficient.

 

[onQ123]

& this is why Sony is creating PlayStation Suite to share games with Phones , NGP & PS3


MS , has XNA to share games with XBLA & WP7


& the next Nintendo will be a hub to for your mobile gaming on it's ipad like controller? (just guess work)

 

[bob page]

I love how people still dismiss iOS gaming as fake/meaningless.

Oh, how they're missing out.

 

[onQ123]

the strangest part of this is that PSP didn't lose much of the pie from the year before & Android & iOS mostly ate into the DS pie.


I guess when you have a small piece of pie you don't have to worry too much about anyone asking for it lol

 

[dream]

I love how people still dismiss iOS gaming as fake/meaningless.

Oh, how they're missing out.

The neat thing about it is tablets and smartphones have out-Nintendoed Nintendo as far as the disruptive technology thing goes.

In the past year, I've probably enjoyed more iOS games than I have traditional video games. Maybe that says something about changing tastes but I'm guessing I'm not the only one who thinks a fun game is just a fun game.

 

[charlequin]

Is that really fair to say?

Absolutely. I'm not sure the chart would even look different if you took the Android numbers out.

Actually, they do. At least Apple won't let their product to "devaluate" by letting old hardware in the channel for long.

True for now (Apple won't be lowering the price floor on the iPT, just SKU-shuffling it on an annual basis) although we're eventually going to see feature creep effectively produce a price drop -- the iPod Nano already has some hand-me-down iPT features and it's likely (IMO) Apple will eventually find a way to shuffle a full iOS device down to $149 and have a higher-end iPT at $230-400.

Had no idea it was that big already.

In fairness, they're comparing to the PC retail market (which is rapidly shrinking) and not including the PC DD market (which is growing) or the PC supplemental income area (DLC and MMO sub/cash-shop fees) or, for that matter, the PC casual-games market.

 

[bob page]

The neat thing about it is tablets and smartphones have out-Nintendoed Nintendo as far as the disruptive technology thing goes.

In the past year, I've probably enjoyed more iOS games than I have traditional video games. Maybe that says something about changing tastes but I'm guessing I'm not the only one who thinks a fun game is just a fun game.

Same here. I don't think I've really touched my PSP/DS in the past year. As far as iOS goes, I'm not going to judge a game based on preconceptions and "standards" of how things "should" be. If it's fun, it's fun. And that's all that matters.

 

[krypt0nian]

It's because they share so many games.

It's the same reason we often see the 360, PS3, and PC grouped together.

Actually they share very few games. Most games by far on the iOS platform and the rare game makes the jump to Android.

 

[Houston3000]

This doesn't mean Apple/Android games are taking over PSP/DS game sales. It's market share.

Example:
PSP/DS could of had 100 game buying customers, then Apple/Android brought in 80 brand new game buying customers. PSP/DS still have 100 customers even though Apple/Android now own over 30% of the entire portable gaming market (80 out of the 180 total customers). Same can be applied to dollar amounts or whatever.

I own an Android and buy games sometimes... I don't own a DS but it has nothing to do with the fact that I own an Android, I never would of bought one anyways.

 

[poppabk]

Just using this data, plus the number of titles released for each system (ie divide revenue for 2009+2010/number of games)gives us -
Average iOS revenue per (non-free/lite) game available = $41k
Average DS revenue per game available = $500k - 1 million
This estimate doesn't mean a whole lot in real terms, but it does show the gulf between the systems.

 

[-viper-]

There is not a single cell phone game I enjoy. I have an iPhone 4 and they are all tacky. The 'motion controls' are absolutely awful.

 

[Truth101]

I don't feel like reading through another one of these threads, so if it has been stated before please forgive me.

Just because the chart shows a decrease in % of total revenue generated does not mean that the actual total revenue has decreased for Nintendo or Sony.

People fail to realize that growth has occurred in the portable market, or are just blatantly ignoring the fact.

So hypothetically Nintendo and Sony have a 70/30 share in the portable market, and then the market increased to 150, but Nintendo and Sony still maintain their 70/30 share of the market.

So that leaves a 47%/20%/33% split, so while the % in market revenue has decreased the actual revenue hasn't.

Also, I'm not saying that the revenue of the DS/PSP has not decreased recently, but that is more likely due to a winding down of the hand-held lifespan.

 

[krypt0nian]

There is not a single cell phone game I enjoy. I have an iPhone 4 and they are all tacky. The 'motion controls' are absolutely awful.

iPhone/iPad games have completely replaced my need for traditional handheld gaming for the last year.

 

[Evlar]

Just using this data, plus the number of titles released for each system (ie divide revenue for 2009+2010/number of games)gives us -
Average iOS revenue per (non-free/lite) game available = $41k
Average DS revenue per game available = $500k - 1 million
This estimate doesn't mean a whole lot in real terms, but it does show the gulf between the systems.

This should tell you what kind of development effort each platform can support.

 

[dream]

I can't disagree with all the talk about how the market is growing.

Something to consider though...we're on the verge of a new generation of handhelds and there's a very real possibility some of those existing DS and PSP owners will be upgrading to something other than a 3DS or a PSP2.

 

[SmokyDave]

True for now (Apple won't be lowering the price floor on the iPT, just SKU-shuffling it on an annual basis) although we're eventually going to see feature creep effectively produce a price drop -- the iPod Nano already has some hand-me-down iPT features and it's likely (IMO) Apple will eventually find a way to shuffle a full iOS device down to $149 and have a higher-end iPT at $230-400.

On this note, I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing Android powered, iPod Touch-esque devices. Capable of media playback, Internet & Email (wi-fi) & running apps but without the 'phone' component. They could be priced in an extremely predatory manner, I'd imagine.

 

[dream]

This should tell you what kind of development effort each platform can support.

Yeah, but this is still a platform in its infancy.

Xbox Live Arcade games started out cheap and simple too. Once gamers warmed up to the idea of buying games digitally, we started getting stuff like Shadow Complex, Super Meat Boy, and Splosion Man and releasing on XBLA is now every bit as viable as shipping a retail game.

 

[bob page]

Square-Enix releases like Chaos Rings and FF3 have had really good sales despite their $15 price tag, so I'm sure people realize that some games are, indeed, worth the premium. Other games, like Sword & Sworcery, could have easily sold for $10+ and done just as well. But at its price of $5, you'd be hardpressed to find a game with its "development effort" anywhere else.

 

[Quadrangulum]

Ever spent much time using Android or iOS? There's a reason people are willing to pay.

Edit: consecutive post, sorry.

I'm sure there is and I don't mean to sound as if I am somehow above the fray. It's just that as a person that fashions himself as technologically current, not understanding and not experiencing the whole smartphone explosion is kind of overwhelming.

Perhaps it's one of those things that you can't live without only after having been inducted but from my outsider standpoint, it's all rather perplexing. If I had a smartphone plan with all the so-called essential bells and whistles, it would be far more costly than all my utilities combined or match my expenditure on high speed internet plus electricity.

The ideal setup these days would be to have a portable 3G device and use a VOIP service for voice. Your effective bill would be as low as a dumbphone but you'd get the functionality of a smartphone. The problem is that most providers have minimum monthly bill commitments to get the subsidized contract.

Thanks. I didn't even know this was a possibility. I'll see if it's doable when my contract period ends.

 

[FlyingTeacup]

i don't have the data, but is the size of the two 'pies' the same? It could well mean that ios/android grows the total handheld gaming market.

 

[Utako]

I've become quite out of touch with the mainstream. I can't tolerate the wireless data and texting fees so I've never bothered with a smartphone. The pervasiveness of all this extra functionality just astounds me.

You said "extra" like data and texting aren't necessary, integral, or even useful. You aren't out of touch with the mainstream, you're out of touch with the technology's capability to impact your own life.

Remember when Nintendo said they were not competing with Apple, good times.

And Sony's not competing with Nintendo! When did anyone decide that competition is only a two-way road? You may not be competing with me, but I'm sure as hell competing with you!

 

[poppabk]

i don't have the data, but is the size of the two 'pies' the same? It could well mean that ios/android grows the total handheld gaming market.

It says in the article, 2009 2.7 billion, 2010 2.4 billion.