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[eXite]

What about selling "your" games along with it?

or better

Will I be able to buy an used Xbox One?

 

[Diggeh]

Here's a SwapNote comic I made to celebrate the news.

Spoiler

I can't believe you actually play as the Call of Duty Dog. The jokes write themselves, folks!

 

[Nicktals]

umm, it does raise an interesting question. I buy 15 XBone games. They are tied to my console and my account. i decide to sell my XBone. i delete all accounts. The games are still tied to the system, right? And anyone who ever owns that system has access to the games, right? What happens if the system is sold 15 times?

Sorry to quote myself, but either there's a HUGE exploit waiting to happen, or you could find yourself in a situation where you can't play your own games on your own device, whether or not you own the disc.

 

[eXite]

Here's a SwapNote comic I made to celebrate the news.

Spoiler

I can't believe you actually play as the Call of Duty Dog. The jokes write themselves, folks!

Wouldn't be surprised, if there is a QTE event "licking your own balls".

 

[Sobriquet]

The "only loan to one friend" policy really gets to me but ultimately it's probably not enough to not buy the system.

Just to clarify, you can't loan games to friends at all.

 

[idlewild_]

Sorry to quote myself, but either there's a HUGE exploit waiting to happen, or you could find yourself in a situation where you can't play your own games on your own device, whether or not you own the disc.

Looking at their policies as they are laid out, you could technically play them as you would on any non-base X1 system with the 1hr DRM check. Kind of brings up the question of what happens if your system fails or you upgrade to a newer model, ala X1 Slim (slim bone?)

I'm sure they will have to have some form of policy in place to shift over your content to a new base system as the number of people who upgrade is probably non-trivial.

 

[Nicktals]

Well, my thread was immediately closed...i thought it was stated that anyone on your console could play your games? Doesn't this mean they are tied to your system?

EDIT: If someone (preferably a mod) can inform why this was closed i would greatly appreciate it so that I could avoid making the mistake in the future.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=580787

 

[Roland1979]

What about selling "your" games along with it?

Probably not. Most likely tied to system but tag/id as well. At least that's my guess.
Otherwise when you sell the system people also get your games. That's "loosing" money in the eyes of MS.

 

[Roland1979]

Just to clarify, you can't loan games to friends at all.

That's correct. Only gift. And some where wandering about re-gifting... yeah... you can forget that now can you? Won't happen.

 

[Bgamer90]

I don't understand why they don't just allow people to bypass the 24 hr check with an old-fashioned disc verification. Seems like that would be the simplest solution if they wanted to keep DRM and it would allow people to play offline just like they do currently.

Yeah, this is the biggest thing I don't get at all. Put unique codes on each disc.

Seems like it would be really simple.

 

[quest]

umm, it does raise an interesting question. I buy 15 XBone games. They are tied to my console and my account. i decide to sell my XBone. i delete all accounts. The games are still tied to the system, right? And anyone who ever owns that system has access to the games, right? What happens if the system is sold 15 times?

They are tied to your tag/account but you have a home console. If you sell it the only way to sell games with it would be to give up your tag/account with the system. So there is no loophole to take advantage of.

 

[idlewild_]

They are tied to your tag/account but you have a home console. If you sell it the only way to sell games with it would be to give up your tag/account with the system. So there is no loophole to take advantage of.

That doesn't really jive with this bullet point:

Share access to your games with everyone inside your home: Your friends and family, your guests and acquaintances get unlimited access to all of your games. Anyone can play your games on your console--regardless of whether you are logged in or their relationship to you.

Seems that you can play any game that's installed on the base machine no matter who is logged in at the time. An obvious limitation on this being the number of games you can have installed at any given time. If you clear space to install a new game, you would permanently lose access to one of those older games that you don't actually own but was installed on the system by the previous owner.

 

[Roland1979]

Yeah, this is the biggest thing I don't get at all. Put unique codes on each disc.

Seems like it would be really simple.

I think because they are to easy too hack/bypass. When you do a search for "keygen" no doubt you get a bazillian results. But this will get hacked as well, it's just harder.
And once every 24/h is harsh. If it would be once every 2 weeks that would be easier to swallow no doubt (though still not ideal).

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

This all sounds absolutely terrible.

 

[Nicktals]

They are tied to your tag/account but you have a home console. If you sell it the only way to sell games with it would be to give up your tag/account with the system. So there is no loophole to take advantage of.

so, what does "home console" even mean? The games aren't in any way tied to the console? I thought that I, Nicktals, could buy a game, and anyone who came to play on my console could, under their account. That isn't correct? I have to use one of my 10 "family and friends allowed" allowances for a friend to play a game on my console under his gamertag? or it simply isn't possible?

EDIT:

That doesn't really jive with this bullet point:



Seems that you can play any game that's installed on the base machine no matter who is logged in at the time. An obvious limitation on this being the number of games you can have installed at any given time. If you clear space to install a new game, you would permanently lose access to one of those older games that you don't actually own but was installed on the system by the previous owner.

Thanks, I thought I remembered reading this.

Raises the question why my thread was so hastily locked.

 

[Roland1979]

That doesn't really jive with this bullet point:



Seems that you can play any game that's installed on the base machine no matter who is logged in at the time. An obvious limitation on this being the number of games you can have installed at any given time. If you clear space to install a new game, you would permanently lose access to one of those older games that you don't actually own but was installed on the system by the previous owner.

They will still have thought of something. IP Adress bound, mandatory one time facial recognition of your guests, etc. We don't know what, but it will be there.

 

[Agkel]

Made this for another thread but thought it was relevant to this one:


Had fun doing this one The picture is huge because I forgot to resize, sorry.

 

[Roland1979]

That's pretty funny but it's also way too big lol. They should make the system self-destruct. Or make you cut a red or blue wire

Spoiler

(always red)

once every 24/h.

 

[eXite]

That's why I've asked this hilarious question! No one did and MS is glad about it.

Since someone came up with disc verification or tagged discs, I wonder:

- I buy a Xbone and CoD: Ghosts
- I sell the console and the game
- someone buys my Xbone and buys another copy of Cod: Ghosts


Could there be issues with DRM? If you have no answers ,Microsoft still has more to clarify!

 

[Nicktals]

That's why I've asked this hilarious question! No one did and MS is glad about it.

Since someone came up with disc verification or tagged discs, I wonder:

- I buy a Xbone and CoD: Ghosts
- I sell the console and the game
- someone buys my Xbone and buys another copy of Cod: Ghosts


Could there be issues with DRM? If you have no answers Microsoft still has more to clarify!

Who cares? If the game is actually tied to the console, as has been claimed, then only ONE person should ever buy an XB1. They proceed to buy every game released. They disassociate their account and sell the box, containing all games. They then buy a new XB1, and reclaim their games. They repeat this process ad infinitum.

Games can not truly be tied to your account and your home console, because of that. I wonder how MS plans to combat it.

I would also love a response as to why my thread was locked so hastily! Thanks mods! http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=580787

 

[Loakum]

Microsoft, if you're reading this: I purchased my game..that's all the permission I need! How you gonna charge a extra fee, if I want to loan my game, that I paid for, to family and friends? Ya'll f*cked up, on this one.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

That doesn't really jive with this bullet point:



Seems that you can play any game that's installed on the base machine no matter who is logged in at the time. An obvious limitation on this being the number of games you can have installed at any given time. If you clear space to install a new game, you would permanently lose access to one of those older games that you don't actually own but was installed on the system by the previous owner.

The way the 360 and PS3 works is, when there is a valid account that owns the game on the console, anyone can play any game installed on it. However, if you delete the account which owns the game, that content then becomes locked out. So, if you sell your 360 or PS3 for example, you would have to leave your account on it if you wanted the next buyer to be able to access the digital content on the hard drive. Obviously this doesn't apply to physical games you own.

It's not hard to guess the Xbone will work the same way, except now ALL the content is tied to your account, whereas with the 360 and PS3 you just include the game discs with the console when you sell it and the buyer just puts the game in and plays it.

So, the problem with Xbone becomes, if you sell the console and all the games on it, do you have to go in your account and gift all the games on your account manually to the buyer, and therefore you need to arrange for the buyer to be in your Friends list for 30 days before the sale of your Xbone is completed? LOL

Furthermore, since games can only be gifted ONCE, does this mean the person who buys the Xbone from you and all your games with it will never be able to pass those games on to someone else, by trading them in or giving them away? LOL

 

[Roland1979]

They disassociate their account and sell the box, containing all games. They then buy a new XB1, and reclaim their games. They repeat this process ad infinitum.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=580787

Accept it won't have any games then since it's also tied to your tag/id.
So you would sell a empty Xbone.

 

[Nicktals]

Accept it won't have any games then since it's also tied to your tag/id.
So you would sell a empty Xbone.

So you mean it's ONLY tied to my tag, and not at all to my console.

EDIT: If my console has to have my tag associated with it, then the games aren't tied to my console in any way. They are tied to my tag. If I sell my old XBone to my brother, and buy a new one, but I want all the games and all the same people to play on them, what do I do?

 

[TAJ]

Yeah, this is the biggest thing I don't get at all. Put unique codes on each disc.

Seems like it would be really simple.

That would make retail copies clearly better than downloads. MS would rather sell you a download because all the money that would have gone towards retailers' cuts, BOM, shipping and warehousing goes in their pocket instead.
It would also function as a BOGO special. (Transfer license to someone else and keep the disc.)

 

[Shady859]

As if my Microsoft boner could get any softer.... Just seeing all this for the first time as guess what, i've been without proper internet for over a week.

I've been a loyal Xbox lead platform guy since Halo 2 was my 1st big release... I've still owned all other consoles (not a Wii U yet) but Xbox has been my go to except for exclusives. Been moving and like I mentioned above no internet besides iPhone. So as I was hooking up the 360 to blow off some moving steam the other day it hit me. No internet = no play untill I check in with big brother? This just rubs me hella wrong on top of all the other crap of used/reselling/KINECT etc etc etc

Playstation is going to rape you when people realize all this crap..... These 15 exclusives better be golden. I could care less about Gears and Halo so that's 2 off the list already. Sony, looks like i'm coming back home I want a game console.

 

[WanderingWind]

That would make retail copies clearly better than downloads. MS would rather sell you a download because all the money that would have gone towards retailers' cuts, BOM, shipping and warehousing goes in their pocket instead.
It would also function as a BOGO special. (Transfer license to someone else and keep the disc.)

You underestimate the laziness of the consumer. People would definitely download games to avoid punching in 20 character codes. Hell, that was a big marketing thing for Steam back after the initial launch with HL2.

 

[TAJ]

So you mean it's ONLY tied to my tag, and not at all to my console.

EDIT: If my console has to have my tag associated with it, then the games aren't tied to my console in any way. They are tied to my console. If I sell my old XBone to my brother, and buy a new one, but I want all the games and all the same people to play on them, what do I do?

With the current system, it is tied to the console as well. The difference is that the console the content is tied to can use use it offline indefinitely. A console that just has your tag has to be always- on.
EDIT: With the new system the difference is check-ins every 24 hours vs every 1 hour.

 

[Nicktals]

With the current system, it is tied to the console as well. The difference is that the console the content is tied to can use use it offline indefinitely. A console that just has your tag has to be always- on.

Umm, I don't think that's true. i thought online checks have to happen every day?

 

[Roland1979]

So you mean it's ONLY tied to my tag, and not at all to my console.

EDIT: If my console has to have my tag associated with it, then the games aren't tied to my console in any way. They are tied to my console. If I sell my old XBone to my brother, and buy a new one, but I want all the games and all the same people to play on them, what do I do?

My guess is, which make most sense, it's tied to both. But not independently. So without tag you cannot sell the games on it (other then maybe those approved retailers, but not your friend, etc).
And what you would do? I have absolutely NO IDEA. Good thing MS is really clear about this thing (irony).

 

[TAJ]

Umm, I don't think that's true. i thought online checks have to happen every day?

By current system, I meant the 360 DRM system. I added how things change on Xbone just now.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Umm, I don't think that's true. i thought online checks have to happen every day?

On your system that has the games installed on the hard drive, it needs to check-in once every 24 hours. Accessing your content on another Xbox One with you signed in, it needs to check-in once every hour.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

You underestimate the laziness of the consumer. People would definitely download games to avoid punching in 20 character codes. Hell, that was a big marketing thing for Steam back after the initial launch with HL2.

I just downloaded 3 items on my PS3 that are free for Plus members, I had to punch in my password for each one. Not a big deal but it still feels clunky and not very efficient. Perhaps the Xbox One will simply know who you are by looking at you, auto sign in and instant transactions.

 

[Nicktals]

My guess is, which make most sense, it's tied to both. But not independently. So without tag you cannot sell the games on it (other then maybe those approved retailers, but not your friend, etc).
And what you would do? I have absolutely NO IDEA. Good thing MS is really clear about this thing (irony).

Seriously...There are still so many unanswered questions, and with a system trying to be what it is, there is GUARANTEED to be an unnoticed loophole, or an unnoticed overstep of consumer rights. (as in, you can't play your games anymore.)

 

[tekumseh]

Forgive me if this has already been posited and I've missed it.

I would be inclined to think that the right of first sale laws would cover physical disc purchases with regard to being able to sell them, etc. Having said that, do you suppose it's possible that the way around this is by NOT including the entire composition of a game completely on the discs sold in stores, and then utilizing the cloud mechanism to fill in the missing gaps in the software package, thereby not actually giving you the full game at retail, but only a large portion of it?

 

[outsida]

My guess is, which make most sense, it's tied to both. But not independently. So without tag you cannot sell the games on it (other then maybe those approved retailers, but not your friend, etc).
And what you would do? I have absolutely NO IDEA. Good thing MS is really clear about this thing (irony).

Seriously...There are still so many unanswered questions, and with a system trying to be what it is, there is GUARANTEED to be an unnoticed loophole, or an unnoticed overstep of consumer rights. (as in, you can't play your games anymore.)

It's really not that confusing. It sounds as if it works exactly the way XBLA games work now. For instance my daughter likes to play xbox live arcade games on the xbox in the living room. If it's the console that the game was bought on she only needs to log into her account and she has access to all of the XBLA games on the hard drive. If she tries to play a game on the xbox I have in my bedroom her profile only has access to the trial versions of those games. Otherwise it needs to be played on the profile that purchased the games and is also signed in to XBL. Sounds like the XB1 DRM is just a modification of that.

 

[NoirVisage]

Forgive me if this has already been posited and I've missed it.

I would be inclined to think that the right of first sale laws would cover physical disc purchases with regard to being able to sell them, etc. Having said that, do you suppose it's possible that the way around this is by NOT including the entire composition of a game completely on the discs sold in stores, and then utilizing the cloud mechanism to fill in the missing gaps in the software package, thereby not actually giving you the full game at retail, but only a large portion of it?

Wow..wouldn't put it past them.

 

[Nicktals]

It's really not that confusing. It sounds as if it works exactly the way XBLA games work now. For instance my daughter likes to play xbox live arcade games on the xbox in the living room. If it's the console that the game was bought on she only needs to log into her account and she has access to all of the XBLA games on the hard drive. If she tries to play a game on the xbox I have in my bedroom her profile only has access to the trial versions of those games. Otherwise it needs to be played on the profile that purchased the games and is also signed in to XBL. Sounds like the XB1 DRM is just a modification of that.

Thank you, I actually didn't know how any of that worked. So what happens if you sell the main XBox? Are those games available to whoever buys them, or are they locked?

EDIT: May as well again ask for clarification on why my thread was locked...Please mods, just hoping to learn how to post a little better.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=580787

 

[MaulerX]

It's really not that confusing. It sounds as if it works exactly the way XBLA games work now. For instance my daughter likes to play xbox live arcade games on the xbox in the living room. If it's the console that the game was bought on she only needs to log into her account and she has access to all of the XBLA games on the hard drive. If she tries to play a game on the xbox I have in my bedroom her profile only has access to the trial versions of those games. Otherwise it needs to be played on the profile that purchased the games and is also signed in to XBL. Sounds like the XB1 DRM is just a modification of that.

Exactly. The way it is now, you can actually play the same game on two Xbox's with two different accounts. Someone can play a game on the original Xbox the game was purchased from with their account, and you can play the same purchased game on a different Xbox provided you are logged in to the original account the game was purchased with.

 

[Nicktals]

Exactly. The way it is now, you can actually play the same game on two Xbox's with two different accounts. Someone can play a game on the original Xbox the game was purchased from with their account, and you can play the same purchased game on a different Xbox provided you are logged in to the original account the game was purchased with.

soooo, even if I delete all my info from the original box, you can still play the games i bought?

 

[CatPee]

I just downloaded 3 items on my PS3 that are free for Plus members, I had to punch in my password for each one. Not a big deal but it still feels clunky and not very efficient. Perhaps the Xbox One will simply know who you are by looking at you, auto sign in and instant transactions.

That's actually a setting. You can skip having to enter a password for each transaction by disabling it.

 

[outsida]

Thank you, I actually didn't know how any of that worked. So what happens if you sell the main XBox? Are those games available to whoever buys them, or are they locked?

I would assume if you leave the games on that console along with the GT they are associated with the new owner would be able to play them (as long as they can log on to XBL once every 24 hours lol). If you want to sell the system it seems you'll just need to wipe the original/owner gamertag and the games and all is good.

I'm pretty sure it won't be that easy to circumvent as MS seems to have all of their draconian DRM measure well thought out.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I just downloaded 3 items on my PS3 that are free for Plus members, I had to punch in my password for each one. Not a big deal but it still feels clunky and not very efficient.

What are you talking about? You dont have to enter your password to download stuff off Plus everytime.

 

[MaulerX]

soooo, even if I delete all my info from the original box, you can still play the games i bought?

There is a license transfer tool that used to be web only but they have actually integrated into the settings of the 360. If you sell your Xbox then you wipe the HDD. On your new Xbox you just transfer the licenses using the tool and your new Xbox would act as your old Xbox. Very easy actually.

 

[Nicktals]

There is a license transfer tool that used to be web only but they have actually integrated into the settings of the 360. If you sell your Xbox then you wipe the HDD. On your new Xbox you just transfer the licenses using the tool and your new Xbox would act as your old Xbox. Very easy actually.

I guess I'm still not clear...why could you both play at the same time, under different GTs? Was it because your home box was associated with your GT? So if you had switched the home GT of your home box to a friends GT, you and your son would not be able to play the same game at the same time?

 

[MaulerX]

I guess I'm still not clear...why could you both play at the same time, under different GTs? Was it because your home box was associated with your GT? So if you had switched the home GT of your home box to a friends GT, you and your son would not be able to play the same game at the same time?

Ok... The way it is now, the digital game is tied to your Gamer Tag AND the console it was downloaded to. So, on said console, ANYONE can play the game, with any Gamer Tag, offline or online. So, your kid, friend etc... can play that game on that console because the game is not only tied to your Gamer Tag, it's also tied to that console.

While that game is being played on THAT console, you can log in to any other Xbox, download the game, and play it by virtue of it being tied to your Gamer Tag. But you have to be logged in at all times. I've done this many times. It works.

 

[eXite]

Well, well it creates even more confusing to sell a Xbone console.

I'll bet my ass , that MS will update their DRM "feature list", saying:

Used Microsoft Xbox One consoles can only be sold to/ bought from participating partners.
( GameStop).

The same System !

They've don fucked it up!

 

[Magnific0giganticus]

nvm too big

 

[WanderingWind]

I just downloaded 3 items on my PS3 that are free for Plus members, I had to punch in my password for each one. Not a big deal but it still feels clunky and not very efficient. Perhaps the Xbox One will simply know who you are by looking at you, auto sign in and instant transactions.

And how many games were downloaded on Steam in the past hour versus PSN?

 

[Polk]

Thank you, I actually didn't know how any of that worked. So what happens if you sell the main XBox? Are those games available to whoever buys them, or are they locked?,

Pn 360 you can transfer license to new console every 12 months.
On X1 I think you just set different console as 'primary' one.

 

[ruttyboy]

Any chance someone with da gif skillz can 'bishify' this?

"I don't need a gun, I've got a bish"