shinra-bansho
Member
But a threat to portables is a threat to Nintendo first and foremost.
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Nintendo shares plunge 6% by Monday close after trading as low as -18%
- Thread starter GHG
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Calamari41
41 > 38
The other alternative is to put your heart and soul into the system that you're trying to sell, like Sony is doing with the PS4. Put out something that people will want to buy. I agree though that if they aren't up to that task, then they might as well go software (or even handheld) only.
Prince Vultan
Banned
Bu bu but "Nintendo is the bigger company then Sony"!
lol
lol
Meccanical
Member
I don't know what I expected but that was the best thing that it could have been.
vagabondarts
Member
Their legacy software (NES, GBA, SNES, N64, maybe even GCN) should be available from any device anywhere in the world.
Login, play the game. Cloud save states, online multiplayer for select games.
This should be an app that runs on devices and consoles that people log into.
Login, play the game. Cloud save states, online multiplayer for select games.
This should be an app that runs on devices and consoles that people log into.
Man, you were waiting for this, weren't ya?
Sons Of Anarchy
Banned
License those IPs out Nintendo
Captain Smoker
Member
Even with Nintendos current shares plunge, Sonys market capitalization isn't (that) far away.
Sony: 1.83T Yen
Nintendo: 1.76T Yen
Nicktendo86
Member
Great post Captain Smoker, I really don't think the answer is just pitpput Mario on phones and watch money coming in as you say, the actual data is very inconclusive. I think the answer is to ride out the wiiu, really learn lessons and come back fighting next time. Unless they can find a way to.make the mobile model really work it is jus not worth it IMO.
Not to mention the fact that Sony's value is for their entire company inc. laptops, TVs, ovens etc. and Nintendo's is just gaming.
infiniteloop
Member
C'mon iOS Virtual Console with MFi Nintendo Pro Controller!
So many people waiting the right occasions to knack on Nintendo, this days. :sese:
Come on, you could have ignored one negative thread, don't let these things get you. Vita should have made you stronger, I know Wii U made me. lol
iamshadowlark
Banned
It's crazy how nintendos stock rose that fast off what was essentially non news. Especially when you consider that the writing was on the wall for a mediocre FY.
That's only the percieved market value though, based on projected return of investments more than anything else. It's not really representival of the size if either of those companies.
shinra-bansho
Member
I assumed they meant move resources onto a potential new platform, not can what's currently in development - some of which likely won't see the light of day anyway until 2015.
That really seems completely untenable. You really think that Nintendo can essentially be absent of any real position in the console space for half a decade (2017) or longer (2018) and still remain a viable competitor in that space?
You asked before who would buy a system for which the last had a successor launch 3 years later.
I'd ask, who in 2018 would buy a system for which the predecessor was for the last 6 years that thing that no one wanted, that no one made games for, that barely had any market presence and was relegated to the back of the store or pulled from shelves completely in many locations.
Their current woes can probably in some small part be attributed to letting the Wii fade into irrelevance long before launching a successor. The Wii U was basically irrelevant 6 months ago, so I can't really fathom how waiting another 5 years to launch a successor is a good idea.
H_Prestige
Banned
They'd have to port over each title to play with touch controls. If they can't even get simple ROM dumps on the VC, then forget this ever happening.
And it would be pointless even if they could. Anyone with an android device or a computer can already run NES/SNES ROMs. Why would people pay?
7DollarHagane
Banned
Lol sorry never happening.
Fixed.
Joking aside, how do you see their launching schedule for the next handheld and console?
Edit: do you think they will go on the route of having losses in 2014 and 2015 (R&D costs, personnel costs, sunk costs for existing Wii U projects, inevitable drop in 3ds sales, Pokemon and MH4 already behind etc) for a (double) launch in 2015 that guarantees nothing?
Buddha Beam
Banned
The same thing happened to Sega when they went third party. Almost everything they released for nearly a decade was pretty bad. You're talking about taking the entire development team of all of Nintendo and putting them on radically different hardware that they have no control over and little experience in asking for assistance. They won't have those connections to Sony or MS in the beginning and it would take years to establish a good working relationship that speeds things along quickly. It's just the way these huge companies work. Everything is very bureaucratized and getting those bureaucracies on the same page isn't as easy as "here's some dev kits, get to it!"
gamergirly
Member
Minus the PS4, how is Sony's stock going to look after earnings?
Didn't cross my mind, but you're right and they have the capital to do it.
H_Prestige
Banned
PS4 and XB1 are radically different from Wii U? They're the same exact kind of device, just better.
To be a company in such dire straights as Nintendo, you couldn't ask for a better get out of jail free card.
If some small indies can easily make games for those platforms, I'm sure Nintendo could find a way. You're making it sound way more complicated than it actually is.
MDSLKTR
Member
This is amazing and it should be a sticky.
Nintendo aren't in dire straits just yet. Still a long, long, way to go before that card has to be played. Sure, the Wii U is struggling, but Nintendo's woes are far from dire.
dcx4610
Member
I'd love to see Nintendo try to compete with the PS4 and XBO but honestly feel it's too much to ask of them at this point. Before they could even compete, they'd have to make many, many changes and it just doesn't seem possible.
1. Build hardware more powerful than Sony or Microsoft.
Nintendo has never had a history of seeking out cutting edge hardware. They would need a R&D team that had the money and knowledge to find the parts and builder a better system than Sony or Microsoft.
2. Rebuild their image.
Partially thanks to Sega, Nintendo was established as the kiddy brand way back on the SNES and that image has stuck with them ever since. They attempted to change that image with the Ultra 64 and having Killer Instinct as their launch title but the development was changed the last minute and the cycle repeated itself. With the Wii, Nintendo firmly established themselves as the brand for kids, families and casuals while virtually abandoning the core gamer. Nintendo would have to somehow convince the core gamer that they care about them first and foremost and will worry about the other demographics after.
3. Rebuild their image with 3rd parties.
This is the major one and likely the toughest. Nintendo had every developer and publisher under the sun on the NES and SNES. Starting with the N64, they made the fatal mistake of sticking with cartridges as prices rose and Sony entered the market. Sony allowed developers to make games for their system far cheaper and didn't charge exuberant licensing fees like Nintendo. The CD format also allowed for a more cinematic experience due to FMV. Nintendo conceded with the Gamecube but went with a smaller, proprietary format while the PS2 went DVD. It was poor attempt at trying to appease 3rd parties as they still had same limitations and Nintendo starting charging higher licensing fees than any point in history.
With the Wii, the console was established as a low powered system for families. Some 3rd parties came back but with limited development. They put together small teams to make lesser versions or spinoff versions of their bigger counterparts. Nintendo would have to convince developers that not only that their system would have the horsepower to run the AAA games but that their audience would actually buy them. That's a battle in itself.
I just don't know if Nintendo can come back from this. It seems they have painted themselves in a corner. At this point it's almost like they had to be the gimmick/alternate system to survive today's market. At this point, I think they should either go hybrid console or go exclusively handheld while also going 3rd party. Since hardware is typically a break-even situation for them, it doesn't really matter if you buy their games on their own handheld or enough device. It's software that makes them money.
1. Build hardware more powerful than Sony or Microsoft.
Nintendo has never had a history of seeking out cutting edge hardware. They would need a R&D team that had the money and knowledge to find the parts and builder a better system than Sony or Microsoft.
2. Rebuild their image.
Partially thanks to Sega, Nintendo was established as the kiddy brand way back on the SNES and that image has stuck with them ever since. They attempted to change that image with the Ultra 64 and having Killer Instinct as their launch title but the development was changed the last minute and the cycle repeated itself. With the Wii, Nintendo firmly established themselves as the brand for kids, families and casuals while virtually abandoning the core gamer. Nintendo would have to somehow convince the core gamer that they care about them first and foremost and will worry about the other demographics after.
3. Rebuild their image with 3rd parties.
This is the major one and likely the toughest. Nintendo had every developer and publisher under the sun on the NES and SNES. Starting with the N64, they made the fatal mistake of sticking with cartridges as prices rose and Sony entered the market. Sony allowed developers to make games for their system far cheaper and didn't charge exuberant licensing fees like Nintendo. The CD format also allowed for a more cinematic experience due to FMV. Nintendo conceded with the Gamecube but went with a smaller, proprietary format while the PS2 went DVD. It was poor attempt at trying to appease 3rd parties as they still had same limitations and Nintendo starting charging higher licensing fees than any point in history.
With the Wii, the console was established as a low powered system for families. Some 3rd parties came back but with limited development. They put together small teams to make lesser versions or spinoff versions of their bigger counterparts. Nintendo would have to convince developers that not only that their system would have the horsepower to run the AAA games but that their audience would actually buy them. That's a battle in itself.
I just don't know if Nintendo can come back from this. It seems they have painted themselves in a corner. At this point it's almost like they had to be the gimmick/alternate system to survive today's market. At this point, I think they should either go hybrid console or go exclusively handheld while also going 3rd party. Since hardware is typically a break-even situation for them, it doesn't really matter if you buy their games on their own handheld or enough device. It's software that makes them money.
shinra-bansho
Member
The GameCube is really no comparison, you're well aware. I think the Wii U is probably tracking to sell something like 13-16M units globally; that may even be a tad optimistic at this stage.
Regarding your question, I don't really know. Although, thankfully it's not my problem to solve.
I could say simply don't release both a handheld and a console; I don't think they really have the resources to launch and support both, and I also don't think the situation you outlined is a practical one. And in such scenario I would probably suggest becoming a handheld only company.
But the problem with that scenario is that they'd be the dominant (and really only) fish in the pond. But the pond is progressively shrinking in Western markets.
I don't personally really like the idea of a hybrid - as it's essentially just a more powerful handheld with TV out - but I can't see much else they could do and it at least maintains some semblance of presence in the home console market. Or at least building both on a similar architectural basis for dual development of titles. Then they could consolidate their software development onto said hybrid platform/architecture, so they'd have regular releases even in the absence of third parties to pad the software schedule.
Although, this of course comes with the downside of potentially halving software revenue.
The Power Of Snap
Member
If they don't change, it's gonna be a long and slow death just like blackberry.
vagabondarts
Member
Why would anyone pay now for VC titles then?
I know they won't /can't do it but they should. It would be a Nintendo version of netflix.
I would buy it.
Entryhazard
Banned
Actually they shown Kirby's Return to DreamLand in the Financial Results Briefing on January 28, 2011
So we are not disagreeing that much, if you read my post. I just think in addition that they will have once more a shot at the console market, but not before they are ready and they have the handheld insured. And I think they might still make software profitable on Wii U if they find the right pricing model.
Corronchilejano
Member
Mysterious
Banned
Don't forget insurance, Hollywood, music publishing, the entire Michael Jackson and The Beatles catalogue, all electronics, and of course, online and computer entertainment.
BoboBrazil
Member
Yep. Nintendo typically had the more powerful system in most ways despite stupid choice of media decisions like cartridges or that crap they used in GameCube. It wasn't until iwata they decided to say fuck it and cheap out.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
One of the issues is see with the hybrid console is that Nintendo love to sell two entries of their main franchises per gen, one n handheld and one on console. I do not believe that the increase in installed base from separate devices will be large enough to make up for losing half of their major game releases.
While the hybrid console is a nice idea, the practicalities have yet to be worked out. I do not feel Nintendo have the resources or approach to make it work without a significant downsizing of their first party output or suffering from sequelitis like Sony and MS.
While the hybrid console is a nice idea, the practicalities have yet to be worked out. I do not feel Nintendo have the resources or approach to make it work without a significant downsizing of their first party output or suffering from sequelitis like Sony and MS.
I wonder if this will mean Nintendo is going to moneyhat 3rd party games and franchises for exclusivity on Wii U.
Releasing in 2014 with DKC:TF, FE X SMT, Yarn Yoshi, Smash Bros 4, MK8, Bayonetta 2, X alongside exclusive 3rd party titles they paid for that won't be on another system.
I think them getting exclusive AAA games like COD (with no other COD coming to another system in 2014), Bioshock, Borderlands, and Assassin's Creed could pump up the Wii U sales. Completely exclusive, not coming to another system, Bayonetta 2 kind of deal.
Either that or revive some old 3rd party franchises. Viewtiful Joe 3, Shenmue 3,
Releasing in 2014 with DKC:TF, FE X SMT, Yarn Yoshi, Smash Bros 4, MK8, Bayonetta 2, X alongside exclusive 3rd party titles they paid for that won't be on another system.
I think them getting exclusive AAA games like COD (with no other COD coming to another system in 2014), Bioshock, Borderlands, and Assassin's Creed could pump up the Wii U sales. Completely exclusive, not coming to another system, Bayonetta 2 kind of deal.
Either that or revive some old 3rd party franchises. Viewtiful Joe 3, Shenmue 3,
somehow buy back Banjo-Kazooie franchise and make a 3rd game
In some ways I think their handheld and home software have already converged to enough of an extent to be cannibalising each other.
I think NSMB on Wii U lacked impact at least partially because the kids had their pick of two other Mario games in the recent past preceding it (on 3DS).
Personally I'm finding a large swathe of my Nintendo related appetite being satisfied by 3DS, so maybe I'm being biased by that.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
In an attempt to be objective here, I honestly think Pokemon on mobile would make a lot of money, and be much easier to accomplish and less offensive than Mario on there.
Captain Smoker
Member
I think another problem with the hybrid is that the hardware capability (raw power) is giong to fall behind even more compared to Next Gen Sony/MS, because it "also" needs to be a handheld in the end.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
COD brings in over $1bn per year for Activision in direct revenue and even more in DLC and subscriptions. Nintendo would be looking at spending over $600m for just one exclusive game. The very idea that Nintendo would spend that money or that Activision would trash their brand in that way is just ridiculous and not even worth consideration.
Nicktendo86
Member
One thing they should do is cut the prices they charge for software, especially on the e shop. Its crazy that first party software are still up for £50 in the UK.
RobFox64tm
Member
As upsetting as all this news is for Nintendo fans like myself, a part of me is excited to see what Nintendo will do to try and fix things. They've never been in this dire of a situation before, and it's clear they can't keep going the way they have. All the bad choices they've made in the last decade are finally catching up to them, and they need this failure to push them in the right direction (or, at the very least, a DIFFERENT direction).
It makes more money quicker on the 3DS. X & Y are almost at 10 million units sold in just three months. For an equivalent revenue on mobile without microtransactions, if it was say $1, it'd have to sell 400 million.
Same. The fact that they funnelled an extra $135m into their R&D budget this year makes me really excited.
I think that selling handheld and console versions of games is a thing of the past, thanks to the expectation of having one piece of software work across multiple devices established by smartphone ecosystems.
I do think the hybrid idea is bad, though. A unified platform, however, would have a lot of potential if executed properly.
block tower
Member
a realistic solution for Nintendo in 2014:
-Nintendo Direct @ the end Feb. outlining the short term Wii U plan to consumers/fans
-start to pull current retail Wii U bundles
-announce price drop to $199
-announce and release a Wii U bundle W/O the gamepad and now with a 60GB Memory
-early adopters get select Nintendo Online Store games for free/discount
-re-release the Wii U at E3 2014 with new message and updated online features
-start new Wii U marketing; tv, internet, movie theaters, sporting events, etc
-new Wii U bundle that comes packed with Mario 3D World, and New Super Mario Bros
-release the rest of Wii U's 2014 games
-start money-hatting certain third party developers for Wii U exclusive games for 2015/2016
hopefully by the end of the 2014 fiscal year a major turn around happened. 2015 is business as usual; and traditional Nintendo can return while maintaining a new mindset to stay active by keeping Nintendo's Miiverse and Online service competitive and up to date.
-Nintendo Direct @ the end Feb. outlining the short term Wii U plan to consumers/fans
-start to pull current retail Wii U bundles
-announce price drop to $199
-announce and release a Wii U bundle W/O the gamepad and now with a 60GB Memory
-early adopters get select Nintendo Online Store games for free/discount
-re-release the Wii U at E3 2014 with new message and updated online features
-start new Wii U marketing; tv, internet, movie theaters, sporting events, etc
-new Wii U bundle that comes packed with Mario 3D World, and New Super Mario Bros
-release the rest of Wii U's 2014 games
-start money-hatting certain third party developers for Wii U exclusive games for 2015/2016
hopefully by the end of the 2014 fiscal year a major turn around happened. 2015 is business as usual; and traditional Nintendo can return while maintaining a new mindset to stay active by keeping Nintendo's Miiverse and Online service competitive and up to date.
That's also a reason why I abandoned the hybrid idea (yeah, I was a fan of that! XD) and I'm embracing the "portable + home supporting games of the handheld, with more raw power than the portable device for extra resolution / effects" concept, and / or wsippel's "Nintendo family" concept.
Heart and soul? dude. Sony made a great console but it's still just a box from a huge corporation that doesn't really care about you.
H_Prestige
Banned
The risk with this approach is that they essentially end up with what Sony has with the Vita and Vita TV. I don't think there is any desire for a Vita TV type of device in a world where ps4 and xb1 exist. So essentially it's no different than going handheld only.
He means they gave 110% in making the ps4 a device people would want and developers would want to develop for. Not half assed like the Wii U.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Isn't that just the Vita/ps3. I don't see how that idea would work
Spirit Icana
Member
Redesign the Game Pad or get rid of it. The controller runs counter to the claim that the standard 8 button controller is too scary for the mass market.
Get the system back to profitability upon sale.
Get serious about market expansion again and propose newer and better software with hardware that does a 'job', not offer a 'surprise.' Wii Fit U can't be made on iOS devices, but fitness games, like the pet games, are all over the place now. And Just Dance 2014 shows that Wii is still a viable platform for custumers of those active kinds of games here in North America.
A new hardware proposal is probably best left for a new console.
For Wii U, they aren't going to get third parties to help diversify their lineup with good titles. Nintendo will simply have to make the very best games the world has ever known, past and present and beat out their many (and still growing thanks to indies) competition. Their current software is weak (proven by sales). Their future software will have to be much better.
New IPs with no Nintendo branding attached is a must.
Lots of luck.
That's all, as far as solutions go.
Get the system back to profitability upon sale.
Get serious about market expansion again and propose newer and better software with hardware that does a 'job', not offer a 'surprise.' Wii Fit U can't be made on iOS devices, but fitness games, like the pet games, are all over the place now. And Just Dance 2014 shows that Wii is still a viable platform for custumers of those active kinds of games here in North America.
A new hardware proposal is probably best left for a new console.
For Wii U, they aren't going to get third parties to help diversify their lineup with good titles. Nintendo will simply have to make the very best games the world has ever known, past and present and beat out their many (and still growing thanks to indies) competition. Their current software is weak (proven by sales). Their future software will have to be much better.
New IPs with no Nintendo branding attached is a must.
Lots of luck.
That's all, as far as solutions go.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
A F2P Pokémon game on iOS would bring in a trully insane amount of money. That and it would addict kids to Pokémon all over again in countries where Nintendo's brand is very tarnished.
With the Pokémon company essentially being a separate wholly owned business it gives them the perfect cover ad well.
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