The person who runs the Pokémon games is firmly against extorting players with extra fees, though. That's why we'll never see paid DLC on main games.
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Nintendo shares plunge 6% by Monday close after trading as low as -18%
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The person who runs the Pokémon games is firmly against extorting players with extra fees, though. That's why we'll never see paid DLC on main games.
I know Iwata sucks and all, and I'm supposed to hate him, but I feel like he's already touched on a very important matter: their software prices. $39.99 for a handheld titles is a $10 hike from the DS era. That's insane for one game alone. I don't even like to pay $39.99 for a console or PC title.
A kid saving up his money for a single 3DS game will probably beat it in what, a few weeks? Then they will have to either save up more money, or beg their parents to get them another one. Meanwhile, a kid on a tablet only has to look at the hundreds of thousands of free, or ridiculously inexpensive games on the App Store.
I don't know how it would be profitable, or possible, but I really think that they should figure out a way to drastically lower price to anywhere from $15 to $25. People want to play their games, but in an era where hundreds of thousands of games are dirt cheap, fewer and fewer want to pay that premium price.
A kid saving up his money for a single 3DS game will probably beat it in what, a few weeks? Then they will have to either save up more money, or beg their parents to get them another one. Meanwhile, a kid on a tablet only has to look at the hundreds of thousands of free, or ridiculously inexpensive games on the App Store.
I don't know how it would be profitable, or possible, but I really think that they should figure out a way to drastically lower price to anywhere from $15 to $25. People want to play their games, but in an era where hundreds of thousands of games are dirt cheap, fewer and fewer want to pay that premium price.
shinra-bansho
Member
Realistic...? Okay....
The latter works better as a concept.
But there's still the underlying question: who is the home console in this scenario for other than the seemingly dwindling Nintendo faithful?
I think the general populace just don't want to buy a second box to stick under their TV just to play Nintendo's games (or Sony games or Microsoft games for that matter). They want one box that delivers the most value they can find, and while third parties avoid Nintendo like the plague I don't see how the successor system changes that situation.
They did it for the Wii, but that was a transient phenomenon. Lightning in a bottle. But at this stage, I'm skeptical whether even lopping off another $100 would dramatically change its long term sales trajectory.
Thank God they aren't caving to the stupid idea of Nintendo games on smartphones.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/20/nintendo-has-no-plans-for-mario-on-smartphones
http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/20/nintendo-has-no-plans-for-mario-on-smartphones
zomgbbqftw
Banned
What extra fees? F2P is free up front and they can charge money for extra fancy pokeballs/powerups or whatever or even chatge money for limited edition Pokémon. There are only IAP and the game itself is free but tilted to requiring some additional purchases to either complete or progress easily/quickly.
Nintendo shares would probably rise by 20-30% if they announced such a move. That's why analysts like Jeffries have a relatively high target price. We don't because out principal analyst believes Nintendo to be too inflexible and conservative to properly take advantage of the opprtunties on offer in the smartphone gaming market.
F2P like that on a kid's franchise is ridiculously immoral and again, is against the ethos of the makers of Pokémon. It won't happen.
I am one of the biggest fans of Pokémon in the world. I run arguably the most popular fansite for Pokémon. If they were to do that...it'd make me reconsider running it.
MadOdorMachine
No additional functions
The problem with them selling two entries of a series on handheld and console are that it might not be worth it anymore. If the console isn't selling, it might not be worth it because there aren't enough consumers to cover development costs. Plus they're already at risk of wearing out franchises.
As far as practicalities go, the technology is already there and is likely to be on par with the power of Wii U this year. As far as sequelitis goes, I see it the exact opposite. They'd be more able to produce a wider variety of games if they only had to focus on one architecture. Granted, they still need to sell through a certain amount of units for this to happen, but one thing is certain - Nintendo doesn't have the capability to support a console under their current policy.
Dictator93
Member
While arbitrarily splitting up a game into two purchases is somehow not unethical?
Boy Wander
Member
I think both are bad ideas, but the first isn't as terrible as the second. Abandon the Wii U and boom, you just instantly lost 3 million customers in lost good will. The first idea is also not good in my opinion as again, it would alienate those who already own a Wii U. The gamepad would become useless. Seriously, all they can do right now is to trim the fat off their costs, prepare properly for next gen and ride this one out.
You do realise that you're not meant to buy both versions, right?
Doug Heffernan
Member
shinra-bansho
Member
FranXico
Member
Because it's a one off payment.
If they went through with the idea that zomgbbqftw put forth, it'd tantalise kids and they'd spend way more just because of how it's presented.
digoutyoursoul
Member
As much I criticise them I don't like seeing this constant negativity around Nintendo, I hope they sort themselves out.
I'll reiterate my personal view of what Nintendo should do from another thread, in a multi-step approach:
1. Buy LeapFrog Enterprises, the makers of the LeapFrog and LeapPad educational devices. Their market cap is only ~$500M and are at a low point now that they're likely able to bounce back up out of.
2. Develop a ~PS4 level graphics horsepower tablet for a 2016-2017 release, with 5" and 11" varieties, running an in-house OS. That is about the same hardware schedule as what Sony's handhelds have been working on, so the 5" could definitely be break even in the $200-$250 MSRP at that point, with the 11" carrying about a $100 premium bump.
3. Use LeapFrog's educational marketing ties, Nintendo's family friendly branding, and a strategic partnership with Panasonic to offer the first major innovation in the smart classroom for Pre-K through grade school. The basics would be a short throw projector, the 11" tablet, and an advanced follow up to the Wiimote that combined will replace the chalkboard/marker board in class rooms with an interactive surface for less than $1000 per room. The expanded package would offer multiple tablets that would connect to a classroom hub, where the teacher could monitor student activity on the satellite tablets from his/her primary tablet as well as enable each tablet to cast it's display to the projector for presentations, demonstrations, etc.. This would be sold as a modular step where even a handful of tablets in a classroom would enable teachers a new level of group project learning tools.
4. On the home/personal user front the 5" would lead the way as a low cost hybrid device with HDMI out (using the same tech as the projector link up) and included HDMI dongle. A controller housing for the 5" would be offered with bluetooth link up and dual analogs, buttons, triggers, etc.. A second attachment would offer a clamshell attachment with second screen for DS and 3DS backwards compatibility. In the living room a dock with included optical drive (for GC, Wii, and Wii U BC) and USB for external HDD to provide expanded storage would be optional. In either configuration you can set the tablet down, sync a bluetooth controller based on the pro pad or a wiimote to the device, and play games as though it where a home console.
5. All Nintendo offerings will be available digitally, including an expansive virtual console lineup.
6. Leverage the Nintendo IPs out into a broader stretch of media, a la Pokemon, with Zelda and Mario animated shows rolled out but directly produced by Nintendo to ensure quality. I'd personally recommend Genndy Tartakovsky to head up a Legend of Zelda series and Hiromasa Yonebayashi (director of Arrietty) for Mario. Maybe bring Tom Warburton in to head up a Wonderful 101 series if they're feeling real ambitious.
7. Service the core gamer on a more consistent schedule and with a more earnest approach. Buy out Platinum and make them first party, have them take over the Metroid franchise and rotate releases of Metroid with more risky IPs (Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, etc.). Hire in a bunch of ex-Sony Liverpool and SEGA staff to assemble an all-star studio to bring back F-Zero as an every four years iterative franchise, offset in an even two years from Mario Kart releases which also joins the 4 year schedule. Take a step forward in the scope of the Mario franchise by offering an open world, free form Mario title that focuses on Mario's core platforming moveset from Mario 64 but set in an expansive and open to explore Mushroom Kingdom. Contract Hidetaka Miyazaki to collaborate with Aonuma on a new core Zelda experience with Souls inspired core mechanics and using Jean Giraud's artwork as inspiration for aesthetics. Bring Yasumi Matsuno in to lead a second team within Monolith.
8. Roll out a line of iOS/Android software that is market specific spinoffs. Pokemon would be a hybrid of traditional (but streamlined) Pokemon mechanics and player v. player arena battles, with a F2P business model, directly attacking the Puzzles and Dragons crowd. A Mario featured endless runner at $5 would be an instant cash infusion for the company. Tilt and finger swipe controls would apply well to a Kirby's Canvas Curse styled title. Animal Crossing and Mario Party would both market very well to social F2P spin off apps. Monetize this market to both build a strong cash pipeline to fund the company's other endeavors and to serve as an IP gateway drug into the Nintendo family.
9. Long term establish partnerships with media companies focused on similar demographics, most notably Disney, to offer them a controlled avenue to their customers. The crowning achievement of this would ideally be Mario and Mickey cross over titles with Mario, Zelda, etc. showing up in Disney theme parks and the like.
The real goal here would be to pivot their hardware business away from the gamer and towards the classroom and younger audience, but doing so with enough hardware muscle in-tact to meet the core gamer's needs and establish themselves as 1. the leaders in educational software and hardware 2. the platform of choice for families and pre-teens and 3. the ideal "second device" for any core gamer at a reasonable enough cost to get them in the door and buying software.
1. Buy LeapFrog Enterprises, the makers of the LeapFrog and LeapPad educational devices. Their market cap is only ~$500M and are at a low point now that they're likely able to bounce back up out of.
2. Develop a ~PS4 level graphics horsepower tablet for a 2016-2017 release, with 5" and 11" varieties, running an in-house OS. That is about the same hardware schedule as what Sony's handhelds have been working on, so the 5" could definitely be break even in the $200-$250 MSRP at that point, with the 11" carrying about a $100 premium bump.
3. Use LeapFrog's educational marketing ties, Nintendo's family friendly branding, and a strategic partnership with Panasonic to offer the first major innovation in the smart classroom for Pre-K through grade school. The basics would be a short throw projector, the 11" tablet, and an advanced follow up to the Wiimote that combined will replace the chalkboard/marker board in class rooms with an interactive surface for less than $1000 per room. The expanded package would offer multiple tablets that would connect to a classroom hub, where the teacher could monitor student activity on the satellite tablets from his/her primary tablet as well as enable each tablet to cast it's display to the projector for presentations, demonstrations, etc.. This would be sold as a modular step where even a handful of tablets in a classroom would enable teachers a new level of group project learning tools.
4. On the home/personal user front the 5" would lead the way as a low cost hybrid device with HDMI out (using the same tech as the projector link up) and included HDMI dongle. A controller housing for the 5" would be offered with bluetooth link up and dual analogs, buttons, triggers, etc.. A second attachment would offer a clamshell attachment with second screen for DS and 3DS backwards compatibility. In the living room a dock with included optical drive (for GC, Wii, and Wii U BC) and USB for external HDD to provide expanded storage would be optional. In either configuration you can set the tablet down, sync a bluetooth controller based on the pro pad or a wiimote to the device, and play games as though it where a home console.
5. All Nintendo offerings will be available digitally, including an expansive virtual console lineup.
6. Leverage the Nintendo IPs out into a broader stretch of media, a la Pokemon, with Zelda and Mario animated shows rolled out but directly produced by Nintendo to ensure quality. I'd personally recommend Genndy Tartakovsky to head up a Legend of Zelda series and Hiromasa Yonebayashi (director of Arrietty) for Mario. Maybe bring Tom Warburton in to head up a Wonderful 101 series if they're feeling real ambitious.
7. Service the core gamer on a more consistent schedule and with a more earnest approach. Buy out Platinum and make them first party, have them take over the Metroid franchise and rotate releases of Metroid with more risky IPs (Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, etc.). Hire in a bunch of ex-Sony Liverpool and SEGA staff to assemble an all-star studio to bring back F-Zero as an every four years iterative franchise, offset in an even two years from Mario Kart releases which also joins the 4 year schedule. Take a step forward in the scope of the Mario franchise by offering an open world, free form Mario title that focuses on Mario's core platforming moveset from Mario 64 but set in an expansive and open to explore Mushroom Kingdom. Contract Hidetaka Miyazaki to collaborate with Aonuma on a new core Zelda experience with Souls inspired core mechanics and using Jean Giraud's artwork as inspiration for aesthetics. Bring Yasumi Matsuno in to lead a second team within Monolith.
8. Roll out a line of iOS/Android software that is market specific spinoffs. Pokemon would be a hybrid of traditional (but streamlined) Pokemon mechanics and player v. player arena battles, with a F2P business model, directly attacking the Puzzles and Dragons crowd. A Mario featured endless runner at $5 would be an instant cash infusion for the company. Tilt and finger swipe controls would apply well to a Kirby's Canvas Curse styled title. Animal Crossing and Mario Party would both market very well to social F2P spin off apps. Monetize this market to both build a strong cash pipeline to fund the company's other endeavors and to serve as an IP gateway drug into the Nintendo family.
9. Long term establish partnerships with media companies focused on similar demographics, most notably Disney, to offer them a controlled avenue to their customers. The crowning achievement of this would ideally be Mario and Mickey cross over titles with Mario, Zelda, etc. showing up in Disney theme parks and the like.
The real goal here would be to pivot their hardware business away from the gamer and towards the classroom and younger audience, but doing so with enough hardware muscle in-tact to meet the core gamer's needs and establish themselves as 1. the leaders in educational software and hardware 2. the platform of choice for families and pre-teens and 3. the ideal "second device" for any core gamer at a reasonable enough cost to get them in the door and buying software.
Dictator93
Member
I require a more through explanation of why they have two game versions then and also some offhand commenting about how many people actually buy both.
Because to me, that just looks like arbitrary crap.
EmCeeGramr
Member
What if Nintendo F2P and/or on mobile was the only guaranteed way we'd get another Fire Emblem or Advance Wars?
Eh, I don't see how dropping the gamepad out of the bundle would alienate those who already have it. Sure, it would most likely mean any future titles would not have touchscreen support, but all existing games and Wii U's would still use it. Any new Wii U's would have to have a user interface overhaul and they would still have to offer the gamepad as a separate purchase in case those users decide to buy older titles. This would be how they trim the fat off their costs as the gamepad, to my understanding, is a large part of the current costs.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
In what way is it more or less moral than charging $40 for two SKUs?
An easy way to protect kids is to essentially unlock all of the options once $50-80 is spent, but keep limited edition Pokémon and powerups as IAPs.
Anyway, I am in agreement with you, I do not believe Nintendo would go for it. The management have proven time and again that they are not willing to go all in.
Pokémon is about communication, social communication. By providing separate versions with a different variety of Pokémon available within, it encourages people to find and trade with eachother.
My trade forums attract thousands each day, my trade chat hundreds (but that's because Java is annoying).
Trading is a huge aspect of the game.
See above. You're not meant to get both versions.
H_Prestige
Banned
Outside of the big risk of this product not taking off, they also seriously risk alienating their core fans. I know if I were still a fan of Nintendo games, I would be totally put off by this change of direction and I would stop buying their stuff.
Laieon
Member
shinra-bansho
Member
It's just an alternative monetization. There's nothing inherently immoral about IAPs. That's nonsense melodrama.
Kids want lots of things. If a parent lets their child have free reign over their credit card and go on a spending spree that's their prerogative.
And that's without noting that a practical solution exists in that in order to get everything the cumulative IAPs wouldn't excessively exceed the retail price of their current games anyway.
Dictator93
Member
I like the idea that to access content you have to socialize, but I do imagine many people buy both versions.
I mean, other games with scarce "real economies" still have socialization and trading even though everyone technically has the capable capacity to obtain the materials.
They could just make the mechanisms and statistics of getting certain pokemon different from cart to cart in a non-binary purchasable fashion, there by having that same socialization without the 2 products dilemma (other game's do it).
A F2P Pokemon doesn't need to restrict trading, it just needs to limit it's monetization to sensible pathways. Quantity of pokeballs, double experience tokens, things like that would be perfectly fine ways to implement a F2P Pokemon without restricting the core elements of the game.
Boy Wander
Member
I'm just not sure this is doable. How would they do this in terms of OS. Make it navigable with OR without gamepad. i.e. Big OS update? The system has only been out a year. Yes, it's doing terribly but I just don't see that this would help much.
Do you propose they do this purely to get the cost of the system down - i.e. do you believe that if the console sold for say 150, they'd sell a ton more?
masterlobo
Banned
I agree and I also think it's a good idea BUT...
People have the right to be skeptical after what happened with Rare.
Yeah, until the parents, govts, and do-gooders started noticing.
Real-money IAPs, especially those based on gambling mechanics, will not work. All of the huge money makers target adult audiences, because those are the people companies are allowed to fleece. And even then, govts do step in (see China and Japan's recent regulations).
Relaxed Muscle
Member
"Tharja died in combat, but you can pay 10$ to resurrect her - Yes/ No"
gamergirly
Member
Several million people already paid for a Wii U system based upon a controller that warranted a significant part of their purchase. I don't see how taking that out wouldn't alienate and/or extremely piss off early adopters. Also, are we trying to throw in MORE confusion than there is already for the system. Now you got a Gamepad. Now you dont? LOL If anything, they should redesign the Gamepad to drop $$$ off the cost of the system and release games that show the general public why they took that path in the first place in lieu of a PS4(or Xbone) type machine
Wishmaster92
Member
Why? The core games remain the same. The device would be comparable in power to the best handhelds could offer (in this case the Vita) time relative. It would have traditional and motion inputs both available.
The fact that it would also have a second primary market oriented towards the classroom and pre-K through grade school education wouldn't alter Nintendo's core offerings in any way. It would enhance it by introducing people to Nintendo's hardware and software from an early age, while further strengthening the family friendly appeal that helped the Wii take off.
As for it taking off, the biggest hurdle towards the smart classroom is the lack of control schools can have over the smart devices being used in the classroom. This approach gives schools and teachers control for a reasonably low cost, and overlaps to solve a wide array of A/V and materials problems schools already have to work with on a regular basis, as the projector + wiimote++ would effectively replace markers, marker boards, televisions, video collections, etc.. It would allow for an entirely integrated classroom and school via one brand of device.
f2p makes money off of whales, that's where the goldmine is. Get rid of that, what's the point?
If it's really just software, they should be able to do it with an OS update. Not saying it would be easy, and would take time, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to change the software to be used without a touchscreen.
But yes, this would purely be cutting the costs so they wouldn't be losing money on the system anymore. I doubt it would sell much more, at least, not until they get more games out. Then they don't have to worry about going into the red with each one sold and could be making a little bit on them.
Did people really buy it for the gamepad though or did they actually buy it for the Nintendo games?
How do you propose they redesign the Gamepad to be cheaper?
A new product with an old IP done in such a way might as well be a new IP, for it will not reach the bar of previous games.
The full game of Pokemon is only for one game. The two versions are merely to give camaraderie to online trading for very few Pokemon.
The IAPs suggested above would give competitive advantages, so it would turn into a pay to win game esp. given the online aspect. Not only is that very anti-consumer, it also is a tactic to draw more money out of unsuspecting customers. Highly scummy.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
When I see this, all I see is that they aren't willing to take the necessary steps to change. For a company stuck on their own little japanese-centered world, they need to take drastic changes on their model. And that dosn't mean Mario on mobiles, but reading that basically it dosn't seems like they aren't departing from his current path, which is leading to a big crash.
Indeed. This furthers my theory that Nintendo's new business structure is to do with pricing of the system/games, inclusion of rentals etc. rather than ditching everything and going smartphone.
It would still be horrifically immoral, and thankfully, is against the ideals put forth by the director of the franchise.
shinra-bansho
Member
I'm aware of criticism leveled against some forms of IAP, I just don't think that the mechanism is inherently "immoral," (or apparently "anti-consumer" as well now) and that a system couldn't be designed that wasn't exploitative.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Ok, replace "heart and soul" with "a modicum of fucking effort" if that makes you feel better. My point is that Sony tried to make something that people would want to exchange money for. And they accomplished it.
There's a difference between willing to change and willing to throw your entire company's history down the pan, ruin the pull of all your franchises and kill the company.
There are clear changes coming, big ones. However, being unwilling to drop everything and go to smartphone is not evidence of them not taking the steps to change.
Meccanical
Member
Why would anyone design a system that wasn't exploitative?
I've got 1000s hours in these series.
Then you give thanks for the series up to date and replay your current cartridges until the end of days... never settle for the lesser evil. Never.
I would sign up. There are certain genres that translate to mobile quite well, SRPGs and turn based RPGs being on that short list.
Pokemon would be amazing too. Mario would be a disaster.
Scrap the WiiU. Come out with another console that's backwards compatible and at least as powerful if not more than PS4/Xbone. Give a credit to existing WiiU buyers (there are frankly not that many anyways) to upgrade to the new console.
It's what Apple did when it first launched the iPhone. Obviously, it didn't hurt it any.
It's what Apple did when it first launched the iPhone. Obviously, it didn't hurt it any.
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