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Anaylsis: Attack on Iranian nuclear sites could kill tens of thousands of civilians

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How Many Civilians Would Be Killed in an Attack on Iran’s Nuclear Sites? No one in Iran is — and few in the West are — talking about the potential death toll, but it could rival the catastrophes of Bhopal and Chernobyl.

For Iranians these days, life under economic sanctions is a crescendo of hardships. With the Iranian currency at an all-time low against the dollar, shortages of essential medicines and quadrupling prices of basic goods like shampoo and bread, a sense of crisis pervades daily life. Now Iranians are worrying about one more thing: imminent death from an American or Israeli military strike.

With talk of an attack growing more feverish by the day, the mood in Iran is unsettled as never before. In their fear and worry, Iranians say they feel alone, stuck between a defiant government that clings to its nuclear ambitions and a world so unattuned to their suffering that the fatal consequences of a strike on the Iranian people has so far been totally absent from the debate. “We are close to reliving the days of the Iran-Iraq war, soon we will have to wait in line for everyday goods,” says a 60-year-old, middle-class matron from Tehran. “Things are getting worse by the day,” says a 57-year-old Iranian academic preparing to emigrate to North America. “It is better to get out now while it’s still possible.”

While Iranians are increasingly fretful of an imminent attack, they remain broadly unaware of just how devastating the human impact could be. Even a conservative strike on a handful of Iran’s nuclear facilities, a recent report predicts, could kill or injure 5,000 to 80,000 people. The Ayatollah’s Nuclear Gamble, a report written by an Iranian-American scientist with expertise in industrial nuclear-waste management, notes that a number of Iran’s sites are located directly atop or near major civilian centers. One key site that would almost certainly be targeted in a bombing campaign, the uranium-conversion facility at Isfahan, houses 371 metric tons of uranium hexafluoride and is located on the city’s doorstep; toxic plumes released from a strike would reach the city center within an hour, killing as many as 70,000 and exposing over 300,000 to radioactive fallout. These plumes would “destroy their lungs, blind them, severely burn their skin and damage other tissues and vital organs.” The report’s predictions for long-term toxicity and fatalities are equally stark. “The numbers are alarming,” says Khosrow Semnani, the report’s author, “we’re talking about a catastrophe in the same class as Bhopal and Chernobyl.”

Beyond those initially killed in a potential strike, the Iranian government’s lack of readiness for handling wide-scale radiation exposure could exponentially raise the death toll, Semnani says. His study, published by the University of Utah’s Hinckley Institute of Politics and the nongovernmental organization Omid for Iran, outlines Iran’s poor record of emergency response and notes that its civilian casualties from natural disasters like earthquakes have been far greater than those suffered during similar disasters in better prepared countries like Turkey. With virtually no clinical capacity or medical infrastructure to deal with wide-scale radioactive fallout, or early warning systems in place to limit exposure, Iran would be swiftly overwhelmed by the aftermath of a strike. The government’s woeful unpreparedness remains unknown to most Iranians. “This issue is a redline, the [Iranian] media can’t go near it,” says Jamshid Barzegar, a senior analyst at BBC Persian. “To talk about this would be considered a weakening of people’s attitudes. The government only speaks of tactics and resistance, how unhurt Iran will be by an attack.”

But if the aftermath of a war remains murky to most Iranians, their anticipation of its inevitability is growing. The commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards, Mohammad Ali Jafari, told Iranians last week that “we must all prepare for the upcoming war.” His warning, the bluntest yet by a senior official, that Iran and Israel would enter a “physical conflict,” has raised expectations of an attack among Iranians, who are typically accustomed to dismissing such talk. When reformist MP Mohammed Reza Tabesh criticized Jafari’s remarks in parliament, the hard-line majority shouted him down with cries of “Allahu Akbar.” “When people see their top military commander and officials speaking of the inevitability of war, the belief sinks in,” says Barzegar.

Whether Iranian officials actually think Israel is closer to launching an attack than it has been in the past, or their readiness rhetoric is meant to convey their own unflappability, the Iranian public is left with greater uneasiness and less real information than ever. Sterile media speculation in Israel and the U.S. ignores the question of civilian casualties, portraying an attack on Iran as a tidy pinpoint strike like those Israel has carried out against Iraq and Syria. Iran, for its part, claims the number of casualties it might sustain will be tolerable. “Hawks on both sides, Israel and the United States, and Iran, want to underplay the level of casualties,” says Ali Ansari, an Iran expert at Scotland’s University of St. Andrews. “But both sides are wildly wrong, there will be quite devastating consequences. It will be a mess".

Source
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markot

Banned
Arent most of them deep underground?

And arent most of them not in built up areas?

Not that I am for an attack, but I dont think itll be anything like a chernobyl.
 
Arent most of them deep underground?

And arent most of them not in built up areas?

Not that I am for an attack, but I dont think itll be anything like a chernobyl.

Maybe you should read the article.

edit: and avoid the comments section. what. the. fuck. these comments.
 

markot

Banned
Well, its all guesswork.

I mean '5,000 - 80,000' is kinda like... a pretty big ballpark. They also wouldnt need to strike all the 'parts' of the puzzle to damage the nuclear program severly.
 
Arent most of them deep underground?

And arent most of them not in built up areas?

Not that I am for an attack, but I dont think itll be anything like a chernobyl.

from the OP:"notes that a number of Iran’s sites are located directly atop or near major civilian centers."

Its not like the mole people get sent in to burrow through the facility and then place charges for a controlled demolition.
 

V_Arnold

Member
So, why is it a problem that Iran MIGHT have the capability to have nuclear weaponry?
I do not see all the currently nuclear-strike capable countries dismantling their own stuff*, so what is the big fuss? What is the problem with one more group joining the fray? Especially with that kind of pressure around them.

Also: if they are, as they are saying, developing nuclear technology for non-war reasons, who gives the right to any other country to simply say "that might not be true, invade them fast?" When was this meeting when it was decided that a group can be the bully of the world?

*Which is something that ALL countries should do as long as they have an ounce of reason left in their brains, but hey, one can dream :(
 

markot

Banned
from the OP:"notes that a number of Iran’s sites are located directly atop or near major civilian centers."

Its not like the mole people get sent in to burrow through the facility and then place charges for a controlled demolition.
Well, they do have bunker buster bombs that can go pretty deep before they kablew.
 

Machine

Member
If Iran developed nuclear capabilities, would they only use it as a deterrent? If they bombed Israel, wouldn't the civilian casualties be substantially greater? At what point does it make sense to be proactive instead of reactive?
 

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
...Wait why is this happening again? And what happens if this cloud of death spews over into another neighboring country let alone all over Iran? I really hope nothing happens this is lose , lose, lose if it does.
 

Fularu

Banned
If Iran developed nuclear capabilities, would they only use it as a deterrent? If they bombed Israel, wouldn't the civilian casualties be substantially greater? At what point does it make sense to be proactive instead of reactive?

When was the last time Iran attacked anyone?

When was the last time Israel bombeb highly populated civilian zones?

(hint, you can easily find one of the answers)
 
So, why is it a problem that Iran MIGHT have the capability to have nuclear weaponry?
I do not see all the currently nuclear-strike capable countries dismantling their own stuff*, so what is the big fuss? What is the problem with one more group joining the fray? Especially with that kind of pressure around them.

Also: if they are, as they are saying, developing nuclear technology for non-war reasons, who gives the right to any other country to simply say "that might not be true, invade them fast?" When was this meeting when it was decided that a group can be the bully of the world?

*Which is something that ALL countries should do as long as they have an ounce of reason left in their brains, but hey, one can dream :(

Legitimization through the barrel of a gun, authority through force. Factions in Iran use the rhetoric "wiped Israel off the map." Could they without destroying themselves? Doubtful. Even if these claims are not true they further destabilize an already unbalanced set of relations in the region. I doubt there is a completely "right" course of action at this point. Iran manufacturing nukes becomes another headache for IAEA monitoring. The general consensus is that the World will be better off if three major powers in Iran do not have access to these types of devices.

Well, they do have bunker buster bombs that can go pretty deep before they kablew.
An Earthquake is a pressure wave through the ground. An underground explosion will create a cavity that the above strata will collapse into. A strike would be associated with a widespread attack on the Iranian infrastructure (taking out commnications, power, etc.), so consider how emergency services can be disrupted and how a panic ensues, to a degree, among the population.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
If Iran developed nuclear capabilities, would they only use it as a deterrent? If they bombed Israel, wouldn't the civilian casualties be substantially greater? At what point does it make sense to be proactive instead of reactive?

Iran is constantly threatened by military action from Israel and the US, they're under heavy economic sanctions, and they have state sponsored assassinations occurring in their borders. Of course they want nukes for security.
 
And the nukes won't do anything to solve the crippling economic sanctions they are laboring under.

Joining the rest of the free world would be a better solution.
 

Newline

Member
The comments under that article freak me out so much. I never hear anything like that in person, where do these creeps hide?
 
If Iran developed nuclear capabilities, would they only use it as a deterrent? If they bombed Israel, wouldn't the civilian casualties be substantially greater? At what point does it make sense to be proactive instead of reactive?


They would have to be the biggest morons on the planet to actually deploy a nuclear weapon against somebody in anger. Even a country like North Korea doesn't go around dropping nukes in their region, and Iran is a far more stable and rationally operated society than NK.
 

Ikael

Member
Surprise, surprise, war, no matter how much "precise" and "surgeon - like" it is, kills civilians, period. And this war in particular could be far more disastrous than any kind of nuclearized Iran scenario. And no, if batshit insane North Korea hasn't released any nuke yet, the incredibly conservative (in all the sense of thw word) Iranian goverment won't, either.
 

Zaphod

Member
Iran knows Israel has nuclear weapons so I doubt they would use it on them offensively. The idea they would make a small suitcase bomb seems unlikely as well. That would take quite a bit of engineering to shrink all the components down to a one man portable device.
 
Iran knows Israel has nuclear weapons so I doubt they would use it on them offensively. The idea they would make a small suitcase bomb seems unlikely as well. That would take quite a bit of engineering to shrink all the components down to a one man portable device.

And analysis performed in the aftermath of the explosion will tell them where the fissionable material was enriched. Israel isn't going to believe that Iran "lost" one of their bombs and it just coincidentally ended up detonating in Israel, they're going to retaliate.
 
And the nukes won't do anything to solve the crippling economic sanctions they are laboring under.

Joining the rest of the free world would be a better solution.

isn't that what they are doing? joining the rest of the free world by trying to acquire nuclear weapons and nuclear power?

I understand the argument of buying the necessary components from other countries instead of making your own, but I don't see the point in doing that if you're country is capable of producing the components needed.
 

Ikael

Member
Can't trust Iran, so I think that we do have a cause to try and limit them. Try as they might.

Which is why there are already many CIA and Mossad operatives in Iran sabotaging their nuclear program without needing to carbonize thousands of civilans in the process. As one ex CIA operative once said "we fight small dirty wars so they don't become big". There many more tools at the disposal of the US other than a direct military actions, and I do believe that they are archieving their goal: the Iranian regime is unstable with a fractured leadership that will blow up in a thousand pieces once the current Ayatollah dies, and the nuclear program is viewed each time with more distrust by the popullation due to economic sanctions (or "why the hell do we got money for this shit and not for retirement and social services?").

A direct war and a clear foreign menace would, however, re - ignite nationalism and rally the Iranian people around their leaders, not to mention that it would speed up their nuclear program as well, trying desperately to acquire a nuclear "anti - american invasion insurance policy". All of this while the Ormuz straight closes, the oil prices skyrocket in the middle of an economic depression, and the Shias VS Sunny conflict looses its balance in the ME.

So no, trying to "limit" Iran with a war is the worst idea ever.
 

Zaphod

Member
And analysis performed in the aftermath of the explosion will tell them where the fissionable material was enriched. Israel isn't going to believe that Iran "lost" one of their bombs and it just coincidentally ended up detonating in Israel, they're going to retaliate.

Very true too. It's pretty obvious that Iran is looking for a deterrent. I'm not sure it's worth the cost they are paying but I just can't see any situation where Iran would think that they would be able to use them offensively.
 
This shouldn't be a surprise.

Also, I like how Iran's UN Assembly speech was about furthering the human race while Bibi talked about how the world should be aggressive against Iran.
 
isn't that what they are doing? joining the rest of the free world by trying to acquire nuclear weapons and nuclear power?

I understand the argument of buying the necessary components from other countries instead of making your own, but I don't see the point in doing that if you're country is capable of producing the components needed.

Certainly - look at countries like Australia, most of Europe,South Africa, etc. They joined the rest of the world precisely by having a bunch of nukes.

Oh wait. They did it by mostly playing ball with the world powers. Iran doesn't have the get out of jail free card that countries like India & Pakistan (at the time they developed nukes anyway) had, precisely because they've never been interested in playing ball. By being antagonistic, they've placed themselves in their present quagmire.

After all, if Iran was such a trustworthy state, then why are almost all of their neighbors terrified of them having nukes? Why did they have to employ brutal measures to shut down the protests of their own citizens in the Green Revolution?


This shouldn't be a surprise.

Also, I like how Iran's UN Assembly speech was about furthering the human race while Bibi talked about how the world should be aggressive against Iran.

He's on his way out, and I'm sure the clerics are tired of him spouting lines like this one:

"The dignity, integrity and rights of the American and European people are being played with by a small but deceitful number of people called Zionists. Although they are a minuscule minority, they have been dominating an important portion of the financial and monetary centers as well as the political decision-making centers of some European countries and the U.S. in a deceitful, complex and furtive manner."
 

yarden24

Member
When was the last time Iran attacked anyone?

When was the last time Israel bombeb highly populated civilian zones?

(hint, you can easily find one of the answers)

Iran has been sending troops to help the Syrian regime quell the civilian uprising, aiding the slaughter of thousand's , not to mention funding hizballah and hamas, trying to paint Iran as some kind of country that is not aggressive is odd.

Iran is constantly threatened by military action from Israel and the US, they're under heavy economic sanctions, and they have state sponsored assassinations occurring in their borders. Of course they want nukes for security.

every single one of the reasons you gave happened as a result of them trying to produce nuclear weapons,not the other way around

If Iran developed nuclear capabilities, would they only use it as a deterrent? If they bombed Israel, wouldn't the civilian casualties be substantially greater? At what point does it make sense to be proactive instead of reactive?

I very much doubt they would use them to bomb anyone, but rather as a deterrent from taking any serious actions against them if they want to be more aggressive int he region, problem is one Iran gets nukes, Saudi, turkey and Iraq are next, and who knows whom after that, a nuclear armed middle east is the last thing anyone should want
 
Well, I guess it has to be seen in context, right? Any strike would be with the aim of stopping Iran gaining nuclear weapons - which also carry a pretty significant death toll.
 
If Iran developed nuclear capabilities, would they only use it as a deterrent? If they bombed Israel, wouldn't the civilian casualties be substantially greater? At what point does it make sense to be proactive instead of reactive?

There is no proof they are even attempting to make nuclear weapons. US intel has said they're not, Israeli defense minister said they aren't, IAEA only said they are making high payload weapons (which, a: isn't their call to even make and b: doesn't even mention specifically any nuclear weapon capabilities), and their top leaders have said nuclear weapons are a sin, and they've been saying this for over a decade.

So IF they make it, then it would likely only be used as a deterrent.

Once again, that's a big IF.
 

Dyno

Member
Well, its all guesswork.

I mean '5,000 - 80,000' is kinda like... a pretty big ballpark. They also wouldnt need to strike all the 'parts' of the puzzle to damage the nuclear program severly.

Even 5,000 is a horrific, 911-level event. The reason why it's a 'pretty big ballpark' is because radioactive gas is not all cut and dry. Winds play a big park, evacutation procedures place a big part.

Those American military euphemisms like 'surgical strike' will not in any way apply.

Well, they do have bunker buster bombs that can go pretty deep before they kablew.

You should just come out and say what you think. Your statements seem like a lame attempt to play down the severity of the strike.
 
He's on his way out, and I'm sure the clerics are tired of him spouting lines like this one:

"The dignity, integrity and rights of the American and European people are being played with by a small but deceitful number of people called Zionists. Although they are a minuscule minority, they have been dominating an important portion of the financial and monetary centers as well as the political decision-making centers of some European countries and the U.S. in a deceitful, complex and furtive manner."

There are a lot of "Zionists" (assuming Zionists means someone who aids Israel and AIPAC) that own a large percentage of the money. Of course not all Zionists are Jews. I'm sure he also believes in the Rothschilds etc etc... you get the picture.

Still even if his speech is 1 of 8 that was about this, it's one that has never been echoed by anyone from the west. Not that I recall or was publicized by the western media. Maybe you can help me out.

EDIT: Heck, take out the religious mumbo jumbo, and you still get the same result. A true democracy worldwide, not run by money or global power, progression in science and humanitarian rights to better the world.
 

nib95

Banned
Israel has proven time and time again they have no qualms killing civilians directly or indirectly.

Which is why Iran wants Nukes. Lets be honest here, Iran has not attacked another country in like 100 years. Whereas Israel and the US have perhaps the most feature rich resume of all the nations in the world when it comes to recent wars etc. Hell, the US was responsible for the coup that removed a secular democratic government from Iran and instilled the Shah, and for what? Oil!

Whether they get nukes now or later, it is pretty much essential to their future survival and imo well worth the risk. Otherwise they are essentially a sitting target. The truth is, there'd likely be pushes to attack Iran whether they had nukes or not. But if you were Iran, you would not want to wait around idly knowing you could be the next Palestine, Lebanon or Iraq. They want that ultimate deterrent, and it's perfectly understandable why.
 
imo one american life is worth 5000 iranians so they shud do it
Your valuation scheme equates to predjudice and ignorance. What upsets me is that you were taught to think this, and that you are not alone. Consider there are equally ignorant and biased individuals that espouse the reversal of your disgusting statement.

We are all human. Some were just not brought up to appreciate diversity out of both an inability to recognize one's own faults (i.e. your peers and gaurdians) and blaming the other (people not like you).
 

web01

Member
Israel has proven time and time again they have no qualms killing civilians directly or indirectly.

Iran doesn't exactly have any problems about hanging their own people when they break their ridiculous laws upheld by a sick religious regime.
Frankly I hope Irans nuclear program is bombed into the ground.
 

Jenov

Member
Opening up another conflict with a country isn't ideal, but what's the alternative? Allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons and destabilize the region with an arms race? Make their theocratic regime that much more powerful and resistant to change? We're talking about the country that's literally cutting their people off from the rest of world by building it's own internet. I don't think sitting by and allowing the proliferation of more nukes, especially in the middle east, is a good idea.
 

Kettch

Member
Such a misleading thread title. I'm sure almost half of those deaths would be military-aged males, AKA militants.
 
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