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Are DVI users screwed next gen?
- Thread starter koam
- Start date
AtomicShroom
Member
Video signal for DVI and HDMI is identical. The only difference is that HDMI also carries sound. Converters are small and inexpensive.
Error Macro
Member
dvi support? yes, probably.
if your dvi port supports hdcp you are good to go with the upcoming hd movie formats as well.
if not, there's always component
if your dvi port supports hdcp you are good to go with the upcoming hd movie formats as well.
if not, there's always component
Pedigree Chum
Banned
DVI is what's on PC LCD monitors right?
Also WTF is VGA ports and what do they have to do with DVI/HDMI?
Also WTF is VGA ports and what do they have to do with DVI/HDMI?
Well, technically DVI and HDMI aren't quite the same, because you also have HDCP on top of the DVI connection. Electrically they are identical, but with DVI you may or may not have HDCP support; with HDMI, HDCP support is guaranteed (and it carries audio info, as already mentioned).
Nathan
Nathan
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
We don't know yet if 360 supports any digital format. Only VGA has been confirmed.
Marty Chinn
Member
Other than HDCP, and shape of the plug, I don't get why one would prefer one over the other. Outputting audio through the HDMI seems sort of useless to me since I'm going to be connecting any audio directly to my receiver and most likely using coax or optical. Thus I don't mind having just a DVI port since I can easily convert HDMI to DVI.
loffer, your tv if its anything reasonable will have a scaler that will do a good job.
all fixed panels need a scaler because they are say 1024x1024 and receive signals from everything from 480i to 1920x1080i (or 1440x1080i) and everything in between. ergo they have to scale it to fit the 1024 res.
I have an Super Fine Pitch Sony and it shows most resolutions very nicely. 576i, 576p, 720p and 1080i. (I live in Australia thus the 576 lines)
all fixed panels need a scaler because they are say 1024x1024 and receive signals from everything from 480i to 1920x1080i (or 1440x1080i) and everything in between. ergo they have to scale it to fit the 1024 res.
I have an Super Fine Pitch Sony and it shows most resolutions very nicely. 576i, 576p, 720p and 1080i. (I live in Australia thus the 576 lines)
The conversion of HDMI -> DVI is not always flawless. Many of the recent upscaling HDMI DVD players exhibit noticeable color issues when connected to a DVI display. I believe more so at the fault of the DVD players than the display devices, but that just means any of us who have sets with only DVI have to hope the PS3 (or perhaps a HDMI switching receiver) are able to handle the conversion properly.
I dont want to go into all the technical details of the cause. Anyone interested can find discussions about it by searching the AVS forum.
I dont want to go into all the technical details of the cause. Anyone interested can find discussions about it by searching the AVS forum.
I don't understand much why carrying sound with the image over a single physical connection is a good thing. I mean most of the peeps that will have money for expensive HDTV sets will certainly also get a sound system together with that.
So now do I have to buy an adapter plus separate cables if I want to hook-up my console to my TV and Audio system?
So now do I have to buy an adapter plus separate cables if I want to hook-up my console to my TV and Audio system?
You wont be "screwed" for hi-def gaming... just grab an appropriate adapter.koam said:
With PS3 if you don't have HDCP compliant inputs on your TV you *might* be screwed in regard to outputting bluray movies at full HD resolutions, but that has not yet been announced.
DVI - HDMi cables solve that issue.
Component can carry 480i. 480p. 720p, 1080i and weirdo asian resolutions like 576.
X360 will have component and VGA. AFIK, it's perfectly feasible to output a digital signal from that multi-out and so an HDMI cable/device seems like a given, esp. after Sony's launch announcements.
Having digital audio on HDMI is HUGE because a) it makes swapping cables much easier. b) It lets you use TV audio when you dont' want to fuck around with your surround system and c) it'll let you attach your setup to an HDMI switcher/receiver when they're widely available. At which point you'll be all, thank fuck I have HDMI.
HDCP will likely only affect movies. There's no reason to apply it to game video and HDCP has some compatibility issues with some TVs, so the default should be "off" on anything that's not a movie or music disc.
Also, on non-native TVs (1080x768 for example) you'll occasionally run into incompatibility. I had an LG HD DVD player (upscan) that would NOT talk to the TV. A call to customer service got me a "cheat" keypress to enable it. Basically, all three companies have an awful lot to think about.
HD is a minefield.
Also, all the research in the world doesn't help you when they keep moving the fucking goal line. You buy a 20,000 car, but nobody expects you to know the wiring schematics or how the catalytic converter works. Why should you have to be an electrical engineer to buy a TV?
Component can carry 480i. 480p. 720p, 1080i and weirdo asian resolutions like 576.
X360 will have component and VGA. AFIK, it's perfectly feasible to output a digital signal from that multi-out and so an HDMI cable/device seems like a given, esp. after Sony's launch announcements.
Having digital audio on HDMI is HUGE because a) it makes swapping cables much easier. b) It lets you use TV audio when you dont' want to fuck around with your surround system and c) it'll let you attach your setup to an HDMI switcher/receiver when they're widely available. At which point you'll be all, thank fuck I have HDMI.
HDCP will likely only affect movies. There's no reason to apply it to game video and HDCP has some compatibility issues with some TVs, so the default should be "off" on anything that's not a movie or music disc.
Also, on non-native TVs (1080x768 for example) you'll occasionally run into incompatibility. I had an LG HD DVD player (upscan) that would NOT talk to the TV. A call to customer service got me a "cheat" keypress to enable it. Basically, all three companies have an awful lot to think about.
HD is a minefield.
Also, all the research in the world doesn't help you when they keep moving the fucking goal line. You buy a 20,000 car, but nobody expects you to know the wiring schematics or how the catalytic converter works. Why should you have to be an electrical engineer to buy a TV?
SoVos20 said:
This is misinformation. You can definitely use Blu-ray with composite, but you will not see the full resolution of the picture.
Sony can't lock out a feature because most people won't have the capability to make use of it.
DVI/HDMI isn't a pre-requisite for Hi-def btw. It just has higher bandwidth to scale over 1080i and whatever standards NTSC decides to drop on us later down the pipeline.
Nos_G said:
I don't think this is right. IIRC, component and VGA connectors can actually carry pictures at a much higher resolution than 1080p - you just have to deal with the obvious problem of analog signal loss (thus, you have to drop a ton on cables). HDMI / DVI, being digital, don't have this problem with signal loss, but they are more bandwidth-constrained.
The only reason you are going to have to use DVI w/HDCP / HDMI for HD movies is because the studios want a very strong copyright protection on HD content, not for any technical reason.
Marty Chinn
Member
PG2G said:
That doesn't make sense. How do you save the number of cables you are using? If i'm not mistaken, most TVs with HDMI input usually only have one input correct? So how does it differ if you have one cable going to the TV and then one cable going from the TV out to the receiver, vs having one cable going to the TV and one cable going directly to the receiver? You still use the same number of cables.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
What would it be good for if it's primary use is 1080p movies? I assume it provides better picture quality due to digital out?
there are already HDCP-DVI converters, that would let you use a HDCP device on a non-HDCP display.
Having said that, it is fucking stupid that the standards were not locked down. I bought a 2k LCD TV that is not HDCP, and I might not be able to use it for SkyHD or bluray. Thats crazy. There must be more HD displays out there without HDCP than those with.
Never mind trying to stamp out piracy, you'll get nowhere without displays to watch stuff on. In fact, you might drive piracy, as people will download high quality .ts versions from TV to watch if they can't watch legit versions that they would have paid for.
Having said that, it is fucking stupid that the standards were not locked down. I bought a 2k LCD TV that is not HDCP, and I might not be able to use it for SkyHD or bluray. Thats crazy. There must be more HD displays out there without HDCP than those with.
Never mind trying to stamp out piracy, you'll get nowhere without displays to watch stuff on. In fact, you might drive piracy, as people will download high quality .ts versions from TV to watch if they can't watch legit versions that they would have paid for.
SoVos20 said:
Only if you buy your "converter" from Monster Cables. DVI and HDMI are pin-for-pin identical (meaning the signal is not being touched). The only difference is that HDMI includes the audio channels, and that the DVI link requires HDCP. The DVI/HDMI converter is the functional equivalent to the PS/2<->serial mouse adapters that everyone had in the 90's.
CorruptionDee
Member
Listen I know quite a bit about DVI, HDMI, and video in general. I also know that the Monster versions of the aforementioned cables are NOT worth the $100 they cost to obtain. If you want nice HDMI or DVI cables, look no further than Ebay. I'm not a viral marketer for Ebay or any of its sellers, but there's one guy named Mashy 76 on Ebay who sells all types of DVI and HDMI cables in all configurations, including DVI to HDMI, and the converter that lets you use a HDMI cable on a DVI equipped set, and vice versa. Best of all, he sells his cables and converters for about $10 shipped.
Marty Chinn
Member
One is a digital signal, the other is analog. DVI should be better than standard VGA. Whether you can see it or not is a different story.
This is such crap, and the fanboys want to say it's good. HDMI is freaking DRM BS, HDCP is there to stop you from copying in HD, so the reality is that if you get a PS3, and have only one HDMI/DVI input, where you likely have a cable box/sat box... then you are screwed out of watching the movies in HD. Thanks alot Hollywood.
Oh, there there's the fact that HDMI is a new format, so that most HDTV's bought before this year don't support it. Makes me feel happy that my ~10k HDTV , last years best RPHDTV from SONY, may not work for their HD movies... Thanks alot Sony.
Someone needs to come in and slap these idiots.
And btw, the best HD channels on Digital Cable look KILLER on this set, and identical as far as I can see in either component or DVI into this TV. 70" Grand Wega btw.
Oh, there there's the fact that HDMI is a new format, so that most HDTV's bought before this year don't support it. Makes me feel happy that my ~10k HDTV , last years best RPHDTV from SONY, may not work for their HD movies... Thanks alot Sony.
Someone needs to come in and slap these idiots.
And btw, the best HD channels on Digital Cable look KILLER on this set, and identical as far as I can see in either component or DVI into this TV. 70" Grand Wega btw.